Somewhere that I feel everybody should visit

Worked for a year in Israel a long time ago Memorial day is as you can guess but the day after is Independence Day and party time .

I am grateful for the reminder.
I want to be reminded about the Holocaust as long as I live.

Claret Till I Die wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:17 am

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Somewhere that I feel everybody should visit

Indeed. Me and my now wife went to Krakow for our first weekend away together. Visiting Auschwitz didn't really feel like a place to go under the circumstances. As soon as we got back on the train to the airport we regretted not going while we had the opportunity so went back later in the year.

It's really sad that we're starting to lose first-hand testimonies about the atrocities as Holocaust survivors pass away. Something that everyone should know about from a young age so it can never be repeated again.

Claret Till I Die wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:17 am

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Somewhere that I feel everybody should visit

I am going to Krakow next month and a visit to Auschwitz is top of my things to see list.

Going to visit Holocaust memorials is essential, but so is learning about how the Nazis changed a country in ten years to the stage where they could get away with it

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:51 am

I am going to Krakow next month and a visit to Auschwitz is top of my things to see list.

Both of the Auschwitz - Birkenau sites there are a must.
I think they're compulsory school trips for some places.

Can I also recommend the Wieliczka Salt Mine down the road, a UNESCO heritage site and well worth a visit whilst you're there.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:55 am

Going to visit Holocaust memorials is essential, but so is learning about how the Nazis changed a country in ten years to the stage where they could get away with it

My Monday 9am lecture during 3rd yr at uni was on this. Sobering does not come close but you’re right, it’s a vital lesson that should never be allowed to fade from collective consciousness.

The current run of RIH podcasts on the rise of Nazism is good on this.

BuryClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:43 am

It's really sad that we're starting to lose first-hand testimonies about the atrocities as Holocaust survivors pass away. Something that everyone should know about from a young age so it can never be repeated again.

Yes as time passes naturally those who lived through these atrocities will lessen, however what technology allows them to do is leave their accounts for future generations especially younger generations in schools to know what occurred during these dreadful years.

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:06 am

My Monday 9am lecture during 3rd yr at uni was on this. Sobering does not come close but you’re right, it’s a vital lesson that should never be allowed to fade from collective consciousness.

The current run of RIH podcasts on the rise of Nazism is good on this.

I'm about two months behind with my RIH podcasts - just can't seem to keep up, and I'm miles behind in my "We have ways" one as well

Really like Tom and Dominic on RIH though, brilliant

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:08 am

I'm about two months behind with my RIH podcasts - just can't seem to keep up, and I'm miles behind in my "We have ways" one as well

Really like Tom and Dominic on RIH though, brilliant

There were a couple of other episodes on the Holocaust as well. The WC series included an episode on Denmark’s experience during the Holocaust, where they were able to rescue nearly all of their Jewish population by smuggling them to Sweden, and a run on Rudolf Vrbna, the first Jewish prisoner to escape Auschwitz. I love their episodes that are lighthearted but these were done so well. Lump in the throat stuff.

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:17 am

There were a couple of other episodes on the Holocaust as well. The WC series included an episode on Denmark’s experience during the Holocaust, where they were able to rescue nearly all of their Jewish population by smuggling them to Sweden, and a run on Rudolf Vrbna, the first Jewish prisoner to escape Auschwitz. I love their episodes that are lighthearted but these were done so well. Lump in the throat stuff.

I can't remember if it was Hungary or Rumania, but they basically refused to allow the Nazis to take their Jews, but that meant when the Nazis overthrew the government when they tried to make peace, they then just then took them anyway

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:55 am

Going to visit Holocaust memorials is essential, but so is learning about how the Nazis changed a country in ten years to the stage where they could get away with it

There's a programme by Chris Tarrant on CH5 that tells how the Nuremberg rallies were used to work the finer points of shipping people in the Auschwitz & the like. Think it was one of his extreme railway series. Well worth an hour of your time

Think it was Romania. I’m sure that the story behind Vrbna was he escaped because he knew that the Hungarian Jews (+ 1m) were up next on the conveyor belt to Auschwitz so that convinced him to go. He had the benefit of being a genius as well so once he was able to escape he could detail everything he knew in minute detail. Many Jews were still to be murdered but his actions contributed to disrupting the machine enough that ‘000,000s were saved who would likely have perished. Truly remarkable story.

BuryClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:43 am

It's really sad that we're starting to lose first-hand testimonies about the atrocities as Holocaust survivors pass away. Something that everyone should know about from a young age so it can never be repeated again.

Very true. I deliberately went to listen to a survivor first hand just before lockdown because the opportunities to do this are dwindling.

Ironic Russia and the Western allies destroyed nazism, and now we are witnessing the destruction of a nation by Russia.

I recently saw 'German Concentration Camps Factual Survey' DVD:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3455796/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

It includes Russian, US and British film of the camps.

Also remember Roma's, Gay's , homeless and a good few other were murdered as well

Mystifying how that warped mofo is still allowed on here. A real detriment to a decent forum.

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:51 am

I am going to Krakow next month and a visit to Auschwitz is top of my things to see list.

I’d also recommend going to the sobering Schindler factory museum and plaszow camp grounds.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:51 am

Mystifying how that warped mofo is still allowed on here. A real detriment to a decent forum.

I read his post and thought straight away, “here we go again”
Best to just ignore in this instance though, certainly not the time and place

I went to Plaszow a few years ago
There's nothing left aside from various memorials, the rest has long since turned to heathland.

This memorial was particularly moving though

I visited Poland in 1996 and went to Krakow and onto Auschwitz. It was February and it was a bleak, sunless day at Auschwitz where the temperature was minus 17C and snowing heavily. I went to both camps, Auschwitz 1 and Auschwitz - Birkenau, there were very few visitors there at either camp. The weather and seeing few people there added to the dismal atmosphere and overall it was a very sobering experience seeing first hand the conditions that the prisoners were kept in and knowing what the Nazis did to the prisoners in the gas chambers. The exhibits that hit me hard were at Auschwitz 1 where there are glass cases running the length of a room that held suitcases, spectacles, shoes, and artificial limbs that the Nazis took from the prisoners. There is another room where the glass case is full of women's hair that the Nazis shaved off women prisoners.

I was in the US last Christmas and New Year visiting New York and Washington DC. While In Washington, I visited the US Holocaust Museum which was very interesting and it included exhibits on Auschwitz. Just a couple of weeks ago, BBC 4 ran a documentary series titled 'The US and the Holocaust', the series narrated by Kevin Costner. The series had some eye openers for me particularly where the US Government though fully aware of what was happening to the European Jews refused to take many of these Jews in to the country. One story that stood out was where almost 1 000 German Jews had paid for and received visas from Cuba so to be able to leave Germany and to live in Cuba. The Jews paid for their passage on a ship from Hamburg to Cuba but when the ship arrived in Cuba only 24 Jews has pukka Cuban visas and were allowed to disembark, the visas of the rest of the Jews were counterfeit and not accepted by the Cuban Government so these Jews had to remain on the ship. The ship then sailed to Miami and when it reached Miami, the US Government refused to allow the ship to dock and for the Jews to enter the US. The ship subsequently sailed back to Europe where it docked in Belgium and the Jews were given refuge in Belgium, Holland, and England. The series is on catch up on BBC iPlayer.

I’ve not commented on this thread previously today but what happened was so horrific it’s sometimes difficult to put it into words.

I’ve never visited Auschwitz although I do keep telling myself that I must go. I did go to Dachau close to Munich a few years ago.

It’s right, it’s important, it’s imperative that people are educated on what happened. The world should never, ever be allowed to forget.

“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must - at that moment - become the center of the universe.”

― Elie Wiesel

Like CT, I have not been to Auschwitz but I have been to Dachau. Truly shocking to see some of the things created to be evil towards others.

Unbelievable what a human being can do to a fellow man, woman or child. Its a sad and disturbing part of history. Definitely spare a thought.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:51 am

I’d also recommend going to the sobering Schindler factory museum and plaszow camp grounds.

If you go up on Krakow Mound you can see the location used for the Plaszow camp in Schindler's List. Some of the buildings, including the watch towers are still standing.

Even things like the ghetto wall being designed to look like Jewish symbolic tombstones, shows how evil the Nazis really were.

I spent a while living on JudenPlatz in Vienna, where there is a very good memorial. It was a daily reminder for me. It’s also around the corner from the Jewish Museum, which addresses the role of Jews in the history of Vienna - two separate concepts, but both feature oppression. It’s in interesting juxtaposition in given the clear connections of Austria to Hitler and the Nazis. They walk a pragmatic line between expressing justified outrage and recognising the delicacy required when dealing with certain themes.

Agree with most posts on here, but we havent learned have we? whether it is one person who suffers from violent bigotry or 6 million the intent is there and people suffer. Look at all the persecution that has gone on since, even on our own door step in Europe.

I have just finished watching The Rise of the Nazis (a BBC series) and it is very mind-opening in terms of seeing how a democratic society can be manipulated and moulded into what Nazi Germany became on the back of a certain rhetoric and empty promises. Frightening how such indoctrination still exists in certain corners of this planet, but thankfully these eveil Ba5tards were extinguished and if you ever meet a German man or woman, old or young, they are so like us in terms of culture, humour, sport etc. it's untrue.

As for visiting Auschwitz, this is on my list. One place I have visited however is the Pinkas Synagogue in Prague. Not often have I ever stood somewhere, in public, and just wept. But I defy anyone to enter that building and not instantly realise the horror of The Holocaust. It's humbling and was a profound moment that I will never, ever forget.

Cheshireclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:38 pm

and if you ever meet a German man or woman, old or young, they are so like us in terms of culture, humour, sport etc. it's untrue.

that's the really scary thing about fascism. it's easy to demonise the germans of the 20s and 30s but they were just normal people perverted by promises and blame.

it hasn't gone away.

yTib wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:52 pm

that's the really scary thing about fascism. it's easy to demonise the germans of the 20s and 30s but they were just normal people perverted by promises and blame.

it hasn't gone away.

100%. There but for the grace of God.............

God rest all their souls.

Visited Auschwitz back in 2016, if you haven't been and are thinking of going, just a word of caution, the memory of your visit will stay with you..

Although there's more to imagine than to see there now, Birkenau, ( so called Auschwitz 2) was even more chilling than Auschwitz 1

The sheer vastness of the place with its destroyed gas chambers and crematoria gives you some idea of the scale of the horrors that must have occurred there.

As well as the millions of adults that were slaughtered it's estimated that over 250,000 children also lost their lives in that place of evil.

Auschwitz is an incredible place to visit. I’ll never forget a South African guy, in his 40’s, asking the tour guide what the gas chamber was used for. Everybody just looked at him in bewilderment.

Wish I could be confident that nothing so horrific could ever happen again. But

Over the years i have visited a good few of these places but Auschwitz is the biggest of them all , I would say if you go then go here on day one and the Salt Mines before you come home as the camp will stay with you . We had to cut out early on as the wife could not take any more of what she seen .
I was in Yad Vashem in Jerusalem twice 30 years apart , again these things stay with you and at the end of the tour you visit the book room with the well of souls with all six million names in book files are stacked around the walls . All very powerful and after reading this thread it all comes back to you .

Tribesmen wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:07 am

Over the years i have visited a good few of these places but Auschwitz is the biggest of them all , I would say if you go then go here on day one and the Salt Mines before you come home as the camp will stay with you . We had to cut out early on as the wife could not take any more of what she seen .
I was in Yad Vashem in Jerusalem twice 30 years apart , again these things stay with you and at the end of the tour you visit the book room with the well of souls with all six million names in book files are stacked around the walls . All very powerful and after reading this thread it all comes back to you .

Auschwitz totally haunted me and you're right in that it stays with you. Luckily we had another couple of days in Krakow after visiting. I'd have hated to have flown home the same night or even the morning after