I'll try and keep this brief.

Firstly - a few basic facts.

I think the points system started in 2005 - happy to be corrected.

At 350 points per season ticket, you would have had to buy 18 season tickets to get to 6000 without any away games.
There may have been 1 season when more than 350 were given. How many points and which season? I don't know.
How many people have 6000 points? I think there was a season not too long ago when we only had about 8000 season tickets so I would estimate that on season ticket purchases alone there could be as many as 7000 people with 6000 points.

A game such as Luton is a real one-off....far less tickets than our normal away following this season and on a Saturday afternoon. I'm not sure that there is any point in trying to develop a system for this one.

Blackpool is an example of a game where our ticket allocation is larger than most away games but it has sold out at 6000 points when most (nearly all so far this season) of our games reach general sale.

There seem to be two things happening. 1. People with 6000 points who don't normally go away have bought tickets for themselves. 2. People with 6000 points who don't normally go away have bought tickets for people without 6000 points.

Discussing point 1 boils down to a value judgment and I'm not going to try. Point 2 however looks like queue-jumping.

So what seems to be happening is that (objectively) there are a number of games where a number of people get tickets even though they personally have less loyalty points than some who miss out. We don't know how many people do this.

Finally the number of problem games may be small - but each individual game is important. Getting the tickets right for Blackpool means more than doing the same job for Millwall.

Surely the obvious problem is the use of the points rather than how they are allocated.
How about nominating certain games as ones where points cannot be transferred?
Another option might be to introduce a rotation system...if you go to one high-value game then you are at the back of the queue for the next?
An obvious early option would be to raise the threshold for the initial sale. I know a guy with 10000 points - he goes to pretty much every game and people like him certainly wouldn't be transferring their points - however I think this would just push the problem back a day to when the threshold was reduced on the Tuesday.

Is your objection to people letting others use their clarets number to get tickets for games that they otherwise wouldn't qualify for?

There's only one way to stop it, ID to be used upon entry to the ground to ensure the name matches.
People don't like that idea though, but it's about the only way at present, unless you have face scanning and people's pictures kept on club database

I understand people’s frustrations regarding tickets for away matches. But the only way to police it is as it is now, you have to look after the people who have followed the club and shown loyalty over a number of years. Yes it’s frustrating for the younger fans or new fans but it’s the only logical solution. Why should some new fan get priority over someone who has followed the club year in year our for most of their lives.

3 of us going to Blackpool, first away game since pne 6 years ago, we all have 9k points.

There is an element of complaining about not being able to get tickets to the Superbowl when you've not been to watch your NFL side all year round though, there's plenty of opportunity for fans to get tickets for games that aren't big local derbies - obviously the people who have supported the club for longer and given more to the club deserve priority. I don't really understand what there is to complain about? Go to more away games that don't sell out, build up your own points and then go to the local derbies next time?

And no before you jump on me, I don't get chance to go the away games either.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:08 am

Is your objection to people letting others use their clarets number to get tickets for games that they otherwise wouldn't qualify for?

There's only one way to stop it, ID to be used upon entry to the ground to ensure the name matches.
People don't like that idea though, but it's about the only way at present, unless you have face scanning and people's pictures kept on club database

I don't really have an objection to the current system. I agree with you though - some sort of id system is the only real answer but I think it would be (a) incredibly unpopular and (b) expensive

What method do premier league clubs use who sell out every away allocation? Example, Man Utd et al, who have 50,000? season ticket holders?

This is the age old problem ... there is no easy fix ... there is an age old adage too ... "if it ain`t broke don`t try and fix it"

Last season (and the past few in the PL) we weren`t selling out our allocation .. this season we are exceptional and everyone wants tickets.

Its not ideal but ............

Even Man Utd fans con the system otherwise how do the same fans attend EVERY away game when they have 50/60+ thousand season ticket holders!?
There's four ways to do it.....lose the points system altogether and just do season ticket holders first come first served.....give extra points for away games or cup games so kids and fans can catch up quicker.........if you haven't been to an away game all season you lose your 6k priority but go in at the 2nd stage......or a massive upgrade at all turnstiles so clubs can use technology to scan faces upon entry to check people buying are the genuine season ticket holders

Even Man Utd fans con the system otherwise how do the same fans attend EVERY away game when they have 50/60+ thousand season ticket holders!?
There's four ways to do it.....lose the points system altogether and just do season ticket holders first come first served.....give extra points for away games or cup games so kids and fans can catch up quicker.........if you haven't been to an away game all season you lose your 6k priority but go in at the 2nd stage......or a massive upgrade at all turnstiles so clubs can use technology to scan faces upon entry to check people buying are the genuine season ticket holders

keith1879 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:56 am

Surely the obvious problem is the use of the points rather than how they are allocated.
How about nominating certain games as ones where points cannot be transferred?
Another option might be to introduce a rotation system...if you go to one high-value game then you are at the back of the queue for the next?
An obvious early option would be to raise the threshold for the initial sale. I know a guy with 10000 points - he goes to pretty much every game and people like him certainly wouldn't be transferring their points - however I think this would just push the problem back a day to when the threshold was reduced on the Tuesday.

Blackpool would be empty with people eyeing up the derby 2 weeks later. What if, you accumulated points by buying season tickets and attending away games, and the more season tickets and away games you attend, the more points you would have, and then you could be in a higher priority category when tickets are released?

Winstonswhite wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:51 am

What method do premier league clubs use who sell out every away allocation? Example, Man Utd et al, who have 50,000? season ticket holders?

Ballot. You decide if you want to be entered into the ballot.

How about this for a fix

1) upon receiving their allocation the club requires you to register your interest for a ticket.

2) if supply meets demand, yay, everyone gets a ticket. If not:

3) Of the allocation, 50% reserved for those with most points, 30% reserved for mid points, 20% reserved for low points.

4) a ballot takes place for each category.

5) you are allowed up to 4x friends and family. Not you have 4x one set of people, your dad has another 4 and so on. It’s reciprocal, no arguments

Anyone of you gets picked, you 4 all get a chance at a ticket regardless of your LP score

5) if you select less than your 4, the tickets go back into the ballot until they are either gone or go to general sale after a deadline.

5) everyone’s happy?
that is less than a weeks work for a professional developer to work that out programmatically and have a working model, in no way is it complex.

Discussions can be made about the percentage allocation, just in my fag packet workings I’ve given those with higher points more of the cake due to what they will no doubt perceive as justification of longer support/money spent.

The lower tiers get access to a fair share of the ticket, so there is a chance you’ll get to go and also increase your loyalty points too.

I will happily work with Burnley to implement this at a low low cost of 5k per day plus exes, if someone can put me in touch.

They have a system at Brighton. It's strictly reserved so only the person who buys the ticket can use it, no exceptions. If you can't go, that ticket can't be passed on to anyone else, it must be wasted. At some matches, 10% of the issued tickets are cancelled by the club the day before the game (notification by email) and the holder must go to collect it in person at the away turnstile, with photo ID. If you get caught using a ticket that isn't in your name, your home season ticket is suspended for 10 matches without compensation.

They have something similar for home games - if you want to let someone else use your season ticket, you need to pay a £20 fee. Shared season tickets are impractical.

They seem to have an aversion to letting supporters, especially casual supporters, watch the games!

Big Gaz
love it you have obviouly got a lot of time on your hands to think this through, now if you can getthe club to pay you the £5k per day, ask them to pay me £1k per day for me to pick you up and return you to the farm you live in. Ill even pick up your nurse too, also see if they will supply us with white coats and a green van

I know you’re from the end of town where they still point in wonder at aeroplanes flying above, and how the first person on your street to own a mobile phone was burned at the stake for witch craft, but honestly, that’s a pretty basic suggestion

Season ticket holders, first come first served. Only 1 ticket per season ticket holder

Pommieclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:22 pm

Season ticket holders, first come first served. Only 1 ticket per season ticket holder

The correct answer

Pommieclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:22 pm

Season ticket holders, first come first served. Only 1 ticket per season ticket holder

A season ticket holder for 30 years should have priority over a season ticket holder for one season in my view and so a loyalty system feels right to me although an adjustment is needed for young people.

People with the highest points number continue to grow because they know if they don’t go they’ll just let someone use their number.

It’s a flawed system but I don’t know what else they could realistically implement

Sometimes when you’ve got a good side chasing promotion people will miss out whatever the system …

This is one of those times …

Pommieclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:22 pm

Season ticket holders, first come first served. Only 1 ticket per season ticket holder

Can’t see a problem with this

The loyalty system is undermining by the supporters groups who get as many tickets as they want.

Never in the histroy of ticketing have so many proper fans who have been to so many games amassed so few loyalty points.

Sproggy wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:59 pm

Never in the histroy of ticketing have so many proper fans who have been to so many games amassed so few loyalty points.

A lot of it is to do with the wonderful IT system the club used until around 2010. They lost loads of fan data and their associated points

thehistorylecturer67 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:58 pm

Sometimes when you’ve got a good side chasing promotion people will miss out whatever the system …

This is one of those times …

This has been debated before, first few years of being in the PL for example.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:06 pm

This has been debated before, first few years of being in the PL for example.

Indeed and it happens to any successful team faced with a limited number of tickets for any given game ..

It happened odd times in previous promotion campaigns such is life .. and whatever the club do or don’t do it will happen again ..

I was a member of Englandfans for years and years. Initially I hated the caps system.....Scotland away 2 caps, Scotland at home 1 cap and Egypt away 3 caps for example. The period ran for 4 years so by the time the WC came around Fred who had been to all away games had more caps than Jack who only went to home games. Away games had roughly 80% of tickets allocated on a number of caps basis and 20% into a ballot. Then the new 4 year period started and all members who renewed carried forward a small number of caps to give them an initial advantage, but if you didn't go to games in the next 4 year period you were overtaken by Bert who was new but was going to all the games.

As a BFC season ticket holder of many years I wouldn't change our system for over 6,000 reasons

BigGaz wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:15 pm

I know you’re from the end of town where they still point in wonder at aeroplanes flying above, and how the first person on your street to own a mobile phone was burned at the stake for witch craft, but honestly, that’s a pretty basic suggestion

whats an aeroplane ? is it a tool for planing chocolate bars? and the burning at the stake was a mistake they thought someone said climb that mast to get a signal and dropped there candle light.

But seriously have you got us the gig yet as I can get a dark coloured car to drive you to the club and back

Was easier during covid when they stopped fans going to matches.

Close the stands and televise the lot!