Muric

[ksrclaret]

This weirdo poster needed a new target to spend all his time getting angry about since Vydra left. Leave him to it.

[KRBFC]

Indeed and I’m just on here adding my comments which are as valid as yours . I’m not a Muric fan (as you can see) onwards and upwards with or without him

You're clearly not a Burnley fan either

[Prefeot]

You're clearly not a Burnley fan either

Am so

[KRBFC]

Am so

You just openly admitted to silently waiting for Muric to make a mistake, then jumping on here after his first mistake in months to criticise him. How are you a fan wanting our goalkeeper to make a mistake like a vulture? Sad

[Prefeot]

You just openly admitted to silently waiting for Muric to make a mistake, then jumping on here after his first mistake in months to criticise him. How are you a fan wanting our goalkeeper to make a mistake like a vulture? Sad

Not true at all that’s just lies tbh. I personally think Muric is too kamikaze for my liking. That’s basically all I’ve ever said . He’s not my cup of tea.

[up_the_clarets_1989]

Even if he did make a mistake tonight, he’s 24, played well under a 100 professional club games and is a massive reason as to why we are top of the league. Sadly he will never win the ‘get rid of it!’ brigade around. I’d prefer to get rid of them. Clowns.

[pushpinpussy]

I have not read this thread but i have major doubts with Muric. I appreciate anyone can have an off day and that we play a certain way nowadays and a certain system. However, what i also want from my Keeper is someone who is dominant, can catch a ball and makes saves. Unfortunately he does not tick any of those boxes and he will be a massive liability in the Prem.

[Nori1958]

Even if he did make a mistake tonight, he’s 24, played well under a 100 professional club games and is a massive reason as to why we are top of the league. Sadly he will never win the ‘get rid of it!’ brigade around. I’d prefer to get rid of them. Clowns.

Those clowns can probably see beyond their noses

I think everyone agrees we will be in the premier League next season, and that is where the problems lie.

There won't be teams like Preston who allow him the control play like he did on Saturday, he won't get half the time on the ball he gets this season, thus taking away his best contribution.

Watford had one shot on target, and scored, and it's not the first time this season that the opposition have scored with their only shots on target. Next season we will be facing six or seven telling shots on target most games, and I have seen nothing from Muric this season to suggest he can cope with that .

[TheOriginalLongsider]

In the interview following the game Kompany was asked why he made the half time change and he said it was a “technical change”. Nothing there about being ill

I don’t think he is a good keeper, but I do see why he’s in the team. He allows us to play in the way we do - basically 11 outfield players. No doubt we have won games because of this.

[RVclaret]

Those clowns can probably see beyond their noses

I think everyone agrees we will be in the premier League next season, and that is where the problems lie.

There won't be teams like Preston who allow him the control play like he did on Saturday, he won't get half the time on the ball he gets this season, thus taking away his best contribution.

Watford had one shot on target, and scored, and it's not the first time this season that the opposition have scored with their only shots on target. Next season we will be facing six or seven telling shots on target most games, and I have seen nothing from Muric this season to suggest he can cope with that .

It’s not really though is it? There’s been a problem with him, by several posters, since day one in THIS league. The PL doesn’t start until August, its miles off. Lately, in this league; we’ve conceded just 4 goals in 11 matches, winning 10, hes rightly been praised for outstanding performances that have contributed to this.

By the way it’s possible we bring in another keeper to challenge, its also not possible. All promoted clubs last season bought a new keeper, so I’d say it’s quite likely we will look to… but if his keeping was at a very high level already, there’s not a chance we would have signed him as he’d already be playing for a top 5 league club.

You are suggesting we concede from very little chances/shots, may I point out this is not the case (according to Opta stats), Muric is actually in the top 6 keepers in the league when it comes to ‘goals prevented’. This metric is calculated by subtracting the actual goals he’s conceded from ‘expected goals on target’, of which he’s currently in the positive (any positive is good for a keeper).

Ironically, Bachmann, who a poster on the previous page suggested he prefers, is well below Muric on this ranking.

[Muric Leggings]

Is Muric your Dad

Yawn!!! give it a rest.

[RVclaret]

Is Muric your Dad

Yawn!!! give it a rest.

It’s a bit bizarre when I’m told on a Muric discussion thread by a poster who’s named himself Muric’s Leggings that I am Muric’s dad.

[CryerBFC]

All of this - he won't have as much time in the Prem, personally I feel, until we get there and find out, is nonsense. Look at the game against Utd in the cup, BPF had more than enough time on the ball at times. Other than maybe the top 6-8 teams in the league, I think most will be hesitant to press high, with Cullen and whoever else we bring in, 2/3 passes and we've broke a press and on the attack. I have confidence in VK and who he picks to do the job he wants.

[Vincent'sCap]

He will be second choice or maybe third next season,quite simply this guy has got a clue on the basics of goalkeeping

[Burnley Ace]

If only we had some stats on his shot:save or goals conceded/game

[Nori1958]

If only we had some stats on his shot:save or goals conceded/game

No need for stats, watch the games with your own eyes, and see how few proper shots he's had to save this year. The stats will probably show he made two saves second half against Preston, yet they were just lobs towards the goal which were caught easily.

[RVclaret]

No need for stats, watch the games with your own eyes, and see how few proper shots he's had to save this year. The stats will probably show he made two saves second half against Preston, yet they were just lobs towards the goal which were caught easily.

Incorrect Nori. These two efforts were 0.03 xG each. Basically absolutely nothing and would need to be repeated 30 times to even = 1 expected goal, just FYI.

[Nori1958]

Incorrect Nori. These two efforts were 0.03 xG each. Basically absolutely nothing and would need to be repeated 30 times to even = 1 expected goal, just FYI.

So they weren't shown as shots on target??

[RVclaret]

So they weren't shown as shots on target??

Yes, but this is exactly why xG is useful, like you say they were weak, nothing efforts, yet would show as '100% shots on target saved' correct?

Purpose of xG, despite, imo, it's shortfalls, is to show the quality of the chance (which they weren't in this particular case).

What I highlighted above was that Muric is in the + (and also ranked 8th out of all Champ keepers) when it comes to 'expected goals conceded - actual goals conceded'.

[agreenwood]

In the interview following the game Kompany was asked why he made the half time change and he said it was a “technical change”. Nothing there about being ill

I don’t think he is a good keeper, but I do see why he’s in the team. He allows us to play in the way we do - basically 11 outfield players. No doubt we have won games because of this.

From the Burnley Express:

The ex-Manchester City stopper was replaced by Bailey Peacock-Farrell at half-time, which Sky Bet Championship Manager of the Month, Kompany, put down to illness.

"There's nothing tactical I can solve there," he said. "He wasn't feeling well.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Problem with winning runs and successful seasons is it gives some who seem to revel in anything negative very few opportunities to go off on one.

It would seem after winning 10 in a row that once we draw a game that this is the green light to seize their moment and let some steam off the inning prevents them.

[boatshed bill]

It can't be easy standing there knowing that a number in the crowd can't wait for you to **** up.
I hope this incident hasn't damaged his confidence.

[Nori1958]

Yes, but this is exactly why xG is useful, like you say they were weak, nothing efforts, yet would show as '100% shots on target saved' correct?

Purpose of xG, despite, imo, it's shortfalls, is to show the quality of the chance (which they weren't in this particular case).

What I highlighted above was that Muric is in the + (and also ranked 8th out of all Champ keepers) when it comes to 'expected goals conceded - actual goals conceded'.

So you actually agree with me that Muric hasn't had a lot of difficult shots to stop......which was the very point I was making

[Terrier]

Always has to be one in the team.
Graham branch always comes to mind with this topic, played more or less every position for us to help the team and the poor lad could still do no right for some!
Paul weller was another, cracking player who had 3 ops for colitis and still recieved plenty of grief!

[Nori1958]

From the Burnley Express:

The ex-Manchester City stopper was replaced by Bailey Peacock-Farrell at half-time, which Sky Bet Championship Manager of the Month, Kompany, put down to illness.

"There's nothing tactical I can solve there," he said. "He wasn't feeling well.

He was limping before half time..... perhaps that was his illness

[JarrowClaret]

From the Burnley Express:

The ex-Manchester City stopper was replaced by Bailey Peacock-Farrell at half-time, which Sky Bet Championship Manager of the Month, Kompany, put down to illness.

"There's nothing tactical I can solve there," he said. "He wasn't feeling well.

I posted this on the last page in reply to spiral but this is the link to his interview with BBC Lancashire Sport in which he says that Muric was ill.

https://twitter.com/bbclancssport/statu ... HmHqGmKG-g

Anyway it is what it is whatever the reason and I have no reason to doubt what Kompany said.

[4:20]

I feel bad for Muric and hope that if he has some sort of performance anxiety issue after incidents such as the one last night, that he can overcome it at the time. Needs supporting.

[Billy Balfour]

A brief summary regarding many of the comments on this thread would put a children's pantomime to shame.

Subbed or ill etc?

Oh, no he wasn't.... Oh, yes he was. Oh, no he wasn't.... Oh, yes he was. Oh, no he wasn't. Oh yes he was....

[frankinwales]

If he was ill then that would account for his poorer performance in my view. We move on and enjoy this amazing season.

Up the Clarets.

[JarrowClaret]

A brief summary regarding many of the comments on this thread would put a children's pantomime to shame.

Subbed or ill etc?

Oh, no he wasn't.... Oh, yes he was. Oh, no he wasn't.... Oh, yes he was. Oh, no he wasn't. Oh yes he was....

Oh no it wouldn’t

[Spijed]

The best thing to come out of last nights game regarding Muric and some of the other players is we had a taste of what it will be like in the Prem next season.

Watford have a few players who are better than Championship level and their pressing at times was a level above what we've been up against this year.

Both VK and Muric will have learnt an awful lot after last night's match in that regard.

[Burnley Ace]

No need for stats, watch the games with your own eyes, and see how few proper shots he's had to save this year. The stats will probably show he made two saves second half against Preston, yet they were just lobs towards the goal which were caught easily.

So he hasn’t had to make any saves or conceded many goals yet he’s a poor goalkeeper? How does that work?

[Nori1958]

So he hasn’t had to make any saves or conceded many goals yet he’s a poor goalkeeper? How does that work?

If you actually read my posts you'd realise how it works.

He hasn't had many saves to make this season, next season will be different, which is why his basic skills will need to improve

[CoolClaret]

No need for stats, watch the games with your own eyes, and see how few proper shots he's had to save this year. The stats will probably show he made two saves second half against Preston, yet they were just lobs towards the goal which were caught easily.

https://www.britannica.com/science/confirmation-bias

[Stayingup]

He was taken off last night because he gave a goal away. His passing was poor and he was probably affected by it. He'll come back.

[randomclaret2]

From the Burnley Express:

The ex-Manchester City stopper was replaced by Bailey Peacock-Farrell at half-time, which Sky Bet Championship Manager of the Month, Kompany, put down to illness.

"There's nothing tactical I can solve there," he said. "He wasn't feeling well.

Perhaps he wasnt feeling well after a bollocking from VK

[Lancasterclaret]

"I know the evidence doesn't back me up, but I see it with my own eyes"

[Woodleyclaret]

Coach him to catch and use his physicality better and he will develop into a top keeper

[RVclaret]

"I know the evidence doesn't back me up, but I see it with my own eyes"

Classic

[Nori1958]

"I know the evidence doesn't back me up, but I see it with my own eyes"

Reading your foe list again

[Lancasterclaret]

End of the day, he made a bad mistake yesterday and his passing wasn't as good as it has been

But on Saturday, he has possibly the best passing display you are ever likely to see from a keeper

And he's still young

I think its a bit early to write him off

[tiger76]

Clearly Muric isn't going to win his critics over, yes he made a howler last night, and usually when keepers make mistakes it results in a goal.

However this is only his 2nd major error that I can recall, and his passing his been vital to the way we now play as well as creating several goals.

Will we need an upgrade in the Prem possibly, but I'm prepared to give him a chance.

[Rileybobs]

Yes, but this is exactly why xG is useful, like you say they were weak, nothing efforts, yet would show as '100% shots on target saved' correct?

Purpose of xG, despite, imo, it's shortfalls, is to show the quality of the chance (which they weren't in this particular case).

What I highlighted above was that Muric is in the + (and also ranked 8th out of all Champ keepers) when it comes to 'expected goals conceded - actual goals conceded'.

Hold on a sec here. Surely if you're using the goals prevented statistic it would be more relevant to use the goals prevented rate which I'm guessing takes into account the number of shots faced? This would show him ranked 11th of the cropped list of goalkeepers below. In any case, having the 8th best shot-stopper in the league when we're comfortably the best side in the league is a bit of an outlier don't you think?

Most of the concerns I've seen leveled against Muric aren't how much his 'traditional' goalkeeping abilities will affect us this season - he goes through most games without having to make anything other than a couple of routine saves - but whether this side of his game will be a liability next season. The 8th best shot-stopper in the Championship (not that I think the statistics actually show that) isn't likely to be sufficiently good at keeping the ball out of the net at Premier League level, where the finishing is much more clinical and the chances conceded much higher.

As for last night, you could tell that Muric wasn't himself very early doors, his passing radar was way off the levels he's set recently. He was due an off-day, and the rest of the team bar one or two also took the same liberty, so it would be unfair to go overboard with criticism. But what this did show was more akin to what we'll face next season in that Watford were very well-drilled with their press and cut out a lot of our passing angles, and they were quick and powerful. It's fine to wax lyrical about Muric's heat map and passing against Preston, but in truth that was like a training session for Muric, one that he made look incredibly simple, but a training session nonetheless. And the big concern I have is that in simple terms, this season the attributes we require from Muric are 90% outfield player/10% goalkeeper, whereas next season this will more likely be 50%/50% - and his raw goalkeeping abilities will be exposed a lot more frequently and ruthlessly.

[Quickenthetempo]

Be interested to see who rightfully slammed Pickford for his error last night but wants to defend Murics even bigger error now.

I have said many times he has no goal keeping instincts, he's like a batsman converted to wicketkeeper.

Jos Buttler and Bairstow have been coached to a high level in their 2nd trade, there is hope for Muric yet.

[RVclaret]

Hold on a sec here. Surely if you're using the goals prevented statistic it would be more relevant to use the goals prevented rate which I'm guessing takes into account the number of shots faced? This would show him ranked 11th of the cropped list of goalkeepers below. In any case, having the 8th best shot-stopper in the league when we're comfortably the best side in the league is a bit of an outlier don't you think?

Goals prevented rate is the number of goals that a goalkeeper was expected to concede as a proportion of the number of goals they actually conceded. Having a positive 'goals prevented' is always good (although of course not to be used in isolation). All it does, is show that he's not as 'bad' / 'clueless' at being a keeper as several posters seem to imply, otherwise this would be near the bottom of the list. As for being an outlier, not neccesserily, City are the best team in the PL (well, 2nd atm), yet Ederson is currently at -4.2 for goals prevented this season, which puts him in the bottom 5 keepers in the league!

[Barlickclaret]

It was just one of those nights you get in football, he wasn't the only one who was below par, game over and another point towards the title.

[Rileybobs]

Goals prevented rate is the number of goals that a goalkeeper was expected to concede as a proportion of the number of goals they actually conceded. Having a positive 'goals prevented' is always good (although of course not to be used in isolation). All it does, is show that he's not as 'bad' / 'clueless' at being a keeper as several posters seem to imply, otherwise this would be near the bottom of the list. As for being an outlier, not neccesserily, City are the best team in the PL (well, 2nd atm), yet Ederson is currently at -4.2 for goals prevented this season, which puts him in the bottom 5 keepers in the league!

I think your Ederson example shows that this particular metric should be taken with a pinch of salt, don't you?

[RVclaret]

I think your Ederson example shows that this particular metric should be taken with a pinch of salt, don't you?

Well, I think we'd agree Pope has been having a great season for Newcastle, and unsurprisingly he's in the top 5 according to this, alongside Allison (again no surprise) and Bernd Leno at Fulham, who, on games I've seen of them has been very impressive. So I think it's interesting.

[JarrowClaret]

Be interested to see who rightfully slammed Pickford for his error last night but wants to defend Murics even bigger error now.

I have said many times he has no goal keeping instincts, he's like a batsman converted to wicketkeeper.

Jos Buttler and Bairstow have been coached to a high level in their 2nd trade, there is hope for Muric yet.

Not sure anyone (certainly I can’t remember reading any) has defended the error itself more defended him I guess.

I don’t agree he doesn’t have goalkeeper instincts that said he does have the look of someone who is wanting to bring out his inner DM self out when he has the ball at his feet. I have seen him live once at Sunderland and yes every time he had the ball at his feet I was crapping myself so I get the concern with him. He made a couple of big saves though in that game though and I don’t think he truly had a chance with either of there goals that day. This is the way we play though and will play whilst we have Kompany as the manager so we need to get used to it as whether it his him or the next keeper they will be doing the same or very similar.

He cocked up it happens we move on let’s win the next 1.

[Goalposts]

An interesting sub plot is that we are still after Anderlecht goalkeeper Bart Verbruggen , who we just missed out on in the summer, so allegedly now are liverpool according to Nixon. Was VK after this lad to be first choice as opposed to back up and bfp on the way out as some suspected in the early part of the season. BFP has done well when coming on and whilst not having the range of passing of muric has done ok. Does VK think we need a different goalie for the prem ?. Just speculating obviously, but the fact we are still chasing this lad probably speaks volumes,