I've got to feel for Charlie.

Had a decent enough season last year. One of the few players who stuck with us after relegation (through choice or circumstance, we don't know). Logic would suggest that a premier league regular would be a cast-iron starter in the league below and potential standout player. New manager comes in, he has to learn a new position and still only makes 21 starts.

He's got 12 months left on his contract, presumably one of the bigger earners and he's currently our 4th/5th choice centre back.

Do we think he moves this summer? If so to who and what level?

Charlie has been a fantastic servant and player for us over the years. He also has not let us down when played this season. It is also fair to say that he's not got a future in this particular team and style so it's probably best if he moves on this summer. It's a good question as to where does he go, it won't be the Premier League, so you'd have to assume the Championship... but even then he will be on a PL wage again next season so there might not be any Champ clubs that can afford him.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 am

Charlie has been a fantastic servant and player for us over the years. He also has not let us down when played this season. It is also fair to say that he's not got a future in this particular team and style so it's probably best if he moves on this summer. It's a good question as to where does he go, it won't be the Premier League, so you'd have to assume the Championship... but even then he will be on a PL wage again next season so there might not be any Champ clubs that can afford him.

Completely agree re his wage level, that's why I'm struggling to see where he ends up. A champ loan with us supplementing wages perhaps??

If VK saw him as a LB, I'd be more than happy to keep him next year to challenge for that spot with Maatsen (or whoever we get is he doesn't sign), but I think he's been quite clear in saying he only sees him as a CB.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Dyche take him.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:58 am

Wouldn't be surprised to see Dyche take him.

He surely would if Everton drop.
You would imagine there'd be a bit of an exodus from Goodison of the better players.

I’d like to think we would keep him another year however don’t begrudge him a move if it happens. I think he’d find a club no problems on a reasonable wage. A Sunderland, West Brom, Watford, Norwich maybe in the championship or a Bournemouth, Forest, Everton in the prem. However I would not be surprised at all if he went north if the border to a Rangers or Celtic

Even stranger when he's the best left back at the club

bumba wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:31 am

Even stranger when he's the best left back at the club

Particularaly when Maatsen is a loan player. We'll see but I would think his experience will be a plus next season.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 am

Charlie has been a fantastic servant and player for us over the years. He also has not let us down when played this season. It is also fair to say that he's not got a future in this particular team and style so it's probably best if he moves on this summer. It's a good question as to where does he go, it won't be the Premier League, so you'd have to assume the Championship... but even then he will be on a PL wage again next season so there might not be any Champ clubs that can afford him.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he does stay in the premier league. He’s easily good enough as a left back in a team that starts with a traditional back four. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him at Leeds or Everton if they stay up or even a club like sheff Utd.

It’s a strange one as he’s easily good enough. But like pope who is more than good enough, wouldn’t suit our new way of playing as well as others who are arguably less talented in the position on its own.

I can see him getting picked up by a Prem team as a squad player, similar to when we signed Pieters and Bardsley.

Just not what we need in a left back anymore - your mad if you think he could do what Maatsen does.

Yeah we sacrifice the defensive side of chaz’s game playing Maatsen but in possession there’s no comparison.

Maatsen dices teams open with his incisive quick passing

Charlie does not fit our style, VK is being kind to him by picking him as a sub from time to time.He can fill in at CH but would get skinned in the PL. At full back, just look at the assists and goals from Maatsen & Roberts, I think with Charlie its been no goals in about 6 years and two shots this season. Suspect he will come off our wage bill in Summer and join up with SD whilst we can get a fee for him, or he will join someone like Sheff Utd

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:38 am

Just not what we need in a left back anymore - your mad if you think he could do what Maatsen does.

Yeah we sacrifice the defensive side of chaz’s game playing Maatsen but in possession there’s no comparison.

Maatsen dices teams open with his incisive quick passing

Did you go on the match last night or.any of the previous few games? Maatsens struggled to make a 5 yard pass to a team mate his passing has been horrendous

bumba wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:24 am

Did you go on the match last night or.any of the previous few games? Maatsens struggled to make a 5 yard pass to a team mate his passing has been horrendous

If you can’t see what Maatsen offers in this system over Taylor then I despair.

Taylor’s assist record/ability to get up and down that left flank is nowhere near the level we need.

Happy to have him as backup in the PL if he wants it, if not then he will go.

bumba wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:24 am

Did you go on the match last night or.any of the previous few games? Maatsens struggled to make a 5 yard pass to a team mate his passing has been horrendous

Aye of course he does.

Have you watched the games in which Chaz goes back in at left back and all our attacking play gets monumentally
slowed down?

Maatsen is a ridiculous talent. Mind boggles

3 months old this video but still shows some of the ridiculous stuff Maatsen does every week

https://youtu.be/AnyojO9WUpI

Let's not assume that our loan players will be signed on a permanent basis.The seasons Tella, Harwood-Bellis, and Maatsen hae had will have put their asking prices through the roof. I understand Beyer has a pre-arranged fee, and that's hardly cheap.

That said, if Vincent Kompany managed to attract the players he did to a newly relegated Club last season, with reputed financial problems, and only 10 Senior players on the books, then the process should be easier with the opportunity to work with Kompany and Premier League football on offer.

Let's see what the squad looks like in mid July before we start disposing of a very capable servant, who can play across the back four ..

Last season and I imagine still he is a super PL level DEFENSIVE LB. His problem has always been he can’t use his right peg and he is so limited because of that. Modern FBs are all over the field, just look at the goals and assists we’ve had from Maatsen, Roberts & Vitinho this term. Charging down the line and winning us corners is sub-standard nowadays.
I’ll wish him well for his super service but I can’t see him staying.

Charlie is in the same boat as BPF. Nothing wrong with them if we were playing Dycheball. However VK plays a vastly different system and it needs different skills than those traditional ones for the position they play. Charlie has a great engine, decent pace, reasonable defensive positioning, good tackler, great blocker, overlaps quite well… that is all fullbacks were asked to do… VK asks so much more. Attacking Positioning, technique, first touch and awareness all need to be top drawer and Charlie is lacking in these areas.

Charlie could still do a job somewhere in Premier League but at left back - his proper and best position
My opinion of course

Taylor will struggle to find a prem club this summer.

He just doesnt suit the modern game.

He’s a solid left back with the added versatility to play at centre half which is useful in a match day squad, plus he’ll be keen to be back in the PL, so I expect he’ll still be with us next season. If I was him, and depending on who we sign, I’d be keen to stay and see how the first half of the season goes.

Taylor is a proven Premier League player. He is not as one dimensional as being portrayed eg. the ball up the line late on last night was a beauty. He's not really been given a go at left back this year but it would be interesting to see how it worked for him. Barnes has definitely learnt to thrive in the new systems so nothing to suggest that Taylor couldn't. Would like to see him stay but could understand if he left. Everton need a left back, neither is a patch on Charlie.

Essential we keep him - good cover at centre back and far better than Maatsen when we're defending - which we'll be doing a lot next season

Hopefully we keep him.

bumba wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:24 am

Did you go on the match last night or.any of the previous few games? Maatsens struggled to make a 5 yard pass to a team mate his passing has been horrendous

Numerous pinpoint crossfield passes last night, the ball of the game through to Gudmundsson and the knock back over the keeper that led to the 2nd goal. I think we can tell who hasn't been on the game.

Charlie was excellent last night at centre half when he came on. One moment stands out when they played a ball into the corner and 9 times out of 10 a centre half whacks it into touch, but Charlie played a wonderful pass into a team mate and we were away again. I really hope we keep him next season, his experience and defensive skills will be invaluable.

Two absolutely laughable comments on this thread though.
1. VK is only playing him to be kind. What tripe - he’s being brought on because he’s a damned good player.
2. Doesn’t suit the modern game. **** me. Clueless.

It won't all be roving up the pitch in the Prem. Lots of ladt ditch tackling, blocks and interceptions. Charlie is light years ahead of a sometimes sloppy Maatson.

I think we’ll sign another left back in the summer (as well as Maatsen) who suits the system more. Just throwing a name out there but Ryan Manning on a free from Swansea would do. That will make Taylor 5th choice centre back and probably never making the bench. Best for both parties that he finds a new club.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:58 am

It won't all be roving up the pitch in the Prem. Lots of ladt ditch tackling, blocks and interceptions. Charlie is light years ahead of a sometimes sloppy Maatson.

Not as a left back in the system we play he isn't.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:55 am

Charlie was excellent last night at centre half when he came on. One moment stands out when they played a ball into the corner and 9 times out of 10 a centre half whacks it into touch, but Charlie played a wonderful pass into a team mate and we were away again. I really hope we keep him next season, his experience and defensive skills will be invaluable.

Two absolutely laughable comments on this thread though.
1. VK is only playing him to be kind. What tripe - he’s being brought on because he’s a damned good player.
2. Doesn’t suit the modern game. **** me. Clueless.

He doesn’t suit the modern game. There’s barely any full backs now that can’t use both feet and get forward.

Taylor is solid defensively but as he has personally admitted the weakest part of his game is going forward.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:51 am

Numerous pinpoint crossfield passes last night, the ball of the game through to Gudmundsson and the knock back over the keeper that led to the 2nd goal. I think we can tell who hasn't been on the game.

Rarely missed a game all season and missed none at home. I like Maatsen but he's shown against better players he can't defend and when he's not on it his passing is terrible, the last few games have been prime examples off that he put us under a lot of pressure in that first half and opposition teams target our left side for their attacks

If the last few games have been prime examples of anything, it isn't that. Especially not last night.

Pretty clear from this thread that VK doesn't know sh1t about setting up a defence.

Taylor has been a good player but he’s not a fit for the system simple as that, he might stay and be a squad guy but he will be similar to lowton this season where he gets told his chances will be limited.
Personally think last season was Charlie’s poorest at the club, pieters was probably better last season

Some absolutely insane comments about Maatsen on this forum.

A decent percentage of posters on here don’t know anything about modern football.

Maatsen played a 40 yard ball last night through their midfield and defence into JBG’s path which dissected their team. He put a cross on and we got a corner from it, but because nothing came of it people won’t remember.

His ability to play as a third centre-half, inverted wing back (so basically a centre mid) and then as a winger - all in one game - is incredible for a just 21 year old.

But yeah, sure ….. on the fence about getting him. Whatever.

Socrates wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:31 pm

Some absolutely insane comments about Maatsen on this forum.

A decent percentage of posters on here don’t know anything about modern football.

Maatsen played a 40 yard ball last night through their midfield and defence into JBG’s path which dissected their team. He put a cross on and we got a corner from it, but because nothing came of it people won’t remember.

His ability to play as a third centre-half, inverted wing back (so basically a centre mid) and then as a winger - all in one game - is incredible for a just 21 year old.

But yeah, sure ….. on the fence about getting him. Whatever.

Spot on Socrates, I really don't know what they're watching, stuck in the mid 90's with their view on the game.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixer-Story-Pr ... 0008215545

^ Mandatory reading to any that think Muric/Maatsen are are a liability

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:58 am

It won't all be roving up the pitch in the Prem. Lots of ladt ditch tackling, blocks and interceptions. Charlie is light years ahead of a sometimes sloppy Maatson.

Not in this team

The only reason I wouldn't sign Maatsen is if we couldn't afford him (and prioritised Beyer and Tella)

One the main reasons we've been so good this season is just how good our full backs have been in this system, and Maatsen (and Roberts as well) are clearly our two best full backs

If it’s time for him to move on in the summer I’m sure he won’t be short of options.

Socrates wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:31 pm

Some absolutely insane comments about Maatsen on this forum.

A decent percentage of posters on here don’t know anything about modern football.

Maatsen played a 40 yard ball last night through their midfield and defence into JBG’s path which dissected their team. He put a cross on and we got a corner from it, but because nothing came of it people won’t remember.

His ability to play as a third centre-half, inverted wing back (so basically a centre mid) and then as a winger - all in one game - is incredible for a just 21 year old.

But yeah, sure ….. on the fence about getting him. Whatever.

Totally agree Socrates-yes he makes the odd mistake and his defending in the last 3-4 games has not been brilliant, however even Cucerrella who cost £60m makes the odd mistake. Maatsen in attacking mode is sensational, and I think VK could work on his defending and hone him into a potential £30m plus full back. He has the ability to be a stand out PL full back. Taylor is too one dimensional and ponderous as as he is so incredibly one footed , he has to be facing a certain way to pass even with his left foot, so his distrubution is restricted

Both Maatsen and Taylor are excellent players and have been excellent for us, but it's clear that Taylor is a round peg, in a square hole in this team. There isn't a role that suits the way he plays, no disrespect to him because I still think he was one of our best players in the Prem. He would be a really valuable asset to any team that more suits his style and ability. I think he will move on sadly, but needs must.

Just to add here.

Charlie Taylor is a really solid, Premier League level full back. He just isn’t suitable for a Vincent Kompany team.

Ian Maatsen is a very good player. I don’t think he would be nearly as good in a Sean Dyche team though.

Both top level players.

Maatsen’s passing overall is fantastic- the odd bit of sloppy play always gets highlighted on here.

Too sloppy for prem.

Interesting that Taylor was on the bench last night but our two other CH’s were not.
Particularly as El Dakill played at Boro.
That suggests to me that VK sees him as a utility type player who can fill in at Centre back and left back.
That saves a space on the bench as he covers two positions.
Personally I would keep him as a utility back up option. As much as I like Maatsen there have been times when Taylor has come in and done a great job against the more physical long ball teams. He would be great back up provided he is content in that role.

Granted Maatsen did do a couple of sloppy passes last night, but the good far exceeded the bad.

It's telling that Maatsen and Roberts had the most touches of any of players last night. 102 touches, 72 passes and I can only remember 1 or 2 sloppy ones? I'll take that all day long.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/16485 ... eld-United

We play with ball playing, attacking RB/LBs, and Taylor isn't that.

Would love us to sign Maatsen permanently, but if not, Charlie could still do a good job for us next year.

just my thoughts on this, Maatsen does, like last night, play some superb passes, he fit's the system VK wants better than CT, is more exciting as well as being a threat going forward, however, that's in this league! Plus, against his obvious talents he often put us in danger through his defending and being higher up the pitch often, it seems we get threatened more down our left side due to this, it's also why JB and CT to an extent have to cover him a lot.

Next season there will be much better attackers, much faster players and better passes of the through ball than Maatsen has had to face up to now.
Therefore to me he is a worry and I believe consequently, VK might have to occasionally adopt our style this season to be a little more defensive minded for quite a few teams next season. I don't mean he abandons his style completely and we start hitting a lot of long balls, but just maybe CT might be a better option to start with in a few games, his versatility wont harm us either and he may for some games go to three at the back.

I'm not saying CT is better but I feel he maybe someone we want as a left sided squad player.

I think if Kompany thought for one second that Taylor could do what he wanted a left back to do then he would have played him there, he hasn't (much) so very clearly he won't be our left back. His distribution is nowhere near good enough (that said, Maatsen's has been woeful recently) for what Kompany wants and his lack of starts would suggest he could be off in the summer (assuming Taylor wants to play)

Socrates wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:31 pm

Some absolutely insane comments about Maatsen on this forum.

A decent percentage of posters on here don’t know anything about modern football.

Maatsen played a 40 yard ball last night through their midfield and defence into JBG’s path which dissected their team. He put a cross on and we got a corner from it, but because nothing came of it people won’t remember.

His ability to play as a third centre-half, inverted wing back (so basically a centre mid) and then as a winger - all in one game - is incredible for a just 21 year old.

But yeah, sure ….. on the fence about getting him. Whatever.

Yep - his combination of tactical and positional acumen, passing and technical ability and outright athleticism is really, really rare.

Defensively, he has his lapses. Boro targeted him to some effect with fairly simple long balls, and he does have his mad 19 minute spells where he loses his head and switches off for the basics. But he also uses his pace to get himself out of trouble pretty regularly and his defending has improved out of sight since September, when I had him and Charlie neck and neck. If he maintains his rate of improvement he'll be just fine in the PL next season. If we can sign him permanently we should do whatever we sensibly can to seal the deal.

As for Charlie, he's been a fine servant but as others have said he just doesn't fit this set up. He's an analogue left back in a digital set up. As a result if we can get any sort of fee I imagine we'll look to cash in this summer. Funnily enough, at Premier League level his defending was always periodically a bit suspect and so my guess is that his Premier League suitors may be a bit limited. More likely is a team looking to bounce back at the first attempt (make weight for Tella?) or perhaps one of the newly promoted teams.

bumba wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:24 am

Did you go on the match last night or.any of the previous few games? Maatsens struggled to make a 5 yard pass to a team mate his passing has been horrendous

Seriously? Do you watch games with your eyes closed?