• An assist

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:11 pm**

Where build up play has led to a goal, why is the player who passes it to the goal scorer the only one who is classed as assisted?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:13 pm**

Because it’s the only sensible way to credit an assist.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:14 pm**

It's a really useless stat.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:23 pm**

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:14 pm
It's a really useless stat.

Not for the player who gets a bonus for an assist its not

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:33 pm**

Sorry...
Whoever it was crossed/passed/headed-on...blah blah on for him to score , l still come out with, 'he made it' in subsequent yapping after the match.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:37 pm**

Basically it's whoever it touches last, before the goal scorer. That's what an assist amounts to. So any deflection, no matter how small, counts as an assist.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:51 pm**

Assists can be a bit misleading, metrics to judge creative players on such as 'big chances created' or xA i(Expected assists) is 'better' if you will

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:16 pm**

What about a goal where every player touches the ball leading up to the goal, why is there no recognition in the stats of all those players who assisted in achieving the score? Why only the last player to touch it before the scorer?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:20 pm**

No Ney Never wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:16 pm
What about a goal where every player touches the ball leading up to the goal, why is there no recognition in the stats of all those players who assisted in achieving the score? Why only the last player to touch it before the scorer?

Because that would be impractical.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:21 pm**

I still say ‘made’ too. I actually don’t know why so much is made of it anyway, it’s just another made up thing for the stat fanatics. We really are heading too much toward the American sporting model, like so many other things.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:44 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:20 pm
Because that would be impractical.

Not really, why name an individual player as an assist?
Why is the the stat not a 7 player assist for example?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:46 pm**

No Ney Never wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:44 pm
Not really, why name an individual player as an assist?
Why is the the stat not a 7 player assist for example?

Because that would be impractical.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:54 pm**

We used to have schemers and goalmakers

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:56 pm**

In NHL Hockey they have a 1st and 2nd Assist.
Dean Marney was often a 2nd Assist.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:57 pm**

It should be called "aiding and abetting " for any team that scores against the Clarets.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:00 pm**

I'll never know how football existed before we had assists.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:20 pm**

I don't understand why Maatsen wasn't credited with one on Monday, yet Tella was??

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:43 pm**

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:20 pm
I don't understand why Maatsen wasn't credited with one on Monday, yet Tella was??

Tella's went straight to Guddy but Maatsen's was headed out to Guddy by their defender.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:47 pm**

Winston White I'd say

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:02 pm**

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:56 pm
In NHL Hockey they have a 1st and 2nd Assist.
Dean Marney was often a 2nd Assist.

Dean Marney played NHL Hockey ?!

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:07 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:46 pm
Because that would be impractical.

What says more about a goal;
Tella 37mins (assisted by Brownhill)
Or
Tella 37 mins (7 player assist)?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:15 pm**

Commy wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:43 pm
Tella's went straight to Guddy but Maatsen's was headed out to Guddy by their defender.

Thanks, still seems a bit daft to me

So can a goalkeeper deny an assist by getting his hand to a cross, despite it still reaching the goalscorer?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:30 pm**

No Ney Never wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:07 pm
What says more about a goal;
Tella 37mins (assisted by Brownhill)
Or
Tella 37 mins (7 player assist)?

Well a full description of the goal from start to finish says more about a goal but it's not exactly a concise overview.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:30 pm**

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:15 pm
Thanks, still seems a bit daft to me So can a goalkeeper deny an assist by getting his hand to a cross, despite it still reaching the goalscorer?

Yes. An opposing defender cannot assist an attacker. They play on different teams, you see.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:33 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:30 pm
Well a full description of the goal from start to finish says more about a goal but it's not exactly a concise overview.

It's not, but which of the two says more about a goal?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:38 pm**

No Ney Never wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:33 pm
It's not, but which of the two says more about a goal?

I would say that naming the assister says more about a goal than giving the number of players involved in the build up.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:40 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:38 pm
I would say that naming the assister says more about a goal than giving the number of players involved in the build up.

Would you mind explaining how?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:42 pm**

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:30 pm
Yes. An opposing defender cannot assist an attacker. They play on different teams, you see.

Wow.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:23 pm**

No Ney Never wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:40 pm
Would you mind explaining how?

Because we know who made the decisive pass which led to the goal, rather than knowing how many players were involved in the build up which is quite irrelevant as many times they wouldn’t have played a key part in the goal.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:49 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:23 pm
Because we know who made the decisive pass which led to the goal, rather than knowing how many players were involved in the build up which is quite irrelevant as many times they wouldn’t have played a key part in the goal.

A key is what opens, the last pass isn't necessarily the key to creating the goal, that could have been any action that opened the opportunity anywhere on the pitch.
Who made the decisive pass and who was key to the creation of the goal can be completely different, hence my questioning the validity of the assist stat.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:25 pm**

1 What should we call someone who assists an assist etc etc etc?

2 The person doing the assisting could wear a special uniform and ask,
"Please may I assist you, sir?"

3 What if you have a cyst on your bum?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:35 pm**

Im_not_Robbie_Blake wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:25 pm
1 What should we call someone who assists an assist etc etc etc?

2 The person doing the assisting could wear a special uniform and ask,
"Please may I assist you, sir?"

3 What if you have a cyst on your bum?

1. An assisting player.
2. Not really, they would be wearing Claret and Blue.
3. Then it would not be amiss to say that I'm not Robbie Blake is an a cyst.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:59 pm**

Who cares who touched the ball last before someone scored? BBC seem to.

: 805CB7F8-4C43-4AE8-B0BC-9DC82D915BE2.jpeg (292.65 KiB) Viewed 3063 times

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:14 am**

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:30 pm
Yes. An opposing defender cannot assist an attacker. They play on different teams, you see.

That's the logic they use in ice hockey, which is why you can't have an own goal in ice hockey because the opposing player can't score. The goal goes to the attacker that touched it last.

Not sure that's necessary in football, though.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:16 am**

This "assist" stuff is pretty handy for a forward in a bad run of form. Your winger beats three men and lays it across on a plate for the forward, the forward makes a complete dog's breakfast of it and falls over his feet, the second forward comes along and taps it in. Second forward gets the goal, first forward gets the assist, winger gets a pat on the back for trying.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:29 am**

Assists never used to be a thing when I was a kid, I hardly ever scored but used to assist almost every game, yet I was **** because I didn’t score

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:13 am**

Expected Goals is the most nonsense of all the stats. I don’t even understand what it means.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:03 am**

RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:59 pm
Who cares who touched the ball last before someone scored? BBC seem to.

805CB7F8-4C43-4AE8-B0BC-9DC82D915BE2.jpeg

and you'd have KDB in your team ever single day of the week, Haaland wouldn't have scored 100% of his goals without an assistant

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:11 am**

Although it feels like a bit of a nonsense stat I guess over a long period it’s a fairer reflection. DeBruyne getting to 100 first makes sense, some will be daft deflections or a basic 3 yard pass and in those games it’s ‘meaningless’ but loads will be those unstoppable trademark crosses.

You could even look at goals in the same way. Scoring in one game doesn’t tell you much. Poor finishers score lucky goals sometimes. But you don’t get lucky 25 times in a season.

Posted: **Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:04 am**

Shappie wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:02 pm
Dean Marney played NHL Hockey ?!

Yes, and he was just as good playing hockey as football.

Posted: **Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:59 pm**

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:04 am
Yes, and he was just as good playing hockey as football.

Not a bit surprised

Posted: **Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:02 pm**

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:56 pm
In NHL Hockey they have a 1st and 2nd Assist.
Dean Marney was often a 2nd Assist.

A second assister makes perfect sense;

Take a corner kick or free kick or whatever - often times they’ve been designed to have a knockdown to another player in the box - with the current set of metrics there’s nothing crediting the corner/free kick taker with an accurate delivery into the box

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:56 am**

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:02 pm
A second assister makes perfect sense;

Take a corner kick or free kick or whatever - often times they’ve been designed to have a knockdown to another player in the box - with the current set of metrics there’s nothing crediting the corner/free kick taker with an accurate delivery into the box

Or even the player who wins a tackle that results in the goal.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:45 am**

Murger wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:13 am
Expected Goals is the most nonsense of all the stats. I don’t even understand what it means.

I think we need xA - Expected Assists - to give more illumination on matters. Or even X2A - second assists.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:54 am**

Hipper wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:45 am
I think we need xA - Expected Assists - to give more illumination on matters. Or even X2A - second assists.

There is already xA while something called xT (expected threat) is the ‘before’. Essentially it looks at how threatening a player is (metrics such as dribbles completed, progressive ball carry’s, key passes made, passes into box etc). Both Benson and Zaroury are in the highest xT in the league.

Otherwise you can use FbRef’s ‘shot creating actions/goal creating actions’ which tells us the last 2 involvements before the shot/goal.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:40 am**

Spijed wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:37 pm
Basically it's whoever it touches last, before the goal scorer. That's what an assist amounts to. So any deflection, no matter how small, counts as an assist.

I'm happy to be corrected, but i don't think that's how it works. In that case, it would be an unassisted goal. I don't think they necessarily give an assist for every goal scored.

For example, Maradona's goal vs England in the 1986 World Cup (the good goal, not the "hand of god" goal) didn't have an assist.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:47 am**

Foshiznik wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:40 am
I'm happy to be corrected, but i don't think that's how it works. In that case, it would be an unassisted goal. I don't think they necessarily give an assist for every goal scored.

For example, Maradona's goal vs England in the 1986 World Cup (the good goal, not the "hand of god" goal) didn't have an assist.

I thought with 'The Hand of God' goal, the assist is in the title.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:04 am**

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:16 am
This "assist" stuff is pretty handy for a forward in a bad run of form. Your winger beats three men and lays it across on a plate for the forward, the forward makes a complete dog's breakfast of it and falls over his feet, the second forward comes along and taps it in. Second forward gets the goal, first forward gets the assist, winger gets a pat on the back for trying.

you are almost describing Ashley's two assists early this season.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:10 am**

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:02 pm
A second assister makes perfect sense;

Take a corner kick or free kick or whatever - often times they’ve been designed to have a knockdown to another player in the box - with the current set of metrics there’s nothing crediting the corner/free kick taker with an accurate delivery into the box

Fair enough. But in open play if the ball deflected off his shin would he be really deserving of a second assist?

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