Possession football

[Quickenthetempo]

Now we have had almost a full season to judge. What are your thoughts?

Do you love it?
Not bothered on style as long as we win.
Prefer faster direct football.

Doesn't just have to be about us, lots of teams play it.

[Swizzlestick]

We’ve been an absolute joy to watch for the vast majority of the season. Tactically fascinating too, particularly how we use the full backs. It’s been said repeatedly, but the way our style of play has been transformed is nothing short of astonishing considering the volume of personnel change and the timeframe.

[Shaggy]

This seasons football has been by far the most pleasing to watch since the Coyle era.

[CoolClaret]

It’s only ‘possession’ because we’re playing teams that sit with 10 behind the ball.

Just like in the cups with dyche we had high possession but looked clueless against lower league teams that sat in.

Far too much is being made of it, if a team is sat in you have to probe because otherwise you would be needlessly be giving the ball away.

If a team comes at us then we’re direct.

Also, just in case you didn’t know - possession isn’t time on the ball, it’s simply the number of passes made by one team as a % of the total passes made in the game, the metric changed a few years back.

So if a team predominately plays passing football then they will tend to have a higher % possession metric. It really doesn’t mean much

[NRC]

Love what we’re doing. There was one particular play out from the back, can’t remember it exactly, but Reading were really pressuring the player on the ball…. And we came away with it calmly and confidently. In comparison in the Sheff vs Cardiff game, in similar circumstances there was abject panic.

However, I want us to move back ten yards in the final third, and give ourselves more space to find runs

[Walkerpool]

I've loved watching Burnley for 49 years and I can't remember football like this it's a joy.

[agreenwood]

I prefer watching us pass the ball and I like having exciting players who get you out of your seat.

If nothing else, having the ball for 70% of the game is a lot better for the nerves.

[Carwin261]

I've loved watching Burnley for 49 years and I can't remember football like this it's a joy.

Can beat that ,65 yrs ,loved the early 60’s ,but watching clips from back then,we nearly always played pretty direct ,goal kicks were always long ,pitches weren’t suitable for short passes ,except in early ,and lates season.

[Vegas Claret]

most enjoyable season in my time on the planet

[Hipper]

It's a means to an end. If it enables us both stop conceding and to score then we're onto a winner.

However we've seen Norwich succeed with this in The Championship but fail in The Premier League. I don't think many of the current players have the strength and ability to repeat this next season. Sure we will bring in some new players who are better then we've got but more will have to be done when we are not in possession and also we need to be quicker and more creative when we attack.

I agree though that this has been one of the most enjoyable complete season.

[No Ney Never]

I'm enjoying watching us take to the field to play football, not watch the opposition play and trying to counter it, it's refreshing.

I think this season is the first time I have ever seen us score after every player has touched the ball.

[RVclaret]

It's a means to an end. If it enables us both stop conceding and to score then we're onto a winner.

However we've seen Norwich succeed with this in The Championship but fail in The Premier League. I don't think many of the current players have the strength and ability to repeat this next season. Sure we will bring in some new players who are better then we've got but more will have to be done when we are not in possession and also we need to be quicker and more creative when we attack.

I agree though that this has been one of the most enjoyable complete season.

You’ve made this point before but Norwich conceded quite a few more than we do in this league. The way we have 7 goals conceded in our last 21 games with only 2 of them being goals that came from the opponents good play/open play. Norwich also recruited poorly in the Premier League on both occasions and didn’t have Kompany as manager.

[CoolClaret]

It's a means to an end. If it enables us both stop conceding and to score then we're onto a winner.

However we've seen Norwich succeed with this in The Championship but fail in The Premier League. I don't think many of the current players have the strength and ability to repeat this next season. Sure we will bring in some new players who are better then we've got but more will have to be done when we are not in possession and also we need to be quicker and more creative when we attack.

I agree though that this has been one of the most enjoyable complete season.

Norwich are one of them that used to pass about for the sake of it. It didn’t look like they had much purpose with their patterns of play and rarely mixed it up to go long.

A lot of our goals this season have been scored by drawing the opposition in then releases killer ball over the top to Tella or whoever.

[bfcjg]

Love having the ball and watching the opposition chase shadows,only slight criticism is on occasions we almost try to walk the ball in for the perfect goal.

[tiger76]

Sometimes we can be guilty of overplaying, however it can't be denied we are great to watch this season, and after those frustrating first 3/4 games we've been delivering an end product with goals and excitement., Benson and Zaroury have made a huge difference since their introductions.

I don't think VK necessarily intended for us to have so much possession, but that's mainly due to opponents allowing us the ball and sitting back especially when they visit TM, thankfully we've generally been able to find a way of breaking packed defences down, although we've often had to show patience before reaping the rewards.

[Herts Clarets]

Are you asking if i would prefer the Westwood Cork Brownhill midfield playing side, side, side, then back to Tarkowski or Mee who launch long in the direction of Wood, or the current side who are dominating the ball, rarely lose possession, score goals from any number of players and are rightly lauded as one of the best sides the Championship has ever seen.

Leave that one with me for a while.....

[Quickenthetempo]

Are you asking if i would prefer the Westwood Cork Brownhill midfield playing side, side, side, then back to Tarkowski or Mee who launch long in the direction of Wood, or the current side who are dominating the ball, rarely lose possession, score goals from any number of players and are rightly lauded as one of the best sides the Championship has ever seen.

Leave that one with me for a while.....

No, not really.

Do you prefer peak Barcelona or Real Madrid? Do you prefer Liverpool's style to City's?

We had never seen possession football before, so we are more equipped to give an opinion on it now.

[martin_p]

most enjoyable season in my time on the planet

I don’t know how long you’ve been on the planet but I’ll respectfully disagree. The football has been pleasing on the eye but, whether it’s because we’re so much better than most of the division or maybe because of the style of football, the season has lacked a little excitement for me. I guess it depends what you enjoy but give me the injury time win against Rotherham over 3-0 up after 30 minutes then 60 minutes in cruise control any time.

So for me the season where ourselves, Boro and Brighton were neck and neck until the penultimate game of the season was far more enjoyable than this season. Every game in those last couple of months was tension filled knowing that any slip ups would let the other teams in and could cost us promotion. This season we’ve been safe at the top since new year and games have lacked that feeling of jeopardy for that reason, I.e. if we lose one we’re just 11 points ahead of third rather than 14, no big deal.

Now obviously this is not the teams fault and I’m not suggesting we should lose a few just to make it more exciting, but when measuring enjoyment pipping a couple of teams at the post to win it beats a long stroll to the championship any day.

[CoolClaret]

I don’t know how long you’ve been on the planet but I’ll respectfully disagree. The football has been pleasing on the eye but, whether it’s because we’re so much better than most of the division or maybe because of the style of football, the season has lacked a little excitement for me. I guess it depends what you enjoy but give me the injury time win against Rotherham over 3-0 up after 30 minutes then 60 minutes in cruise control any time.

So for me the season where ourselves, Boro and Brighton were neck and neck until the penultimate game of the season was far more enjoyable than this season. Every game in those last couple of months was tension filled knowing that any slip ups would let the other teams in and could cost us promotion. This season we’ve been safe at the top since new year and games have lacked that feeling of jeopardy for that reason, I.e. if we lose one we’re just 11 points ahead of third rather than 14, no big deal.

Now obviously this is not the teams fault and I’m not suggesting we should lose a few just to make it more exciting, but when measuring enjoyment pipping a couple of teams at the post to win it beats a long stroll to the championship any day.

Bet you wasn't thinking that after walking off a 2-0 home loss against PNE or 3-0 against Hull away.

That Blackburn demolition at home was sensational. I don't think we could have had a better game.

[CryerBFC]

I don’t know how long you’ve been on the planet but I’ll respectfully disagree. The football has been pleasing on the eye but, whether it’s because we’re so much better than most of the division or maybe because of the style of football, the season has lacked a little excitement for me. I guess it depends what you enjoy but give me the injury time win against Rotherham over 3-0 up after 30 minutes then 60 minutes in cruise control any time.

So for me the season where ourselves, Boro and Brighton were neck and neck until the penultimate game of the season was far more enjoyable than this season. Every game in those last couple of months was tension filled knowing that any slip ups would let the other teams in and could cost us promotion. This season we’ve been safe at the top since new year and games have lacked that feeling of jeopardy for that reason, I.e. if we lose one we’re just 11 points ahead of third rather than 14, no big deal.

Now obviously this is not the teams fault and I’m not suggesting we should lose a few just to make it more exciting, but when measuring enjoyment pipping a couple of teams at the post to win it beats a long stroll to the championship any day.

I find that somewhat hard to understand. Give me a 3-0 lead after 30 minutes every day of the week.

I’d much rather have the confidence in this team, than sit biting my fingernails at the prospect of ‘anything could happen’. The last minute winners are good in the moment, almost relieving. But a full season of that would have me pulling my hair out.

[martin_p]

I find that somewhat hard to understand. Give me a 3-0 lead after 30 minutes every day of the week.

I’d much rather have the confidence in this team, than sit biting my fingernails at the prospect of ‘anything could happen’. The last minute winners are good in the moment, almost relieving. But a full season of that would have me pulling my hair out.

As I said, I guess it depends what you enjoy, and in an ideal world we’d have a good mixture of both. But for me the real enjoyment comes from the closer games where the teams are more evenly matched. Don’t get me wrong, while we’re going 3-0 up in 30 minutes I’m enjoying it, but you do then get 60 minutes of nothing.

[martin_p]

Bet you wasn't thinking that after walking off a 2-0 home loss against PNE or 3-0 against Hull away.

That Blackburn demolition at home was sensational. I don't think we could have had a better game.

Yea, but the Blackburn demolition came in the last 30 minutes not the first, so we didn’t have the 60 minutes of us passing it around with neither team that interested in scoring. Besides, the Blackburn games are different, a lot of the enjoyment comes from rubbing their noses in it and I wouldn’t compare them to a normal league game.

[KRBFC]

It’s only ‘possession’ because we’re playing teams that sit with 10 behind the ball.

Just like in the cups with dyche we had high possession but looked clueless against lower league teams that sat in.

Far too much is being made of it, if a team is sat in you have to probe because otherwise you would be needlessly be giving the ball away.

If a team comes at us then we’re direct.

Also, just in case you didn’t know - possession isn’t time on the ball, it’s simply the number of passes made by one team as a % of the total passes made in the game, the metric changed a few years back.

So if a team predominately plays passing football then they will tend to have a higher % possession metric. It really doesn’t mean much

Not sure you’re giving the side enough credit if you think we only have possession because teams allow us without mentioning why some teams sit off us, if teams don’t sit off us more often than not they get carved into pieces

[KRBFC]

Why do you think teams sit off Man City? Because if they don’t City pass around them and tire them out quickly like they did to us

[CoolClaret]

Not sure you’re giving the side enough credit if you think we only have possession because teams allow us without mentioning why some teams sit off us, if teams don’t sit off us more often than not they get carved into pieces

Well yeah, my post inferred that.

[Lancasterclaret]

Remember what I said when we had these discussion under Dyche

There is a ceiling to how far you can go playing the low block, low possession style and though it suited us down to the ground, the two seasons where we massively over achieved we also played some very good stuff with some very good players where more of combination of really good players clicking or empty grounds due to COVID

Playing this way is far better to watch and the potential of how far we can go with it is a lot higher (and of course, it could all go wrong as well)

It will be interesting to see what happens next season as it will be far more of a struggle and how people react to the increased challenge

[Rick_Muller]

Also, just in case you didn’t know - possession isn’t time on the ball, it’s simply the number of passes made by one team as a % of the total passes made in the game, the metric changed a few years back.

So if a team predominately plays passing football then they will tend to have a higher % possession metric. It really doesn’t mean much

Is that true? I had no idea, I had wondered how the metric was calculated though

thanks for the info

[IanMcL]

When it works, it is great. When it goes round and round and rounsmd and round and round...continues, then it is not. There has to be action in the goalmouth. That is the excitement of football. Reading created more than us, with little possession. Luckily, they could not finish.

[Clive 1960]

Best football we have played since Coyle day's and possibly the 70s , what will happen in the premier League we will to wait and see .

[Culmclaret]

When it works, it is great. When it goes round and round and rounsmd and round and round...continues, then it is not. There has to be action in the goalmouth. That is the excitement of football. Reading created more than us, with little possession. Luckily, they could not finish.

Must have been at a different match. Reading created nothing.

[Rick_Muller]

For me it has been a fantastic season watching us develop. Early on there were still quite a few supporters shouting "gerrit foward" and "this tippy tappy crap will get us nowhere" now the same fans around me are generally more patient (still some whoppers though!). That said, next season they could all easily start moaning again as they misunderstand the concept and better teams will out play us (like at the Etihad).

We are now a force to be reckoned with - and many of the lower Prem teams wont relish playing us (Bournemouth away in the cup for example) and we will get some good results next season - I just hope the patience remains with some.

[IanMcL]

Must have been at a different match. Reading created nothing.

They had excellent opportunities and took wrong decisions or missed clear headers.

[Lancasterclaret]

Tell me you don't understand how possession football works without telling me how you don't understand how possession football works

[Quickenthetempo]

Tell me you don't understand how possession football works without telling me how you don't understand how possession football works

We might actually get a genuine football debate. Please don't spoil it by belittling people if they have different opinions.

[Spike]

A totally wonderful season . Fantastic football which only the churlish could dislike
The demolition of Rovers and Knobbers were simply brilliant
Because we’ve been so dominant some folk seem to expect more but
Promotion with 7 games to go
Over 100 points almost guaranteed
21 games undefeated and a ten match winning streak
What is not to love not like but love

[Lancasterclaret]

We might actually get a genuine football debate. Please don't spoil it by belittling people if they have different opinions.

Speaking for myself, a debate is a discussion between well informed people who know what they are talking about

I'm all for that btw

[RVclaret]

When it works, it is great. When it goes round and round and rounsmd and round and round...continues, then it is not. There has to be action in the goalmouth. That is the excitement of football. Reading created more than us, with little possession. Luckily, they could not finish.

Reading created nowhere near as much as us, let alone more than us. Benson and Churlinov had two big chances! We had 1.1 xG vs their 0.3. It wasn’t a game of that many good chances but saying Reading had more than us is just incorrect.

Aside from that, you are right in that possession needs to lead to action in the goalmouth and big chances created, I used to criticise Southgate’s England for being overly safe and not really high on chance creation, although that appears to have improved in recent times. With us, this is usually done with a sudden uptick in tempo when the ball arrives in the final third.

An underrated / under discussed part of possession football, if done correctly like we do, is it’s defensive qualities. Mainly that is done by managing games through keeping the ball away from areas the opposition want (we are incredible at this).

There are different types of possession football too. Spain are reluctant to ever change what they do, rarely play vertically and in recent times it’s why they’ve failed - Morocco found it quite easy to defend against in the World Cup. Arsenal play a slightly higher tempo to say, City, though still dominate possession.

Anyway, I’ve seriously enjoyed seeing Kompany’s football, when we are at it (generally when we’ve got a fit team and not after a fixture congestion) it’s outstanding. I mean, we restricted them lot to just ONE shot in 90 minutes at the Turf! Can’t wait to see us with some better players (no slight on the current ones) and watch how we develop further next season.

[Quicknick]

As enyoyable as watching the '72/'73 side. Miles better than Coyle's side.

[Quickenthetempo]

Reading created nowhere near as much as us, let alone more than us. Benson and Churlinov had two big chances! We had 1.1 xG vs their 0.3. It wasn’t a game of that many good chances but saying Reading had more than us is just incorrect.

Aside from that, you are right in that possession needs to lead to action in the goalmouth and big chances created, I used to criticise Southgate’s England for being overly safe and not really high on chance creation, although that appears to have improved in recent times. With us, this is usually done with a sudden uptick in tempo when the ball arrives in the final third.

An underrated / under discussed part of possession football, if done correctly like we do, is it’s defensive qualities. Mainly that is done by managing games through keeping the ball away from areas the opposition want (we are incredible at this).

There are different types of possession football too. Spain are reluctant to ever change what they do, rarely play vertically and in recent times it’s why they’ve failed - Morocco found it quite easy to defend against in the World Cup. Arsenal play a slightly higher tempo to say, City, though still dominate possession.

Anyway, I’ve seriously enjoyed seeing Kompany’s football, when we are at it (generally when we’ve got a fit team and not after a fixture congestion) it’s outstanding. I mean, we restricted them lot to just ONE shot in 90 minutes at the Turf! Can’t wait to see us with some better players (no slight on the current ones) and watch how we develop further next season.

I'm glad you have brought the defensive side of it up. This system to me offers the defensive side of our game far more protection, than it creates extra chances. Without anybody noticing.

When we're not up to scratch, we tend to draw nil nil now, instead of getting beat by 2 or 3.

[Spike]

As enyoyable as watching the '72/'73 side. Miles better than Coyle's side.

I have to agree

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm glad you have brought the defensive side of it up. This system to me offers the defensive side of our game far more protection, than it creates extra chances. Without anybody noticing.

When we're not up to scratch, we tend to draw nil nil now, instead of getting beat by 2 or 3.

That is the bit that (I think) people are struggling with when they moan about sideways passing and stuff

There is absolutely no doubt that bit of urgency is required to break open very defensive sides, but we are a much better side to watch now

The test is whether we can do it at the higher level

[CoolClaret]

Is that true? I had no idea, I had wondered how the metric was calculated though

thanks for the info

Yeah I don't know why pundits never mention it when referring to match stats...

The cynic in me says it's because they don't know themselves

[Culmclaret]

They had excellent opportunities and took wrong decisions or missed clear headers.

If taking the wrong decision is a criterion for creating opportunities then I think Benson created more opportunities on his own than the entire Reading team put together

[Claret53]

It has been a fantastic season to watch. The tactical variations and the sheer skill levels have been highly enjoyable.
There is, however, the paradox which martin_p has identified: football is at its most thrilling where there is an evenly balanced contest with each side being realistically at risk. The excitement of the last gasp winners this season certainly proves the point.
I have enjoyed watching the team and the management working the opposition out ( and often tiring them out ).
Next season will be different, in terms of the balance of power between teams. If you have missed jeopardy this season, you won't need to hold your breath next season as it will be there by the bucketload.
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing how this brilliant management team will set about building the squad for next season and what alterations there will be to the tactics.
Meanwhile, congratulations to the team, which has embraced VK's style and made it highly effective.

[IanMcL]

Anyway, I’ve seriously enjoyed seeing Kompany’s football, when we are at it (generally when we’ve got a fit team and not after a fixture congestion) it’s outstanding. I mean, we restricted them lot to just ONE shot in 90 minutes at the Turf! Can’t wait to see us with some better players (no slight on the current ones) and watch how we develop further next season.

I like your post RV. A good summary. Mine was written in frustration that there was so much passing, so many opportunities and yet we had to rely on JBG firing in a couple, to get some adrenalin going. All very pedestrian and Benson, with a whole prairie to dominate, failed miserably, on this occasion. We missed runners and through passes, to break the defence.

As for Reading, they cleared long mostly, although Andy Carroll released one pass to an incoming player, who muffed a glorious chance. There were other breaks, headers that looked dangerous, momentarily. We mostly failed to look dangerous. The result that despite little, the Reading crowd hot more out of it than we did.

Reminded me of Shrewsbury, early in the season. We passed forever and created nowt. They looked like they would score from every corner they had.

Momentum in the ladt third is key.

I like some excitement!

[IWOODLOVETT]

I too am a bit puzzled by the notion that Reading created more chances than us.

They set up a team of giants with 10 behind the ball and doubled up on our wingers. Their keeper sauntered around for 90 minutes and used every time wasting tactic in the book. The referee only seemed to realise what was going on late in the game and finally booked him in the 91st minute. Reading’s ONLY tactic was a hopeful long ball over the top for somebody (anybody) to run onto. They tried and failed with the routine of the long throw-ins and swinging corners, which BPF and our well organised defence dealt with superbly. Reading had NO shots on goal.

As far as our possession football was concerned, it worked up to a point, but as soon as Tella went off we lost the high press that he gives us and our play was then limited to the hope that Benson’s trickery could outwit his two markers.

It was interesting to see the free role that Robert’s was given often as an attacking midfielder (covered by the impressive Al-Dakhil). The whole game would have changed if Benson had converted a fairly easy one-on-one early in the game.

The roar at the end was as if Reading had won the FA Cup and I doubt if many of the home fans would agree that they had created more chances than Burnley. I was among the home fans (I couldn’t get a ticket in the away end) and judging by the comments after the final whistle the Reading fans were simply delighted with a pointed and relieved that they didn’t get a tonking.

[Spijed]

The roar at the end was as if Reading had won the FA Cup and I doubt if many of the home fans would agree that they had created more chances than Burnley. I was among the home fans (I couldn’t get a ticket in the away end) and judging by the comments after the final whistle the Reading fans were simply delighted with a pointed and relieved that they didn’t get a tonking.

Probably as much to do with their 106 point record not being beaten this season.

[Vegas Claret]

I don’t know how long you’ve been on the planet but I’ll respectfully disagree. The football has been pleasing on the eye but, whether it’s because we’re so much better than most of the division or maybe because of the style of football, the season has lacked a little excitement for me. I guess it depends what you enjoy but give me the injury time win against Rotherham over 3-0 up after 30 minutes then 60 minutes in cruise control any time.

each to their own ! I was talking more about our style of play tbh.