How do you define what is a fair wage?

Do you feel unfairly treated because your wage is below where you think it is?


Let's try and keep it non political afap.

Know your worth, if you feel undervalued and it’s falling on deaf ears, move on.
It becomes a little more difficult to do this in certain professions, I feel these people get taken advantage of.

I don’t blame these people for striking, but I’m also not a fan of aggressive unions.
I sit somewhere in the middle.

I think if you work 40 hours a week and you’re still pay check to pay check with about being daft (brand new car on tick etc) then it’s a poor do all around.

If you have had pay rises under the inflation rate over the years, you have suffered an ongoing paycut and your standards of living have fallen.
What are we, the seventh largest economy in the world?
It's not acceptable, the excuses a failing government offer do not wash and never have done.
It's catch up time, not necessarily in one pay round but over the next year or two.

Whilst not in anyway advocating violence, it would be funny if Junior Doctors took the same approach as the miners did in the 80's.

By doing what.?

Throwing bricks at coppers.

Oh, I thought you meant being charged by police horses.

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:04 pm

Oh, I thought you meant being charged by police horses.

Having had bricks thrown at them, and tried to mame them with chicken wire across the roads....yeah let's go back to those days

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:07 pm

Having had bricks thrown at them, and tried to mame them with chicken wire across the roads....yeah let's go back to those days

But if a Junior Doctor was to actually hit one with a brick he could then treat his injuries?

equinox wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:09 pm

But if a Junior Doctor was to actually hit one with a brick he could then treat his injuries?

Not if he was on strike

We just cannot keep printing and borrowing money like we are, productivity is pathetic compared to lots of nations, we have got use to low tax on pay, parties need to be honest and admit the only way we can thrive is increase productivity and if we want decent public services pay more tax, I would gladly pay more to see the NHS,care sector and schools properly funded, the other side of the coin is get them more efficient, and get industry more efficient.

I earn £15 an hour on average, which for what's basically an unskilled job, so I'm happy with that.

I've earned less in skilled jobs.

I find the issue today is the housing market being out of control price wise but no government seems willing to get a handle on it.
Rent/mortgage is the biggest expense people have

Average wage is £26k ish, average house price around £300k and that's gone up £17k in a year.

That's a very big difference and the issue needs addressing, but whilst house builders intentionally control the numbers being built then nothing will change.

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:11 pm

Not if he was on strike

True

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:46 pm

How do you define what is a fair wage?

Do you feel unfairly treated because your wage is below where you think it is?


Let's try and keep it non political afap.

That's a very tall order, you'll never get everybody agreeing what a fair wage should be because some of us will feel we should be rewarded differently for what we do.

If the need for huge, record profits wasn't running everything, then people could survive on smaller wages and pay rises, but the price of everything is going up, and the wages are following it

Inflation will go down though, but the fundamental issue is that we are paying a lot out for very little in return at the moment, and that probably has to change

The minimum wage rose by almost 10% this year, to the equivalent of c£20k on full time hours.

My wife for one feels undervalued as this creeps annually closer to her wage for a job which requires far more than a minimum wage jobs.

In a fair indexing system, if employers are increasing wages of those earning the minimum, then they should be increasing the rest at the same %. Although this would obviously increase running costs as well which would drive up prices.

Ultimately if your wage hasn’t risen with inflation over the last 10 years, then you don’t earn a fair wage and are being taken for a fool.
Someone further up said they weren’t a fan of aggressive unions, if unions weren’t aggressive they’d get walked all over.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:12 pm

We just cannot keep printing and borrowing money like we are, productivity is pathetic compared to lots of nations, we have got use to low tax on pay, parties need to be honest and admit the only way we can thrive is increase productivity and if we want decent public services pay more tax, I would gladly pay more to see the NHS,care sector and schools properly funded, the other side of the coin is get them more efficient, and get industry more efficient.

At last - someone who talks sense

As for the junior doctors claiming they have lost 30% plus of their spending power over the last ten years - welcome to the real world cos so have we all

If eveyone demanded a 5% wage reduction, what would this do to the economy/ inflation?

I honestly have not idea? Just a question.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:02 pm

At last - someone who talks sense

As for the junior doctors claiming they have lost 30% plus of their spending power over the last ten years - welcome to the real world cos so have we all

Does that mean they should accept it?

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:04 pm

If eveyone demanded a 5% wage reduction, what would this do to the economy/ inflation?

I honestly have not idea? Just a question.

Probably damage the economy as there would be less consumer spending but also bring down inflation as demand would drop.

So asking for a fair wage doesn't damage the economy but demanding a 5% reduction does?

The debate on a fair wage always seems to centre around those at the bottom. I'd be more interested in what we think is a fair return for CEOs and the like. I'm not sure people understand enough just how great the imbalance in wealth is.

Ten years of behind inflation ‘understanding’ by the public sector has resulted in nothing but the public sector being taken for granted until it bust. Now those same people who were glorified are being blamed for no longer be willing to accept Government mistakes being taken out of their wages while the number of billionaires getting fat off their Labour has gone through the roof…

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:11 pm

So asking for a fair wage doesn't damage the economy but demanding a 5% reduction does?

Well, Bank of England Gov Bailey actually tried suggesting people don’t ask for pay rises not too long ago, as that adds to inflation, and they have to keep raising rates. So technically if everyone gets pay rises then it is contributing towards inflation and thus damaging the economy.

NottsClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:11 pm

The debate on a fair wage always seems to centre around those at the bottom. I'd be more interested in what we think is a fair return for CEOs and the like. I'm not sure people understand enough just how great the imbalance in wealth is.

I think most people do ( after all we support a football team that pays it's players more each week than most of us will earn in a year)

But what is a fair wage?

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:15 pm

Well, Bank of England Gov Bailey actually tried suggesting people don’t ask for pay rises not too long ago, as that adds to inflation, and they have to keep raising rates. So technically if everyone gets pay rises then it is contributing towards inflation and thus damaging the economy.

The biggest boost to inflation was the council house stock sell off (Tory) followed by the disastrous buy-to-let policy (Blair), both facilitated and encouraged by the Bank of England… think they need to look closely at their own culpability before trying to claim the high ground.

It is no use building homes if no one is living in them and the majority are being sold to investors building portfolios and from speculation from the near, middle and far East has as been seen as a way of bringing money into the country for the last fifteen years

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:16 pm

I think most people do ( after all we support a football team that pays it's players more each week than most of us will earn in a year)

But what is a fair wage?

There will be a number of BFC players earning more next year than someone on £45k per year will earn in a lifetime

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:16 pm

I think most people do ( after all we support a football team that pays it's players more each week than most of us will earn in a year)

But what is a fair wage?

A fair wage is something that means you can work to live, and have some good things, and have somewhere to live, and have enough freedom to enjoy that one shot at life you have

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:02 pm

At last - someone who talks sense

As for the junior doctors claiming they have lost 30% plus of their spending power over the last ten years - welcome to the real world cos so have we all

Everybody's life should be equal & matter, everybody should be on the same wage providing the hours worked are the same whether it be a litter picker or a scientist, the need for a welfare system wouldn't be in existence with a fair share of the wealth.

equinox wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:03 pm

Throwing bricks at coppers.

My relative was a policeman during the Miners strike,they all loved it and volunteered for overtime to go on the picket line to face the miners and give them a kicking when arrested the bastids.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:55 pm

Everybody's life should be equal & matter, everybody should be on the same wage providing the hours worked are the same whether it be a litter picker or a scientist, the need for a welfare system wouldn't be in existence with a fair share of the wealth.

So why would you go through years of training if you could earn the same picking litter.....no doctors, scientists, professors, teachers, police...but the world would be free of litter

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:55 pm

Everybody's life should be equal & matter, everybody should be on the same wage providing the hours worked are the same whether it be a litter picker or a scientist, the need for a welfare system wouldn't be in existence with a fair share of the wealth.

Didn’t have you down as a communist Jakub that one has properly surprised me

So, yesterday I had to perform CPR on an elderly patient on the back on my ambulance, thankfully she survived….I earn 11 pence an hour more than the living wage. Each and every day I go to work, the likelihood of this happening is high due to the job I do…I voted to accept the 5% rise offered by the Government. Do I feel it is enough…meh, not up to me to decode but there is a finite amount of money available in this country. I could go and be a cleaner at a hospital for the same wage….I didn’t actually strike but sympathise with my colleagues that did…..

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:55 pm

Everybody's life should be equal & matter, everybody should be on the same wage providing the hours worked are the same whether it be a litter picker or a scientist, the need for a welfare system wouldn't be in existence with a fair share of the wealth.

Why in gods name would anyone want this.

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:07 pm

Having had bricks thrown at them, and tried to mame them with chicken wire across the roads....yeah let's go back to those days

Know a lot about the Miners strike do you,police winding them up, waving cash, false charges, Miners arrested for nothing losing their pensions? Do some research before you post on this topic

And presumably those not prepared to work would also get exactly the same wage, meaning even less motivation for the would be brain surgeon to undertake his daily litter picking job.

Sadly, society is pretty greedy and many of us have succumbed to a world of advertising where you’re never quite satisfied with what you have, always wanting the newest, best thing out there.

Not that there’d be much to buy in this new world as no one would be arsed making it or inventing it.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:03 pm

Didn’t have you down as a communist Jakub that one has properly surprised me

It's the right fair way of doing things in my view, you'll get people arguing against it especially the 1s that will suffer as a detriment but we all don't get the breaks & opportunities in life & boll***s to making your own luck it simply doesn't & cannot happen for some people, distribute the wealth & scrap the welfare system & make all parking & prescriptions FOC.

The thing is this divide and conquer by the media/Tory’s getting people to go against strikers is a tale as old as time.

They get people that are on 50k+ to think that those earning less must be lazy or want far too much, as though those on 50K are doing that much better.

It’s all a ploy and the real thing that is happening is that the super wealthy, and here I’m talking multi-multi millionaires, are buying assets and living off the revenue in which they provide, aided by all these massive tax breaks given and tax evasion by huge multi national corps, which is in turn driving up house prices/rental prices past a point of sustainability - the ten bob Charlie’s don’t think it affects them but it absolutely does, because it’s much easier for a rag to give them a false sense of high placement on the made up societal totem-pole and get them to think they’re ‘better’ than the ‘lazy ungrateful strikers’

I highly recommend listening to this chap: https://youtube.com/@garyseconomics

There is literally 0 analysis done of where money ends up, so you have an event like covid and money printed and where does it all go? Into the hands of the asset holders who then buy more and more assets because no one else can afford to.

Yet you get myths like ‘we want a low tax growth economy’ from your Liz Truss’ etc that the ten bob Charlie’s lap up and low and behold inequality in the nation rises once again.

We’re in danger of becoming a nation of haves and have nots and that isn’t good for anyone.

Support the strikers, buy local (if you can), avoid companies that exploit people (if you can) and do your bit.

Over and out

AmbleClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:09 pm

Know a lot about the Miners strike do you,police winding them up, waving cash, false charges, Miners arrested for nothing losing their pensions? Do some research before you post on this topic

" I was there"....as they say

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:11 pm

It's the right fair way of doing things in my view, you'll get people arguing against it especially the 1s that will suffer as a detriment but we all don't get the breaks & opportunities in life & boll***s to making your own luck it simply doesn't & cannot happen for some people, distribute the wealth & scrap the welfare system & make all parking & prescriptions FOC.

Opportunities are there for anyone willing to work hard enough.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:31 pm

Opportunities are there for anyone willing to work hard enough.

This attitude implies that all people that are struggling aren’t working hard enough which simply isn’t true.

Not expecting a postman to drive a Lamborghini or whatever bur for someone on minimum wage they should be at least able to afford an entry level property, transport & some pleasantries.

You’ll also find naturally less crime and other social issues if people could do more with their lot. The have and have not society just does not work - only have to look at the crime statistics of any country with massive wealth inequality & oligarchy

AmbleClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:09 pm

Know a lot about the Miners strike do you,police winding them up, waving cash, false charges, Miners arrested for nothing losing their pensions? Do some research before you post on this topic

I lived in a village (Elkersley) for a year with a lass. Their pit was shut. Her dad had passed and she/we lived in his house. It still had a white X painted next to the front door as her dad was a pit deputy and went passed the strikers. I once was going to wire brush it off, she went mental.
Went to the local pub and had a game of pool with a local, tried to speak to him but would not speak to me. She told me it was because his dad was a miner who was on strike and her dad went through the picket lines.

Thing was the pit shut 20 years before, nothing to do with him or me, but they still held those grudges. Need to get over it.

The last 13 years have seen the biggest redistribution of wealth to the already wealthy since Henry V111 cast his eyes over the monasteries.

Might be time to shift some of it back towards folk who actually need it.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:43 pm

The last 13 years have seen the biggest redistribution of wealth to the already wealthy since Henry V111 cast his eyes over the monasteries.

Might be time to shift some of it back towards folk who actually need it.

It’s pretty staggering to see people defending this behaviour just because they reckon they’re (comparatively) a tiny bit better off than those that it’s really effecting.

If left unchecked it would totally come for them as well.

The chickens have come home to roost.

The utter idiocy of Cameron and Osborne's austerity policies plunged public sector pay and staffing to dangerously low levels, and it was totally needless. A purely ideological move on their part. It made no economic sense whatsoever.

Over a decade later and now there's nothing left to give. People are at the end of their rope and the government are once again asking them to swallow more pay cuts.

It's unacceptable and they're right to be on strike.

JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:35 pm

The chickens have come home to roost.

The utter idiocy of Cameron and Osborne's austerity policies plunged public sector pay and staffing to dangerously low levels, and it was totally needless. A purely ideological move on their part. It made no economic sense whatsoever.

Over a decade later and now there's nothing left to give. People are at the end of their rope and the government are once again asking them to swallow more pay cuts.

It's unacceptable and they're right to be on strike.

The non political request worked then

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:43 pm

The non political request worked then

How do you discuss the symptoms of a failed economy without mentioning the people who are responsible for it? The subject by its very nature is political.