Brilliant New Burnley Podcast

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Yeah they certainly spent a lot. The initial video which they put out was orchestrated by Saatchi and Saatchi and wasn't cheap (for what was a simple interview video). This was filmed a few weeks before the takeover was completed so there was clearly a bit of money available at that point.

[Chester Perry]

Yeah they certainly spent a lot. The initial video which they put out was orchestrated by Saatchi and Saatchi and wasn't cheap (for what was a simple interview video). This was filmed a few weeks before the takeover was completed so there was clearly a bit of money available at that point.

it makes sense to have things like this ready for the off, so I have no issues with the idea of it - what I find interesting is how (and this is understandable given his background) Alan Pace's responses are a little blurred between how he has been prepped and what he actually sees in the opportunity, it is in those inbetween moments that I feel I learn some actual truth.

[Vegas Claret]

I think the pod has found a far better tone recently and the pettiness has for the most part gone, i've really enjoyed the last 3 or 4. Keep up the good work lads.

[Loyalclaret]

Our chat with Kieran Maguire is out now!

https://pod.link/1688380656

Interesting comment on FABs regarding the members being cherry picked and toothlessness nature of some 'where fans are impressed to be having tea with the chairman and nit challenging'. Reading the minutes of BFC's that rings true.

[Chester Perry]

Interesting comment on FABs regarding the members being cherry picked and toothlessness nature of some 'where fans are impressed to be having tea with the chairman and nit challenging'. Reading the minutes of BFC's that rings true.

the one Maguire was specifically referencing appears to be Arsenal and from the sounds of it, the Burnley FC one is starting to get a bit more serious about what it can do - at least on the fans side

[louieollie]

Thoroughly enjoyed the podcasts more and more throughout the season chaps so thank you very much for being at times our only source of entertainment this season . I would like to ask do you have any plans to carry it on through the break with different features/guests etc or at the very least pop in from time to time when it looks like things are happening at the club?. Fully understand you've got lives too but honestly it's been you guys or the Samaritans this season

[Ightenhill_Claret]

We’ve not fully formed our plans yet but I think the summer months will perhaps be more along the lines of a usual weekly podcast - might even do some stuff around the Euros - with the odd interview special, looking back ant particular seasons/memories, our personal Clarets journeys etc. The close season feels shorter and shorter every year so doubt they’ll be any dull weeks.

[aggi]

Just listened to the Kieran Maguire one, obviously nothing revelatory but nice to hear a Brighton fan talk a bit more realistically about how they got to where they are now

One thing which was a bit glossed over, possibly because it's just viewed as normal now, is how you need an owner to pretty much give a club tens of millions if they are to survive in the championship for any length of time. Is that really where we want football to be?

I'd agree that communication is poor but I think in many ways this is standard for football. You're holding ALK to a higher standard than virtually any other club, including our previous owners. It's definitely a problem but it's a football problem, not just a Burnley problem.

[ClaretPete001]

Another good one

I will say, on reflection, that I concur with Woody and claretpete on here that there is a danger in people giving what I say to much credence in terms of being absolute truth - particularly when I am not able to produce supporting evidence, though even then others with knowledge and experience have rightly challenged my interpretations even then, on occasion. I encourage everyone to find their own answers to the questions they have, It is something anyone who cares enough needs to learn, that is where I and my understanding came from.

Spot on re JJ Watt, he has been everything you said and is particularly impressive when asked direct questions. It is no wonder he is now the public face of the ownership group, he and his family have been a real godsend to ALK/VSL

With the accounts special proving so popular, it may be worthwhile considering other pods about what is going on in the background and with the ownership - I know you are looking at various things from passing comments in your pods.

I occasionally like to go back to that first press conference Alan Pace gave and consider what he said and contrast it with what we have witnessed so far - though I have been criticised for doing so previously. I think there is opportunity for a series of in depth discussions about the answers he gave that day.

Indeed, but I would equally say your contributions are invaluable and everyone who cares about the club and the town should appreciate your efforts. There is a modern penchant for relativism, which is very damaging I tend to think public discourse is about reflecting reality and not creating it, and no one voice can do that....! The truth emerges from Hegelian type creative dialectical conflict not niceness or collegial collaboration.

Marx's philosophical perspective was that capitalism is sited in a dialectical conversation though history based upon the value of a person's labour to the capitalist economy. The problem human society faces is what value does a human have in the capitalist economy when AI does all the work?

And that passage of philosophical meandering serves to make the point that a doff capping fan base that is given the truth by others has no future. Ergo, it is not healthy for us to agree all the time particularly where the weight of evidence sheds no light on the murky grey areas..

The comments that bothered me the most were those regarding the Chinese investor and Dyche leaving. On such comments there is no definitive truth, just a personal view on where the truth really lies and what that truth means to the person who is making those comments. It is not for me to say one way or another because I don't know - but I do have an opinion.

[ClaretPete001]

Just listened to the Kieran Maguire one, obviously nothing revelatory but nice to hear a Brighton fan talk a bit more realistically about how they got to where they are now

One thing which was a bit glossed over, possibly because it's just viewed as normal now, is how you need an owner to pretty much give a club tens of millions if they are to survive in the championship for any length of time. Is that really where we want football to be?

I'd agree that communication is poor but I think in many ways this is standard for football. You're holding ALK to a higher standard than virtually any other club, including our previous owners. It's definitely a problem but it's a football problem, not just a Burnley problem.

The previous owners didn't incur £230 million worth of creditors or spend £124 million of the club's money on shares.

ALK are being held accountable commensurate to their actions not because they are ALK. Man Utd suffered a breakaway club as a result of a similar purchase and huge fan antipathy.

Given the amount of stick the likes of Bob Lord and Teasdale and other have got through the years I think the fanbase has been very generous.

[aggi]

The previous owners didn't incur £230 million worth of creditors or spend £124 million of the club's money on shares.

ALK are being held accountable commensurate to their actions not because they are ALK. Man Utd suffered a breakaway club as a result of a similar purchase and huge fan antipathy.

Given the amount of stick the likes of Bob Lord and Teasdale and other have got through the years I think the fanbase has been very generous.

We had a previous owner who sold Turf Moor and the training ground to a company based in a tax haven and kept it secret for months until I stumbled across it on a company database. And even after that came out there was just a bland statement.

Very few clubs are open about their finances beyond the bare minimum. It's definitely something that needs fixing but ALK aren't a special case

[helmclaret]

I doubt many fans knew what a horrendous financial position we were in before the play off final in 2009, yet we were on the verge of administration. Flood and Co. seemed to escape any scrutiny despite nearly running us off a cliff edge!

[Chester Perry]

I doubt many fans knew what a horrendous financial position we were in before the play off final in 2009, yet we were on the verge of administration. Flood and Co. seemed to escape any scrutiny despite nearly running us off a cliff edge!

there is little doubt that the hardships of that decade (and the immediate impacts of the first Premier League relegation) changed mindsets in the board, with a firm resolve particularly in Mike Garlick (but also the others) that the club would no longer over-commit on their watch, spending only what they knew they could guarantee in income - it morphed somewhat towards the end (and i have offered a take on that a number of times - to much ridicule), but no one has given me a solid response to the issue of the high wage and amortisation to revenue ratio that the club was operating under. At the end of the day all businesses (and particularly football clubs) have to operate while understanding a number of different scenarios of events that may or may not happen, including a potential takeover.

[Chester Perry]

We had a previous owner who sold Turf Moor and the training ground to a company based in a tax haven and kept it secret for months until I stumbled across it on a company database. And even after that came out there was just a bland statement.

Very few clubs are open about their finances beyond the bare minimum. It's definitely something that needs fixing but ALK aren't a special case

There is no doubt Garlick was less forthcoming than Kilby and it was he that brought the end of the AGM's, but then he never publicly said he would be open or that he liked to communicate that I recall.

Unlike Alan Pace who had this to say about communication with the fans at that first Press Conference I linked on the previous page of this thread

“I hope that they will see that we are fairly open, I like to think very open, and we like to communicate because we like to hear ” 28:55

What we are seeing is that each new set of owners are getting more and more secretive and fanbases of every club now appear to have people willing and often able to scrutinise what is available in the public realm and go digging when met with a wall of silence, or some nothing statement - which many owners have developed a talent for, including ours. Many advocates of the Football Governance Bill and the proposed Independent Regulator for Football believe it will force clubs to be more transparent, while I am hopeful about that I remain sceptical of it in actual action.

[ClaretPete001]

We had a previous owner who sold Turf Moor and the training ground to a company based in a tax haven and kept it secret for months until I stumbled across it on a company database. And even after that came out there was just a bland statement.

Very few clubs are open about their finances beyond the bare minimum. It's definitely something that needs fixing but ALK aren't a special case

Indeed but your point was not about the owners actions but about the level of scrutiny of the owners by the Pod Squad.

ITV Digital and the sale of the ground generated a lot of discussion just as ALK is now. There is no difference. And most clubs whose owners create risk face scrutiny from the fan base whether it be Man Utd, Everton, the Baggies or whoever.

If Alan Pace was a billionaire or transparent about potential investment none of these conversations would be happening as they aren't at many clubs owned by billionaires because there is something for the thinking rationale person to justify a view that all is as it should be.

Unfortunately, in this case unless you buy into the thick rich American hypothesis who can find £10 million down the back of a sofa you are left with the miserable feeling that all is not as it should be.....! And for most of my lifetime the Burnley fanbase has been far quicker to judge than it is now.

[ClaretPete001]

I doubt many fans knew what a horrendous financial position we were in before the play off final in 2009, yet we were on the verge of administration. Flood and Co. seemed to escape any scrutiny despite nearly running us off a cliff edge!

Yes, but that doesn't justify not holding people to account now.

Kilby and co got away with it (to borrow a phrase) because the sums were relatively small and rationally speaking you would assume Kilby and Flood had the where with all to keep the club afloat even if they didn't..!

It's just not possible to rationalise £230 million worth of creditors when we are 5 games away from relegation and the loss of £50 million worth of revenue.

[Ilkley claret]

Some guy called Eugene Kan is one of our new owners apparently?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Some guy called Eugene Kan is one of our new owners apparently?

Yeah saw him LinkedIn the other day posting about the club.

[Pickles]

Excuse me because I don't use it but is it a prerequisite on LinkedIn to talk like a bit of a bellend?

[helmclaret]

Yes saw that. He’s apparently excited about our “underdog story”. Sounds like a prick

Good luck to him and welcome to Burnley.

Seems an interesting guy and hopefully the club will benefit.

[jlup1980]

How many "owners" do we have now?!

[ClaretPete001]

Welcome aboard Eugene. Enjoy the ride.

In the absence of any evidence of investment and given the choice between between the possibility that these people have invested serous cash or ALK are offering equity in return for brand awareness marketing I would choose the latter not least because of the phrase 'brand/partnership stakeholders'.

Or maybe I'm just a cynical old fart.

[daveisaclaret]

Anyone who describes football as "the intersection of sport, brand, media and experience" shouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of a football stadium.

[Vegas Claret]

Anyone who describes football as "the intersection of sport, brand, media and experience" shouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of a football stadium.

are you still enjoying 1996 ? BTW 2024 is crap

[Ilkley claret]

any little thing that goes towards us trying to achieve some sort of success should be valued yet it's met with 'sounds like a prick'

Backwards

So you agree we are an “underdog story” whilst eulogising about our “history “. Let’s see if he’s still “excited” in 5 years time.
I don’t agree that this is “trying to achieve success” It’s a few rich blokes playing at it because it’s the latest fashion in the US.

Having an increasingly fragmented ownership structure of individuals that have zero allegiance could be a disaster in the next few seasons.

[helmclaret]

He’s not from the US.

[Ilkley claret]

He’s not from the US.

Didn’t say he was

[ClaretPete001]

are you still enjoying 1996 ? BTW 2024 is crap

I agree, but I'm not enjoying 1996 I'm still savouring 1978. At least we have a cup final to look forward to....!

[Chester Perry]

So the Sean that Eugene Kan is referring to is a chap called Sean Wong

https://hk.linkedin.com/in/sean-wong-3a ... ap-profile
- I am assuming that the Justin is not Trudeau but not placed a name yet

Sean has a link to this on his LinkedIN page another piece about the same visit but the additional info suggests this is far from the first for some of them - are they co-owners or involved in the promotion of such opportunities?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jeanbapt ... ic_profile

[Chester Perry]

How many "owners" do we have now?!

the same as before it is ALK/VSL, just more have joined that group, it is the same people in charge and making the key decisions - I noticed that Adrian Bettridge was sat next to Alan Pace at the game yesterday, you rarely see him mentioned but he appears quite influential in that ownership group.

[helmclaret]

So the Sean that Eugene Kan is referring to is a chap called Sean Wong

https://hk.linkedin.com/in/sean-wong-3a ... ap-profile
- I am assuming that the Justin is not Trudeau but not placed a name yet

Sean has a link to this on his LinkedIN page another piece about the same visit but the additional info suggests this is far from the first for some of them - are they co-owners or involved in the promotion of such opportunities?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jeanbapt ... ic_profile

Justin Kuok from the research I’ve been able to do. Also based in Hong Kong. Runs a family office.

[Claretnick]

Think this is the same fella, the twitter profile photo is the same as the LinkedIn photo
https://www.bumpypitch.com/blogs/the-li ... eugene-kan

[123EasyasBFC]

the same as before it is ALK/VSL, just more have joined that group, it is the same people in charge and making the key decisions - I noticed that Adrian Bettridge was sat next to Alan Pace at the game yesterday, you rarely see him mentioned but he appears quite influential in that ownership group.

He’s the guy on MTB that kind of questioned kompany regarding the usage of foster last season compared to the fee paid and kompany said he will turn out one of the cheapest premier league strikers out there. Before the personal problems foster was looking like an excellent premier league striker, last couple of games he’s looked like he’s been rushed back

[Ightenhill_Claret]

There’s certainly some interesting names showing themselves as ‘investors’. Eugene Kan and Sean Wong both appear to be big players in the fashion world (Kan was editorial director of Hypebeast which I’m told by far more fashionable people than I is a bible in the men’s fashion world)

[Chester Perry]

From what I can tell it is Jean Baptiste Roy brought all six of those in the photo with Kompany to the ALK/VSL party

https://hk.linkedin.com/in/jeanbaptiste ... din.com%2F

[Chester Perry]

Justin Kuok from the research I’ve been able to do. Also based in Hong Kong. Runs a family office.

So that would be this chap then

https://hk.linkedin.com/in/justin-kuok- ... xXQ_MqY66J

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Interesting CP… post mentions the new talents and a certain Burnley-born fashion designer Aitor Throup. Could be in for very some interesting new merch if Aitor is involved.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

So that would be this chap then

https://hk.linkedin.com/in/justin-kuok- ... xXQ_MqY66J

That’s where my research has led also.

[Chester Perry]

Interesting CP… post mentions the new talents and a certain Burnley-born fashion designer Aitor Throup. Could be in for very some interesting new merch if Aitor is involved.

Not before time

[Chester Perry]

On a bit of a segway from Merch, I have had a feeling that fan and the local community has been targeted to make up for the lack of commercial growth at the club since the takeover - so I have been looking at the sources of non tv income at BFC, and put together this table - it will be much more interesting after the next accounts - where I am expecting close to £10m in matchday revenues, but it is high time that the commercial sponsorships jumped considerably - it really needs t get beyond £20m

BFC Non TV Income to July 2023.png (30.91 KiB) Viewed 1412 times

[ClaretPete001]

On a bit of a segway from Merch, I have had a feeling that fan and the local community has been targeted to make up for the lack of commercial growth at the club since the takeover - so I have been looking at the sources of non tv income at BFC, and put together this table - it will be much more interesting after the next accounts - where I am expecting close to £10m in matchday revenues, but it is high time that the commercial sponsorships jumped considerably - it really needs t get beyond £20m


BFC Non TV Income to July 2023.png

The table is interesting in that it shows that commercial revenue: (1) tracks the performance of the team 18/19 being the European season and that (2) commercial revenues collapse in the Championship.

It doesn't seem to show that the local community is being targeted unless I'm missing something or being particularly dim

I agree £20 million commercial revenue would make the club more viable in the Championship (it's dwarfed by Broadcast revenue in the PL) but the club has no chance achieving anything like it outside the PL.

[Chester Perry]

Interesting CP… post mentions the new talents and a certain Burnley-born fashion designer Aitor Throup. Could be in for very some interesting new merch if Aitor is involved.

For the record, Aitor was born in Argentina and moved to Burnley when he was 12 - he has quite the track positive record and will certainly been known to Eugene Kan and his chums, though I feel his usual designs maybe are a bit too out here for your average Burnley fan no to mention the pricing of some of that gear, young footballers on the other hand may find it right up their street.

https://aitorthroup.com/

No doubt he is well capable of producing things more commercially suited to the club, if his track record is anything to go by. The link he has to the town makes this a potentially significant collaboration and it is good that the club appear to be building on such links

[Ilkley claret]

Another excellent podcast today guys, thanks.

I thought the alternative view that the Bellamy post match interview is perhaps an insight into what’s going wrong on the pitch and the mentality of the players was really interesting. Almost a suggestion of woke management style?

[aggi]

Indeed but your point was not about the owners actions but about the level of scrutiny of the owners by the Pod Squad.

ITV Digital and the sale of the ground generated a lot of discussion just as ALK is now. There is no difference. And most clubs whose owners create risk face scrutiny from the fan base whether it be Man Utd, Everton, the Baggies or whoever.

If Alan Pace was a billionaire or transparent about potential investment none of these conversations would be happening as they aren't at many clubs owned by billionaires because there is something for the thinking rationale person to justify a view that all is as it should be.

Unfortunately, in this case unless you buy into the thick rich American hypothesis who can find £10 million down the back of a sofa you are left with the miserable feeling that all is not as it should be.....! And for most of my lifetime the Burnley fanbase has been far quicker to judge than it is now.

Well, the level of scrutiny tied in with the podcast comments about how much more open previous directors were. I don't think that was the case.

[aggi]

There is no doubt Garlick was less forthcoming than Kilby and it was he that brought the end of the AGM's, but then he never publicly said he would be open or that he liked to communicate that I recall.

Unlike Alan Pace who had this to say about communication with the fans at that first Press Conference I linked on the previous page of this thread

“I hope that they will see that we are fairly open, I like to think very open, and we like to communicate because we like to hear ” 28:55

What we are seeing is that each new set of owners are getting more and more secretive and fanbases of every club now appear to have people willing and often able to scrutinise what is available in the public realm and go digging when met with a wall of silence, or some nothing statement - which many owners have developed a talent for, including ours. Many advocates of the Football Governance Bill and the proposed Independent Regulator for Football believe it will force clubs to be more transparent, while I am hopeful about that I remain sceptical of it in actual action.

Call me cyncial but I just tend to ignore such pronouncements. But I don't think Pace has been too bad in terms of general visibility and engagement. It would be nice but I never expected much openness on the financial arrangements, you don't set up in Jersey and Delaware and then accounce everything that is going on.

I think one of the big drivers, as dull as it is, in fan investigations into finances is Companies House becoming free to search and obtain documents. Back in the 2000s when I was posting accounts summaries on the messageboards I was having to get shareholders to scan and email them over to me or stick them in the post before I could post them up. I mentioned the sale of the Turf to a BVI company further up, again I only picked up on that because I had access to company databases through work where I could see ownership, etc Private individuals couldn't find out without having to pay to download info from comapnies house.

[forzagranata]

Latest episode out - looking ahead to Sheffield United away. With deluded talk about 'what if' we somehow stay up?

[claretdj]

Love this podcast, a really good listen twice a week! Keep up the good work fellas..

[louieollie]

Well the boys are going to be a bit giddy this week after todays result, I reckon the "glass bone dry" old boy might even raise more than an eye brow this week . Joking aside I absolutely love the podcast chaps

[forzagranata]

Shef Utd Debrief out now.

[123EasyasBFC]

Shef Utd Debrief out now.

Had you a few pre debrief drinks last night? The positivity regarding us staying up, not heard anything like it from you before hahaha