Brilliant New Burnley Podcast

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Our chat with Kieran Maguire is out now!

https://pod.link/1688380656

[Conroysleftfoot]

Great episode.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

This is excellent.

[Vegas Claret]

the information vacuum line was excellent

[Vegas Claret]

just finished it, best one yet lads imho. Nice one

[ksrclaret]

Very interesting episode. Very concerning if we don't get back up next season.

[ClaretPete001]

Great piece struck the right tone. Grown up talk with an industry leading expert.

[Ilkley claret]

A great listen thanks guys.

At least Kieran didn’t add to our growing tally of red cards!

Btw I am an accountant! So won’t be buying the tee shirt!

[Doyt]

Brilliant podcast, a hard listen though and a real feeling of unease from me regarding ALK and their lack of transparency/accountability.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Thanks for the comments about this week's midweek special! I think the unease that people are feeling is the lack of commentary from ALK about the accounts.

The accounts show a couple of worrying points but ALK don't seem to want to ease any fears. Maybe that's because they're not worried (if not then say so!) or maybe they're so arrogant that they don't think we should be told anything.

Either way, it's a not a great look IMO>

[123EasyasBFC]

There’s only one owner who has actually come out and spoken freely about their recent accounts and that’s Paul barber at Brighton, easy to do when you have made 127m profit.

I can’t recall any other direct interviews from any other owners or chairman about their clubs recent accounts.

The accounts are an obvious concern and even if Pace did come out and explain it all, people would still be concerned and still wouldn’t be happy with it all, just have to hope we go back up at the first time of asking or even better win our next 6 and stay up

[Winstonswhite]

Thanks for the comments about this week's midweek special! I think the unease that people are feeling is the lack of commentary from ALK about the accounts.

The accounts show a couple of worrying points but ALK don't seem to want to ease any fears. Maybe that's because they're not worried (if not then say so!) or maybe they're so arrogant that they don't think we should be told anything.

Either way, it's a not a great look IMO>

Maybe they’re worried about those points too?!

Let’s be honest, Pace and his investors will be losing an astronomical amount of cash (to us mere mortals) if this all goes t!ts up.

[Chester Perry]

There’s only one owner who has actually come out and spoken freely about their recent accounts and that’s Paul barber at Brighton, easy to do when you have made 127m profit.

I can’t recall any other direct interviews from any other owners or chairman about their clubs recent accounts.

The accounts are an obvious concern and even if Pace did come out and explain it all, people would still be concerned and still wouldn’t be happy with it all, just have to hope we go back up at the first time of asking or even better win our next 6 and stay up

Paul Barber is an employee - lifelong Brighton fan Tony Bloom is the owner - the Bloom family connection with the board at Brighton is multigenerational but not continuous,

[CrosspoolClarets]

Think the nail hit on the head is the suggestion that it all depends on whether they know what they are doing, not just the finances but running a top football club in the “wild west” of multi million pound transfer dealings. The jury hasn’t yet heard all the evidence on that one let alone been sent out, so we will see, but certainly the long list of things backfiring this year don’t help that sense of confidence.

The collateral in this of course, is us - our enjoyment, our legacy, our feel for our own home town (former for some, current for others). If it all goes tits up, that’s a big chunk of our lives ruined. As Kieran said, at some point clubs like his and ours will be relegated.

I feel the owners are aware of this, and feel that pressure, but it doesn’t change the above risk or warning bells.

[Chester Perry]

Maybe they’re worried about those points too?!

Let’s be honest, Pace and his investors will be losing an astronomical amount of cash (to us mere mortals) if this all goes t!ts up.

As I have posted elsewhere on this board this week, I am fairly certain that original takeover group are already in profit, I cannot prove it, but that is what I believe, all because of those that have paid to join their group and of course Vlad Torgovnik.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

As I have posted elsewhere on this board this week, I am fairly certain that original takeover group are already in profit, I cannot prove it, but that is what I believe, all because of those that have paid to join their group and of course Vlad Torgovnik.

I've sometimes referred to the ALK model as being like a horse-racing syndicate - people invest for a share in the vehicle which ultimately owns the club. Am I far off the mark with that assumption CP?

[helmclaret]

Another good episode!

[ClaretPete001]

As I have posted elsewhere on this board this week, I am fairly certain that original takeover group are already in profit, I cannot prove it, but that is what I believe, all because of those that have paid to join their group and of course Vlad Torgovnik.

I agree they've likely had their money out but I remain unconvinced about who has invested what...

Do we know more about that yet other than the mysterious £80 million share registered at companies house

Another issue for me is the £232 million creditors including: £30 million of factored debts, £57 million of unearned revenue and £70 million worth of bank loans.

[claptrappers_union]

I'm listening to the podcast now... a term keeps coming up - By cheap, sell high.

But Trafford, Amdouni, Ramsey, Beyer and Berg were not cheap. How much are we expecting to sell them for?

[ClaretPete001]

I've sometimes referred to the ALK model as being like a horse-racing syndicate - people invest for a share in the vehicle which ultimately owns the club. Am I far off the mark with that assumption CP?

I'm not sure we know (Chester might) but the problem is if they are giving away equity they are diluting their shareholding quite dramatically if you believe some of the rhetoric. Albeit I did get an explanation about the class of shares (not Chester), which left me pondering why anyone would invest but ho hum

I also note their is only an assumption that Alan Pace is the controlling interest. Not sure how you can say that in a set of audited accounts or even what the point is but there you go.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

That's a good point. I guess the thought process is that someone like Trafford might cost £15m (or whatever the base fee is) and if you're able to flip him for £35m-£50m (unlikely at this stage I grant you) then there's a ROI.

The way the transfer market is going clubs are at £12-18m gambles in the hope that one or two of them hit superstar status and go for £60m+.

[Chester Perry]

I've sometimes referred to the ALK model as being like a horse-racing syndicate - people invest for a share in the vehicle which ultimately owns the club. Am I far off the mark with that assumption CP?

It is a reasonable analogy - though it is not as innovative as you may think - FSG is a similar model, it is pretty common in American sports, though we are starting to see it more over here.

It appears that they invest in or join (given the rumours about some 'minor partners' Velocity Sports Partners LLC and are awarded shares in Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey) the share structure there ensures control lies with the holders of the management shares - interestingly the more shares that are allocated to new partners the more control the Management shares have by virtue of there always having to form a minimum of 25% of total share allocation and that each holds a 100 votes, with Class A and B shares holding 1 vote each and Incentive shares having no voting rights.

Basically it appears that they are asking investors to trust them with their money and keep out of it, but you can come and watch some games and have some fun if we do well, while also slipping into conversations with friends that you are a co-owner of an occasional Premier League team. From that angle it appears to be just a alternative form of investment product with different bells and whistles attached.

[Chester Perry]

I'm not sure we know (Chester might) but the problem is if they are giving away equity they are diluting their shareholding quite dramatically if you believe some of the rhetoric. Albeit I did get an explanation about the class of shares (not Chester), which left me pondering why anyone would invest but ho hum

I also note their is only an assumption that Alan Pace is the controlling interest. Not sure how you can say that in a set of audited accounts or even what the point is but there you go.

This is something I have had an issue with for some time given that both ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partnership LLC are both Partnerships - There are number of things that I have been unhappy about in regards to the statement on Burnley FC's Company Details Webpage and this one is front and centre, particularly when it appears that at the time of the takeover Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey) had only issued 3 shares

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/leg ... ny-details

Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited is wholly-owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited, of which 83.97% of its entire issued share capital is owned by Calder Vale Holdings Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales (“Calder Vale”).

Calder Vale is owned, through a wholly-owned subsidiary, by Velocity Sports Limited, a company incorporated in Jersey. ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are the only persons or entities owning 25% or greater of Velocity Sports Limited.

ALK Capital LLC holds and controls the voting rights of Velocity Sports Limited, and Alan Pace, Michael Smith and Stuart Hunt are each directors. The persons having a significant interest in Velocity Sports Limited, and therefore Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited, are Alan Pace (50.382%), Michael Smith (16.794%) and Stuart Hunt (16.794%).

[Ightenhill_Claret]

I'm not sure we know (Chester might) but the problem is if they are giving away equity they are diluting their shareholding quite dramatically if you believe some of the rhetoric. Albeit I did get an explanation about the class of shares (not Chester), which left me pondering why anyone would invest but ho hum

I also note their is only an assumption that Alan Pace is the controlling interest. Not sure how you can say that in a set of audited accounts or even what the point is but there you go.

My horse-racing syndicate theory is based on the assumption that these investors are doing it for the kudos of having a successful football club as part of their diverse portfolio of interests (and have somewhere to use as a bit of a country club to impress other people of wealth etc). A bit like you would with a race horse - you might get some dividends if it does well but it's not the main driver.

The size of the investment I keep hearing from people at the last fund-raising drive was between £5m-£10 per investor (of which there were several takers!). Now that's a lot of money to us but possibly not to high-wealth investors who want to dip a toe before making that investment known or deciding that the club is in a position where they want to increase the investment.

For the original ALK group there's limited risk for them - they have a product rather than an investment themselves because, we believe, they've parted with little/none of their own money. For those investors, £5m-£10m isn't a huge risk.

I guess - and it is a guess - that ALK thought they'd hit the jackpot last season and that things would only end up on a further upward curve because they couldn't possibly get their strategy wrong. The bump in the road at the minute is things haven't gone to plan - the club is staring at relegation, the players they thought they'd be able to flip after a season of (relative) success haven't lived up to the billing and us pesky fans are constantly whinging about pies, flags, away fans in the home end etc.

Had things gone to plan then we could be sitting here looking at another round of TV money dropping into the bank, shifting some of the signings from last summer and bringing in the next set to repeat the process next season. Three or four years of that and then sell for a decent 'return on investment'. (WIth their initially investment being very little!).

All just an assumption/theory of course.

[ClaretPete001]

My horse-racing syndicate theory is based on the assumption that these investors are doing it for the kudos of having a successful football club as part of their diverse portfolio of interests (and have somewhere to use as a bit of a country club to impress other people of wealth etc). A bit like you would with a race horse - you might get some dividends if it does well but it's not the main driver.

The size of the investment I keep hearing from people at the last fund-raising drive was between £5m-£10 per investor (of which there were several takers!). Now that's a lot of money to us but possibly not to high-wealth investors who want to dip a toe before making that investment known or deciding that the club is in a position where they want to increase the investment.

For the original ALK group there's limited risk for them - they have a product rather than an investment themselves because, we believe, they've parted with little/none of their own money. For those investors, £5m-£10m isn't a huge risk.

I guess - and it is a guess - that ALK thought they'd hit the jackpot last season and that things would only end up on a further upward curve because they couldn't possibly get their strategy wrong. The bump in the road at the minute is things haven't gone to plan - the club is staring at relegation, the players they thought they'd be able to flip after a season of (relative) success haven't lived up to the billing and us pesky fans are constantly whinging about pies, flags, away fans in the home end etc.

Had things gone to plan then we could be sitting here looking at another round of TV money dropping into the bank, shifting some of the signings from last summer and bringing in the next set to repeat the process next season. Three or four years of that and then sell for a decent 'return on investment'. (WIth their initially investment being very little!).

All just an assumption/theory of course.

Are there really people wealthy enough to invest £10 million in a club that makes no profits, pays no divis and who receive no equity in the business?

How come clubs like Everton aren't rolling in it? Surely, they would attract more interest than us.

I mean even to JJ Watts £10 million is a lot. There cannot be that many people even in the States who have £10 million to throw at a football club no one has heard of to impress the folks at the country club.

Is there any evidence of people paying £10 million for a class of share that receives sweet FA in any other sporting business?

[Ightenhill_Claret]

I agree Pete, seems incredibly hard to believe that anyone would do that. But ALK clearly have a bit of a knack of persuading some people to part with their cash in this way (the likes of JJ Watt, Malcolm Jenkins etc have happily done so).

I guess the attraction with a club like Burnley is probably the feeling that it is available for 'below market value' (compared to the likes of an Everton/other big-city club). And if you don't know the limitations of the area/club (ie. we'll never be in the same bracket profitability wise as the big clubs) then it could seem like a worthwhile investment.

And maybe Burnley is the start of a multi-club ambition which will realise more potential profits? We know ALK has flirted with the idea of buying a couple of clubs.

All of the plan is still yet to be realised but the starting point (with the vision of an end point) might be enough to tempt people to take a measured gamble on it.

[ClaretPete001]

It is a reasonable analogy - though it is not as innovative as you may think - FSG is a similar model, it is pretty common in American sports, though we are starting to see it more over here.

It appears that they invest in or join (given the rumours about some 'minor partners' Velocity Sports Partners LLC and are awarded shares in Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey) the share structure there ensures control lies with the holders of the management shares - interestingly the more shares that are allocated to new partners the more control the Management shares have by virtue of there always having to form a minimum of 25% of total share allocation and that each holds a 100 votes, with Class A and B shares holding 1 vote each and Incentive shares having no voting rights.

Basically it appears that they are asking investors to trust them with their money and keep out of it, but you can come and watch some games and have some fun if we do well, while also slipping into conversations with friends that you are a co-owner of an occasional Premier League team. From that angle it appears to be just a alternative form of investment product with different bells and whistles attached.

Interesting, but trust them to invest in what...? The club was only bought for £200 million how much equity can they give away before there is no value in it and if they aren't giving equity away then what's the point? Football clubs don't make profits in this country to pay divis.

[ClaretPete001]

I agree Pete, seems incredibly hard to believe that anyone would do that. But ALK clearly have a bit of a knack of persuading some people to part with their cash in this way (the likes of JJ Watt, Malcolm Jenkins etc have happily done so).

I guess the attraction with a club like Burnley is probably the feeling that it is available for 'below market value' (compared to the likes of an Everton/other big-city club). And if you don't know the limitations of the area/club (ie. we'll never be in the same bracket profitability wise as the big clubs) then it could seem like a worthwhile investment.

And maybe Burnley is the start of a multi-club ambition which will realise more potential profits? We know ALK has flirted with the idea of buying a couple of clubs.

All of the plan is still yet to be realised but the starting point (with the vision of an end point) might be enough to tempt people to take a measured gamble on it.

I mean fair enough but do we know JJ Watt has paid for his investment or is he just consultant paid in equity.

I don't want to be the fly in the ointment perpetually but I went to Barden the concept of someone paying £10 million to impress friends at the country club is about as alien as ET on a push bike.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

That's the million dollar question - I don't know what they're investing in. We don't really know which of the entities that ALK have they are investing in. We don't know why anyone would invest. And that's probably just the way ALK like it.

But there was certainly a big drive to attract investors (complete with very glossy brochure!) last summer.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

I mean fair enough but do we know JJ Watt has paid for his investment or is he just consultant paid in equity.

I don't want to be the fly in the ointment perpetually but I went to Barden the concept of someone paying £10 million to impress friends at the country club is about as alien as ET on a push bike.

It's completely alien to me as well. But I look at Turf Moor as the country club - they've invested in a product they can show off to their friends, bring them over to see the Premier League in action, maybe help make introductions to progress business deals etc.

[jdrobbo]

Excellent show. Thank you

[JohnMcGreal]

I'm listening to the podcast now... a term keeps coming up - By cheap, sell high.

But Trafford, Amdouni, Ramsey, Beyer and Berg were not cheap. How much are we expecting to sell them for?

You can take it a step further and apply that to the football club itself.

Did they buy BFC at a cheap price? I don't think so. On the back of 5 consecutive years in the PL with no debts and a huge cash surplus the club was probably at its peak in terms of valuation.

But then again they didn't buy it with their own money so maybe they're not too bothered.

For a group that seem to place an awful lot in buying and selling for profit they don't seem to be very good at it.

[ClaretPete001]

It's completely alien to me as well. But I look at Turf Moor as the country club - they've invested in a product they can show off to their friends, bring them over to see the Premier League in action, maybe help make introductions to progress business deals etc.

Maybe you are right but I shall remain a stoic unbeliever. I mean you can get a log cabin and an outdoor spa for two at centre parks for less than £3 grand.

[123EasyasBFC]

Paul Barber is an employee - lifelong Brighton fan Tony Bloom is the owner - the Bloom family connection with the board at Brighton is multigenerational but not continuous,

The point still stands, as far as I can see Paul Barber is the only official from a club who has recently done an interview about their clubs recent finances

[123EasyasBFC]

I agree Pete, seems incredibly hard to believe that anyone would do that. But ALK clearly have a bit of a knack of persuading some people to part with their cash in this way (the likes of JJ Watt, Malcolm Jenkins etc have happily done so).

I guess the attraction with a club like Burnley is probably the feeling that it is available for 'below market value' (compared to the likes of an Everton/other big-city club). And if you don't know the limitations of the area/club (ie. we'll never be in the same bracket profitability wise as the big clubs) then it could seem like a worthwhile investment.

And maybe Burnley is the start of a multi-club ambition which will realise more potential profits? We know ALK has flirted with the idea of buying a couple of clubs.

All of the plan is still yet to be realised but the starting point (with the vision of an end point) might be enough to tempt people to take a measured gamble on it.

Having had the section on the Burnley accounts about going concern and its ability to finance the club in result of a long period of time in the championship, buying another club should be way down on ALKs agenda. The idea back in the summer to purchase that club from Belgium who are sitting bottom of the league didn’t seem a bright idea to generate more profit

[Vegas Claret]

Are there really people wealthy enough to invest £10 million in a club that makes no profits, pays no divis and who receive no equity in the business?

How come clubs like Everton aren't rolling in it? Surely, they would attract more interest than us.

I mean even to JJ Watts £10 million is a lot. There cannot be that many people even in the States who have £10 million to throw at a football club no one has heard of to impress the folks at the country club.

Is there any evidence of people paying £10 million for a class of share that receives sweet FA in any other sporting business?

to many people in the US 10 million is found down the back of the sofa

edit: I've had a look down the back of my sofa and all I found was a stale crisp !

[Fretters]

to many people in the US 10 million is found down the back of the sofa

I think this is probably the case, the 'smaller' investors such as the Watts are most likely just doing it for the enjoyment and kudos of owning a stake in a football club as it's 'small change' to them.

Really excellent podcast, by the way.

[jlup1980]

As I have posted elsewhere on this board this week, I am fairly certain that original takeover group are already in profit, I cannot prove it, but that is what I believe, all because of those that have paid to join their group and of course Vlad Torgovnik.

And this is the crux of the problem. We are being used as a vehicle to make money for a small number of investors. The club itself can announce big losses, and we can read comments about us not being a going concern, but ultimately I'm not convinced Pace and co. really care as long as they make their thirty pieces of silver. How else can they be selling investment opportunities to others? They must guarantee a return on investment, which won't come out of their pocket, it'll come out of the clubs, even if it means we post greater losses.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I believe Pace put all his trust in Kompany and has thrown everything into backing him, probably in fear that Kompany would threaten to leave if we didn't spend big after promotion (after all, Kompany will be a big part of attracting investment in the first place). This is commendable on some levels, but you shouldn't be doing this at the expense of the long term future of the club, which is what it feels like we've done.

We've gone from an overly cautious approach under Garlick and Dyche, but one that took into account the size and stature of our club AND the need to choose wisely when bringing in new players, to a reckless approach under Pace and Kompany based on future success rather than the here and now. Anyone who genuinely thinks we should be investing £120m on players in one summer needs to give their heads a wobble - especially when none of those players were proven Premier League quality.

The big question now is what happens if they can't turn around players for the right fees? Do we just accept lower offers so we claw back cash or do they double down and go again? Unfortunately I only see this going one way in the longer term. I don't believe Pace or Kompany are right and proper custodians of the club. One has his eye on how he can personally gain from the club financially and the other won't hang around if and when the proverbial hits the fan. We could be in for a bumpy ride.

[forzagranata]

You can take it a step further and apply that to the football club itself.

Did they buy BFC at a cheap price? I don't think so. On the back of 5 consecutive years in the PL with no debts and a huge cash surplus the club was probably at its peak in terms of valuation.

But then again they didn't buy it with their own money so maybe they're not too bothered.

For a group that seem to place an awful lot in buying and selling for profit they don't seem to be very good at it.

They think they bought Burnley at a cheap price.

There has been a strange consensus among American investors in the game that English and European clubs are 'under-valued'.

This seems to be because they compare PL club's values to those of the NFL franchises. But of course there are a ton of reasons why that is a difficult comparison to make.

I suspect that Pace and Co won't be the only Americans to 'discover' that English football clubs are far from 'under-valued'.

[Sheedyclaret]

JJ watt on the latest overlap episode if anyone interested

[JohnMcGreal]

They think they bought Burnley at a cheap price.

There has been a strange consensus among American investors in the game that English and European clubs are 'under-valued'.

This seems to be because they compare PL club's values to those of the NFL franchises. But of course there are a ton of reasons why that is a difficult comparison to make.

I suspect that Pace and Co won't be the only Americans to 'discover' that English football clubs are far from 'under-valued'.

I think a big factor in that mindset that sometimes goes unnoticed is the strength of the US dollar in recent years, especially against the £.

US capital has been snapping up UK companies with that discount priced in so that might explain why ALK thought they were getting the club at a decent price.

[Chester Perry]

They think they bought Burnley at a cheap price.

There has been a strange consensus among American investors in the game that English and European clubs are 'under-valued'.

This seems to be because they compare PL club's values to those of the NFL franchises. But of course there are a ton of reasons why that is a difficult comparison to make.

I suspect that Pace and Co won't be the only Americans to 'discover' that English football clubs are far from 'under-valued'.

this is all true, but what most people are failing to recognise is that ALK/VSL currently hold just over 90% of the shareholding in the club and have likely paid a net sum of less than £60m for that shareholding (after the sale of shares to Vlad Torgovnik) - with only £10m upfront. There are no outstanding payments to be made for shares and most of the former small shareholders will have used their club credit by now.

So in essence, they did by the club cheap and there is plenty of scope for the asset value to grow if the club can keep its place in and around the Premier League, build a multi-club operation onto that (which they now appear to have funds for) and the asset value grow significantly.

Which is what 777 Partners appear to be trying to do at Everton, they need the Premier League team to give their football operation a surge in asset value, then they can flip the whole readymade operation once Bramley Moore is open and make a the profit that they have been looking for.

[Chester Perry]

I think a big factor in that mindset that sometimes goes unnoticed is the strength of the US dollar in recent years, especially against the £.

US capital has been snapping up UK companies with that discount priced in so that might explain why ALK thought they were getting the club at a decent price.

that as helped American buyers enormously

[ClaretPete001]

to many people in the US 10 million is found down the back of the sofa

edit: I've had a look down the back of my sofa and all I found was a stale crisp !

I hope you ate it - waste not want not as me mother used to say....!

I've met the odd millionaires and to be honest with you most were so tight they probably only changed their underpants once a month to save on laundry bills.

[ClaretPete001]

They think they bought Burnley at a cheap price.

There has been a strange consensus among American investors in the game that English and European clubs are 'under-valued'.

This seems to be because they compare PL club's values to those of the NFL franchises. But of course there are a ton of reasons why that is a difficult comparison to make.

I suspect that Pace and Co won't be the only Americans to 'discover' that English football clubs are far from 'under-valued'.

I suppose there are two aspects to this...! The value of the club wasn't cheap per se, which limits what you can do with it in terms of distributing equity etc. And how much you sell it for... Relegation is the big difference between the English football and American sports.

However, as Chester says the value of this deal is in the money that has come out of the clubs bank accounts.

So, if they owe £60 million on it (albeit I sometimes wonder whether the much talked about investments went to pay off the former owners scheduled payments) and there is now huge debt not just to banks but to creditors and on unearned income.

So, whoever walked into the club would have to pay ALK enough to give them a profit. Pay off the loans and meet all the creditors as well as invest in the club.

There is no cash for a leveraged buyout and without investing a £100 million on players what's the point in buying it?

If, as many point out it wasn't much sought after in the first place then the buying to sell option posited by Kieran Macguire doesn't have much traction..

I mean I guess that's we end up at the thick rich American theory because nothing else makes much sense. But I've never been a fan of post hoc it has to be that because nothing else makes sense explanations - it's too easy.

[ClaretPete001]

this is all true, but what most people are failing to recognise is that ALK/VSL currently hold just over 90% of the shareholding in the club and have likely paid a net sum of less than £60m for that shareholding (after the sale of shares to Vlad Torgovnik) - with only £10m upfront. There are no outstanding payments to be made for shares and most of the former small shareholders will have used their club credit by now.

So in essence, they did by the club cheap and there is plenty of scope for the asset value to grow if the club can keep its place in and around the Premier League, build a multi-club operation onto that (which they now appear to have funds for) and the asset value grow significantly.

Which is what 777 Partners appear to be trying to do at Everton, they need the Premier League team to give their football operation a surge in asset value, then they can flip the whole readymade operation once Bramley Moore is open and make a the profit that they have been looking for.

Everton never get relegated so it's probably a much less risky vehicle to base the model on.

Of course, they are now doing their best to do so.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Latest episode out now - a little more accounts chat, Brighton preview plus JJ and Kealia Watt's soccer 7s plans and JJ on Stick to Football!

Out in all the usual places or at https://pod.link/1688380656

[Chester Perry]

Another good one

I will say, on reflection, that I concur with Woody and claretpete on here that there is a danger in people giving what I say to much credence in terms of being absolute truth - particularly when I am not able to produce supporting evidence, though even then others with knowledge and experience have rightly challenged my interpretations even then, on occasion. I encourage everyone to find their own answers to the questions they have, It is something anyone who cares enough needs to learn, that is where I and my understanding came from.

Spot on re JJ Watt, he has been everything you said and is particularly impressive when asked direct questions. It is no wonder he is now the public face of the ownership group, he and his family have been a real godsend to ALK/VSL

With the accounts special proving so popular, it may be worthwhile considering other pods about what is going on in the background and with the ownership - I know you are looking at various things from passing comments in your pods.

I occasionally like to go back to that first press conference Alan Pace gave and consider what he said and contrast it with what we have witnessed so far - though I have been criticised for doing so previously. I think there is opportunity for a series of in depth discussions about the answers he gave that day.

THE PRESS | Alan Pace's First Press Conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbICQT2Vzpc

just look at the first two questions and his responses in the first 3 minutes, there is plenty to pick up on and consider in the light of events since.

First thing to as really, is Why Burnley? 00:15

“Burnley, for us, as we looked around, fit a number of things that we felt important to us long term. Primarily looking at the passion, the operating structure, the opportunity for growth and obviously, you know, the ability for us to have an impact as, you know, a management team and as an organisation and when we looked around at various clubs, one of the things that stood out was that this club in this community is unbelievable. The way that it has: brought it together; the way that it is at the centre of the community; and to be quite honest the longevity of the manager; the ability for him specifically to have punched well above his weight, as far as the team; and the financial stability of the club; and the way that it has been run; all led us to the place that we’ve come to, which is – we thought this is a great opportunity, we think that there is some building blocks here we can actually work with.”

What are those Building Blocks? That you believe stands this club in such good stead to move this club forward from here now? 01:25

"Well, look, you know, I really love if you look at the sport and how important it is in both the country but in the world and the Premier League being obviously the sports league, obviously, you know, that is the greatest sports league in the world, quite frankly in my opinion and that relationship between the community and the club and then that relationship and being able to let people see and feel it. So, there’s, if you look at the way that I think about things there’s kind of two specific pieces: it’s the way you interact with whatever team you support and the way that they interact with you and the things that you see as being critical to that but also the way that they treat people. So, it is really important to us to see that there is a very, very solid historical relationship between fan, community, club. Where you sit in the country and the passion of the game in this part of the in this part of the country, ahm, its not a corporate environment, it’s not a, you know, a a you know, tourism environment, it’s very much live, breathe, die Burnley Football Club"

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Thanks CP! It's definitely our intention to do a few more 'deep dive' type episodes. We're working on getting some experts on different issues/subjects.

I've not revisited his first presser for a while so definitely something to do. Interesting to note that ALK and Pace were being advised by Saatchi and Saatchi at that point.

[Chester Perry]

Thanks CP! It's definitely our intention to do a few more 'deep dive' type episodes. We're working on getting some experts on different issues/subjects.

I've not revisited his first presser for a while so definitely something to do. Interesting to note that ALK and Pace were being advised by Saatchi and Saatchi at that point.

the list of advisor's, consultants etc that the ownership have employed before and since the takeover is seemingly never ending. Many are confused by the oft reported ALK Capital spend of £15m in the initial stage of the takeover as being what they contributed to that initial share-buying activity, though as I have repeatedly stated there has only ever been £10m that can be traced publicly - I have always believed the rest went in fees and commissions to the advisors and consultants to that process, transactions of that nature are costly and complex beasts to put together.