Sub goes Missing

[Lancasterclaret]

Yeah, Christopher Columbus and Captain James Cook were absolute idiots.

Now you are getting just a tiny bit silly don't you think?

[claretcarrot93]

Now you are getting just a tiny bit silly don't you think?

Get that but this is Hamish Harding - Clearly an explorer who knows risk element. Doesn't strike me as an idiot

Hamish Harding[2] (born 24 June 1964) is a UAE-based British businessman, pilot, explorer, and space tourist. He is the founder of Action Group and chairman of Action Aviation, an international aircraft brokerage company with headquarters in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.[3][4][5]

On 9–11 July 2019, Harding was mission director and crew pilot for the flight mission One More Orbit, which set a world speed record for the fastest circumnavigation of Earth by aircraft over both geographic poles.[5][6][7]

Harding is currently missing, having been on a submersible that went missing in the North Atlantic, while en route to view the wreckage of the Titanic, on 18 June 2023.[8]

Biography
In 2017, Harding worked with Antarctic VIP tourism company, White Desert, to introduce the first regular business jet service to the Antarctic using a Gulfstream G550, landing on Wolfs Fang Runway, an ice runway. Harding also visited the South Pole a number of times, accompanying Buzz Aldrin in 2016 as he became the oldest person ever to reach the South Pole (age 86).[9]

On 9-11 July 2019, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing, Harding, along with Terry Virts, led a team of aviators that took the Guinness World Record for circumnavigation of the earth via North and South Poles in a Gulfstream G650ER in 46 hours 40 minutes.[10][11] The One More Orbit mission launched and landed at the Shuttle Landing Facility (Space Florida) at NASA Kennedy Space Center, US. Harding was the mission director and led a team of over 100. On 5 March 2021, Harding and Victor Vescovo dived to the deepest point of the Mariana Trench, the Challenger Deep at a depth of 36,000 feet (11,000 m), in a two-man submarine, setting the records for greatest length covered and greatest time spent at full ocean depth.[12][13][14][15][7]

Harding flew to space as part of the Blue Origin NS-21 mission, on 4 June 2022, one of six astronauts the fifth human spaceflight aboard the New Shepard rocket.[2][16][17][18][19][20]

In September 2022, Harding's aviation company Action Aviation, supplied a customised Boeing 747-400 aircraft to transport eight wild cheetahs from Namibia to India to launch the reintroduction of the cheetah to India project of the Indian Government and the Cheetah Conservation Fund in Namibia (CCF). Cheetahs had been extinct in India since independence in 1947.[21] This conservation project was designated a "flagged expedition" by the Explorers Club with club members Harding and Laurie Marker, founder of the CCF, carrying the flag on the flight to India.[22][23]

[ClaretDiver]

I don’t think we can start deciding who should be rescued and who shouldn’t. Do we not rescue anyone who is doing leisure activities on the sea? Divers, swimmers, fishing trips etc. I understand , given the money involved that you’d feel this way and I agree that they should do the right thing and fund the rescue via their insurance or own pocket. Just hope they can get them out.

I’m not for one minute suggesting they don’t get saved BUT there has to be accountability of you are undertaking something that has a major inherent risk such as going 2 miles under the sea on a submarine that has not got any sign off as safe by any regulatory body or has a waiver that mentions death three times. Similar to the idiot recently who was going to sail across the ocean on a homemade boat and sank I. The harbour and had to be rescued!

I have to have insurance for diving…

[Pearcey]

Now you are getting just a tiny bit silly don't you think?

I think having a chip on your shoulder because these people who wanted an adventure are billionaires is a bit silly.

As I’ve posted already lots of people do things that are dangerous every day in the spirit of adventure. Doesn’t make them idiots.

[claretcarrot93]

Thats the point, he is doing something he loves doing, exploring. Does not make him an idiot because something went wrong doing something dangerous.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think having a chip on your shoulder because these people who wanted an adventure are billionaires is a bit silly.

As I’ve posted already lots of people do things that are dangerous every day in the spirit of adventure. Doesn’t make them idiots.

And we could go round in circles about what constitutes "useful risk" and what constitutes "useless risk"

If it helps, more than happy to not call them idiots!

[claretcarrot93]

And we could go round in circles about what constitutes "useful risk" and what constitutes "useless risk"

If it helps, more than happy to not call them idiots!

To be fair thats true and i guess its all relative depending on the person

[Pearcey]

And we could go round in circles about what constitutes "useful risk" and what constitutes "useless risk"

If it helps, more than happy to not call them idiots!

I respect your opinion LC but I’m genuinely fascinated with people that love an adventure. It takes you away briefly from the serious issues in the world, for which after reading your views, they appear to be very similar to mine.

[Lancasterclaret]

I respect your opinion LC but I’m genuinely fascinated with people that love an adventure. It takes you away briefly from the serious issues in the world, for which after reading your views, they appear to be very similar to mine.

Oh I completely agree that adventurers make the world a better place and give us all a buzz from what they achieve

This is like the people who pay to go up in the space ships that Musk/Bezos build though, its something that you need an awful amount of spare cash to do, and its not like its not been done before or gets my heart racing

I'd love to dive on war wrecks for example, but I know that I'd be diving on what are essentially war graves, and I wouldn't do it because of that - this seems far to like that for my liking

Does that make sense?

(having admitted on diving on a wreck in Turkey (not a war wreck though, and one that sank at anchor in a storm)

[Clovius Boofus]

Yeah, Christopher Columbus and Captain James Cook were absolute idiots.

Don't be daft. How can those names be comparable to a bunch of tourists in a submersible. By all means, argue for the spirt of adventure, but don't bring the ridiculous into this. It does your POV no good whatsoever and make it look like you are trolling.

[Pearcey]

Don't be daft. How can those names be comparable to a bunch of tourists in a submersible. By all means, argue for the spirt of adventure, but don't bring the ridiculous into this. It does your POV no good whatsoever and make it look like you are trolling.

OK. I assume you haven’t read the rest of the posts then.

[clarets12]

There's a "drop weight" that can be released to bring it to the surface. I'm surprised there wasn't a way made so they could then at that point open a section at the top from within.

[BurnleyFC]

Its the stuff of nightmares really, I have anxiety just thinking about being in that thing.

There's nothing more dangerous than the ocean

You never went in The Forester’s, then?

[Sutton-Claret]

Wasn't this sub the reason the initial surviving sailors on the Kursk couldn't be rescued in time, as the Russians had diverted it to tourist duties?

May be totally wrong, if so advanced apologies.

The sub that went to try to rescue the Russians was the LR5 - owned by the Royal Navy. The Russians refused any outside help until it was too late..... I worked on the design and build of the LR5 replacement, the LR7 in Kirbymoorside (North Yorkshire) - these are bigger subs than the tourist one thats gone missing, 3 crew and 19 rescued seamen. I was in one for about 5 mins in dry dock and it wasn't pleasant.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I mean:

CBS reporter David Pogue reported that a waiver described the submersible as an "experimental" vessel, "that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death".

I think "daft" is being kind. Its not like they would see anything that hasn't already been documented. It was a thoroughly ill-advised ego trip of an endeavor, and its gone, not unexpectedly, tits up.

[warksclaret]

Its the stuff of nightmares really, I have anxiety just thinking about being in that thing.

There's nothing more dangerous than the ocean

Fully understand your thoughts and fears-I am the same, particularly as my son is in the RN (nuclear submarines)

[Foshiznik]

I mean:



I think "daft" is being kind. Its not like they would see anything that hasn't already been documented. It was a thoroughly ill-advised ego trip of an endeavor, and its gone, not unexpectedly, tits up.

Paul-Henry Nargeolet is on board too and is the foremost expert on HMS Titanic. Yes it might be experimental but it appears to me in Nargeolet's view, it was the sense of adventure and uncovering more to top up his lifetime's subject of work.

[ClaretDiver]

Of course, I've scuba dived in Turkey (where health and safety are very clearly optional) - ended up with me and the instructor sharing a respirator on the top of sunken wreck as my air tank ran dry

Truly hoping you reported this as that should NEVER happen…

Christ on a bike if it ever did where I worked then that instructor would never ever work in the industry again!

[Lancasterclaret]

Truly hoping you reported this as that should NEVER happen…

Christ on a bike if it ever did where I worked then that instructor would never ever work in the industry again!

Report it to who though!

We knew what we were doing as we knew from watching people do it in Egypt and St Lucia that you needed to do a proper course and we never got around to it

Took a risk because I'd always wanted to do it - box ticked!

(appreciate the post though as you are quite correct!)

[Bosscat]

Of course, I've scuba dived in Turkey (where health and safety are very clearly optional) - ended up with me and the instructor sharing a respirator on the top of sunken wreck as my air tank ran dry

I guess its just from my perception, this sounds like rich people on a jolly, while Nimsdal Purja (as someone who climbs mountains I'd love to climb) is a hero

I`ve dived twice in Turkey (taste of Scuba type of dives 4 people with 4 PADI instructors one on one) never had a problem either time ... fantastic experience both times. Health and safety was paramount with the company we went with, hence on our next holiday went with them again and again it was a great experience.

[Lancasterclaret]

I`ve dived twice in Turkey (taste of Scuba type of dives 4 people with 4 PADI instructors one on one) never had a problem either time ... fantastic experience both times. Health and safety was paramount with the company we went with, hence on our next holiday went with them again and again it was a great experience.

Our instruction was us using scuba equipment in a swimming pool and a cursory chat on the boat on how to go up and down with your buoyancy

On a bog standard holiday and just grabbed the chance to do it

[Burnley1989]

Fully understand your thoughts and fears-I am the same, particularly as my son is in the RN (nuclear submarines)

I assume that will be the Vanguard subs which are quite old now, I have done a little work around the build of Astute and the new Dreadnaught subs (contractor rather than BAE Employee) but never at sea only in Central Yard and Devonshire Dock hall.
submarines like aircraft are such impressive engineering feats, I can stand in awe of the sheer size for hours.

[aggi]

Apparently even if it gets to the surface they can't get out, as it is bolted from the outside.

I wonder why this is. You'd think the pressure would be such that the door would be forced closed as you got further down so there wouldn't be that much of a risk in having the door bolts on the inside.

[warksclaret]

I assume that will be the Vanguard subs which are quite old now, I have done a little work around the build of Astute and the new Dreadnaught subs (contractor rather than BAE Employee) but never at sea only in Central Yard and Devonshire Dock hall.
submarines like aircraft are such impressive engineering feats, I can stand in awe of the sheer size for hours.

He has been on HMS Audacious

[timshorts]

I’m saying for whatever the reason people will do things that they know are incredibly dangerous in the spirit of adventure. Doesn’t make them idiots in my opinion.

There again, it is a grave, where hundreds of people gave their lives when the tub went down. Their bodies are still there. Yet people want to pay a stack of cash To go down and do a bit of ogling.

It may have been "an adventure", but it's a bit sick, really. It seems worse because of its recency.

[clarets12]

I only caught some of it on the BBC earlier that the 5 people onboard might not yet even be aware they are being searched for and unaware of any problems.

[ClaretDiver]

Report it to who though!

We knew what we were doing as we knew from watching people do it in Egypt and St Lucia that you needed to do a proper course and we never got around to it

Took a risk because I'd always wanted to do it - box ticked!

(appreciate the post though as you are quite correct!)

. Fair enough, it would depend on who the agency was that the dive centre was affiliated to! If you ever want another crack then give me a shout I can take you to a lovely quarry in Cumbria!! Lol

Also please don’t think it was a jib at you, it just infuriates me when I see dive centres breaking rules and taking chances and risks….

[ClaretDiver]

I only caught some of it on the BBC earlier that the 5 people onboard might not yet even be aware they are being searched for and unaware of any problems.

I would suggest at this point they will be aware of a problem…whether under water or on the surface…

[clarets12]

I would suggest at this point they will be aware of a problem…whether under water or on the surface…

Likely, but apparently not guaranteed. If all that's happened is the signal is failing to be sent back every 15 minutes, or however long it is, then it could be simply that which is the issue.

[Lancasterclaret]

. Fair enough, it would depend on who the agency was that the dive centre was affiliated to! If you ever want another crack then give me a shout I can take you to a lovely quarry in Cumbria!! Lol

Also please don’t think it was a jib at you, it just infuriates me when I see dive centres breaking rules and taking chances and risks….

No bother at all, you are just being professional

My swimming has really fallen off a cliff a fair bit since then so thanks for the offer but no!

[ClaretDiver]

No bother at all, you are just being professional

My swimming has really fallen off a cliff a fair bit since then so thanks for the offer but no!

Lol!! No bother mate!

[California Colner]

It’s an awful story.

Hope by some miracle it ends well.

As an aside California Colner - are you in California or Colne?

I’m in LA area
Santa Clarita

[Elbarad]

Likely, but apparently not guaranteed. If all that's happened is the signal is failing to be sent back every 15 minutes, or however long it is, then it could be simply that which is the issue.

They don't expect to regularly be in communication with the surface?

[ClaretDiver]

There again, it is a grave, where hundreds of people gave their lives when the tub went down. Their bodies are still there. Yet people want to pay a stack of cash To go down and do a bit of ogling.

It may have been "an adventure", but it's a bit sick, really. It seems worse because of its recency.

See, and before anyone has a go at me this is just my opinion, I don’t see the passengers of the Titanic as ‘giving their lives’

The majority paid a lot of money to travel in opulence at the cost to the steerage class who wanted to better their lives. I agree it is a grave but to compare the unfortunate customs of this accident to the men who genuinely ‘gave their lives’ during wars is doing them a disservice, again in my opinion.

[claptrappers_union]

There again, it is a grave, where hundreds of people gave their lives when the tub went down. Their bodies are still there. Yet people want to pay a stack of cash To go down and do a bit of ogling.

It may have been "an adventure", but it's a bit sick, really. It seems worse because of its recency.

Everywhere is 'a grave' though.

[dibraidio]

I would suggest at this point they will be aware of a problem…whether under water or on the surface…

On a dive that was supposed to last 8 hours I think we can pretty much conclude that they're well aware that there has been an issue.

[claretburns]

They don't expect to regularly be in communication with the surface?

"Radio waves cannot travel far underwater and cannot be used for underwater communications. Instead, the communication system for the submersible uses sound waves.

The concept is similar to using sonar instead of radar to detect objects underwater."

Above from an expert via BBC.

[ClaretDiver]

On a dive that was supposed to last 8 hours I think we can pretty much conclude that they're well aware that there has been an issue.

Agreed! Awful scenario and can’t even imagine what is going through their minds, if they are even still alive! I do hope they are found but it is increasingly unlikely at this point in time

[clarets12]

They don't expect to regularly be in communication with the surface?

Someone was asked on the BBC whether the 5 men crew will be aware and the way he sounded, made it come across that it wasn't an absolute certainty.

[claretburns]

Report on BBC saying that the sub has weights it can release to come back to the surface, however if there is an issue in releasing the weights then overtime these weights should naturally dissolve in the water meaning the sub will come back to the surface, but by the time of the weights have dissolved the oxygen supply will have long run out.

[Lowbankclaret]

This sub has apparently done around 30 trips to the wreak.
Really sad it’s had an issue.
Let’s hope it gets back to the surface soon.

[ClaretDiver]

A lot of stories now coming out that do not paint OceanGate (the sub operators) in a very good light!

[Clovius Boofus]

A lot of stories now coming out that do not paint OceanGate (the sub operators) in a very good light!

What are they basically saying?

[Lip]

Seems like something out of a Clive Cussler novel. Hope they can find them in time.

[wilks_bfc]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65969476

“Banging noises” have been heard by those searching for them

[ClaretDiver]

What are they basically saying?

A lot of stories coming out about safety etc, the CEO effectively sacked a senior director for trying to insist that the sub was independently inspected prior to launch amongst other things

[ebby]

My first job in Australia over forty- years ago was working on the Oberon Class subs. Flanges were blued and scraped, then bolted face to face; no gaskets. Also stripped down Kingston Valves.
No dot punching or chisel marks to relocate, they were then assembled in dust proof room. Whilst this was going on naval inspectors were walking around all the time mentioning do a good job as peoples lives depend on it!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Bizarre subplot to this is the stepson of one of the billionaires going to the Blink 182 gig because his family would want him to and also tweeting that he's still single

[Jjjack]

Bizarre subplot to this is the stepson of one of the billionaires going to the Blink 182 gig because his family would want him to and also tweeting that he's still single

Apparently he threatened to kill everybody at an Illenium concert last year and was arrested for stalking DJs.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/british-resc ... 07193.html
If true this is terrible.