An article in one of this weekend's papers reports the conversion of an "alley way" in Moss Side, Manchester into a garden. Growing up in Burnley, this was called the back street, not an alley way. A snicket or ginnel was a narrow path, usually a short cut, but another commentator in the same paper thinks the four descriptions are interchangeable and describe the same feature. But I think a snicket or ginnel describes pedestrian access only, back streets are wide enough for a vehicle, and an alley can either be vehicle access or pedestrian depending on the width. Any thoughts?

Always known the path in Long Preston as "The Snicket" in Settle theres one called "The Ginnel" both pedestrian short cuts

A ginnel is a narrow pedestrian path in an urban area with the sole purpose of connecting two areas.

A back street is the shared area behind a row of houses.

An alley is a generalised term, like a hot tub rather than a type of hot tub such as a jaccuzi. You wouldn't go to a party and throw some balls down the bowling ginnel.

A snicket doesn't exist.

Or that's my opinion at least

I always think a ginnel has to have buildings on both sides, not hedges or gardens.

As a young lad I used to play cricket with another colleague at work in our bank vaults in Manchester.
The work team cricket stuff was kept down there and the space between the aisles in the vaults was perfect length for a cricket wicket
……..I accept that this could be difficult to offer this facility to the wider public !!

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:47 am

An alley is a generalised term, like a hot tub rather than a type of hot tub such as a jaccuzi. You wouldn't go to a party and throw some balls down the bowling ginnel.

I've always assumed that the term alley comes form the French "allée",which is one of their words for avenue.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:52 am

I always think a ginnel has to have buildings on both sides, not hedges or gardens.

As someone born in Burnley but raised in Todmorden, it's always been a snicket to me.

Back street, alley way, ginnel, snicket.....
You're listening to the boy from the big bad city
This is jam hot
This is jam hot

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:55 am

I've always assumed that the term alley comes form the French "allée",which is one of their words for avenue.

Good spot. I'd wondered whether it was something to do with allez, meaning to go, I think. Allée makes more sense.

Going down the bowling avenue has a nice ring to it.

Two separate things.
Back street/ alley way are interchangeable to me but imperative is a back door entrance into the yards of properties.
Ginnel/Snicket were as Bosscat has posted.
A ginnel a thoroughfare between properties, in Scotland a Close, occasionally with a roof over. A Snicket outdoors between hedging or fencing.

Ginnel.

Snicket.

Back in the day, if my Grandad saw someone who was bow legged he'd say "yon mon couldn't stop a pig in a ginnel. He'd be called out for body shaming now!

Ginnel. And I have one between my house and the house next door, it's a narrow passageway that separates the ground floors of the two houses while the floors above are attached. So I'm an expert.

It was used to access the back houses in a back-to-back terrace.

Ginnel

Sninnel...

Snickets are a bit lemony anyway

Snicket Boys.....no
Ginnel Boys......no
Alley Boys........no
It's BACKSTREET BOYS! Case closed

Search snickelways of York online

Croydon Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:30 pm

Snickets are a bit lemony anyway

I thought they were full of Nougat, Caramel & Peanuts.

Oooooohhhh hang on thats "Snickers"

Ginnel is between buildings.

Snicket is between trees, bushes, hedges etc.

Back street is between rows of terraced houses.

Alley is always American to me.

Opes in Plymouth.


And a second forum, all about unusual street name suffixes, had this information: "Plymouth has a lot of Opes, presumably short for opening. "These are ginnels or single track roads between two buildings and usually share the same name as the minor road running behind the properties."8 Jun 2019

Just to add a new word to the list. Mrs DC is from Sussex and always refers to a narrow path near us as a 'twitten.'

https://letslearnslang.com/slang-words- ... %20England.

Who'da thowt it

Twitten
Jitty
Wynd
Etc etc etc

"Couldn't hit a pig in a ginnel!"

In London, according to Mrs C, they only have one word for an alley. Strangely enough that word is!" alley"

Ginnel, snicket, back street, alley - all called alley.

How did we ever win the war?

Tw@ wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:42 pm

Search snickelways of York online

Yes, we have a copy of Mark W. Jones "A Walk Around the Snickelways of York". A great way to find hidden York away from the tourist traps. Our copy dates from 1993, don't know if it's still in print, but there are copies on eBay.

Pickles wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:50 pm

Ginnel is between buildings.

Snicket is between trees, bushes, hedges etc.

Back street is between rows of terraced houses.

Alley is always American to me.

That's a spot on interpretation.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:05 am

Screenshot_20230724_110559_Chrome.jpg

Well you learn something every day, even at our age. We have always called any narrow passage a ginnel in our family, whether it was between buildings or gardens or a combination of both. I always thought snicket was an alternative term and was never aware they were defined as 2 different things.

People who have bow legs can't stop pig in a ginnel.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:11 pm

That's a spot on interpretation.

Thanks! I teach English to students from all over the world and they love weird little stuff like this.

In Scotland a Ginnell is also called a vennel from the old French venele apparently

The following extract is taken from The 1901 edition of the Folk-Speech of South Lancashire: GINNEL. A straight street; a narrow passage. T.B.; an entry; a passage between two houses. Note: Words marked T.B are used by John Collier, "Tim Bobbin" 1746. (John Collier b 18 December 1708 – 14 July 1786 was an English caricaturist and satirical poet known by the pseudonym of Tim Bobbin, or Timothy Bobbin). A View of the Lancashire Dialect, or, Tummus and Mary, appeared in 1746, and is the earliest significant piece of Lancashire dialect to be published.

I lived in Nottingham for a few years late 70s/ early 80s. There a ginnel is a twitchel.
Probably one of those words that vary a lot between different areas of the country.

When I was in a library once c 50 years ago I remember browsing a book that mapped out a few such words across Britain. The only one I remember was the word that kids use when they want a break from a game (truce word). When I grew up in Burnley, that word was "barley" but there were about a dozen such in different areas.
I just googled this https://glossophilia.org/2016/04/fains- ... uce-terms/

I presume "barley" is still used in Burnley??

Growing up in Buxton in the 70s, a snicket was either (with British EE diphthong) or either (with the British AI diphthong) called a ginnel, gennel or jennel....

BBC Breakfast covering this topic right now.