Total disgrace tonight, rigged from start to finish.
Scandalous.

Operation help Everton starts early.

I thought it was just ne that has that view. There are fixes at play.

I'd want that given has handball at the other end, the sending off he had no real option. He's still a prick though !

Absolute disgrace,The Var decision against Sander was ridiculous,as Don Goodman said,it would never ever have been given had it been a defender doing same thing in the area.

Fuming

Scandalous this was daylight robbery by that self abuser England on var

Goal would have stood for any of the ‘big’ clubs.

Wonder if those 2 lost points will relegate us. Hope not but who knows. One thing for sure I’d we can’t get em back

Look, I'm all for kicking folk in the nuts, but Manchester United had a goal ruled out this week, at Old Trafford, against Brighton.

Also - just for FYI purposes - what has England on VAR done and, more to the point, what is a self abuser?!

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:48 pm

I'd want that given has handball at the other end, the sending off he had no real option. He's still a prick though !

Yes but I'd have wanted that given at the other end even if it had hit a Forest player on the head, doesn't make it the correct decision though.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:19 am

Wonder if those 2 lost points will relegate us. Hope not but who knows. One thing for sure I’d we can’t get em back

Way to go with that positive thinking!

Goody1975 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:33 am

Yes but I'd have wanted that given at the other end even if it had hit a Forest player on the head, doesn't make it the correct decision though.

I never said it was, in fact I have done the opposite all the way along (as far as I remember!) The main thing for me is there is no way at all they can tell where on the arm it hits him, there is no way they can tell if it's deliberate and the thing that pisses me off more than anything is they don't give a penalty and send McKenna off because without him trying to hug Berge the ball wouldn't hit Berge. VAR is shite and Knob Jones is exactly that

I thought the decision first time round when i saw it that the goal would stand but soon as ref went to monitor i knew it would get chalked of and that is what we are up against if it was a top 6 team goal would have stood, for me VAR is still not working properly and i have never been in favour of it .

distortiondave wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:29 am

Look, I'm all for kicking folk in the nuts, but Manchester United had a goal ruled out this week, at Old Trafford, against Brighton.

Where the ball went miles out of play? They couldn’t not disallow it. Very different.

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:34 am

Where the ball went miles out of play? They couldn’t not disallow it. Very different.

This - the United decision was one of objectivity. When subjectivity comes into play, that’s when it gets absolutely appalling. As it did last night.

Under the current laws which were amended for this season the Berge incident simply isn't handball, it really is the simple

distortiondave wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:29 am

Look, I'm all for kicking folk in the nuts, but Manchester United had a goal ruled out this week, at Old Trafford, against Brighton.

The one that was disallowed at OT was because the ball was out of play ,nothing contentious about it.

distortiondave wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:29 am

Look, I'm all for kicking folk in the nuts, but Manchester United had a goal ruled out this week, at Old Trafford, against Brighton.

Because you could literally see the ball was out of play, nothing controversial about that one, is rashford does what berge does on Saturday, it’s not being given as handball

Strange that you've mentioned the ball going clearly out of play at Old Trafford against Brighton as a means of comparison - Why not Onana cleaning out a Wolves player in the penalty area in the most blatant penalty decision you could ever see the other week? You're kidding yourself if you think that decision last night isn't given as a goal if we were Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc. Subjectivity reigns supreme in this league and is heavily weighted against the have-nots. It was ever thus.

That would suggest that there are corrupt owners involved, are you suggesting that say, the Forest owner is potentially dodgy? I mean seriously...

The premier league only has the money it does due to tv money abroad and merchandise fans from across the world buy, and for that money to still come in, it needs the big teams to do well or the product wouldn’t be worth as much money. Every decision made from amount of subs, squad lists, var decisions to tv games is all for the big clubs

It isn't corrupt, that's just silly but one day a story will break about a Referee taking payments from an unofficial source or betting on the outcome of matches.

That is when the conspiracy theorists can have their day!

Inept yes. Corrupt? To what end exactly?

It is crazy to think it's corrupt. Sorry to those who do, but it really is.

There is bias of course, we all know that. But if you genuinely think the referees are all collaborating so that Burnley can only get a point at Forest, and only if the should-be winning goal has a marginal claim for handball against it, it's time to give your head a wobble.

Bias is the correct word, not corrupt. It’s innately, obviously, and supremely full of objective bias in the subjective moments.

Unfortunately the introduction of VAR inevitably leads to people questioning the integrity of the officials.

Before VAR, the ref and his assistants got one look at an incident in real time. Sometimes they got it right, sometimes they didn't. But when they did get it wrong you could give them the benefit of the doubt.

It's not as easy now, so when they're still making a hash of things and getting decisions wrong despite having multiple angels and views, people will naturally think there's something more than just incompetence at play, rightly or wrongly.

Personally I think it needs to be completely stripped back to basics. A referee, two assistants and goal line technology (which is indisputable and not down to someone's interpretation).

To say it’s corrupt is just ridiculous. Bias? In my opinion, yes. Probably borne out of weak refs feeling the pressure at ‘big clubs’ from aggressively complaining high-profile players and managers.

Referee Rob Jones from list night is from Merseyside, if and it’s a big IF he is an Everton fan, he would shouldn’t be anywhere near a game with any teams in the bottom half in

I agree there’s an inherent bias in decision making towards the big clubs as well as the home team.

This isn’t corruption, we’ve been on the right side of these sort of decisions plenty of times.

I remember Vokes blatantly handballing in the buildup to the winning goal against the then current PL champions at the Turf, which stood.

VAR causes confusion and argument every week. At least when we (Burnley) were in the Championship we didn't have that problem.

In this particular situation, because the 'Handball' was not by the scorer, it has to be deliberate to rule out the goal. Therefore, why did the refereee not book Sander Berge for 'Deliberate hand ball'? They mess about interpreting the laws using VAR but ignore the basic rules all the time.

Time to do away with VAR and stick to the basics. VAR has ruined the ability to instantly celebrate when a goal has been scored. Now, we have all to wait five minutes or sometimes more, to find out if a goal will stand while every move in the build up is disected. Ridiculous.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:00 am

Referee Rob Jones from list night is from Merseyside, if and it’s a big IF he is an Everton fan, he would shouldn’t be anywhere near a game with any teams in the bottom half in

And conversely if he is a Liverpool fan, he shouldn't be reffing anyone in the top half?

He isn't a fan of anyone. He's a referee. You might as well tell a player who used to be an Everton fan that he shouldn't play in games involving anyone in the bottom half in case he's biased.

Gordaleman wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:46 am

VAR causes confusion and argument every week. At least when we (Burnley) were in the Championship we didn't have that problem.

In this particular situation, because the 'Handball' was not by the scorer, it has to be deliberate to rule out the goal. Therefore, why did the refereee not book Sander Berge for 'Deliberate hand ball'? They mess about interpreting the laws using VAR but ignore the basic rules all the time.

Because deliberate handball isn't a bookable offence. Maybe get the basic rules right before criticising.

''VAR has ruined the ability to instantly celebrate when a goal has been scored. Now, we have all to wait five minutes or sometimes more, to find out if a goal will stand while every move in the build up is disected. Ridiculous''

I find myself not really celebrating now, previously I'd look across at the linesman for a split second then know I could enjoy the celebrations.
Now you just feel a clown when it goes to VAR and you have to sit back down with your tail between your legs, its certainly taken that enjoyment away which is why we all go.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:53 am

Because deliberate handball isn't a bookable offence. Maybe get the basic rules right before criticising.

I always thought it was as well to be fair

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:53 am

Because deliberate handball isn't a bookable offence. Maybe get the basic rules right before criticising.

Well if it isn't, it should be. I've just had a look at the laws regarding handball and they are as clear as mud. Probably deliberately so, so that they can be interpreteded by officials in favour of certain teams.

Gordaleman wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:03 pm

...the laws regarding handball and they are as clear as mud. Probably deliberately so, so that they can be interpreteded by officials in favour of certain teams.

As I noted on another thread, in the grand scheme of things, that favouritism/bias is to the financial benefit of ALL teams in the EPL, indeed the sport as a whole. It's not something new (VAR just provides another layer/oppotunity to 'tweak' results) and nobody is going to rock the boat enough to upset it, so that isn't going to change; as supporters you learn to live with it or instead watch professional wrestling/formula 1 car racing instead.

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:16 pm

As I noted on another thread, in the grand scheme of things, that favouritism/bias is to the financial benefit of ALL teams in the EPL, indeed the sport as a whole. It's not something new (VAR just provides another layer/oppotunity to 'tweak' results) and nobody is going to rock the boat enough to upset it, so that isn't going to change; as supporters you learn to live with it or instead watch professional wrestling/formula 1 car racing instead.

I've been watching Burnley for 72 years. I'm not about to change to another sport now.

VAR has ruined the spontaneous celebration that we all used to have. Now we have to bite our fingernails for five minutes to see if VAR messes things up. Which it often does.

Not corrupt. Just absolutely useless.

SydneyClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:49 pm

Not corrupt. Just absolutely useless.

Jon Moss was useless Rob Jones is next level dodgy.

You knew soon as Trafford was booked so early in the game instead of just being warned that the ref wasn't going to be fair. How many time wasters are there in this league, specially the big clubs FFS, wake up refs stop accepting the brown envelopes and do your bloody job properly.

Refs and Linos give instant decisions in the Championship, yet hardly anyone spends the night dismantling their decisions.

Perhaps they're actually getting most of it right.

dsr wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:51 am

And conversely if he is a Liverpool fan, he shouldn't be reffing anyone in the top half?

He isn't a fan of anyone. He's a referee. You might as well tell a player who used to be an Everton fan that he shouldn't play in games involving anyone in the bottom half in case he's biased.

Refs are still fans of football teams, they aren’t allowed to ref the team they support, you can’t think just because they are a ref they don’t support a team

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:48 pm

I'd want that given has handball at the other end, the sending off he had no real option. He's still a prick though !

Do you think they would have sent Mo Salad of for that? Most likely have given both yellow cards>….

Some dodgy decisions are debatable, some are clearly wrong.
Refs need to be accountable, we have seen some refs sent down for a few weeks for errors. It isn't enough, in any walk of life there are consequences for bad workmanship, retraining or ultimately the sack. I'm not suggesting these idiots get sacked, but they need punishing more than 'who's a naughty boy'.
With the aid of VAR there is no excuse for making these errors. Every pundit said it was wrong, Forest players didn't appeal, even their fans say it was wrong. It situations like this they shouldn't officiate above league 1 for a couple of seasons.
The PGMOL or whatever its called has to decide if it supports integrity or referees, it can't do both.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:02 pm

Some dodgy decisions are debatable, some are clearly wrong.
Refs need to be accountable, we have seen some refs sent down for a few weeks for errors. It isn't enough, in any walk of life there are consequences for bad workmanship, retraining or ultimately the sack. I'm not suggesting these idiots get sacked, but they need punishing more than 'who's a naughty boy'.
With the aid of VAR there is no excuse for making these errors. Every pundit said it was wrong, Forest players didn't appeal, even their fans say it was wrong. It situations like this they shouldn't officiate above league 1 for a couple of seasons.
The PGMOL or whatever its called has to decide if it supports integrity or referees, it can't do both.

I'm sure telling referees they could lose their full time job if they make one bad mistake would improve the standard and open up the talent pool.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:09 pm

I'm sure telling referees they could lose their full time job if they make one bad mistake would improve the standard and open up the talent pool.

It would help them call decisions honestly. I don't think VAR made a mistake last night. I believe he knew it was a goal but deliberately got it wrong.
It's hard to prove that, but when every man and his dog says it was a good goal, he has some explaining to do.

The ref should be struck off and everyone involved in the VAR team and the ref should be under investigation for deliberate cheating or corruption. Last night was a complete joke and a travesty. VAR generally stinks the way it is being operated but last night was the absolute all time low.

Stockbrokerbelt wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:57 pm

Do you think they would have sent Mo Salad of for that? Most likely have given both yellow cards>….

most likely they would have awarded him a penalty

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:13 pm

It would help them call decisions honestly. I don't think VAR made a mistake last night. I believe he knew it was a goal but deliberately got it wrong.
It's hard to prove that, but when every man and his dog says it was a good goal, he has some explaining to do.

The VAR man saw it as his job to disallow the goal if he possibly could, and by slowing it down to frame-by-frame action he found a way to do it. And by the sound of what he was telling the proper ref, the VAR ref seemed to believe he was the more important person and had the right to give orders to the actual referee. No cheating, just a matter of going into it with a wrong mindset.

The rugby union VAR seems to work the same way. There is a lot to be learned from the way rugby league do it.