has the potential to be an absolute stroke of genius, has the potential to be a total disaster - it puts a lot of faith in VAR because a player will ALWAYS be standing in front of the keeper and will always be offside 100% of the time whilst blocking his movement and view.

Discuss....

It’s just pitiful defending - nothing else

It needs to change quickly.

Big lack of height at the back for aerial challenges and we all know it.

Vino blanco wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:45 pm

It needs to change quickly.

Why ? Every single header on goal will catch players offside and in front of the keeper because they crowd him. It has potential to be an absolute stroke of genius if VAR apply the rules

Zonal marking at corners is the absolute worst.

It can allow an attacker to be running at full pelt into a ‘zone’ jumping for a header whilst the defender is completely flat footed.

At least when it’s man to man defence if an attacker beats a defender then it’s on him.

The only players in zone for me should be on the front/back post and maybe one around the edge of the box

Those three unmarked players in front of the keeper can’t be offside from a corner. The keeper needs protection.

We’ve always struggled at corners since Dyche went to be fair

I dread corners-there is absolutely no protection for Trafford.Forest had 3 spare forwards at the back Monday and fluffed it an easy goal. We were so lucky Johnie Evans goal was ruled out We are all over the place-don't we have a set piece coach

4 players on the keeper and 4 players on the edge of the area every time. 10 Burnley players in the middle.

Im generally pleased with the performance tonight, we’re improving each week- I think if Foster plays we win tonight. Not a negative dig but when we take a corner it’s as if we have taken one before, we have absolute no threat.

Vino blanco wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:50 pm

Those three unmarked players in front of the keeper can’t be offside from a corner. The keeper needs protection.

they aren't offside from the corner, they are offside from every single header on goal - that's the point. The tactic is so utterly bizarre there has to be a reason for it - one of the best CB's the PL has ever seen doesn't just decide not to mark at corners........

edit: just to add, we didn't set up like this at all last season, we now have VAR and I genuinely cannot find another reason for the change

WE seem to be employing the old short corner routine that we supposedly perfected about 50 years ago. It was a waste of a corner then (except once and hence repeated endlessly.) There were ample opportunities for taking corners in the 'traditional way' and yet we never looked comfortable until we went back to putting some pressure on the opposition defenders.
It makes you wonder if there is any training in how best to take a corner.

Got to deal better at set pieces especially we Play the likes of Sheffield utd.

We lack presence and inches at corners.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:01 am

We lack presence and inches at corners.

And that was highlighted last night. Trafford was flapping on anything in the air.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:01 am

We lack presence and inches at corners.

So the least you can do is defend in numbers and don't leave your keeper exposed with three/four of the opposition given all the space around him

Absolutely disastrous tactic from Kompany

It's a shame Dyche didn't leave his notes lying around when he went. We were excellent at corners when attacking or defending them then but looked dodgy at the back since and don't look like we'd score if we took 100 of them this season. It's all part of the learning curve tho

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:54 pm

they aren't offside from the corner, they are offside from every single header on goal - that's the point. The tactic is so utterly bizarre there has to be a reason for it - one of the best CB's the PL has ever seen doesn't just decide not to mark at corners........

edit: just to add, we didn't set up like this at all last season, we now have VAR and I genuinely cannot find another reason for the change

I wondered if it was a tactic associated with VAR last night too. It requires defenders to do what is not natural and leave the goal line unprotected.

Relying on VAR when it has shown itself to be unreliable - I know it wasn't a corner but Watkins for Cash's Villa goal gets allowed but another one in some other game in a pretty similar situation is penalised - is taking big risks. It paid off last night - although in fact it was a foul anyway but that seems to have been ignored, as it often is.

Whether it was a tactic last night or we just got lucky I can't say but there is surely a case for it to become one. It solves the problem of blocking the goalkeeper which is a constant issue, not only for us.

Interesting discussion given we have not conceded a single goal from a corner yet?

Are we expecting a little too much if we're reliant on VAR saving us from conceding goals at corners?

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:17 am

So the least you can do is defend in numbers and don't leave your keeper exposed with three/four of the opposition given all the space around him

Absolutely disastrous tactic from Kompany

Surely that is what made them offside?

beddie wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:14 am

And that was highlighted last night. Trafford was flapping on anything in the air.

Dodgy keeper?

If it is a "tactic", it's definitely playing with fire.

It'll take teams about 2 minutes to cotton on and before you know it, there'll be 3 players all of a sudden onside against a lone goalkeeper

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:39 am

Are we expecting a little too much if we're reliant on VAR saving us from conceding goals at corners?

I rather suspect the OP wasn't particularly serious with that suggestion.
If they were, well, like you, it seems to me rather bizarre.

ElectroClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:00 pm

I rather suspect the OP wasn't particularly serious with that suggestion.
If they were, well, like you, it seems to me rather bizarre.

I'm being 100% serious. If we have a manager who is lauded for attention to detail to a level none of our lads (nor Michael Jackson) claim to have seen who was also one of the best defenders in PL history I find it unfathomable that we just don't bother marking at corners. With all that in mind there HAS to be a reason for it and the VAR thing is one potential reason and I'm struggling to find others. I don't buy we just set up poorly at all, we didn't last season.

Just to add, playing John Stones in midfield would seem bizarre and now everyone is trying to replicate it.

Belial wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:07 am

It's a shame Dyche didn't leave his notes lying around when he went. We were excellent at corners when attacking or defending them then but looked dodgy at the back since and don't look like we'd score if we took 100 of them this season. It's all part of the learning curve tho

I think Dyche’s defenders may be more useful than his notes.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:23 pm

I'm being 100% serious. If we have a manager who is lauded for attention to detail to a level none of our lads (nor Michael Jackson) claim to have seen who was also one of the best defenders in PL history I find it unfathomable that we just don't bother marking at corners. With all that in mind there HAS to be a reason for it and the VAR thing is one potential reason and I'm struggling to find others. I don't buy we just set up poorly at all, we didn't last season.

Just to add, playing John Stones in midfield would seem bizarre and now everyone is trying to replicate it.

Pretty sure we marked zonally last season too.

It'd be a really daft tactic if it was because 99 times out of 100 the goal would have been given. All it would have taken was for Jamie's lad to not have made moves to block Trafford or to have stepped to either side and it's a goalcos he had no chance saving that header.

I would rather we gave our own keeper some protection rather than depend on officials/VAR/luck to do it for us.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:29 pm

Pretty sure we marked zonally last season too.

Didn’t get picked up on as much because we barely gave corners away because of our possession and ability to sniff out attacks before teams got into our third of the pitch.

Still has difficulty with them last season.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:29 pm

It'd be a really daft tactic if it was because 99 times out of 100 the goal would have been given. All it would have taken was for Jamie's lad to not have made moves to block Trafford or to have stepped to either side and it's a goalcos he had no chance saving that header.

Or the ball deflecting off one of our lads and all of a sudden you’ve got three players goal side that have been played onside…

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:54 pm

Didn’t get picked up on as much because we barely gave corners away because of our possession and ability to sniff out attacks before teams got into our third of the pitch.

Still has difficulty with them last season.

Absolutely. This also masked a big weakeness of Muric which was why I thought we would replace him with a more commanding keeper, although we don’t appear to have done.

A lot of goals are scored from set pieces in this league and it is worrying that we are poor at defending them and pose literally no threat when attacking with them.

I wonder whether this will give Berge the edge in Vinny’s team selections.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:58 pm

Absolutely. This also masked a big weakeness of Muric which was why I thought we would replace him with a more commanding keeper, although we don’t appear to have done.

A lot of goals are scored from set pieces in this league and it is worrying that we are poor at defending them and pose literally no threat when attacking with them.

I wonder whether this will give Berge the edge in Vinny’s team selections.

I think Muric got a lot better at coming and dealing with the high ball in all honesty.

Both keepers have had little help at set pieces, most notably Muric @ Sheff U away when our defence had Maatsen, Vitinho, THB & Beyer.

Chaz at left back is obviously a big help in defending set pieces, as is Roberts over Vitinho… THB and Beyer never struck me with confidence defending set pieces and always looked/still do that they’re not particularly good at it (yes I’m aware THB no longer plays for us but he looks the same at Southampton)

Interestingly I thought when we had Ekdal come in to the side we looked a lot more solid at set pieces and dealing with crosses.