Premier league sewer of cheats, should we join them ?

[northeastclaret]

Interesting reading the Newcastle Chronicles comments about how good Newcastle are at cheating.

‘A moan coming out of the Burnley dugout was Newcastle consistently winning free kicks. At one stage Kompany shouted, ‘what’s going on here.But the reality is Newcastle are well versed now on winning set pieces and penalties these days’.

They ‘won’ twice as many free kicks, enabled by a totally gullible referee. Interesting it’s recognised by the local journalists who see them doing it every week.

They call it ‘winning’ free kicks and penalties , not a victim of a foul.

Our young wingers and defenders were so naive and innocent, when they had opportunities to win free kicks, but didn’t even attempt to.

Do our young players now need to learn the skills necessary to join the other skilled cheats in the sewer?, Trippier and Gordon being the biggest cheats?

[ALP]

Personally I hope we never go that route, it isn't good when kids are seeing this cheating and then replicate it when they play. Dyche was 100% with the way he called it out, sadly nobody listened.

The game at the elite level is so wrong now, it is, or has now gone way too far to retrieve it too which is sad.

[ElectroClaret]

This thread could easily be linked to the Franny Lee memorial one.
The majority of the posts on there highlight his ability to
'win" penalties and free kicks. Which he undoubtedly did.

In other words, there's nothing new under the sun.
Don't you think the fans/manager on the wrong end of the Franny Lee decisions played holy f"*k? Of course they did.

It seems the difference on certain games these days is the refs are still crap, but being supported by VAR.

[tarkys_ears]

Couldn't care less about "cheating" anymore.

It's clear that being the bigger man / fair play etc is only gonna drag you down in the PL now.

Though I'd rather regain our tough status back. At the moment we've only got the old heads like Taylor and Brownhill ready to dish out a bit - that needs to change

[Neil]

Gordon drives me mad every time I watch them on tv but it's ten times worse when it's against your team.
It's one thing to dive when barely touched but does he really need to put that look on his face like he's just been hit in the balls with a sledgehammer and roll over four times???

[Swizzlestick]

We have a bit of previous for winning or attempting to win free kicks, let’s not kids ourselves.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The teams who attack the most do tend to get more fouls against them and make the most of it

Leicester used to be a good example of this

[dibraidio]

Personally I hope we never go that route, it isn't good when kids are seeing this cheating and then replicate it when they play. Dyche was 100% with the way he called it out, sadly nobody listened.

The game at the elite level is so wrong now, it is, or has now gone way too far to retrieve it too which is sad.

Is this the same Sean Dyche that had Ashley Barnes backing into defenders trying to "win" free kicks every game?

Some people have very short memories. We used to try and win free kicks all the time. In fact I think that change where the referees were told to let the game flow really affected us because the way we tried to win free kicks no longer worked. I remember looking at the fouls stats and it was striking. It may well have been one of the biggest factors in us going down because without the free kicks we scored fewer goals.
Barnes Fouls commited 20/21 - 2.1 per 90 21/22 - 0.9 per 90
Fouled: 20/21 - 2.2 per 90 21/22 0.5 per 90
Fouls to slow the opponents down, simulation of head injuries, backing in to win fouls in the opponents half. Dyche may have hated diving but he had his own version of the black arts which worked pretty well until that change in the advice to referees.

[vinrogue]

I have a couple of Spurs loving colleagues, I said if Maddison had rolled over 8 times, played dead as he did against us and if I had been playing I would have had a red card as I would have shown him what 8 rolls on the floor equates too and kicked him properly into next doors backyard!!! What a waste of a talent, a good footballer but a better con man. I hate the play acting, I hate the stoppages that result in the ref stopping the game and going over to the wounded player who then is ok and gets up, no physio, no need for them to lose a player for 30 seconds just a big con.........bloody hell I may have to take my blood pressure tabs again........

[northeastclaret]

I have a couple of Spurs loving colleagues, I said if Maddison had rolled over 8 times, played dead as he did against us and if I had been playing I would have had a red card as I would have shown him what 8 rolls on the floor equates too and kicked him properly into next doors backyard!!! What a waste of a talent, a good footballer but a better con man. I hate the play acting, I hate the stoppages that result in the ref stopping the game and going over to the wounded player who then is ok and gets up, no physio, no need for them to lose a player for 30 seconds just a big con.........bloody hell I may have to take my blood pressure tabs again........

Totally agree, I would love to kick him in b@locks and take that arrogant grin off his face. Still remember when he conned Tarks at the Turf and scored the follow up free kick. But what makes the blood pressure increase further is that virtually all the refs virtually all the time take the easy option of giving free kicks and not booking the cheats like they did briefly several seasons ago.

[dougcollins]

Dyche may have called it out but don't be under any illusion that his players weren't capable of the dark arts- certainly capable enough to keep us in the PL.

[SalisburyClaret]

It’s only going g to get worse while we have such poor refereeing.

It’s quite simple - anyone rolling over more than twice is obviously play acting and should be booked. If it’s Gordon, it should be a straight red

[Stayingup]

This added to VAR is or has ruined the game at top level. I notice after Liverpools disallowed goal there has been an apology and some sackings at Stockley Park. We didn't get an apology after the Nottingham fiasco did we? Keith Hackett is the latest ex ref to say that the VAR system has to be fixed or scrapped. Its Liverpool though not us.

[dougcollins]

I suppose Liverpool's was an 'objective' call compared to our 'subjective' one.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Every team does it. Some are just worse than others.

Newcastle are right up there.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The stats people in each club will identify that a ref gives a soft penalty (I’m making these up) for a nudge 10% of times, but a soft free kick for a little nudge out wide 60% of times, plus VAR never checks it, they’ll then work out the chance to score is 20% from that free kick, thinking if they win 5 a game thats 1 goal per game. They’ll factor in home advantage and who the ref is too, presenting a little dossier to the manager each week.

Made up numbers but I bet that’s the gist. The players will then practice the fall, expression and roll in training.

So it is cheating, but PGMOL, FA and the Premier League encourage such cheating even though it obviously leads to a worse spectacle for the viewer, a more stop start game. That’s why it is a horrible league to be in on so many levels.

[JohnMac]

World Cup winner Enzo Fernandez screamed in agony last night clutching his shin after it was brushed by a Fulham player.

Seconds later he is back up and playing. It's simply pathetic!

[Hipper]

It's always the referees that get called out for not spotting this. My view is they are doing their best but trying to manage a bunch of cheating prima donnas with the emphasis on the players being the spectacle - i.e. with one hand tied behind their back - is a thankless task. I bet they would like to really deal with all the goings on - e.g. pushing and holding at corners (bonus point to the ref at Blackburn-Leicester for giving a penalty for this). Problem is there would be no-one left on the pitch to play football.

I suggest you try and watch a game from the ref's point of view. Try and judge if something was a foul or not. Do it on TV or live - live is better but even on TV an initial view says foul then look again and there's no contact whatsoever; or there's a whisker of a contact but the victim could continue but doesn't - 'he's entitled to go down' according to our esteemed pundits. Other times it's a foul when you initially thought it wasn't. It's difficult.

And whilst we moan about this cheating we accept it even though it is spoiling our game. We still treat players and managers as 'heroes' yet they're a disgrace to the profession. They should be thoroughly embarrassed.

And yes, it did happen in the past but we can name the individuals that did it, so rare were they. Today it's practically all of them.

There are times when I wish I could give up with football but it seems I can't.

[whiffa]

Anthony Gordon is the biggest cheat in the Premier League, can honestly say I've never disliked a player more.

[beeholeclaret]

I’m one of the worst for calling out refs when I’m watching games but to be fair they have an awful lot of crap to put up with.

My immediate change would be to get rid of the technical areas and make sure managers and coaches stay in the so called dug out. This would stop this ridiculous hankering of referees and linesmen who are trying to do their job with these w!nkers in their face and ear.

Dissent should be punished with the old rule which means a free kick or the like is moved 10 yards nearer to the opponent penalty area. Yellow cards for anyone physically approaching the ref and effectively telling him what the decision should be.

If a player goes down injured the ref should wave on the trainer if it appears to be serious but essentially let the game continue with his team being a man short. If the injury is genuinely serious and the player requires urgent medical treatment they should be carted off for treatment and not allowed back on for 5 minutes or so?

I know these suggestions can be ridiculed and may not be easily enforceable but it would stop some of the stuff spectators have to put up with at the moment.

TV footage could be viewed retrospectively to identify clear cheating and suspensions applied although as with VAR this would be subjective and with the clowns in charge the big teams would still get the decisions.

Players and managers can’t complain at the officials when they themselves are culpable for the most ridiculous levels of gamesmanship and cheating.

[bfcjg]

If VAR wants to get any credit it should be used for post match retrospective yellows and reds for cheats. It would slow the game down to much to do it live.

[boatshed bill]

Newcastle are very good at getting away with "little" fouls, the tiny push in the back when the balls in the air is one, shirt pulling another.

[SalisburyClaret]

This added to VAR is or has ruined the game at top level. I notice after Liverpools disallowed goal there has been an apology and some sackings at Stockley Park. We didn't get an apology after the Nottingham fiasco did we? Keith Hackett is the latest ex ref to say that the VAR system has to be fixed or scrapped. Its Liverpool though not us.

We didn’t make a fuss, Liverpool made a hell of a fuss. We need to stop being so meek.

[JellyBaby]

It's always the referees that get called out for not spotting this. My view is they are doing their best but trying to manage a bunch of cheating prima donnas with the emphasis on the players being the spectacle - i.e. with one hand tied behind their back - is a thankless task. I bet they would like to really deal with all the goings on - e.g. pushing and holding at corners (bonus point to the ref at Blackburn-Leicester for giving a penalty for this). Problem is there would be no-one left on the pitch to play football.

I suggest you try and watch a game from the ref's point of view. Try and judge if something was a foul or not. Do it on TV or live - live is better but even on TV an initial view says foul then look again and there's no contact whatsoever; or there's a whisker of a contact but the victim could continue but doesn't - 'he's entitled to go down' according to our esteemed pundits. Other times it's a foul when you initially thought it wasn't. It's difficult.

And whilst we moan about this cheating we accept it even though it is spoiling our game. We still treat players and managers as 'heroes' yet they're a disgrace to the profession. They should be thoroughly embarrassed.

And yes, it did happen in the past but we can name the individuals that did it, so rare were they. Today it's practically all of them.

There are times when I wish I could give up with football but it seems I can't.

I agree with all of that, especially the ‘heroes’ and wishing I could give up with football! I do watch less now and especially of the Spanish/Italian leagues which are worse. The prem is even more like theatre but in a different way than even a few years ago, does make me laugh though, I remember Twine last season in particular. For me it’s a completely different form of ‘entertainment’ to what I began watching as a kid

[Spijed]

I think fans enjoy the pantomime situation of how players behave a times, probably one of the reasons why football is more popular than any other sport.

However, if football is desperate to clean up its image then it should look at the sanctions issued in Rugby Union. I suspect if a player/players were to surround the ref they would be banned for many matches, probably well into double figures.

[quoonbeatz]

It's always the referees that get called out for not spotting this.

Rightly so, as its not so much spotting it, its that they do nothing about it. They've even got video footage to help them but they don't understand the game and are too weak to actually take proper action so players take the **** out of them week after week.

[Sproggy]

I don't think Gordon stood out in that Newcastle team. They were all at it. Not only throwing themselves around at the slightest hint of contact but surrounding the ref at any opportunity they could - even for trivial decisions - which got the crowd involved. All clearly orchestrated.

[Stayingup]

Is this the same Sean Dyche that had Ashley Barnes backing into defenders trying to "win" free kicks every game?

Some people have very short memories. We used to try and win free kicks all the time. In fact I think that change where the referees were told to let the game flow really affected us because the way we tried to win free kicks no longer worked. I remember looking at the fouls stats and it was striking. It may well have been one of the biggest factors in us going down because without the free kicks we scored fewer goals.
Barnes Fouls commited 20/21 - 2.1 per 90 21/22 - 0.9 per 90
Fouled: 20/21 - 2.2 per 90 21/22 0.5 per 90
Fouls to slow the opponents down, simulation of head injuries, backing in to win fouls in the opponents half. Dyche may have hated diving but he had his own version of the black arts which worked pretty well until that change in the advice to referees.

I didn't realize that backing into someone was cheating. Barnes of course tried to win free kicks and preferrably keep hold of the ball. As you point out he was fouled as much as he fouled.

[northeastclaret]

Gosh , never seen such a unanimous thread, where there is so much agreement on how, in this instance , Newcastle orchestrate cheating amongst their team , so sad. I would like to see this Burnley team more streetwise, but doubt we will ever get anywhere near as low as Newcastle in the sewer of cheats , whilst VK is in charge.

Would love to hear his off the record view on this.

[Jamesy]

Gosh , never seen such a unanimous thread, where there is so much agreement on how, in this instance , Newcastle orchestrate cheating amongst their team , so sad. I would like to see this Burnley team more streetwise, but doubt we will ever get anywhere near as low as Newcastle in the sewer of cheats , whilst VK is in charge.

Would love to hear his off the record view on this.

What about Brownhill last night? I thought someone had shot him. Even the Luton player was perplexed at him feigning serious injury.

[ŽižkovClaret]

If we dont we are robbing ourselves

[ClaretTony]

Interesting reading the Newcastle Chronicles comments about how good Newcastle are at cheating.

‘A moan coming out of the Burnley dugout was Newcastle consistently winning free kicks. At one stage Kompany shouted, ‘what’s going on here.But the reality is Newcastle are well versed now on winning set pieces and penalties these days’.

They ‘won’ twice as many free kicks, enabled by a totally gullible referee. Interesting it’s recognised by the local journalists who see them doing it every week.

They call it ‘winning’ free kicks and penalties , not a victim of a foul.

Our young wingers and defenders were so naive and innocent, when they had opportunities to win free kicks, but didn’t even attempt to.

Do our young players now need to learn the skills necessary to join the other skilled cheats in the sewer?, Trippier and Gordon being the biggest cheats?

That’s what Bournemouth were like in the PL under Howe

[Jamesy]

That’s what Bournemouth were like in the PL under Howe

I agree. He has got previous for sure.

[Middle-agedClaret]

From the BBC feed of last nights game -

“Luton 0-0 Burnley
Now what's this nonsense?

Alfie Doughty goes to try and get the ball off Connor Roberts and has his hand around his head for a moment. The Burnley man drops like he's just taken a haymaker to the chin. It needs the ref to have a polite word.”

Anthony Gordon would be proud, I’m sure.

[Jamesy]

From the BBC feed of last nights game -

“Luton 0-0 Burnley
Now what's this nonsense?

Alfie Doughty goes to try and get the ball off Connor Roberts and has his hand around his head for a moment. The Burnley man drops like he's just taken a haymaker to the chin. It needs the ref to have a polite word.”

Anthony Gordon would be proud, I’m sure.

That’s the one. It didn’t look good or paint Connor Roberts in a good light. Although I said it was Brownhill!
Just been offered a job at Stockley Park!