That got us here.
Ekdal never put a foot wrong but got dropped even last year.
Muric grew into a monster but benched despite arguably the better pre-season.
Zaroury was stupid against City but despite running the game against (admittedly poor) Salford is gone.
Benson is fragile but is a proven matchwinner who looks like he wants to make things happen.
Gudmundsson has proven doubters wrong repeatedly and turned into an unbelievably adaptable player.
Taylor had to wait even as the only man left in his position to get a chance, but has taken it.

Last year's team stormed the championship in the end. Of the new lads, Koleosho and Odobert are exciting, Brun Larsen looks lively every time out in limited appearances, Amdouni talented but not a natural finisher and hard to figure out his best fit, jury still out on the rest. But if we're going to tinker and experiment with kids and rogue selections in games against top opposition, why not put some faith in the players who got us here?

Bad idea to rely on faith.Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority. The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or empirical evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.
On the evidence we are playing very badly.

Save me twos on whatever you’re smoking

Ekdal injured
Benson injured
JBG injured

I also don't get the Muric and Zaroury omissions though

Neither of you have read the post clearly. I'm criticising the team selection as it stands but well done on finishing the headline.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:50 pm

Ekdal injured
Benson injured
JBG injured

I also don't get the Muric and Zaroury omissions though

Ekdal wasn't getting in before injury.
Benson was benched before injury.
Gudmundsson I'll grant you but I still don't expect him to return when fit to be honest, with how bizarre our selections are.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:52 pm

Ekdal wasn't getting in before injury.
Benson was benched before injury.
Gudmundsson I'll grant you but I still don't expect him to return when fit to be honest, with how bizarre our selections are.

I don’t believe Benson has properly recovered from an injury before the season started.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:52 pm

Ekdal wasn't getting in before injury.
Benson was benched before injury.
Gudmundsson I'll grant you but I still don't expect him to return when fit to be honest, with how bizarre our selections are.

yep the selections are strange. I'm not quite comprehending how we spent close to 100 million and two of our starting back four cost one million each - that's a staggering oversight

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:05 pm

yep the selections are strange. I'm not quite comprehending how we spent close to 100 million and two of our starting back four cost one million each - that's a staggering oversight

It's the centre of midfield for me.
Berge keeps showing signs of coming good but can't do it alone.
Cullen... brilliant last season, fantastic second half Vs Luton but and I hope I'm wrong but my gut is telling me we're seeing why he never made the grade at West Ham, and my gut is saying he's like David Jones- brilliant midfield tempo setter at the Championship, bridge too far in the Prem.
Brownhill we know what he's about. He's an 8/10 engine who's a 5-6/10 in every other attribute, the sort who has no glaring weaknesses so can boss a number of midfield roles in the Championship but can't quite cut it above that.
It worries me that I'm thinking a 32 yr old Gudmundsson converting to centre midfield still represents a starting CM choice for his technique, guile, experience and precision.

Played 2 teams our expected level
Won 1
Drew 1
Should have won 2

Judge us after more of the above

4midable wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:13 pm

Played 2 teams our expected level
Won 1
Drew 1
Should have won 2

Judge us after more of the above

True but any time you stay up you need to take points off teams in the top half at home. Conceding 16 goals in 5 home games is a bad precedant.

The problems all start with the keeper, by the time he passes it.. everyone is marked & we end up making a 30yd pass to someone with a player on his back & we turn it over.
Muric HAS to be given a chance!

A settled team is what is needed. Too much chopping and changing currently.

brexit wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:40 pm

Bad idea to rely on faith.Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority. The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or empirical evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.
On the evidence we are playing very badly.

Explains Brexit very well that post.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:17 pm

True but any time you stay up you need to take points off teams in the top half at home. Conceding 16 goals in 5 home games is a bad precedant.

We’re currently 3 points off Brentford in 14th.

Few genuine (hypothetical) questions.

What position would you have us in if we’d had Everton’s opening fixtures? Would we be 3 points better off than now?

Do you think there would still be a narrative around how s*** we are if we had those said fixtures?

When answering try and consider performances and results we’ve had this season against lower half teams.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:17 pm

True but any time you stay up you need to take points off teams in the top half at home. Conceding 16 goals in 5 home games is a bad precedant.

You really need to get your head around what Kompany is trying to do.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:06 pm

We’re currently 3 points off Brentford in 14th.

Few genuine (hypothetical) questions.

What position would you have us in if we’d had Everton’s opening fixtures? Would we be 3 points better off than now?

Do you think there would still be a narrative around how s*** we are if we had those said fixtures?

When answering try and consider performances and results we’ve had this season against lower half teams.

Who knows mate.

I will say Everton got their players in much later than ours and also had injuries - their underlying stats suggest that they should’ve been on more points as well.

I think the four worst teams in the division are us, Bournemouth, Sheff United and Luton. It’s a mini league and we ultimately just need to top that to stay up.

I know we did a job on Luton but they look more ‘together’ if you will and resolute. They’ll ruffle a few feathers but ultimately lack quality.

We have another 5 games or so after the international break to really gauge where we’re at… the first home win can’t come soon enough

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:11 pm

You really need to get your head around what Kompany is trying to do.

I think I know what he’s trying to do? But that’s the bottom line, 16 goals conceded in 5 games at home is rough, no matter what way one looks at it.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:14 pm

I think I know what he’s trying to do? But that’s the bottom line, 16 goals conceded in 5 games at home is rough, no matter what way one looks at it.

I agree its tough at the moment , hang in there we will come above three other teams.

I would rather be in our position than Bournemouth and Luton and Sheff Utd will not improve. We only need to finish 4th from bottom and that's realistic in my view.

There'll be more thrashings to come

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:10 pm

It's the centre of midfield for me.
Berge keeps showing signs of coming good but can't do it alone.
Cullen... brilliant last season, fantastic second half Vs Luton but and I hope I'm wrong but my gut is telling me we're seeing why he never made the grade at West Ham, and my gut is saying he's like David Jones- brilliant midfield tempo setter at the Championship, bridge too far in the Prem.
Brownhill we know what he's about. He's an 8/10 engine who's a 5-6/10 in every other attribute, the sort who has no glaring weaknesses so can boss a number of midfield roles in the Championship but can't quite cut it above that.
It worries me that I'm thinking a 32 yr old Gudmundsson converting to centre midfield still represents a starting CM choice for his technique, guile, experience and precision.

we can't keep the ball, can't build momentum. I'm 100% behind the long term vision but it's too many inexperienced players all at the same time to get immediate results seemingly. At the end of the day that's the route VK and the board decided to go down so we have to back them, the change in the club has been a huge positive as far as I can see, if we have to take a step back then so be it. As of today we are the 18th best team in the country and that's not to be sniffed at no matter how disappointing the second half today was.

I think we lack a leader, an organiser, a voice that lets the players know what they should be doing. I still can’t work out if we have a best 11 with all this choosing and changing.

4midable wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:13 pm

Played 2 teams our expected level
Won 1
Drew 1
Should have won 2

Judge us after more of the above

It's b0llocks is that.

We should have trounced Man Utd and been a few up today before they scored.

We're weak, inexperienced and not learning.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:06 pm

We’re currently 3 points off Brentford in 14th.

Few genuine (hypothetical) questions.

What position would you have us in if we’d had Everton’s opening fixtures? Would we be 3 points better off than now?

Do you think there would still be a narrative around how s*** we are if we had those said fixtures?

When answering try and consider performances and results we’ve had this season against lower half teams.

Unless we can grab a few points against the best sides it puts us under enormous pressure to win EVERY game (bar the odd one) against those around us, or at the very least they are quickly becoming a must not lose.

The Brentford and Bournemouth games are now critical to our success or otherwise this season.

Some say we've got plenty of games left in the season, but many of those will become irrelevant unless we show a big improvement, even in the matches we are not expected to get anything from.

The pressure on the winnable matches will just increase week by week

How can you have faith in the team when the manager won't keep faith in is team after winning first game of season in midweek you need to build on and get a bloody settled team. People can keep going on about Trafford but after paying big money the manager as to justify that.

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:48 pm

It's b0llocks is that.

We should have trounced Man Utd and been a few up today before they scored.

We're weak, inexperienced and not learning.

The learning is just a smokescreen when you are learning the idea is to stop making the same mistakes, the only thing that’s been learnt is perhaps forcing pace to draft some sort of a P45 & then the learning will be completed.

I thought we would be on 0 points after 7 games (before we rearranged Luton). So we are ahead of that, well positioned relative to the others as some of them (mainly Everton) embark on a hard run like we just had. By Christmas I reckon we will be 6 clear of relegation. I find the hysteria odd. If our fans are really expecting us to stuff United and Chelsea we are getting too big for our boots, they both have world class players and we need luck they won’t produce something - Fernandes and Sterling did, that’s all there is to it, means sod all if they are rocky at times if their players do that.

I think all the optimism of being back in the premier league is slipping away and with the amount of signings and money we have spent will spell disaster for us if we are relegated .. I am struggling to understand some choices in the team and would much rather have seen more of the players we had last season in the starting 11 .. Zaroury is the main one who can’t seem to even get on the bench

I have faith. We will not go down.