I live on the Welsh border but today was the first time I've ventured over there since the 20mph was instigated. Wow it's slow to the point of ridiculous. I hope that no one in power in England ever gets the urge to impose this on the motoring public. Some may disagree but I feel it's just too slow.

All it will do is frustrate drivers and let pedestrians think they can just cross the road wherever they feel like it.

We were up in Eyemouth, Scotland, last month and there are a bunch of roads up there made to 20mph…..struggle to get out of 3rd….not great for the planet lol

ClaretDiver wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:16 pm

We were up in Eyemouth, Scotland, last month and there are a bunch of roads up there made to 20mph…..struggle to get out of 3rd….not great for the planet lol

Driving at 20mph is better for the planet than driving at 30mph.

It's happening here in the south too, in London and other areas.

I'm told (by 'victims') that in places near here they use road humps and cameras to enforce it. I'm also told (I don't drive these days) that it's quite hard with current cars to stick to 20mph, especially without cruise control.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... report.pdf

This report suggests that speed is generally reduced by only about 1mph if there is no enforcement. There's no improvement in collisions but slight benefits in that a few more people walk or cycle.

Has been 20mph outside schools for a long time here,a lot of people against it and have sprayed over the signs,it will certainly take some getting used to ,very confusing at times as well

Even if you believe in the need for lower emissions, driving/riding at 20 MPH increases them as drivers/riders tend to engage lower gears.

What is crazy about this rule is they are trying to get us all in electric cars but even a lower end one has fast acceleration. It takes great skill and eyes firmly on the speedo to stay below 20 mph. I agree with it by schools but on too long a stretch it is bonkers.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:45 pm

Even if you believe in the need for lower emissions, driving/riding at 20 MPH increases them as drivers/riders tend to engage lower gears.

This isn’t true. Where are you getting this information from?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:24 pm

Driving at 20mph is better for the planet than driving at 30mph.

Not true, it just means your in a lower gear for a longer period which is actually bad for the planet. 56mph is regarded as the optimum speed for fuel efficiency. Your in a higher gear doing the same revs and burning only slightly more fuel but the journey is almost 2/3 less in duration.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:49 pm

This isn’t true. Where are you getting this information from?

Yes, it is true. Apply a bit of logic for once. If you need it explaining, I can't help.

Isn't this to save people's lives and cut down the number of deaths on the road?
Sounds like a good plan to me,saving peoples lives.

Lip wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:51 pm

Isn't this to save people's lives and cut down the number of deaths on the road?
Sounds like a good plan to me,saving peoples lives.

It's got nothing to do with saving lives.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:53 pm

It's got nothing to do with saving lives.

It's their first objective

Lip wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:51 pm

Isn't this to save people's lives and cut down the number of deaths on the road?
Sounds like a good plan to me,saving peoples lives.

Saving lives is actually impossible.

Erm it’s got everything to do with saving lives…

Been 20 mph across large parts of Calderdale for ages. The world has not ended, people get around fine. It really is no big deal.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:53 pm

It's got nothing to do with saving lives.

Of course it has you thick twohat !

Firthy wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:51 pm

Not true, it just means your in a lower gear for a longer period which is actually bad for the planet. 56mph is regarded as the optimum speed for fuel efficiency. Your in a higher gear doing the same revs and burning only slightly more fuel but the journey is almost 2/3 less in duration.

Well actual scientific studies says that it is true;

https://futuretransport.info/urban-traffic-research/

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:51 pm

Yes, it is true. Apply a bit of logic for once. If you need it explaining, I can't help.

Not sure why the need for the personal nature of your response. But unlike you I applied logic by not assuming I know better than the experts;

https://futuretransport.info/urban-traffic-research/

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:57 pm

Saving lives is actually impossible.

Why is it impossible?

I think the most baffling thing about the outrage around this is that it seems to be entirely English, despite the Welsh government being elected with the policy in their manifesto.

Firthy wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:13 pm

All it will do is frustrate drivers and let pedestrians think they can just cross the road wherever they feel like it.

No, no it doesn’t. Loads of areas have 20mph. The roads are not full of pedestrians strolling in the middle of the road. The only people who get frustrated are d!cks who think they are better driver than everyone else so should choose their own speed limit.

Lip wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:58 pm

Of course it has you thick twohat !

I'm pretty certain I am a lot brighter than you.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:02 pm

I think the most baffling thing about the outrage around this is that it seems to be entirely English, despite the Welsh government being elected with the policy in their manifesto.

There has been a lot of opposition to it in Wales.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:00 pm

Not sure why the need for the personal nature of your response. But unlike you I applied logic by not assuming I know better than the experts;

https://futuretransport.info/urban-traffic-research/

Do you drive a car/motorbike with gears?

Regardless of the reasons, what I did find strange was it went straight from a national speed limit to a 20, that’s a hell of a step down, especially if you don’t know the roads as it’s on a bend

I can see that driving at 20mph better for the environment than 30 mph on a per minute basis but you will be driving for much longer.
If your journey is 30 miles, that's an hour at 30mph, 1.5 hours at 20 mph so 50 % longer your car is in action.

I can see that 20mph is safer in some environments- such as narrow streets with cars parked along so its possible for kids/animals to suddenly appear. Near where I live there are a lot of current 30mph roads where the view is clear and there are grass verges so no surprise road incursions.

No axe to grind on this personally as I haven't driven for over 20 years but an across the board 20mph seems a bit over the top.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:05 pm

Do you drive a car/motorbike with gears?

No. Would that affect the results of the various scientific studies?

taio wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:00 pm

Why is it impossible?

You can only extend them.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:07 pm

No. Would that affect the results of the various scientific studies?

Maybe if you did, you'd understand my point.

RHansburyEsq wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:57 pm

Erm it’s got everything to do with saving lives…

Been 20 mph across large parts of Calderdale for ages. The world has not ended, people get around fine. It really is no big deal.

Oh and just checked and in the first three years of its introduction in Calderdale there was a 30% reduction in casualties.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:09 pm

You can only extend them.

Saving lives then.

Living in Wales I experience the 20mph limit every day. Traffic is down to a crawl in busy, now 20mph areas. Around schools I see the sense but there are many busy arterial roads, previously 30mph and not in built up areas or near schools, where traffic is building up extensively. I'm no expert but would suspect that where there is a contracted build up of exhaust fumes, then this must be worse for the environment as the fumes are more intense and not dissipating as quickly. I think this edict from Drakeford is as much about his ill thought out use of power and from experience comes at the expense of issues where he should be stepping in such as Health on which he has palpably failed.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:10 pm

Maybe if you did, you'd understand my point.

I have driven cars with gears before. It’s not about understanding your point, it’s about whether your point is factually correct and it appears that it isn’t.

Did you read the study I posted?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:11 pm

I have driven cars with gears before. It’s not about understanding your point, it’s about whether your point is factually correct and it appears that it isn’t.

Did you read the study I posted?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:04 pm

I'm pretty certain I am a lot brighter than you.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:18 pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Well demonstrated

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:04 pm

I'm pretty certain I am a lot brighter than you.

You must be super bright then .

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:18 pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Got to love this kind of ignorance. I took the time to post a study that proves your point is incorrect and you’ve done nothing but be pig-headed and rude in your replies, and refuse to shift from your position because your drive a vehicle with gears.

Unfortunately some people don’t want to learn.

Lip wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:20 pm

You must be super bright then .

I am, at least according to my academic qualifications.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:21 pm

Got to love this kind of ignorance. I took the time to post a study that proves your point is incorrect and you’ve done nothing but be pig-headed and rude in your replies, and refuse to shift from your position because your drive a vehicle with gears.

Unfortunately some people don’t want to learn.

Your study doesn't 'prove' anything. That's the nature of scientific research.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:22 pm

I am certain of it.

It's got nothing to do with saving lives. Do you really believe the government are interested in saving lives? It's the latest tactic to cajole us out of driving cars.

groove wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:24 pm

It's got nothing to do with saving lives. Do you really believe the government are interested in saving lives? It's the latest tactic to cajole us out of driving cars.

Precisely. At last some sense.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:22 pm

Your study doesn't 'prove' anything. That's the nature of scientific research.

The study I posted contains evidence which disproves your theory that driving at 30mph results in less emissions than driving at 20mph. What evidence do you have to back up your claim?

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:23 pm

I am certain of it.

Certain of what?

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:21 pm

I am, at least according to my academic qualifications.

You must be really clever to know the qualifications of other posters. No wonder you call yourself quick nick. No flies on you.

taio wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:28 pm

You must be really clever to know the qualifications of other posters. No wonder you call yourself quick nick. No flies on you.

You can't have more than my three CSEs

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:32 pm

You can't have more than my three CSEs

Does my degree in Spanish equal three CSEs

I was down in Snowdonia and on Anglesey last weekend and the 20 mph limit makes perfect sense.
The old 30 limits are still there except for the more heavily populated areas and around shops and schools where, quite rightly, pedestrians rule and not car drivers.
You lose a couple of minutes driving through a town at 20mph if that.