VAR -

Walkerpool · Post by **Walkerpool** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:55 pm

F@@K VAR THAT'S IT IM DONE

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:56 pm

Showed a green line, onside.
Let's change angle to one less clear red line goes up, offside.
Looked on to me

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:57 pm

Another benefit of playing in the Championship next season. Absolutely shambolic.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:02 pm

Words can't do it justice.

As appallingly bad as we were today, we've been robbed of a point by VAR.

That's the second goal incorrectly disallowed for us and it's now three points taken off us.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:03 pm

Just keep checking until they find an angle that shows offside

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:03 pm

https://x.com/bendonovan4/status/171814 ... 58888?s=46

Yet they gave this goal for Palace, ruled it wasn’t a handball

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:03 pm

Second time we've been outplayed by VAR this season.

CryerBFC · Post by **CryerBFC** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:06 pm

If that was a championship fixture today, goal wouldn’t have stood because the linesman flagged. We can’t be annoyed at VAR in this instance, it’s very tight, but he’s just off.

The real frustration has to be why it takes to the 88th min to do anything of note when you’re looking at getting points in these games.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:07 pm

Looked onside to me.. commentator confirmed it looked onside to him.. VAR confirm onside with green line.. VAR then disallow the goal.. convince me this isn't corrupt

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:09 pm

First line showed him on. Commentator seemed convinced he was on, just. However they went out of their way to find an angle where it looked like he was off and then went with that! Absolutely astonishing. They quite literally went out of their way to find a way to chalk out that goal.

Don't get me wrong we didn't deserve anything today, but that, from Stockley Park, was absolutely incredible.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:10 pm

Looked offside all the time to me, even when they showed the green line Rodriguez's head looked to be in front of it.

I'd rather they took the time to make the correct decision.

Camera angles aren't relevant as the lines are calibrated to the goal line.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:11 pm

VAR. Still finding ways to disallow goals. Football is meant to be entertaining and that means goals. Finding ways to disallow them is wrong. Very wrong. To me the whole body should be offside not a small part of it. Its a farce really.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:11 pm

been saying it since this study came out
https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/mo ... decisions/

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:12 pm

VAR doesn’t work for teams at the bottom

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:13 pm

Stayingup wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:11 pm
VAR. Still finding ways to disallow goals. Football is meant to be entertaining and that means goals. Finding ways to disallow them is wrong. Very wrong. To me the whole body should be offside not a small part of it. Its a farce really.

The gosl had already been disallowed though.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:13 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:10 pm

I'd rather they took the time to make the correct decision.

Don't we all, but it's not happening.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:13 pm

Mike Dean on Sky Sports said offside when lines drawn correctly
He said best to make sure the lines are drawn correctly than make another mistake like the Liverpool disallowed goal at Spurs

alboclaret · Post by **alboclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:13 pm

Jay's head was infront of the line when it flashed up green.
This was obviously why they wanted another angle as var wasn't working correctly.

Carwin261 · Post by **Carwin261** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:14 pm

I reckon he was at first glance ,but let’s not us or VK use this as a reason for us being an absolute shambles,and where the F- -K do we go from here ?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm

VAR - what outcome do you want? OK.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm

Correct decision made
Watch Match of the Day for confirmation

BigGaz · Post by **BigGaz** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:17 pm

It was offside.

They did the line wrong. You could clearly say J-Rods head protruding over the first one they did.

So they then clarified it.

If they’d have done that within a minute there wouldn’t be as much controversy. For me the issue is that it took 4 minutes and the associated factors it introduces such as influencing the mental state of each side.

There’s no question it was offside.

Leyland Claret · Post by **Leyland Claret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:22 pm

Besides the obvious sh*tshow with the offside the Berge chance right at the end was handball and it wasn’t even mentioned. The Bournemouth defender had hold of Sanders shirt and it was that arm the ball hit. VAR is not fit for purpose

Madpete · Post by **Madpete** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:24 pm

Heard a useful definition of offside recently that said if ANY part of the attacker was in line with the defender then it is onside.This means that instead of being offside by a nose you could be onside by a big toe… I like this as it favours the attackers & the game is about goals,is it not?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:55 pm

CryerBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:06 pm
If that was a championship fixture today, goal wouldn’t have stood because the linesman flagged. We can’t be annoyed at VAR in this instance, it’s very tight, but he’s just off.

The real frustration has to be why it takes to the 88th min to do anything of note when you’re looking at getting points in these games.

But as we all know, linesmen do it differently in the Championship. I have literally never seen a Championship match where the linesman waits to see what happens next before deciding to flag, so there is no way of saying what the linesman would have done if he wasn't sure.

In the Championship and below, what would most likely have happened is that the linesman would have thought "too close to call, looks level, onside". Int he PL he thinks "too close to call, let play go on, but if I had to guess I'll guess at off". In the Championship he wouldn't have had to guess.

It's a common misconception that in the "olden days" before VAR, linesmen used to compare one man's shoulder with another's knee 20 yards away and make an informed judgement about which was further forward. They didn't do that. They just said "level" and let play go on, which is what this linesman would have done (hopefully) in the Championship. The guidance to referees was quite specific in 1990 or so, when the laws changed so that "level" was onside, that it wasn't to be judged by inches - the quote, as near exact as my memory goes, was "if the player looks level, then he is level".

Ptangyangkipperbang · Post by **Ptangyangkipperbang** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:56 pm

I'm another what's done with VAR after this season I'm not paying money to watch a game with it in operation.As daft as it sounds even the checks for Chelsea annoyed me in our game against them.And I always hark back to the Spurs pen 2 seasons ago against that made a mockery of it all I said I was done then but.

Middle-agedClaret · Post by **Middle-agedClaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:57 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:03 pm
Second time we've been outplayed by VAR this season.

Strange to say, it was actually a poor Bournemouth team which outplayed us.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:01 pm

He looked offside on the initial replay and I’m pretty sure the decision was correct. However David Coote has been made to look like a fool. He drew the line and appeared to make the call that the goal was onside, the green line was shown however half of Jay’s head was in front of the line. Looked like someone leaned over him and pointed this out and he was told to re-draw the line. He looked pretty hacked off but his assistant seems to have saved his bacon.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:01 pm

Middle-agedClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:57 pm
Strange to say, it was actually a poor Bournemouth team which outplayed us.

Yep.
Outplayed on both fronts.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm

I don't like VAR and would scrap it but the only criticism today for the disallowed goal is how long it took.

You could see plainly that the first line wasn't drawn correctly. If that goal had been given based on that line it would have been as big a scandal as the disallowed Liverpool goal (not to the media but to football fans).

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm

The issue about VAR is, why do they think it's a good thing? Today's farce was excessive even by VAR standards. But as a general principle, regardless of who scores the goal - in the Championship and below, the ball was played, the linesman would (I hope) have seen that the players were level, the goal would have been scored and celebrated.

Now, what happens is that the ball is played, the linesman (well, what he does is irrelevant as long as he lets play go on), the goal is scored, the crowd sits on its hands for a few minutes, while they look at TV pictures, and eventually the goal is disallowed.

(There are side "benefits" that many times, the crowd thinks an attacking chance is still live when the linesman has already decided (usually correctly) that it's not.)

Why is this a good thing? Was there a history of goals being scored and people complaining that on the replay he looked level, but if only we had more exact technology we might have found he was a quarter inch offside? What perceived problem is VAR solving with these ridiculous offside verdicts?

Easy way to do it - the VAR official sees a photo without lines drawn. If he can't say for sure that the linesman is wrong, then the lineman is right. And the linesman can stop guessing about inches, they can go back to doing it the way they would in the Championship.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm

Way off. Correct decision by VAR. Shambolic way to reach it.

I don’t want offside goals given for us, in the same way I don’t want them given against.

CryerBFC · Post by **CryerBFC** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:09 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:55 pm
But as we all know, linesmen do it differently in the Championship. I have literally never seen a Championship match where the linesman waits to see what happens next before deciding to flag, so there is no way of saying what the linesman would have done if he wasn't sure.

In the Championship and below, what would most likely have happened is that the linesman would have thought "too close to call, looks level, onside". Int he PL he thinks "too close to call, let play go on, but if I had to guess I'll guess at off". In the Championship he wouldn't have had to guess.

It's a common misconception that in the "olden days" before VAR, linesmen used to compare one man's shoulder with another's knee 20 yards away and make an informed judgement about which was further forward. They didn't do that. They just said "level" and let play go on, which is what this linesman would have done (hopefully) in the Championship. The guidance to referees was quite specific in 1990 or so, when the laws changed so that "level" was onside, that it wasn't to be judged by inches - the quote, as near exact as my memory goes, was "if the player looks level, then he is level".

You’re saying ‘hopefully’ they’d do that in the Championship, but in the first paragraph say you know they do it differently.

The game today, the linesman put his flag up, and as I said, if todays game was a championship affair, we wouldn’t have been given the goal.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:10 pm

It was probably offside. I'll go with the linesman.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:12 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm
Way off. Correct decision by VAR. Shambolic way to reach it.

I don’t want offside goals given for us, in the same way I don’t want them given against.

“Way off”

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:13 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:13 pm
The gosl had already been disallowed though.

Indeed but it's a grouse about VAR generally and in fact the goal I aim this at is the one disallowed at Nottingham.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm
Way off. Correct decision by VAR. Shambolic way to reach it.

I don’t want offside goals given for us, in the same way I don’t want them given against.

Way off, don’t talk utter bollcoks!

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:22 pm

Way off

Seems Kompany is fuming on the handball just after it that wasn’t given/looked at. The one where Berge challenged for it and their lad hand balled it before Berge stuck the rebound over.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:35 pm

CryerBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:09 pm
You’re saying ‘hopefully’ they’d do that in the Championship, but in the first paragraph say you know they do it differently.

The game today, the linesman put his flag up, and as I said, if todays game was a championship affair, we wouldn’t have been given the goal.

How do you know? We can both agree that the linesman would have reacted differently in the championship. We can both agree that the linesman was not 100% convinced it was offside. How can you know what his decision would have been, in a league where the application of the law is different?

Sgt. Pepper · Post by **Sgt. Pepper** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:36 pm

Difficult to separate the disappointment of our recent performances from my feelings towards VAR but, as I mentioned on another thread, there is academic research which suggests the technology used is incapable of reaching a definitive decision in incidents such as this.
Combine this with the shambolic implementation, and the excitement it sucks out of the game, and VAR is destroying football.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:39 pm

when I was watching the 9000 VAR replays of our goal there were 9000 times I thought I'd like to see the camera angle of the ball contacting the player when it was passed because when you look at the freeze frame the ball already looks on it's way.

It's not fit for purpose

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:41 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:39 pm
when I was watching the 9000 VAR replays of our goal there were 9000 times I thought I'd like to see the camera angle of the ball contacting the player when it was passed because when you look at the freeze frame the ball already looks on it's way.

It's not fit for purpose

Surely they take a shot of the instant the ball is kicked and the instant 1/100th of a second later (approx) when the kick finishes and use both as the guide. Don't they?

Oh no, I see it now - they haven't got a shot of the exact instant so they take one or other either side and have a bit of a guess. The wonders of technology.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:43 pm

It was the correct decision… The first green line did not get drawn to the head of Rodriguez… Don’t ask me why such a simple initial error could be made… But ultimately, it looks as though they got the decision right.

The handball from the corner though….clear penalty!!

: IMG_1362.jpeg (912.03 KiB) Viewed 2367 times

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:44 pm

bumba wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:56 pm
Showed a green line, onside.
Let's change angle to one less clear red line goes up, offside.
Looked on to me

If you look at the green line, Rodriguez’ head is over the line, Infact the line goes through half of Jays head. He was offside, the green line showed it.

Edit: someone beat me to it with the image

Paddy1882 · Post by **Paddy1882** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:45 pm

Sad day for me today In the realisation that my love for football has gone. VAR plays a massive part in that, but I knew that would be the case the moment last season ended. Right decision wrong decision I don’t particularly care, the fact it takes so long to make decisions is destroying everything that football used to be about. Add to that the money involved in the game now and other bonkers stuff like games on Xmas eve has made me lose my love for it. Results don’t help of course but Iv seen us be much worse at much worse levels of football but it was always enjoyable. Not any more unfortunately.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:46 pm

Now the image is there for all to see what are the “VAR is rigged mob going to shout”?

Masham Ale · Post by **Masham Ale** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:47 pm

I am not a fan of Var but if we have to have such an offside check make it immune to human error end interpretation. You’ve got a 3d situation only viewable in 2d at different angles and in perspective. The relevant body parts being at different heights from the pitch which are impossible to get accurately so the lines they draw are very much open to interpretation rather than being accurate. If we must have a var check for offside why not just put a sensor in the player’s kit and use something similar to goal line tech with a sensor in the ball. It could just be using the gps tracker in the back of the shirt. When a player is trying to stay onside he’s only judging his position by his torso position, not by his toe nail or nose. Using a sensor between his shoulder blades would be in the spirit of the law in my opinion. It would just become a simple ‘mathematical’ OK/NOK. It must be so easy to do to. Today was a complete farce.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:48 pm

jdrobbo wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:43 pm
It was the correct decision… The first green line did not get drawn to the head of Rodriguez… Don’t ask me why such a simple initial error could be made… But ultimately, it looks as though they got the decision right.

The handball from the corner though….clear penalty!!

IMG_1362.jpeg

you just highlighted the problem. THAT freeze frame, the ball is already on it's way - they got it wrong because the technology isn't good enough

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:48 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:46 pm
Now the image is there for all to see what are the “VAR is rigged mob going to shout”?

look at the wide one and tell me the ball is frozen at the exact moment the ball is played - it clearly isn't

CryerBFC · Post by **CryerBFC** » Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:50 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:35 pm
How do you know? We can both agree that the linesman would have reacted differently in the championship. We can both agree that the linesman was not 100% convinced it was offside. How can you know what his decision would have been, in a league where the application of the law is different?

Haha. Ok.