I am at a loss.

Championship

Well I am going up to watch our home win v Palace next Saturday

Make solid changes
Keeper has to be changed for one

Hopefully recover some injured players (particularly Foster)
Give Muric a chance
Don’t give Vitinho any more chances
Stop playing backward passes all the time
Get behind the lads

Down.

Limp along to Xmas then either double down and spend more money with VK or clear the decks and bring in a new management team with a view to next
Seasons assault on the championship.

Everton for a start midweek and a very welcome Cup game distraction. If the Cup squad give a decent showing surely even Klueless will have to wake up and smell the coffee for next weekend's fixture??

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:11 pm

Well I am going up to watch our home win v Palace next Saturday

Mee too.

“ Is it down to the lake I fear”? “ Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye, Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye Aye, Here we go, Love Love Love Plus One”

I’ll get me coat.

doesn't matter where we go, we'll be there supporting them no matter how crap it gets. Your football club is like an itch you can't scratch

We have no idea what sort of team we are. Are we a passing outfit, long ball merchants, counter attacking? We have no identity and that needs sorting quickly.

Go back to what 70% know how to deliver at fast pace. Reinstate the players that got us promoted and build the team around them introducing the new guts steadily. We beat Bournemouth comfortably last year we got hammered today by roughly the same team

Everything suggested tonight as to how we improve is nothing that hasn’t been written many times before this season.

Seemingly everyone can see it apart from him.

Getting harder and harder to watch us make the same mistakes over and over again knowing that because the manager “believes” in what we do, nothing will change.

When belief is overriding evidence, the game is up.

All decent teams have a strong spine. Today ours was Trafford AD and Elmouni
It needs to be Muric Beyer Foster then build the team around them

Time to start doing something more productive and enjoyable with our weekends?

No more 4-3-3/4-1-4-1

4-2-3-1

Dedicated two man sitting midfield. Mix it up a bit going long/over the top

Bring our players in that have played at a higher level with more experience (eg Redmond, Larsen), take the raw youngsters out of the side (Amdouni, Koleosho, Trafford, Al-Dakhil)

Think Vitinho can keep his place - but stop with the fullbacks coming into midfield nonsense. Have our midfielders play in midfield and fill the gaps in defence ie if a fullback bombs on.

As a previous poster has said ,we have no structure ,no strong chin,no leader ,no one to grab the game by the scruff of the neck,no ball winner and on Wednesday is November and still no win at home .

Get some experience into the side - would be happy to see Cork and Redmond come in. Change the goalkeeper, it isn’t working. Foster will be back. Hopefully Beyer will be. Play 4-2-3-1.

The final 10 minutes looked like Burnley and they couldn’t handle us, that is the key. Play like Burnley with purpose and tempo, not with fear.

So I don’t think we need to change much, a few tweaks to personnel, wide right in particular and that extra passing body in midfield with ideally a leader.

We need to remember those early games when managers were praising us as being a really good side even if they had beaten us. It’ll come together.

We have a situation where we have far too many options for a few positions, and too few options in other areas. We need to find some stability in personnel and formation, amd stick with them for more than a game.

For me the cup is a good game to try massengo and larsen. Tresor hasn't done much but arguably he has the best pedigree. On the left. Keep him there.

Forget vitinho at this level. Get beyer and ekdal in a partnership ASAP. Muric deserves a start.

All opinions obviously, but ideally I want to see this team:

Muric

Roberts
Ekdal
Beyer
Taylor

Cullen
Massengo
Berge

Tresor
Larsen
Foster

Pub

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:09 pm

Get some experience into the side - would be happy to see Cork and Redmond come in. Change the goalkeeper, it isn’t working. Foster will be back. Hopefully Beyer will be. Play 4-2-3-1.

Incremental tweaks will only go so far & in training VK isn't seeing enough to justify a starting selection (JC NR), it might make a slight difference but even then it'll be temporary as either can't go the full 90, foster & beyer are more likely to influence any sort of positive improvement, a 15 to 19 million reasons muric won't get the nod however disgruntled certain fans become.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:25 pm

Incremental tweaks will only go so far & in training VK isn't seeing enough to justify a starting selection (JC NR), it might make a slight difference but even then it'll be temporary as either can't go the full 90, foster & beyer are more likely to influence any sort of positive improvement, a 15 to 19 million reasons muric won't get the nod however disgruntled certain fans become.

He’s happy to not play Odobert who was similarly expensive (not in squads earlier in season). I wouldn’t say Cork and Redmond were incremental tweaks. Certainly ups the experience level by quite a distance. Maybe they can or cannot do 90, but 65-70 mins may make all the difference. We look like little boys lost at the moment.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:36 pm

He’s happy to not play Odobert who was similarly expensive (not in squads earlier in season). I wouldn’t say Cork and Redmond were incremental tweaks. Certainly ups the experience level by quite a distance. Maybe they can or cannot do 90, but 65-70 mins may make all the difference. We look like little boys lost at the moment.

I do think a lot of it is change for change sake he’s playing his strongest 11 (bar injuries) at the moment & where he’s going wrong is not primarily a selection issue it’s what he’s instructing them to do, he’s instructing them wrong or they aren’t listening to him or maybe a combination of the 2. It’s not going to make a massive difference shuffling the pack.

Good question. My thoughts:

- Play Muric. We’re trying to play possession-based football without our best passer. He needs to be brought in immediately. With a cup game next there’s an easy route for Kompany if he plays well at Everton.

- Change formation. We need to hunker down and start to pick up clean sheets and points. We need to stay in touch until Jan. Perhaps with 5-4-1. Basically anything that makes us more solid.

- Play Cork. I know he’s not the long term answer, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have the legs to play at this level anymore, but our failure to strengthen midfield in summer leaves us in a position where it’s necessary. So we have to find a position/system where we can benefit from his experience and reading of the game without exposing his pace too much.

- Be more direct. Nothing annoys me more than the short corners that we fk up, or the short backward FK’s in our own half that end up back with our keeper.

- Start looking now at experienced players who are out of favour at their current clubs and try to bring them in on loan in Jan. Forget perms. The quality we need will not want to join us now and we can’t afford the financial risks. Seek experience that are not getting games, where we can do them a favour and hopefully they’ll give us something back.

- Hope we get our CB’s back very, very quickly.

Fortunately for us Luton and Sheff Utd and Bournemouth, from what I have seen so far will struggle to put any run together. But can we finish above three-I wish I could say with some confidence. Had we come away with one or three points today would be more confident. Can we finish above Everton-highly unlikely as they have a better all round team and will not make the same mistakes we make every game.The pressure VK is under means I am not seeing the same manager who was so in control last season. I would like to think Bellamy and Jackson can influence his selection and tactics

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:13 pm

We need to remember those early games when managers were praising us as being a really good side even if they had beaten us. It’ll come together.

I never believe the crap opposition managers come out with. They are not going to say their opponents are the worst team they've ever played!

I remember we got these sort of comments when Jimmy Adamson's 'Team of the Seventies' was relegated in 1970/71. We deserved to be relegated. To be fair though, after a few inspired additions (notably Keith Newton) they became a top quality team.

'where do we go from here'

Right now it's pretty obviously The Championship.

A lot of fans are in a state of mourning now, many had hopes and dreams of chasing Europe with our best-ever Championship team only to find ourselves watching our worst-ever Prem team...it's hard to process at the moment(almost like a sudden death in the family)

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:03 pm

No more 4-3-3/4-1-4-1

4-2-3-1

Dedicated two man sitting midfield. Mix it up a bit going long/over the top

Bring our players in that have played at a higher level with more experience (eg Redmond, Larsen), take the raw youngsters out of the side (Amdouni, Koleosho, Trafford, Al-Dakhil)

Think Vitinho can keep his place - but stop with the fullbacks coming into midfield nonsense. Have our midfielders play in midfield and fill the gaps in defence ie if a fullback bombs on.

VK seems to have forgotten all the matches he set up the team in 4-2-3-1 last season.

Playing 4-3-3 with our players is just not going to work. It only works if you have world class players in every position like Man City or Liverpool who can cover loads of ground and retain the ball, which we cannot do for any length of time presently.


Yesterday we had Amdouni JBg and kolo as our front three as I predicted your just asking for trouble playing like that.

We are not going to win any games playing this crap system he needs to wake up fast.

getbennyon wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:17 am

'where do we go from here'

Right now it's pretty obviously The Championship.

A lot of fans are in a state of mourning now, many had hopes and dreams of chasing Europe with our best-ever Championship team only to find ourselves watching our worst-ever Prem team...it's hard to process at the moment(almost like a sudden death in the family)

It’s a travesty isn’t it - it proper boggles my mind.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:09 pm

Good question. My thoughts:.

- Be more direct. Nothing annoys me more than the short corners that we fk up, or the short backward FK’s in our own half that end up back with our keeper.

One free kick in the attacking half of the centre circle went sideways and back to the keeper in two kicks.

BobSykes wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:17 pm

Everton for a start midweek and a very welcome Cup game distraction. If the Cup squad give a decent showing surely even Klueless will have to wake up and smell the coffee for next weekend's fixture??

Klueless? Is there any need?

I’m pretty sure you’ve chastised every manager we’ve had since this forum’s debut.

Sean Dyche’s football was turgid at times but because we were more direct and had the physical strength all over the pitch there was always a chance of a win ,however after half a dozen games last season I said I didn’t mind if we lost because our football was so easy on the eye ,what the hells happened?