• Frustrated/angry

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:30 pm**

I feel really angry/frustrated after that.

I'm frustrated that it took us until just before the 90th minute to show anything in that second half. Fair play to Berge. Looks to have some quality in flashes, in a poor team.

I'm really angry about the use of VAR. If they check two angles with different outcomes over five minutes they should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the scorer. VAR in the Premier League is being used to find any reason to chalk off goals, and it's really ruining some games. It is far from enjoyable to watch the PL at the moment. I'm tempted to say if that's United or City today they don't check twice, but I don't know.

Frustrating. But that thread saying its time for to VK to go is absolutely ridiculous. We look far from good enough at the moment. But long term he is absolutely the man I trust to take the club forward.

All in all just p*ssed off. But not the time for decisions based on a knee jerk reaction.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm**

Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:33 pm**

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:30 pm
I feel really angry/frustrated after that.

I'm frustrated that it took us until just before the 90th minute to show anything in that second half. Fair play to Berge. Looks to have some quality in flashes, in a poor team.

I'm really angry about the use of VAR. If they check two angles with different outcomes over five minutes they should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the scorer. VAR in the Premier League is being used to find any reason to chalk off goals, and it's really ruining some games. It is far from enjoyable to watch the PL at the moment. I'm tempted to say if that's United or City today they don't check twice, but I don't know.

Frustrating. But that thread saying its time for to VK to go is absolutely ridiculous. We look far from good enough at the moment. But long term he is absolutely the man I trust to take the club forward.

All in all just p*ssed off. But not the time for decisions based on a knee jerk reaction.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

Agreed Armchairdetective ... Some should calm down and chill before posting

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:34 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm
Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

You really need to stop banging this drum. Who would you replace him with?

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:35 pm**

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:30 pm
I feel really angry/frustrated after that.

I'm frustrated that it took us until just before the 90th minute to show anything in that second half. Fair play to Berge. Looks to have some quality in flashes, in a poor team.

I'm really angry about the use of VAR. If they check two angles with different outcomes over five minutes they should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the scorer. VAR in the Premier League is being used to find any reason to chalk off goals, and it's really ruining some games. It is far from enjoyable to watch the PL at the moment. I'm tempted to say if that's United or City today they don't check twice, but I don't know.

Frustrating. But that thread saying its time for to VK to go is absolutely ridiculous. We look far from good enough at the moment. But long term he is absolutely the man I trust to take the club forward.

All in all just p*ssed off. But not the time for decisions based on a knee jerk reaction.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

Totally agree

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:36 pm**

roperclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:34 pm
You really need to stop banging this drum. Who would you replace him with?

I’ve already given my list 3 times.

But Tbf regardless who we bring it, it really can’t get much worse.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:37 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm
Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

Yet another thread where you say the same thing time after time. Elsewhere on here you've said 100% VK will be gone by Christmas - any chance we can say the same about you?

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:39 pm**

Not saying that VK should go or that he's out of his depth, but to be fair, its his job to sort things out, to state the obvious.
Think his main job now is to get the players chins up off their chests, the lack of confidence is patently obvious.

Yes we've got injuries but so do other teams.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:39 pm**

Questioning is one thing. Calling for his head is another. Most fans I hope have some rational thinking between the two.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:39 pm**

roperclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:34 pm
You really need to stop banging this drum. Who would you replace him with?

We couldn't afford to get rid of him and his staff, even if we wanted to, which we shouldn't

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:40 pm**

Just looked and both Forest and Wolves had 10 points after 14 games last year. Both stayed up relatively comfortably. Long way to go and we have a lot of home games against teams we need to beat. The last two games have been up there with the worst in the PL I've ever seen - but - a long way to go yet.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:42 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:36 pm
I’ve already given my list 3 times.

But Tbf regardless who we bring it, it really can’t get much worse.

Enlighten me. I started going back through your posts but got bored after all your comments on todays match thread

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:42 pm**

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:39 pm
Questioning is one thing. Calling for his head is another. Most fans I hope have some rational thinking between the two.

It was much better when this site used to fall over after a defeat for a couple of days, by which time the bedwetters had forgotten it even happened.......shame they fixed it

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:42 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm
Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

Completely agree.

I was OK with writing off our first three games so he can experiment with players and overall system. It looked like we are improving with decent performances against Forest and United but we have been free falling since Newcastle game.

On top of poor results, he keeps making same mistakes again. Still doesn't know his best eleven and his game plan doesn't exist.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:44 pm**

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:30 pm
I feel really angry/frustrated after that.

I'm frustrated that it took us until just before the 90th minute to show anything in that second half. Fair play to Berge. Looks to have some quality in flashes, in a poor team.

I'm really angry about the use of VAR. If they check two angles with different outcomes over five minutes they should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the scorer. VAR in the Premier League is being used to find any reason to chalk off goals, and it's really ruining some games. It is far from enjoyable to watch the PL at the moment. I'm tempted to say if that's United or City today they don't check twice, but I don't know.

Frustrating. But that thread saying its time for to VK to go is absolutely ridiculous. We look far from good enough at the moment. But long term he is absolutely the man I trust to take the club forward.

All in all just p*ssed off. But not the time for decisions based on a knee jerk reaction.

Onwards and hopefully upwards.

They can't give the benefit of the doubt can they if the onfield decision was offside? I thought they had to find a clear error to overturn it..

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:47 pm**

ervi34 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:42 pm
Completely agree.

I was OK with writing off our first three games so he can experiment with players and overall system. It looked like we are improving with decent performances against Forest and United but we have been free falling since Newcastle game.

On top of poor results, he keeps making same mistakes again. Still doesn't know his best eleven and his game plan doesn't exist.

VK honestly looks Miles out of his depth. Doesn’t even look remotely close to being ready for this level.

Burnley fans have a weird obsession of being loyal over the benefit of the club.

The next three games will very likely result in three losses. I think this is almost decision time for the owners.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:49 pm**

I think we can all accept at times that we'll play poorly and get beat.
But the more I watch us the more they show there is no togetherness; there's no spirit in this team, no band of brothers, no leader(s).
This is what will ultimately take us down. We can't even scrap for a point/draw. A bunch of individuals playing for themselves, for their own careers, brought in to raise cash and the club blatantly just using them for the shop window. That's the message given out and the construction of the squad shows that. Sad really that we had such a long time to look for players and our main thought to achieve survival was focused on the individual rather than the team. Individual quality is important, but a team spirit is worth so much more. When times are tough, you dig in and you fight. You don't play like we did today and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Gutless and that includes the manager. All this is is pride and being VK. Well, it's nonsense and it'll take us down if we continue down this road. Get organised, get solid, get some blocks in, help out ya teammates and stop leaking goals, and then we can start playing like we're Ajax!

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:53 pm**

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:44 pm
They can't give the benefit of the doubt can they if the onfield decision was offside? I thought they had to find a clear error to overturn it..

I thought they did on the first angle

No i do understand that. Doesn't make it less frustrating though. And bigger picture VAR is taking more from the game than giving to it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:55 pm**

Can’t see us beating Derby’s 11 points

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm**

Here's my frustration:
All last season, every single game, we played out through Muric or Cullen dropping into the back line

This season we aren't doing either.

It's unfathomable that a man who is supposed to be super smart is doing something as stupid as he is this season

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:03 pm**

roperclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:34 pm
You really need to stop banging this drum. Who would you replace him with?

He won’t stop banging the drum he absolutely thrives for moments like this. Nowhere to be seen on here last season at 5pm funnily enough.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:06 pm**

Even on the radio, it sounded like confidence is the issue. In the second half, Bournemouth were well on top because we were scared of losing the point and didn't have the confidence to go forward. Then Bournemouth scored and suddenly they weren't confident of winning while we had nothing to lose, and went forward and "scored" once and nearly "scored" another.

I don't know if that confidence will reappear or how to get it there (solidifying the defence would help a lot, of course) but that's what we need most.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:07 pm**

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:03 pm
He won’t stop banging the drum he absolutely thrives for moments like this. Nowhere to be seen on here last season at 5pm funnily enough.

Just every single match thread haha

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:10 pm**

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm
Here's my frustration:
All last season, every single game, we played out through Muric or Cullen dropping into the back line

This season we aren't doing either.

It's unfathomable that a man who is supposed to be super smart is doing something as stupid as he is this season

Cullen stunk today and we don’t have either a midfield or defence capable of receiving a ball and using it effectively. The conditions were atrocious but certainly not boggy enough to warrant Cullen’s running through treacle display.

Not wanting to spark up the Muric debate again, but put him in this team and the shortcomings in defence and midfield would, I feel, be even further amplified.

Quite why we persist with the slow, laboured passing around the back, when it invites so much pressure, I can’t fathom. We’ve not brought in the players to play how we seem to want to.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:13 pm**

Conditions were nowhere near atrocious. A bit windy and wet, nothing that we don't see in Burnley on a regular basis.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 pm**

DCWat wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:10 pm

Quite why we persist with the slow, laboured passing around the back, when it invites so much pressure, I can’t fathom. We’ve not brought in the players to play how we seem to want to.

Part of the issue of playing out from the back seems to be that he's trying to emulate Guardiola, but without the players. An experienced No 2 might help greatly and offer more advice.

We are lacking experience badly and it's costing us, not just in the playing staff.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:23 pm**

dvalley69 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:49 pm
I think we can all accept at times that we'll play poorly and get beat.
But the more I watch us the more they show there is no togetherness; there's no spirit in this team, no band of brothers, no leader(s).
This is what will ultimately take us down. We can't even scrap for a point/draw. A bunch of individuals playing for themselves, for their own careers, brought in to raise cash and the club blatantly just using them for the shop window. That's the message given out and the construction of the squad shows that.....

Couldn't agree more.

Its getting clearer as time goes on. That its not just basic recruitment that VK has messed up. But he's ripped the heart out of the good that Dyche did install. Something he himself said he wanted to keep.

He's showed not loyalty those players that got him promoted. And the players he's bought in know they're just a commodity. Of all the errors he's made / is making. This is the biggest.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:27 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm
Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

Perhaps the club is out of its depth. Posters on here thinking that a 90 million euro net spend over 3 windows will get us a PL standard squad are delusional.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:38 pm**

Spijed wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 pm
Part of the issue of playing out from the back seems to be that he's trying to emulate Guardiola, but without the players. An experienced No 2 might help greatly and offer more advice.

We are lacking experience badly and it's costing us, not just in the playing staff.

Everybody tries to play out from the back.
The problem for me is, as Gary O'Neil said on MNF. You have to be pragmatic, if the routes through the middle don't open up, you practice the long ball. City, Villa and Spurs all hurt us with the long ball, but we don't have one. We miss Maatsen, Beyer and especially Muric. This team just pass around at the back until the inevitable happens.
Experience is definitely a big problem, what this team does wouldn't happen with a Joey Barton on the pitch, because he would be ripping somebody a new one.
The biggest worry is VK has so far, done nothing to fix the obvious issues, more of the same isn't going to help anybody.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:45 pm**

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:44 pm
Whatever you wet wipe.

Why are you calling me a wet wipe I’m not the one making up stories

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:51 pm**

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:44 pm
They can't give the benefit of the doubt can they if the onfield decision was offside? I thought they had to find a clear error to overturn it..

And isn’t this where the lino should have kept his soddin flag down if it was that close? It would have been checked anyway - clearly so close the human eye couldn’t have measured it in real time…the fact he put that up means it’s to be clear and obvious (maybe be wrong tho) but with flag up and VAR clearly at odds again they find a way to go with Lino…..and it all deflects from what seems to have been another inept performance.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:23 pm**

When we went down with Sean Dyche we often came away feeling badly done to especially in the games against Arsenal when the scored offside goals,and the Norwich keeper wiping Vydra out ,but this side is showing no fight whatsoever and the feeling after the games are that we are just not showing any fight .

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:00 pm**

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:44 pm
They can't give the benefit of the doubt can they if the onfield decision was offside? I thought they had to find a clear error to overturn it..

Not for offside. Once it goes to VAR, the linesman's opinion is irrelevant. If they decided that VAR wasn't working, then they would stick with the linesman's decision, but otherwise they would only disallow the goal if VAR proved with certainty that the goal was offside.

(the fact that for four and a half minutes it was too close to call does not necessarily mean that the decision couldn't be proved in the fifth. Sometimes it takes a long time to gather evidence.)

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:03 pm**

To many players out of form
To many players not getting enough settled game time to find form, especially the wingers

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:03 pm**

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:00 pm
Not for offside. Once it goes to VAR, the linesman's opinion is irrelevant. If they decided that VAR wasn't working, then they would stick with the linesman's decision, but otherwise they would only disallow the goal if VAR proved with certainty that the goal was offside.

(the fact that for four and a half minutes it was too close to call does not necessarily mean that the decision couldn't be proved in the fifth. Sometimes it takes a long time to gather evidence.)

VAR are terrified of getting decisions wrong (after recent mistakes) that's why even simple obvious decisions are taking longer to decide. The pressure on VAR to get decisions right are immense.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:09 pm**

Carwin261 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:23 pm
When we went down with Sean Dyche we often came away feeling badly done to especially in the games against Arsenal when the scored offside goals,and the Norwich keeper wiping Vydra out ,but this side is showing no fight whatsoever and the feeling after the games are that we are just not showing any fight .

Same posters who wanted Dyche sacked for so long on here will be same ones wanting Kompany to go. They love revelling in misery.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:09 pm**

dvalley69 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:49 pm
I think we can all accept at times that we'll play poorly and get beat.
But the more I watch us the more they show there is no togetherness; there's no spirit in this team, no band of brothers, no leader(s).
This is what will ultimately take us down. We can't even scrap for a point/draw. A bunch of individuals playing for themselves, for their own careers, brought in to raise cash and the club blatantly just using them for the shop window. That's the message given out and the construction of the squad shows that. Sad really that we had such a long time to look for players and our main thought to achieve survival was focused on the individual rather than the team. Individual quality is important, but a team spirit is worth so much more. When times are tough, you dig in and you fight. You don't play like we did today and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Gutless and that includes the manager. All this is is pride and being VK. Well, it's nonsense and it'll take us down if we continue down this road. Get organised, get solid, get some blocks in, help out ya teammates and stop leaking goals, and then we can start playing like we're Ajax!

Completely agree

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:14 pm**

We also simply have to beat palace

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:20 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:32 pm
Serious question,

Why is it ridiculous to question a manager that is clearly miles out of his depth?

It isn’t like we are just losing after some really closely fought out games. We are getting demolished week in week out

It’s difficult to think who else might be able to get a tune out of such a massively unbalanced squad. I suppose it comes down to how responsible he is for that. For me, he’s still got plenty of credit left for last season, but at the moment he does look like he’s floundering a bit.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:47 am**

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:02 pm
Here's my frustration:
All last season, every single game, we played out through Muric or Cullen dropping into the back line

This season we aren't doing either.

It's unfathomable that a man who is supposed to be super smart is doing something as stupid as he is this season

'All last season, every single game, we played out through Muric or Cullen dropping into the back line. This season we aren't doing either.'

We've tried it (although of course not with Muric) but the opposition has no respect for us that we can actually do it so they press us and it shows they are right. So all teams have to do is press us and the mistakes we inevitably make will generate opportunities. We lose.

Most other Prem teams, with better players, can cope better with this press, at least to some degree. If they can't they make other options. Pressing draws players forward leaving spaces behind which can be played into. We can't do that either because we don't have the movement, or energy, and our passing is not good enough. We can't win.

That sums up what I've seen anyway.

What's it require for us to succeed with this modern system?

Better players? Well we didn't get them in the summer despite what we spent.

More or better training? That will take time and it seems obvious that some of these players - e.g. Brownhill, Roberts, O'Shea, and perhaps others - will never get that ability.

A different style? For that I think we need other players.

'It's unfathomable that a man who is supposed to be super smart is doing something as stupid as he is this season.'

If he (and the Board who have agreed to this) is being smart in some way us mortals don't understand - mortals simply wanting us to stay up - it must be this idea that this 'project' is long term and doesn't require us to stay up. The idea of developing and selling players that's been hinted at but never fully explained in connection with on field performances.

Another possibility, which I'm inclined to give some credence too, is that the Board were so in awe of what VK achieved with new young players in such a short space of time that they believed he could repeat this in The Prem.. You can see a little bit of this awe in the Mission Burnley series. This is my great fear, another John Bond fiasco with finances.

A third possibility is that VK is just not as smart as he thinks and we've all been taken in.

With any of these it's surely relegation and a missing/wasted season. I know it's only ten games but we've played the best and worst and I see no evidence of any other outcome. I hope and wish I'm wrong.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:08 am**

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:06 pm
Even on the radio, it sounded like confidence is the issue. In the second half, Bournemouth were well on top because we were scared of losing the point and didn't have the confidence to go forward. Then Bournemouth scored and suddenly they weren't confident of winning while we had nothing to lose, and went forward and "scored" once and nearly "scored" another.

I don't know if that confidence will reappear or how to get it there (solidifying the defence would help a lot, of course) but that's what we need most.

This is the key I think.

Watched the whole 90 minutes on good quality TV with commentary and replays. Our players were scared, not doing the basics, i.e. Vitinho’s pass to them for their winner. This is typical in a relegation threatened team but as we lack experience it appears more stark because there is nobody to take a grip of them. We see it in other sports too, e.g. when a golfer has the lead he looks rubbish then when he gets caught he starts playing again.

When we went behind it was like the shackles were off, once we regrouped we looked better in those moments than Bournemouth did in their moments earlier, and nearly scored 2 goals in just 7 minutes. They couldn’t handle players like Berge and Redmond.

So obviously the key is to play like this all the time, which is down to VK to instil, but it isn’t easy. A new manager would face the same problems hence the calls for him to go are just brainless.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:21 am**

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:09 pm
Same posters who wanted Dyche sacked for so long on here will be same ones wanting Kompany to go. They love revelling in misery.

If they loved revelling in misery surely they'd have wanted Dyche to stay at the end of his time here and they'd want these results to carry on under VK?

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:43 am**

Not seen that much of the previous two games for various reasons, but I said a while ago that I thought our chances this season rested heavily on Foster and Bayer staying fit and nothing has changed my view. The fact they've missed a significant number of games has been a major handicap to our season to date. Bayer is probably our best defender, and Foster is our only centre forward of Premier League calibre capable of giving us a physical presence. The sooner they are both available the better.

Aside from that, and the obvious lack of confidence, there are three things that need to change. Firstly, we've got to revert to a double pivot and I remain of the view that Berge should be playing deeper alongside Cullen, with Brownhill ahead to lead the press. One of those defensive midfielders has to stay goalside at all times- we conceded 2 goals yesterday because we gave away the ball in midfield and immediately they were running at our back four.

Secondly, we need the wide players to offer more defensively- both in the press and tracking runners. Notably Koleosho for example was miles away from tracking runners on a couple of MoTD highlights last night and that is not good enough. We've missed Tella's goal threat and channel option (see below) but we've also missed his willingness and aptitude for the ugly stuff - perhaps more.

Thirdly, we need to use the channels better and I think Brownhill can help with that in a more advanced role. He can also improve our press. Foster can also do more to give us an option for the long ball to mix thr game up. Taylor and Vitinho take the blame for their errors yesterday but this happens because teams know we cannot or will not look long.

I don't think our summer business was very good (too many lightweight wide attackers, too few players to add physicality or depth at either end of the pitch) but there is a team to be fashioned from a back four of Taylor, Bayer Roberts plus one, a midfield 3 of Berge Cullen and Brownhill, with Foster up top, Amdouni playing off one flank and one of our numerous other wingers playing opposite. The final thing to do is stick to that sort of template. There's far too much chopping and changing right now.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:08 pm**

claretspice wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:43 am
Not seen that much of the previous two games for various reasons, but I said a while ago that I thought our chances this season rested heavily on Foster and Bayer staying fit and nothing has changed my view. The fact they've missed a significant number of games has been a major handicap to our season to date. Bayer is probably our best defender, and Foster is our only centre forward of Premier League calibre capable of giving us a physical presence. The sooner they are both available the better.

Aside from that, and the obvious lack of confidence, there are three things that need to change. Firstly, we've got to revert to a double pivot and I remain of the view that Berge should be playing deeper alongside Cullen, with Brownhill ahead to lead the press. One of those defensive midfielders has to stay goalside at all times- we conceded 2 goals yesterday because we gave away the ball in midfield and immediately they were running at our back four.

Secondly, we need the wide players to offer more defensively- both in the press and tracking runners. Notably Koleosho for example was miles away from tracking runners on a couple of MoTD highlights last night and that is not good enough. We've missed Tella's goal threat and channel option (see below) but we've also missed his willingness and aptitude for the ugly stuff - perhaps more.

Thirdly, we need to use the channels better and I think Brownhill can help with that in a more advanced role. He can also improve our press. Foster can also do more to give us an option for the long ball to mix thr game up. Taylor and Vitinho take the blame for their errors yesterday but this happens because teams know we cannot or will not look long.

I don't think our summer business was very good (too many lightweight wide attackers, too few players to add physicality or depth at either end of the pitch) but there is a team to be fashioned from a back four of Taylor, Bayer Roberts plus one, a midfield 3 of Berge Cullen and Brownhill, with Foster up top, Amdouni playing off one flank and one of our numerous other wingers playing opposite. The final thing to do is stick to that sort of template. There's far too much chopping and changing right now.

Pretty much spot on I reckon. We need solid foundations to build on, otherwise we continue to crumble.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:52 pm**

claretspice wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:43 am
Not seen that much of the previous two games for various reasons, but I said a while ago that I thought our chances this season rested heavily on Foster and Bayer staying fit and nothing has changed my view. The fact they've missed a significant number of games has been a major handicap to our season to date. Bayer is probably our best defender, and Foster is our only centre forward of Premier League calibre capable of giving us a physical presence. The sooner they are both available the better.

Aside from that, and the obvious lack of confidence, there are three things that need to change. Firstly, we've got to revert to a double pivot and I remain of the view that Berge should be playing deeper alongside Cullen, with Brownhill ahead to lead the press. One of those defensive midfielders has to stay goalside at all times- we conceded 2 goals yesterday because we gave away the ball in midfield and immediately they were running at our back four.

Secondly, we need the wide players to offer more defensively- both in the press and tracking runners. Notably Koleosho for example was miles away from tracking runners on a couple of MoTD highlights last night and that is not good enough. We've missed Tella's goal threat and channel option (see below) but we've also missed his willingness and aptitude for the ugly stuff - perhaps more.

Thirdly, we need to use the channels better and I think Brownhill can help with that in a more advanced role. He can also improve our press. Foster can also do more to give us an option for the long ball to mix thr game up. Taylor and Vitinho take the blame for their errors yesterday but this happens because teams know we cannot or will not look long.

I don't think our summer business was very good (too many lightweight wide attackers, too few players to add physicality or depth at either end of the pitch) but there is a team to be fashioned from a back four of Taylor, Bayer Roberts plus one, a midfield 3 of Berge Cullen and Brownhill, with Foster up top, Amdouni playing off one flank and one of our numerous other wingers playing opposite. The final thing to do is stick to that sort of template. There's far too much chopping and changing right now.

Not something I thought I’d be saying but, defensively we miss Barnes.

Foster has probably been our best player this year but even so, Barnes was a key part in leading that high press that was so effective last season.

Yes, we’re up against better players, but we’ve been so ineffective in this part of our game as there’s been no one taking the lead and coordinating that press this year.

For all the obvious talent and potential Amdouni has, defensively he’s an empty shirt. Foster individually presses but he hasn’t got the experience yet to coordinate it.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:56 pm**

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:52 pm
Not something I thought I’d be saying but, defensively we miss Barnes.

Foster has probably been our best player this year but even so, Barnes was a key part in leading that high press that was so effective last season.

Yes, we’re up against better players, but we’ve been so ineffective in this part of our game as there’s been no one taking the lead and coordinating that press this year.

For all the obvious talent and potential Amdouni has, defensively he’s an empty shirt. Foster individually presses but he hasn’t got the experience yet to coordinate it.

Agree, and in part the reason I'd employ Brownhill in a more advanced role with a focus on the press. He does have the experience to lead it. I'd also be sorely tempted to start with one of JBG or Redmond opposite Amdouni because they are also experienced in that high press, and you can even make an argument for both of them ahead of Amdouni.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:17 pm**

Just to note: apart from the 1-0 loss v. Manchester United, all of Burnley's Premier League matches to date have seen 2 or more goals, and the 2nd goal in those 9 matches has always been scored by the opposition.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:25 pm**

As mentioned above; we just don’t have the players to play the passing game we want to play at this level as our defenders/midfielders aren’t good enough at passing out and beating the press. However, we also don’t have the personnel to play a direct game either, so we are very much left in a quandary.

We have to persist with the passing game, but perhaps with some tweaks.

1. Muric has to start. Trafford May develop into a good goalkeeper (don’t think he will ever be as good as some seem to think) but our game relies on a keeper who can pass quickly and accurately, short and long. Arguably, we have missed Muric’s long game more than his short, he nearly always finds a Burnley shirt with a ping, whereas Trafford rarely does.

2. We have to play with a double pivot, and the AM needs to also be able to drop in and create a genuine 3 when we are getting overrun, so Berge, Brownhill/Cork and Cullen have to play together every game.

3. Our midfielders need to be able to press high, and willing to do the work with and without the ball. They also need to be technically proficient enough to keep the ball, despite Koleosho and Odoberts pace they just can’t keep the ball. Our two wingers need to come from Redmond, Larsen, JBG and Zaroury (with Benson perhaps coming on to cause havoc)

4. Foster has to play every game, but when he can’t, Jay has to be next choice. Amdouni is never a number 9, and to be honest, I don’t see where he, Tresor, Ramsey etc fit at the moment.

5. Our centre backs have to be comfortable on the ball, so the first choice has to be Beyer and Ekdal, with AAD as first reserve. O’Shea and Delcroix are both terrible (made my decision on O’Shea after the Spurs game)

A back to basics approach (of sorts) is needed, but definitely not ripping up the blueprint and starting again.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:29 pm**

bumba wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:21 am
If they loved revelling in misery surely they'd have wanted Dyche to stay at the end of his time here and they'd want these results to carry on under VK?

Far too sensible a question

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:30 pm**

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:14 pm
We also simply have to beat palace

We do from a confidence point of view and much needed points but i think the performance will be the important factor next week. Perform similar to how we have then it could get nasty. If we play well and lose unluckily then at least we gain hope and have something to hang our hat on.

We need to see an improvement. A big one.

Frustrated/angry - more sensible Bournemouth reaction

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