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Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:34 pm
by Cleveleys_claret
Has the Premier League finally become a closed shop?
Looking at the league, and this was before today's fixture and having watched quite a lot of the matches this season so far, I do not believe we are good enough to lay a glove on any of the teams other than those we were promoted with.
Have we finally got to a stage where promotion and relegation is pretty much nailed on every year before the gap is so big? I know it's always been like that to a degree, but after several promotions, this time the league looks so strong compared to ourselves, Luton and Sheff Utd, and the standard in The Championship is as we saw last year, shocking and miles and miles away from the Premier League
We are so behind it is unbelievable. I personally don't lay the blame entirely with Kompany, we needed a big rebuild, and key positions were obviously out of our budget range, people talking about 100 million are way off, this is spread over several years and 1/2 sales a year would cover that. So we have a sustainable model as it stands.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:37 pm
by DCWat
Cleveleys_claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:34 pm
Has the Premier League finally become a closed shop?
Looking at the league, and this was before today's fixture and having watched quite a lot of the matches this season so far, I do not believe we are good enough to lay a glove on any of the teams other than those we were promoted with.
Have we finally got to a stage where promotion and relegation is pretty much nailed on every year before the gap is so big? I know it's always been like that to a degree, but after several promotions, this time the league looks so strong compared to ourselves, Luton and Sheff Utd, and the standard in The Championship is as we saw last year, shocking and miles and miles away from the Premier League
We are so behind it is unbelievable. I personally don't lay the blame entirely with Kompany, we needed a big rebuild, and key positions were obviously out of our budget range, people talking about 100 million are way off, this is spread over several years and 1/2 sales a year would cover that. So we have a sustainable model as it stands.
It’s only a closed shop if it’s not possible to compete with at least the bottom three.
We could easily have survived this season, with better recruitment.
We still can but we aren’t making it easy for ourselves.
Don’t mistake our woefully poor displays for the premier league being impossible for those coming up to crack. It’s possible, more than possible.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:53 pm
by Bordeauxclaret
I’m starting to think the Premier League is a really tough league and maybe a previous manager who battled to keep us there for so long perhaps deserves more credit from some.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:47 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:53 pm
I’m starting to think the Premier League is a really tough league and maybe a previous manager who battled to keep us there for so long perhaps deserves more credit from some.
Absolutely this, but there appears to be a lack of desire from some to acknowledge this
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:49 pm
by bumba
Everybody kept saying there's 3 teams worse than us, personally I'm struggling to see two teams worse than us. Were in a dog fight to just not finish bottom with a record points tally
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:54 pm
by Stayingup
Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:53 pm
I’m starting to think the Premier League is a really tough league and maybe a previous manager who battled to keep us there for so long perhaps deserves more credit from some.
You mean like the village idiot that posts from time to time. Strangely absent tonight.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:55 pm
by Florian
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:49 pm
Everybody kept saying there's 3 teams worse than us, personally I'm struggling to see two teams worse than us. Were in a dog fight to just not finish bottom with a record points tally
I still think there will be
Just needs to turn around fast
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:56 pm
by Woodleyclaret
With the cheating bxxxxxxx running VAR you are probably correct
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:56 pm
by NewClaret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:49 pm
Everybody kept saying there's 3 teams worse than us, personally I'm struggling to see two teams worse than us. Were in a dog fight to just not finish bottom with a record points tally
It’s a long season and time for things to improve. I feel our squad has more potential to improve than Sheffield United and Luton. Pretty confident we’ll finish above both of them but would agree that I’m struggling to see a fourth team worse than us.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:00 pm
by Terrier
Brilliant post.
The prem is getting so tough because of the stupid money being pumped in, like it or not we are just a small town club that I'm pretty sure sky would rather we did one to the championship, kompany knows this and is trying a plan that is to my mind long term, we need to buy into this plan and back him!
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:02 pm
by TheFamilyCat
All three promoted sides stayed up last season. If it is a closed shop, it's become one very quickly.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:03 pm
by kentonclaret
When we were relegated from the PL we were unable to retain a strong enough core of proven PL players apart from a few ageing performers coming to the end of their careers.
Having gained promotion with a newly acquired squad of players we were unable to retain the services of the top performing players(Tella, Maatsen etc) and failed to replace them adequately. Too many young players unproven at this level who are being found out in a squad lacking balance and a manager lacking experience.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:03 pm
by Casper2
Terrier wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:00 pm
Brilliant post.
The prem is getting so tough because of the stupid money being pumped in, like it or not we are just a small town club that I'm pretty sure sky would rather we did one to the championship, kompany knows this and is trying a plan that is to my mind long term, we need to buy into this plan and back him!
What a load of crap
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:06 pm
by Vegas Claret
TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:02 pm
All three promoted sides stayed up last season. If it is a closed shop, it's become one very quickly.
Bournemouth spent 100 million this summer to add to the 70 million they spent last
The gap is growing every single season. It wasn't too long ago the bottom teams were spending 20-40 and that was it
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:06 pm
by CoolClaret
Closed shop? Two losses to Brentford and Bournemouth who without trying to sound 'elitist' (if that's even possible as a burnley fan) are two clubs that haven't achieved anything near to what we've done combined in their history. So no - I don't think it is, at least not in being a low mid table team.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:07 pm
by bumba
NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:56 pm
It’s a long season and time for things to improve. I feel our squad has more potential to improve than Sheffield United and Luton. Pretty confident we’ll finish above both of them but would agree that I’m struggling to see a fourth team worse than us.
Think Luton look better than us now and Townsend is a great addition, I can see him hitting the winner at the Turf
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:08 pm
by ksrclaret
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:06 pm
Bournemouth spent 100 million this summer to add to the 70 million they spent last
The gap is growing every single season. It wasn't too long ago the bottom teams were spending 20-40 and that was it
We’ve spent anywhere between £80-100m.
We look uncompetitive against teams like Brentford and Bournemouth.
Conclusion - we’ve spent the money absolutely appallingly.
The PL is difficult, of course, but we should at least be able to compete if not get results.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:09 pm
by bumba
Florian wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:55 pm
I still think there will be
Just needs to turn around fast
Everybody keeps banging on about Everton and lost count of the Burnley fans that have laughed about Pickford but Everton have a better squad than us, better manager at this level than us, better keeper than us, more up top than us, better defensively than us.
I don't see anybody else in the bottom four
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:11 pm
by bumba
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:06 pm
Bournemouth spent 100 million this summer to add to the 70 million they spent last
The gap is growing every single season. It wasn't too long ago the bottom teams were spending 20-40 and that was it
The gap is growing but if we'd spent money on Scott and Aaron's we'd have been in a stronger position than we are now by just signing these two.
Doesn't matter what anybody else has spent we've spent all our cash in the wrong areas on the wrong players with no cohesion to the players bought and current squad
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:12 pm
by NewClaret
ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:08 pm
We’ve spent anywhere between £80-100m.
We look uncompetitive against teams like Brentford and Bournemouth.
Conclusion - we’ve spent the money absolutely appallingly.
The PL is difficult, of course, but we should at least be able to compete if not get results.
Out of interest, how much have Bournemouth and Brentford spent in the last 2 years?
I don’t know the answer - just useful context when quoting our spend.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:13 pm
by DAVETHEVICAR
It will be tougher next season when Leicester go up and will not struggle in the Top Flight
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:13 pm
by Vegas Claret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:11 pm
The gap is growing but if we'd spent money on Scott and Aaron's we'd have been in a stronger position than we are now by just signing these two.
Doesn't matter what anybody else has spent we've spent all our cash in the wrong areas on the wrong players with no cohesion to the players bought and current squad
Nah, Aarons is crap and an utter liability, Scott hardly set the world alight today against our misfiring team. We would have been better not buying 700 prospects and signed a few ready made PL players instead - that was our mistake
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:14 pm
by daveisaclaret
How can anyone come to the conclusion we can't lay a glove on anyone other than the other promoted teams when we drew at Forest and should have had a late winner?
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:16 pm
by ksrclaret
NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:12 pm
Out of interest, how much have Bournemouth and Brentford spent in the last 2 years?
I don’t know the answer - just useful context when quoting our spend.
I really don’t know, I’m sure it’s a large sum like other PL teams.
I don’t think that changes my point though. Having ourselves spent that much money, the absolute least we can expect is to be able to compete, if not get the results to stay up.
If we’d have bought some sensible, experienced heads we’d be looking in better shape. Instead we obsessed with 20-24 year old wingers and to hell with every other position.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:20 pm
by OrientMascot
All 3 promoted teams stayed up last season proving its not a closed shop. Spending £100m wisely and accepting you can’t outplay teams like you could in the championship would give you more than a fair chance
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:23 pm
by Vegas Claret
NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:12 pm
Out of interest, how much have Bournemouth and Brentford spent in the last 2 years?
I don’t know the answer - just useful context when quoting our spend.
Brentford (these are rough prices, converting from euros)
season 20/21 - 7 million
season 21/22 - 38 million
season 22/23 - 51 million
season 23/24 - 64 million
Bournemouth
20/21 - 700K
21/22 - 12 milion
22/23 - 83 million
23/24 - 127 million
so our 100 million team was up against a team that cost twice as much today
Forest
20/21 - 15 million
21/22 - 6.5 million
22/23 - 195 million
23/24 - 122 million
Burnley
20/21 - 1 million
21/22 - 49 million
22/23 - 43 million
23/24 - 110 million
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:28 pm
by NewClaret
Thanks Vegas. Great perspective.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:32 pm
by ksrclaret
Think we need SD back then, at least he could make the team competitive despite spending differences.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:07 pm
by bumba
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:13 pm
Nah, Aarons is crap and an utter liability, Scott hardly set the world alight today against our misfiring team. We would have been better not buying 700 prospects and signed a few ready made PL players instead - that was our mistake
100% agree about the prospects, they're only good if put alongside some experience. Looks at BHA they've got Dunk, March and Lallana etc guiding there young players.
I don't rate Aaron's much myself but he'd still be an improvement on Vitinho and Roberts
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:10 pm
by CoolClaret
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:13 pm
Nah, Aarons is crap and an utter liability, Scott hardly set the world alight today against our misfiring team. We would have been better not buying 700 prospects and signed a few ready made PL players instead - that was our mistake
Scott is overrated.
When we played Bristol City last season Pearson took him off in both games because he couldn’t deal with our press and tenacity.
We’re just that disjointed right now that we made him look half decent.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:36 pm
by Vegas Claret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:07 pm
100% agree about the prospects, they're only good if put alongside some experience. Looks at BHA they've got Dunk, March and Lallana etc guiding there young players.
exactly this, Brentford did similar too as did Forest
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:52 pm
by bumba
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:36 pm
exactly this, Brentford did similar too as did Forest
Don't think even Brentford went as young as us, Forest just bought anyone for sale. Unbelievable what Cooper has done to gel them,VK could learn offhim
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:07 pm
by Vegas Claret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:52 pm
Don't think even Brentford went as young as us, Forest just bought anyone for sale. Unbelievable what Cooper has done to gel them,VK could learn offhim
no they got the mix right for sure, we didn't learn from Southampton's mistakes. Long run we will be ok I think, we have to remember that other than a handful of players our entire team and our entire coaching/management staff are only 10 games into gaining experience at this level and sadly it's showing. They aren't showing signs of improving either and that for me is the biggest concern at the moment
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:16 pm
by bumba
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:07 pm
no they got the mix right for sure, we didn't learn from Southampton's mistakes. Long run we will be ok I think, we have to remember that other than a handful of players our entire team and our entire coaching/management staff are only 10 games into gaining experience at this level and sadly it's showing. They aren't showing signs of improving either and that for me is the biggest concern at the moment
They aren't showing signs of improvements but also VK isn't showing any signs of change, they won't improve if he keeps asking them to do what isn't working.
Sooner or later regardless of what the players think of VK they want to win regardless of style and if he keeps asking them to perform in a way that causes defeat they'll lose faith and respect for the guy. He has to change.
Southampton is a prime example it just doesn't work.
We still have the experience to make it work but he chooses not too
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:29 pm
by Vegas Claret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:16 pm
They aren't showing signs of improvements but also VK isn't showing any signs of change, they won't improve if he keeps asking them to do what isn't working.
Sooner or later regardless of what the players think of VK they want to win regardless of style and if he keeps asking them to perform in a way that causes defeat they'll lose faith and respect for the guy. He has to change.
Southampton is a prime example it just doesn't work.
We still have the experience to make it work but he chooses not too
yep, deffo quite a few decisions I question every time I see a team sheet
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:35 pm
by bumba
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:29 pm
yep, deffo quite a few decisions I question every time I see a team sheet
11 questions usually
sarcasm before a happy clapper melt down
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:37 pm
by Swizzlestick
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:52 pm
Don't think even Brentford went as young as us, Forest just bought anyone for sale. Unbelievable what Cooper has done to gel them,VK could learn offhim
Cooper has spent an absolute fortune and we should’ve beat them a few weeks back.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:44 pm
by bumba
Swizzlestick wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:37 pm
Cooper has spent an absolute fortune and we should’ve beat them a few weeks back.
Cooper hasn't spent anything, the owner buys it all at that club and he has to gel them. He's done a fantastic job
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:49 pm
by Swizzlestick
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:44 pm
Cooper hasn't spent anything, the owner buys it all at that club and he has to gel them. He's done a fantastic job
Ok, he had that money spent for him - including £40m plus on one player. We’d kill for a player of the quality of Gibbs-White (you’re not telling me Cooper had no say in that). They had 5 points after eleven games last season after a significantly higher fee/salary spend.
Maybe Kompany should be afforded the time you appear to have granted Cooper.
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:56 pm
by Vegas Claret
bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:35 pm
11 questions usually
sarcasm before a happy clapper melt down
I keep trying to clap happily but every time i smash my hands together it sounds like are saying **** off !
Re: Closed Shop
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:01 am
by ElectroClaret
Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:53 pm
I’m starting to think the Premier League is a really tough league and maybe a previous manager who battled to keep us there for so long perhaps deserves more credit from some.
Well said Bordeaux, post of the day.
sarcasm before a happy clapper melt down