• REPORT: Bournemouth brings another tough day on the road

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:36 pm**

Bournemouth v Burnley report

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/bournemout ... n-the-road

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:45 pm**

I know it won’t change the result but I really hope we complain to Howard Webb about the whole VAR fiasco. I don’t understand why the hand ball incident at the end of the game wasn’t looked at, not even discussed, who decides? VK should be given an explanation. Unfortunately I will never accept VAR, it’s completely ruining the game imo.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:36 pm**

beddie wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:45 pm
I know it won’t change the result but I really hope we complain to Howard Webb about the whole VAR fiasco. I don’t understand why the hand ball incident at the end of the game wasn’t looked at, not even discussed, who decides? VK should be given an explanation. Unfortunately I will never accept VAR, it’s completely ruining the game imo.

I’m far more concerned with our performances. That was dreadful again yesterday.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:38 am**

VAR is unfortunately a distraction and as ever CT spot on…..

The only thing I’d add is there seems no fight in this squad……….and I can’t understand why? It’s a platform surely they could only dream of but it’s just not there…….moans about atmosphere (away fans apart- superb as ever) but even if we go a goal up, it’s just as though we all know it won’t be long……

Anyway UTC!

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:45 am**

Can’t disagree with the report. Very accurate. Thanks Tony.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:09 am**

My worry is that Bournemouth were very poor but better than us !!

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:14 am**

There's no fight because we don't have fighters, and if we did who really wants to pick a fight with a guy who is taller and stronger ? Dreadful recruitment.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:47 am**

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:14 am
There's no fight because we don't have fighters, and if we did who really wants to pick a fight with a guy who is taller and stronger ? Dreadful recruitment.

We said on the way back how much the side lacks leadership and strength. I believe firstly we really have to start making more use of the Premier League experience we have. Last season in the Championship it benefited from the likes of Jack Cork and Ashley Barnes but those players have not been replaced. It will be interesting to see who replaces Josh Cullen next week; he's looked like someone unable to step up but he's not the only one.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:09 am**

beddie wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:45 pm
I know it won’t change the result but I really hope we complain to Howard Webb about the whole VAR fiasco. I don’t understand why the hand ball incident at the end of the game wasn’t looked at, not even discussed, who decides? VK should be given an explanation. Unfortunately I will never accept VAR, it’s completely ruining the game imo.

I soon as I heard his interviews that this was a distraction technique from Kompany.

I don’t blame him. Coming out afterwards and saying how awful his players are is not going to help matters; I’m sure he knows what needs to be addressed. That and it may just help garner some sense of injustice and unity in the team.

But I agree with you that these things do need complaining about and loudly. Take the Barnes penalty vs Tottenham last year - if that’s not given we may stay up. VAR gives a pen for a similar incident minus the shirt pull. I know all teams get the rough end of VAR decisions but at the bottom end they are huge in determining your fortunes so we should call them out when they’re wrong just as much as those at the top do. It won’t change the result but may sharpen minds for the forthcoming games.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:11 am**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:47 am
We said on the way back how much the side lacks leadership and strength. I believe firstly we really have to start making more use of the Premier League experience we have. Last season in the Championship it benefited from the likes of Jack Cork and Ashley Barnes but those players have not been replaced. It will be interesting to see who replaces Josh Cullen next week; he's looked like someone unable to step up but he's not the only one.

Agree entirely that a lack of physicality, strength and leadership are the qualities we are missing from our summer recruiting.

Really hope that is reflected upon for January and in future seasons regardless of what league we’re in.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:33 am**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:47 am
We said on the way back how much the side lacks leadership and strength. I believe firstly we really have to start making more use of the Premier League experience we have. Last season in the Championship it benefited from the likes of Jack Cork and Ashley Barnes but those players have not been replaced. It will be interesting to see who replaces Josh Cullen next week; he's looked like someone unable to step up but he's not the only one.

The drop off in performances has been alarming over the past few games. Can't really compare versus last season accurately but I suspect some of those performances last season would have been good enough against the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth. My main take is that extreme squad rotation might be a lot easier in a team doing well but possibly it is a lot harder to maintain squad morale when things are tough. Next week's line up will be interesting and will give a measure of how pragmatic Kompany wants to be. He is already coming across as a little broken which is quite worrying.

Personally I think the way to have started the season would have been to give the players from last season a chance to perform at this level and to slowly introduce the new signings. Looks like we are going about it the wrong way round.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:47 am**

This sounds bizarre, but if andcwhen Ekdal and Beyer are back I'd put OShea and AAD in midfield just for some physicality and height. Let's face it one or both of them couldn't do any worse. Really worrying our lack of presence. This team is screaming out for Jack Cork as well.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:53 pm**

Always feel that when someone resorts to 'couldn't do any worse' then desperation has well and truly set in.
Personally I've no idea where we go from now; I'm just a fan and a punter. Tactics are way beyond my skillset but putting two raw central defenders into midfield where neither have ever appeared before doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence for an upturn in form.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:09 pm**

Ct is spot on another dreadful performance. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do now till January,in the summer I was absolutely dumbfounded how we kept signing wide attacking players compared to what we signed to bolster the defence.it was without doubt an horrendous summer recruitment policy.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:07 pm**

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:33 am
Personally I think the way to have started the season would have been to give the players from last season a chance to perform at this level and to slowly introduce the new signings. Looks like we are going about it the wrong way round.

Exactly how it should be done. We're doing a Fulham from a couple of years ago and a Forest from last year. Come up, buy a new team, unnecessarily, and struggle.

Last year was revolution, this year should be evolution, not another revolution. We've signed some good players but most are less than raw and we've put them all straight in. That's what's killing us.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:21 pm**

Stantheman wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:09 pm
Ct is spot on another dreadful performance. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do now till January,in the summer I was absolutely dumbfounded how we kept signing wide attacking players compared to what we signed to bolster the defence.it was without doubt an horrendous summer recruitment policy.

Listen to the Bee Hole End podcast before the season started and they all voiced concerns at the number of wingers we were signing and identified 2 key roles that needed to be filled - one was a left full back and the other was an athletic defensive central midfielder. I wasn't unduly worried about the centre of defence back then with Beyer, AAD, Ekdal and OShea. Beyer and Ekdal for me have been a big miss, Taylor has done Ok when brought in at left back, the area of concern has moved to right back with Roberts not looking up to the task and Vitinho a worse option. I think we really have to play Cork, Cullen (when not suspended) and Brownhill/Berge in midfield and sacrifice one of the wider players to give us some kind of chance.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:56 pm**

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:33 am
The drop off in performances has been alarming over the past few games. Can't really compare versus last season accurately but I suspect some of those performances last season would have been good enough against the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth. My main take is that extreme squad rotation might be a lot easier in a team doing well but possibly it is a lot harder to maintain squad morale when things are tough. Next week's line up will be interesting and will give a measure of how pragmatic Kompany wants to be. He is already coming across as a little broken which is quite worrying.

Personally I think the way to have started the season would have been to give the players from last season a chance to perform at this level and to slowly introduce the new signings. Looks like we are going about it the wrong way round.

It's interesting how little football some of those players from last season have been given and add to that we lost three key promotion players who had been with us on loan and, of course, Ashley Barnes went. This team is nothing like and I do agree with you that last season's team would have offered a lot more at Brentford and Bournemouth. I was chatting to a Bournemouth fan on the way back to the car on Saturday and he said he couldn't believe how poor we were having seen us destroy (his word) Bournemouth in the FA Cup last Jan.

Quoon has referenced Fulham and Forest. Fulham went straight back down, it cost Forest a fortune in January to stay up.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:29 pm**

Can’t disagree with the report. I felt watching it on TV that Bournemouth had run themselves into the ground by 70 mins, as Tony suggests. The goal was yet another error and freak finish. Without it I felt we would have gone on to win because our subs were better than theirs (better than some of our starters probably), while accepting we were poor for long periods.

Maybe the solution is not to panic and to play some of those subs more - Redmond, Berge, Larsen, Jay (when Foster isn't on) etc.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:40 pm**

Agree with all sentiments in the report and in the comments. The point about us revolutionising the squad in a similar way to Fulham and Forest is striking.

I keep expecting the team to suddenly click and the new players to show what they’re about, but sadly with each passing game the performances are actually going backwards as the confidence takes another hit.

On to Crystal Palace then when the naive and ideological VK will come up against the vastly experienced and pragmatic Roy Hodgson. Everything points towards another defeat, but this is football.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:58 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:40 pm
Agree with all sentiments in the report and in the comments. The point about us revolutionising the squad in a similar way to Fulham and Forest is striking.

I keep expecting the team to suddenly click and the new players to show what they’re about, but sadly with each passing game the performances are actually going backwards as the confidence takes another hit.

On to Crystal Palace then when the naive and ideological VK will come up against the vastly experienced and pragmatic Roy Hodgson. Everything points towards another defeat, but this is football.

Hodgson’s experience and pragmatism hasn’t helped him in their last few performances.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:14 pm**

The main reasons for me are too many personnel changes too soon and a system that is great when you have better players all over the park than the opposition. Last season we were the Man City of the championship.

We have now recruited lots of players with more potential but we are trying to play the same football style with inferior players to the opponents. We can’t break the opposition press far enough up the pitch. We spent most of last season in the opponents half and can barely get out of our half this season.

I agree we need more experience but Cork, for example, in this system is an immediate booking (he was booked virtually every game last season). The midfield needs more protection and we need to remove the pressure with more mixed football. Not sure we now have the players for that style now. If Cork comes in it needs a style tweak.

The other factor is the premier league is getting harder and harder. Teams like Brighton and Villa were much poorer than they are now. I think we are better than 3 teams but not many more as I think we beat Bournemouth with Foster in the team. I think we need to be realistic and accept that this is a transition season and hopefully we can finish fourth bottom.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:24 pm**

I don't think it has anything to do with the players.

How would anyone on here feel like turning up for the Dog and Duck against the top team in the Burnley Sunday Sluggers league with 3 wingers and a whatever it is that Amdouni is - in a 4-3-3....?

I mean you'd probably just ring up the manager, Slugger O' Toole, waffle on about your gripey groin and arthritic knee and go back to bed.

There isn't a fan on here who seeing the team sheets against Brentford and Bournemouth didn't see a pasting coming.

The away fans are brilliant you can hear them the whole game but some must be on serious medication to get excited enough to sing when they see the team lining up like that.....!

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:47 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:29 pm

Maybe the solution is not to panic and to play some of those subs more - Redmond, Berge, Larsen, Jay (when Foster isn't on) etc.

I certainly would

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:47 pm**

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:53 pm
Always feel that when someone resorts to 'couldn't do any worse' then desperation has well and truly set in.
Personally I've no idea where we go from now; I'm just a fan and a punter. Tactics are way beyond my skillset but putting two raw central defenders into midfield where neither have ever appeared before doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence for an upturn in form.

Me neither but we might win a header or a 50-50.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:51 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:40 pm
Agree with all sentiments in the report and in the comments. The point about us revolutionising the squad in a similar way to Fulham and Forest is striking.

I keep expecting the team to suddenly click and the new players to show what they’re about, but sadly with each passing game the performances are actually going backwards as the confidence takes another hit.

On to Crystal Palace then when the naive and ideological VK will come up against the vastly experienced and pragmatic Roy Hodgson. Everything points towards another defeat, but this is football.

Could not be a better time to play Palace with both Eze and Olise injured.

This is our best opportunity this season to get a home win

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:10 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:51 pm
Could not be a better time to play Palace with both Eze and Olise injured.

This is our best opportunity this season to get a home win

Let's hope it turns out that way.

Will be nice to face a Palace side at home without Zaha playing as well.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:15 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:10 pm
Let's hope it turns out that way.

Will be nice to face a Palace side at home without Zaha playing as well.

The team they had out against Spurs was pretty poor (a team of seasoned pros).

There flair players all look to be injured so I am hopeful we can turn it around this week

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:36 pm**

According to Physio Room, neither Beyer nor Ekdal will be back soon. Which leaves us with two from AAD, O'Shea and Delcroix (the fourth option, Charlie Talyor has to be ruled out as he's required at LB) for central defence.

Where VK has to get it right is midfield. Personally, I'd bring Jack in even though his lack of mobility would be a serious issue.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:38 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:10 pm
Let's hope it turns out that way.

Will be nice to face a Palace side at home without Zaha playing as well.

Indeed. He nearly always played well at TM. He picked his days and despite Burnley being a long way north of Croydon it didn't seem to worry him.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:54 pm**

ecc wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:36 pm
According to Physio Room, neither Beyer nor Ekdal will be back soon. Which leaves us with two from AAD, O'Shea and Delcroix (the fourth option, Charlie Talyor has to be ruled out as he's required at LB) for central defence.

Where VK has to get it right is midfield. Personally, I'd bring Jack in even though his lack of mobility would be a serious issue.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

Looks like there's a small chance that Ekdal could be available.

That would be a huge boost.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:53 pm**

Hibsclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:14 pm
The main reasons for me are too many personnel changes too soon and a system that is great when you have better players all over the park than the opposition. Last season we were the Man City of the championship.

We have now recruited lots of players with more potential but we are trying to play the same football style with inferior players to the opponents. We can’t break the opposition press far enough up the pitch. We spent most of last season in the opponents half and can barely get out of our half this season.

I agree we need more experience but Cork, for example, in this system is an immediate booking (he was booked virtually every game last season). The midfield needs more protection and we need to remove the pressure with more mixed football. Not sure we now have the players for that style now. If Cork comes in it needs a style tweak.

The other factor is the premier league is getting harder and harder. Teams like Brighton and Villa were much poorer than they are now. I think we are better than 3 teams but not many more as I think we beat Bournemouth with Foster in the team. I think we need to be realistic and accept that this is a transition season and hopefully we can finish fourth bottom.

I think you need to be realistic and accept we aren’t better than 3 teams , there was a lot more wrong with that performance on Saturday than Foster not playing.We will struggle against Sheff U playing like that , we were lucky against Luton .

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:02 pm**

Casper2 wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:53 pm
I think you need to be realistic and accept we aren’t better than 3 teams , there was a lot more wrong with that performance on Saturday than Foster not playing.We will struggle against Sheff U playing like that , we were lucky against Luton .

I tend to agree. That Luton equaliser was coming for some time before it did and I doubt many of us expected us to go straight down and score again. The one game where I think we played well and deserved to win was at Forest but these last two performances must have given everyone some real doubts about us.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:08 pm**

A few performances have been poor in more than one respect .
Billing said in his post match interview that they had practiced lobbing the goalie as they knew he would be out of his box.
Other teams have sussed us out. We are too easy to play against.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:18 pm**

Not sure why I need to be realistic when saying we hopefully finish fourth bottom. Being realistic we beat Luton and have lost 3 points due to VAR in games against rivals. To be realistic I’d need to make a prediction and I said hopefully. I am also looking at a bigger picture than the last 2 games when we weren’t at full strength in the last one of those. I suppose it’s better to be realistic and suggest we are already relegated after ten games.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:12 pm**

Hibsclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:18 pm
Being realistic we beat Luton and have lost 3 points due to VAR in games against rivals.

It's 2 points against Forest. VAR didn't really cost us anything on Saturday, there was no changing of a decision and Jay Rod was, once the correct lines were drawn, 27 centimetres offside.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:16 pm**

VAR don’t check handballs on the goal line then. It cost us because they didn’t do their job as usual in the 97th minute whether it was deserved or not.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:18 pm**

Hibsclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:16 pm
VAR don’t check handballs on the goal line then. It cost us because they didn’t do their job as usual in the 97th minute whether it was deserved or not.

Considered by the VAR officials that Berge had fouled their player, which they can't involve themselves in, but it ruled out checking for a potential penalty. I believe though, if VAR had been doing its job properly on Saturday, and it definitely didn't, then our goal could have been ruled out for offside and Taylor could have been sent off.

I was as annoyed as anyone with the ridiculous wait on Saturday but we weren't done by VAR in this game. We very much were, in my view, at Forest.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:30 pm**

So they considered it and got it wrong if they thought Berge fouled which he clearly didn’t. They make it up as they go along. I don’t think the ref blew for a foul and so they should have gone with that non decision and reviewed the handball that the ref had missed. Either way we are down on points due to VAR in a similar way to the ones that helped us relegated last time. I have no issue with any ridiculous wait so long as they get the decision right and offside is offside which is why our first goal was given as it was onside.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 am**

I struggle to get animated about Saturday because we deserved nothing and got nothing, although I felt our goal was legit as the ball clipped Amdouni who was standing onside but the deflection didn’t change the outcome (Zaroury was offside but not relevant), Taylor could have been fouled for their goal (wasn’t, but they get given all the time), Berge was both fouled at the end and also there was the clear handball.

So I feel we were the worse side but were also robbed by VAR.

Forest however we were the better side and also robbed by VAR.

When coupled with our penalty record over many years it does leave a sour taste and maybe suggests we are very naive - under all recent managers we don’t make a big fuss about certain things and I suspect it costs us whereas the histrionics of others (e.g. Rodri on Sunday) get rewarded.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:24 am**

All we can hope is we somehow can get some points until January and buy if we can a centre forward because Foster will be away in African Nations Cup and another left back.

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