January transfer window rumours.

[claretspice]

Bagged at Sheff United (and assisted their own goal) and bagged twice at Bournemouth.

He's perfect to have in a squad as an option. He offers something completely different to what we have.

I acknowledged that he played at Sheffield United - and of course he scored twice. However, we also got completely overwhelmed as a team at Sheffield United, not least physically. The following game against Rovers is one in which he didn't make much of an impact, and tellingly when we went away to another physical team (QPR) immediately after the world cup break, Benson was on the bench and JBG played wide on the right. I don't think the cup tie against Bournemouth adds much - it was a cup tie, and they're just different.

In response to claretspice, didn't want to quote all the text.

I said earlier that you need balance and the left side has a good balance, the right side doesn't due to the weakness at full back, that can't be argued. Add to this the change from Brownhill to Amdouni in the number 10 role this season and we are so vulnerable when turning the ball over.

We have been more pragmatic in recent weeks but not sure where we can get the right balance with the current squad, right back and central midfield being the obvious areas of concern.

Whilst I agree with the general observation about our balance in midfield, particularly in transition, there's not been much between Roberts/Vitinho and Taylor IMO and I don't think it's had any material effect on Benson's prospects this season.

Personally, I'd be more disappointed and surprised if Zaroury goes, given his relative age and (in my view) higher ceiling (VK's comments suggeted similar). But AG is right - these are fringe players now and if we're planning on holding onto a goodly number of those creative/wide players we signed last summer, even in the event of relegation, we're going to have to clear the decks somehow. If profits are being offered now for the likes of Zaroury and Benson, then there's sound financial logic to selling them and retaining others.

[agreenwood]

Linked with Brian Gil of Spurs according to Turf Cast.

[Goody1975]

Whilst I agree with the general observation about our balance in midfield, particularly in transition, there's not been much between Roberts/Vitinho and Taylor IMO and I don't think it's had any material effect on Benson's prospects this season.

I disagree, he started a game against Villa and struggled, he was hooked at half time and spent the next two games on the bench.

We cannot start with Foster, Amdouni, Odobert/Koleosho & Benson and not expect to get overrun with our midfield two and Vitinho at right back, it's just common sense.

If Amdouni plays then it's a straight choice between Odobert and Benson for the wide role, they can't both play.

Play a more pragmatic number 10 and maybe we can have two attacking wide players, we can't have our cake and eat it. Literally we'll be the one getting eaten alive at this level.

[GetIntoEm]

As much as I enjoyed Zaroury and Benson last year I can see why they would want to go.

They are well down the pecking order, and probably rightfully so. Neither have taken their chances when given the opportunity. We've got better players in their position now. Get some money in for them while we can, value will drop at the end of the season.

Thankful for what they did last year, but we've moved on.

If you think not playing Benson is one of the reasons we've been poor this year then see if Sasha can link you with Specsavers.

I'd be more disappointed with Zaroury, than Benson tbh. More potential.

[123EasyasBFC]

Zaroury much higher ceiling than benson wouldn’t entertain any bid for zaroury but Sacha said it so he’s gone

[Goody1975]

Linked with Brian Gil of Spurs according to Turf Cast.

Talented player but he'd take our lightweight options to a whole new level.

[boatshed bill]

' the improving Vitinho'

Where have you read that?

Well i do believe that he's improving. i haven't read it anywhere, it's just my opinion.
you may well say he's not PL standard, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree.
Maybe I just don't expect "champagne players on beer money".... where have you read that?

[GetIntoEm]

Talented player but he'd take our lightweight options to a whole new level.

Perfect signing if you want players built like a 12 year old girl. Not what we need is it

[jedi_master]

FAO Claretspice (didn’t want to quote your wall of text…which was quoting my own wall of text ).

You make valid points/counters to my own on the subject of Benson. I think I will respectfully disagree with the general crux of the ‘didn’t start in clutch games’ point as I feel this was absolutely the strategy we generally chose (i.e, to deploy Benson in the last 20) as opposed to anything more sinister or a point against his merits. He is just a phenomenal sub, the likes of which I’ve personally never seen at Burnley in 30+ years of going on. I fail to see why he could not have been afforded the same ‘super-sub’ moniker this season for us, but unfortunately we’ve been out of games too quickly (or holding on to a lead/point) to mean it was ever really relevant.

I also highly doubt we will manage to hold on to his (and Zaroury’s!!!?) replacements if we go down. Odobert and Amdouni will be gone quick time, Koleosho also if he proves his fitness. Bruun-Larsen is only on loan and I hope we don’t purchase him. Tresor should excel in that league, surely. This is all conjecture though so we will have to wait and see. I note that agreenwood has just said we’re after Bryan Gil, so clearly a replacement would be incoming.

There is also the childish element to this - I loved Manuel Benson. I’m 37 so to mention ‘favourite players’ feels slightly juvenile, but Benson got me off my feet every week last season. He was an absolute joy to watch and I only thought he’d be leaving to a club above us. To see him leave with such question marks over what/why/how feels really disappointing. Hes left us some bloody brilliant memories though.

(Note: As always with you, a respectful conversation as opposed to a needless argument - that is appreciated. Never an issue with disagreement but it so often leads to pettiness on this forum).

[claretspice]

I disagree, he started a game against Villa and struggled, he was hooked at half time and spent the next two games on the bench.

We cannot start with Foster, Amdouni, Odobert/Koleosho & Benson and not expect to get overrun with our midfield two and Vitinho at right back, it's just common sense.

If Amdouni plays then it's a straight choice between Odobert and Benson for the wide role, they can't both play.

Play a more pragmatic number 10 and maybe we can have two attacking wide players, we can't have our cake and eat it. Literally we'll be the one getting eaten alive at this level.

The first bit I agree with. I just don't agree that but for the fact we've got the likes of Amdouni, we would be starting Benson. We weren't starting with him in the Championship, particularly not against the upwardly mobile sides. He wasn't robust enough at that level let alone this. That's not just a comment on his defensive abilities, it's also a comment on his attacking play against a side looking to press/put him under physical pressure. I don't think he's quite of Premier League level and I think Kompany concluded that last season.

[Goody1975]

The first bit I agree with. I just don't agree that but for the fact we've got the likes of Amdouni, we would be starting Benson. We weren't starting with him in the Championship, particularly not against the upwardly mobile sides. He wasn't robust enough at that level let alone this. That's not just a comment on his defensive abilities, it's also a comment on his attacking play against a side looking to press/put him under physical pressure. I don't think he's quite of Premier League level and I think Kompany concluded that last season.

I'm not saying he would, I personally think he was very good as an impact sub but less so as a starter, but even that isn't proved at this level.

My point is, we may have a thought of playing him in a 4-3-3 with a solid three in the centre and a strong full back behind him but it's an absolute non starter with the options we have.

Our issue with Amdouni is he's a second striker as opposed to an attacking midfielder, this leaves us vulnerable in more ways than one. It's not all on him, he takes a lot of unwanted stick but this team is young and needs structure and protection to help them flourish.

[Goliath]

The first bit I agree with. I just don't agree that but for the fact we've got the likes of Amdouni, we would be starting Benson. We weren't starting with him in the Championship, particularly not against the upwardly mobile sides. He wasn't robust enough at that level let alone this. That's not just a comment on his defensive abilities, it's also a comment on his attacking play against a side looking to press/put him under physical pressure. I don't think he's quite of Premier League level and I think Kompany concluded that last season.

We started him against Sheff utd away where he put in his best beformance of the season along with the game away at Bournemouth which doesnt really fit your theory.

I think the points above yours about not being able to fit him in with the other attacking players, especially with a defensively woeful right back is about right. His lack of use of the bench however does seem to indicate a bit of an issue behind the scenes in training.

[claretspice]

FAO Claretspice (didn’t want to quote your wall of text…which was quoting my own wall of text ).

You make valid points/counters to my own on the subject of Benson. I think I will respectfully disagree with the general crux of the ‘didn’t start in clutch games’ point as I feel this was absolutely the strategy we generally chose (i.e, to deploy Benson in the last 20) as opposed to anything more sinister or a point against his merits. He is just a phenomenal sub, the likes of which I’ve personally never seen at Burnley in 30+ years of going on. I fail to see why he could not have been afforded the same ‘super-sub’ moniker this season for us, but unfortunately we’ve been out of games too quickly (or holding on to a lead/point) to mean it was ever really relevant.

I also highly doubt we will manage to hold on to his (and Zaroury’s!!!?) replacements if we go down. Odobert and Amdouni will be gone quick time, Koleosho also if he proves his fitness. Bruun-Larsen is only on loan and I hope we don’t purchase him. Tresor should excel in that league, surely. This is all conjecture though so we will have to wait and see. I note that agreenwood has just said we’re after Bryan Gil, so clearly a replacement would be incoming.

There is also the childish element to this - I loved Manuel Benson. I’m 37 so to mention ‘favourite players’ feels slightly juvenile, but Benson got me off my feet every week last season. He was an absolute joy to watch and I only thought he’d be leaving to a club above us. To see him leave with such question marks over what/why/how feels really disappointing. Hes left us some bloody brilliant memories though.

(Note: As always with you, a respectful conversation as opposed to a needless argument - that is appreciated. Never an issue with disagreement but it so often leads to pettiness on this forum).

It will be interesting to see what happens in the summer assuming we go down. I am sure we will sell players, but personally I don't think it's a given that all of those who joined last summer will leave and I don't think any of us really know what the plan is in that regard. It's quite likely that Odobert, for example has done enough to earn a move at a decent profit, but it might very well be that we look at the likes of Amdouni and compare with what Bournemouth did - they retained Solanke and Danjuma, and then saw their values increase dramatically as a result of them having success at the lower level.

[claretspice]

We started him against Sheff utd away where he put in his best beformance of the season along with the game away at Bournemouth which doesnt really fit your theory.

I think the points above yours about not being able to fit him in with the other attacking players, especially with a defensively woeful right back is about right. His lack of use of the bench however does seem to indicate a bit of an issue behind the scenes in training.

I dealt with ther Sheffield United game, though. First game after the world cup, JBG was preferred on the right wing away at a physical opponent. I thought that was significant.

[warksclaret]

I have yet to read in 39 Pages of January Transfer Rumours , any praise for VK and the recruitment team for having picked up these two gems, for relative peanuts. They went on to play major roles in our promotion, two years ahead of schedule. Unlike any of our readers, VK and the coaching team see these guys daily, and every consideration will have ben made on whether we retain or sell. All will become clear in the next 3-4 days, but I suspect its time to move on

[NewClaret]

I am absolutely staggered that no full backs look close

We’re definitely in for a left back,

[SGr]

Zaroury’s stock is only going to go down. The fact it’s so high after roughly a year of average performance is impressive.

Koleosho has more 1v1, Odobert has more production. He’s third choice going on 4th if we’re persisting with Tresor which at the price he cost, we kinda have to.

Cash in.

[jojomk1]

Zaroury’s stock is only going to go down. The fact it’s so high after roughly a year of average performance is impressive.

Koleosho has more 1v1, Odobert has more production. He’s third choice going on 4th if we’re persisting with Tresor which at the price he cost, we kinda have to.

Cash in.

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

[Goliath]

I dealt with ther Sheffield United game, though. First game after the world cup, JBG was preferred on the right wing away at a physical opponent. I thought that was significant.

That was the case as soon as he signed, to be at his best he seems to have to be used in bursts just as he was last season, that doesn't necessarily mean off the bench. Surely we were aware of this when we signed him, Kompany will have seen him countless times.
I understand fully that he doesn't help the balance in the side but not to use him at all seems very extreme and again indicates to me some sort of issue behind the scenes.

Strangely, rather than it being down to us having so many wingers, i actually think its the constant inclusion of Amdouni which has hindered him. Like somebody said we just cant have Amdouni, benson and Odobert in the same team. An extra midfielder would free up Benson to stay higher on that side.

[gandhisflipflop]

We’re definitely in for a left back,

How do you know?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Seen a lot on social media about how crazy it is that Zaroury is interesting Sevilla when he cannot get in our team, but it is worth noting that Sevilla have won as few games as we have, they have a lower value squad, and have massive financial problems. Lukebakio is one of their highest value players who turned us down to go to them, and he has hardly pulled up trees, only 2 goals and 1 assist then has had a ligament injury.

There will be a lot of first XI vs second XI in training, and maybe Zaroury and Benson simply don’t look good enough against our first choice defence? Controversial I know, legends both for last season, but maybe the easiest answer.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Zaroury much higher ceiling than benson wouldn’t entertain any bid for zaroury but Sacha said it so he’s gone

Yaaaaaaaaaawnnnnnn

[TPClaret]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

Extended and improved contracts. Great move. Means we can get more for them. How often have we let contracts run down and get next to nothing for players or lose them on frees.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

There are other things you can write in new contracts in our favor as well you know. Release clauses, for one

[Pickles]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

The fact they have long contracts is a good thing, it maximises value. Never understood that criticism. And besides, the contract extensions may have been automatic upon promotion.

[NewClaret]

How do you know?

Heard we are on the old grapevine

Very confident we’re in for one - whether it’ll come off or not I have no idea.

[alwaysaclaret]

Heard it all now - 'Benson is bang average' and Zaroury fancied by Sevilla, whilst we're dropping to the Champ after barely giving them two a kick.

Well done VK & co for turning one of the most fun, unified and enjoyable teams we've seen into the shittest, gutless and unenjoyable to watch

Can't agree with this more, oh but hang on, we've got tresor and larsen, their world beater's, not !

[123EasyasBFC]

Yaaaaaaaaaawnnnnnn

Yet you keep replying, don’t let it get to you

[CoolClaret]

The first bit I agree with. I just don't agree that but for the fact we've got the likes of Amdouni, we would be starting Benson. We weren't starting with him in the Championship, particularly not against the upwardly mobile sides. He wasn't robust enough at that level let alone this. That's not just a comment on his defensive abilities, it's also a comment on his attacking play against a side looking to press/put him under physical pressure. I don't think he's quite of Premier League level and I think Kompany concluded that last season.

The only reason he didn't start regularly in the Champ is because Tella was starting in the same position, who then ended up signing for the team flying at the top of the Bundesliga.

No one is saying he should be a nailed on starter every week, more that he offers something different and can definitely impact games to a greater degree than others that have been given more time off the bench this season can.

[FeedTheArf]

If VK isn’t going to give Zaroury minutes then it makes sense to get him out on loan. I don’t agree with it, but he’s a depreciating asset as things stand.

I’d be interested to know what the optional fee is!

[NewClaret]

If VK isn’t going to give Zaroury minutes then it makes sense to get him out on loan. I don’t agree with it, but he’s a depreciating asset as things stand.

I’d be interested to know what the optional fee is!

I can understand a loan for Zaroury. We have endless left wingers. Not Benson though. The right side is our much weaker side.

[BigGaz]

I am generally positive of our new strategy and am very much in VK's corner but if you are truly telling me that Sevilla, with a European pedigree and a transfer policy we couldn't even realistically dream of aspiring towards, who are usually found competing at the business end end of La Liga and at the thick end of European tournaments (although appreciate not currently) think that Zaroury is a good option to slot into their team, and we don't, then something is seriously going belly up here.

The price is going to be the success factor. If he's going for north of 15m then I say fair play - that's the model working.

If it's going to be what I think we are all hoping it's not going to be, a handful of coins with lint and a toffee crisp, then I think the most fervent moneyball supporter is entitled to ask WTF

[SGr]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

I can’t pretend to understand the sort of decisions that have been made this year.

Benson btw isn’t comparable to Zaroury. One of them has always turned up and not been given a chance. The other is the complete opposite.

[Goody1975]

I am generally positive of our new strategy and am very much in VK's corner but if you are truly telling me that Sevilla, with a European pedigree and a transfer policy we couldn't even realistically dream of aspiring towards, who are usually found competing at the business end end of La Liga and at the thick end of European tournaments (although appreciate not currently) think that Zaroury is a good option to slot into their team, and we don't, then something is seriously going belly up here.

The price is going to be the success factor. If he's going for north of 15m then I say fair play - that's the model working.

If it's going to be what I think we are all hoping it's not going to be, a handful of coins with lint and a toffee crisp, then I think the most fervent moneyball supporter is entitled to ask WTF

I am under the impression that Sevilla are in serious financial difficulties and are currently shopping in different areas to normal. They are at risk of being relegated from La Liga.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Yet you keep replying, don’t let it get to you

I find it hilarious that you are so obsessed!
It’s like a borderline psychosis.

Not a good look but if that’s the picture you want to paint of yourself keep at it and I’ll keep highlighting it

[Newcastleclaret93]

The only reason he didn't start regularly in the Champ is because Tella was starting in the same position, who then ended up signing for the team flying at the top of the Bundesliga.

No one is saying he should be a nailed on starter every week, more that he offers something different and can definitely impact games to a greater degree than others that have been given more time off the bench this season can.

Do you know what makes me laugh the most in all of this, the same people that are saying benson is bang average and Zaroury can’t cut it at this level, are the same ones saying VK should be given a chance at this level haha. Irony is dead on some people.

If we should be getting rid of them two because they can’t cut it at this level then VK should be walking as well. Because no player has performed as badly as him this season

[bumba]

Do you know what makes me laugh the most in all of this, the same people that are saying benson is bang average and Zaroury can’t cut it at this level, are the same ones saying VK should be given a chance at this level haha. Irony is dead on some people.

If we should be getting rid of them two because they can’t cut it at this level then VK should be walking as well. Because no player has performed as badly as him this season

Same with Trafford, give him all the time in the world but two great players from last season's squad getting written off after minimum minutes!

[Burnley Ace]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

To get more money for them, otherwise we would be looking players who, coming into the summer, would only have 1 year left?

[StayingDown4Ever]

Same with Trafford, give him all the time in the world but two great players from last season's squad getting written off after minimum minutes!

But.. but Trafford and Vincent are learning at this level!

[123EasyasBFC]

I find it hilarious that you are so obsessed!
It’s like a borderline psychosis.

Not a good look but if that’s the picture you want to paint of yourself keep at it and I’ll keep highlighting it

You are borderline obsessed with replying to me, don’t let it bother you so much

[claretonthecoast1882]

Thankfully the window closes very soon and we can be spared this hysterical nonsense until the summer

[spt_claret]

Really don't want to see Zaroury out the door as well. Would far rather ship Tresor on than either of them. But can understand why Zaroury especially might want to go given he's no longer in the Morocco squad, missed out on the ANC.

Benson is bang average.

He is a luxury player. We don’t have a place for a player like him at the moment. He, like Roberts ruin the intended system of play.

Both aren’t in the team.

Kompany sees them both most days and doesn’t put them
In the team.

I’m firmly in the ‘Kompany out camp’, but I trust him 100% with player selection.

Again- if he's 'bang average' (which is practically becoming a catchphrase about him and entering 'pony' and 'give your head a wobble' territory for me) what the hell have half our new wingers been in terms of match contribution?
If Benson & Roberts ruin our intended system, then what exactly do you call what's happened this season with how one's been dropped and one barely featured? We're not exactly working as a system without them either.
I find that last note hard to wrap my head around honestly- why would you trust a manager 100% if you want him out? How is it the players that ruin the system if you think the manager should go? I'm Kompany In but I don't think he's flawless on selection. Same as how I backed Dyche but never thought he was perfect.

*claretspice's post*

Trimming as it's a long post (but makes a lot of very good points) however I would argue that firstly, he still represents a different option to our existing wingers, so as a gamechanger substitute is worth using especially in games where we need a goal. It was his specialty last season. Second, related to that, I'd argue that his transitioning to a sub role towards the end was a tactical selection reflective of the team more than him- Barnes did a lot more dropping deep but would still rough up/hassle defenders, Tella exhausted them with his pace, when the defences are tiring on comes Benson and he can be even more impactful because in addition to his own offerings the opposition are tired. He was effective against teams beyond 11-behind-the-ball defensive sides.

I'm not calling for him to be starting XI every week -I'm saying that in games we're chasing by a goal/level but could do with a win, bringing him on at the 55-60 minute mark like last season seems worth trying on at least a good half dozen occasions before deciding he can't hack it suddenly. That's the maddening part- this season has been going very badly, things aren't working especially Kompany's subs, and here we have a guy who was one of the most effective impact subs I've ever seen for Burnley, not getting a chance to do it again except 10 minutes against a Dyche Everton already at 2-0 and quite happy to Dyche out the game- probably the trickiest scenario for it. That's what I can't get- he's simply not been given the chance to do it relistically, nor has Zaroury, when what we're doing isn't working. But other players who have also offered nothing when deployed, still keep getting a lot more opportunities to come good, Tresor most glaringly. We're a team that needs something different to start happening for us, he's different, he's not even tried. Might fail might not work, honestly with how bad we've been I'd be surprised if he transformed us noticeably, but at least we'd have actually given it a try. It's the same thing as Muric in terms of how there's certain players suddenly locked out of the team even amidst endless chop-changing elsewhere in the side.

[123EasyasBFC]

And yet our manager decided to give both Benson and Zaroury extended and improved contracts this year

Totally baffling

Players got new contracts to fall in line with the rest of the squad. It’s simple to understand really, benson Cullen foster Vitinho and zaroury all come from the same league and all get improved contracts this season, clearly clauses in their contracts last season. The way the media team announces them makes it look like it’s a massive extension when in reality it’s 12 month extensions but on better terms

[123EasyasBFC]

Really don't want to see Zaroury out the door as well. Would far rather ship Tresor on than either of them. But can understand why Zaroury especially might want to go given he's no longer in the Morocco squad, missed out on the ANC.


Again- if he's 'bang average' (which is practically becoming a catchphrase about him and entering 'pony' and 'give your head a wobble' territory for me) what the hell have half our new wingers been in terms of match contribution?
If Benson & Roberts ruin our intended system, then what exactly do you call what's happened this season with how one's been dropped and one barely featured? We're not exactly working as a system without them either.
I find that last note hard to wrap my head around honestly- why would you trust a manager 100% if you want him out? How is it the players that ruin the system if you think the manager should go? I'm Kompany In but I don't think he's flawless on selection. Same as how I backed Dyche but never thought he was perfect.


Trimming as it's a long post (but makes a lot of very good points) however I would argue that firstly, he still represents a different option to our existing wingers, so as a gamechanger substitute is worth using especially in games where we need a goal. It was his specialty last season. Second, related to that, I'd argue that his transitioning to a sub role towards the end was a tactical selection reflective of the team more than him- Barnes did a lot more dropping deep but would still rough up/hassle defenders, Tella exhausted them with his pace, when the defences are tiring on comes Benson and he can be even more impactful because in addition to his own offerings the opposition are tired. He was effective against teams beyond 11-behind-the-ball defensive sides.

I'm not calling for him to be starting XI every week -I'm saying that in games we're chasing by a goal/level but could do with a win, bringing him on at the 55-60 minute mark like last season seems worth trying on at least a good half dozen occasions before deciding he can't hack it suddenly. That's the maddening part- this season has been going very badly, things aren't working especially Kompany's subs, and here we have a guy who was one of the most effective impact subs I've ever seen for Burnley, not getting a chance to do it again except 10 minutes against a Dyche Everton already at 2-0 and quite happy to Dyche out the game- probably the trickiest scenario for it. That's what I can't get- he's simply not been given the chance to do it relistically, nor has Zaroury, when what we're doing isn't working. But other players who have also offered nothing when deployed, still keep getting a lot more opportunities to come good, Tresor most glaringly. We're a team that needs something different to start happening for us, he's different, he's not even tried. Might fail might not work, honestly with how bad we've been I'd be surprised if he transformed us noticeably, but at least we'd have actually given it a try. It's the same thing as Muric in terms of how there's certain players suddenly locked out of the team even amidst endless chop-changing elsewhere in the side.

The only way Tresor could move would be back to genk, played us both genk and Burnley this season so couldn’t play for another club

[agreenwood]

Just stop lads. You’re going around in circles.

[Westleigh]

Really don't want to see Zaroury out the door as well. Would far rather ship Tresor on than either of them. But can understand why Zaroury especially might want to go given he's no longer in the Morocco squad, missed out on the ANC.


Again- if he's 'bang average' (which is practically becoming a catchphrase about him and entering 'pony' and 'give your head a wobble' territory for me) what the hell have half our new wingers been in terms of match contribution?
If Benson & Roberts ruin our intended system, then what exactly do you call what's happened this season with how one's been dropped and one barely featured? We're not exactly working as a system without them either.
I find that last note hard to wrap my head around honestly- why would you trust a manager 100% if you want him out? How is it the players that ruin the system if you think the manager should go? I'm Kompany In but I don't think he's flawless on selection. Same as how I backed Dyche but never thought he was perfect.


Trimming as it's a long post (but makes a lot of very good points) however I would argue that firstly, he still represents a different option to our existing wingers, so as a gamechanger substitute is worth using especially in games where we need a goal. It was his specialty last season. Second, related to that, I'd argue that his transitioning to a sub role towards the end was a tactical selection reflective of the team more than him- Barnes did a lot more dropping deep but would still rough up/hassle defenders, Tella exhausted them with his pace, when the defences are tiring on comes Benson and he can be even more impactful because in addition to his own offerings the opposition are tired. He was effective against teams beyond 11-behind-the-ball defensive sides.

I'm not calling for him to be starting XI every week -I'm saying that in games we're chasing by a goal/level but could do with a win, bringing him on at the 55-60 minute mark like last season seems worth trying on at least a good half dozen occasions before deciding he can't hack it suddenly. That's the maddening part- this season has been going very badly, things aren't working especially Kompany's subs, and here we have a guy who was one of the most effective impact subs I've ever seen for Burnley, not getting a chance to do it again except 10 minutes against a Dyche Everton already at 2-0 and quite happy to Dyche out the game- probably the trickiest scenario for it. That's what I can't get- he's simply not been given the chance to do it relistically, nor has Zaroury, when what we're doing isn't working. But other players who have also offered nothing when deployed, still keep getting a lot more opportunities to come good, Tresor most glaringly. We're a team that needs something different to start happening for us, he's different, he's not even tried. Might fail might not work, honestly with how bad we've been I'd be surprised if he transformed us noticeably, but at least we'd have actually given it a try. It's the same thing as Muric in terms of how there's certain players suddenly locked out of the team even amidst endless chop-changing elsewhere in the side.

The manager seems to decide a player isn’t going to get a game whatever happens,he’s either very stubborn,or one not to be crossed ,it reminds me of a video before he came to Burnley and was really slagging his players off in a real nasty way saying he was in charge and implying that he wasn’t interested in who some of the players might think should play ,and I know managers have to be strong,but when your in a position like we are I think he needs to be more flexible in his thinking ,and be willing to give all the players a fair crack of the whip.

[Cooclaret]

Really don't want to see Zaroury out the door as well. Would far rather ship Tresor on than either of them. But can understand why Zaroury especially might want to go given he's no longer in the Morocco squad, missed out on the ANC.


Again- if he's 'bang average' (which is practically becoming a catchphrase about him and entering 'pony' and 'give your head a wobble' territory for me) what the hell have half our new wingers been in terms of match contribution?
If Benson & Roberts ruin our intended system, then what exactly do you call what's happened this season with how one's been dropped and one barely featured? We're not exactly working as a system without them either.
I find that last note hard to wrap my head around honestly- why would you trust a manager 100% if you want him out? How is it the players that ruin the system if you think the manager should go? I'm Kompany In but I don't think he's flawless on selection. Same as how I backed Dyche but never thought he was perfect.

I don’t have an issue with Kompanys team selection. I don’t see them everyday, he does. He has access to information about players that we will never have; mental health, physical health and so on. So he has that right to pick who he picks without my criticism.

I don’t agree with his tactical outlook, I don’t like his in game management. He is very much a manager learning ‘on the job’ for me. Whilst that is okay in some settings, it is not what BFC need and what I want to see as a fan. I feel we’re suffering so he can learn. He isn’t learning very fast either!

Roberts wasn’t good enough last season to play the position being asked of him. He isn’t good enough this season when the challenge is doubled. I think I called him a poor mans Matt Cash last season, I stand by that. Cash has now been dropped when a more tactically astute manager has arrived at Villa. Both are brilliant athletes, internationals, but both have limitations when asked to play in a progressive system that brings fullbacks into midfield situations.

Give them both a sideline and the opportunity to bomb on and they’re great players to be in a squad. RB is one area I thought we’d look to improve on in this transfer window.

Benson; isn’t good enough, doesn’t work back, exposes the right side of the system. Does smack the odd spectacular goal. There’s not a LB/LCB in the Premier League that wouldn’t mark him out of the game.

Trimming as it's a long post (but makes a lot of very good points) however I would argue that firstly, he still represents a different option to our existing wingers, so as a gamechanger substitute is worth using especially in games where we need a goal. It was his specialty last season. Second, related to that, I'd argue that his transitioning to a sub role towards the end was a tactical selection reflective of the team more than him- Barnes did a lot more dropping deep but would still rough up/hassle defenders, Tella exhausted them with his pace, when the defences are tiring on comes Benson and he can be even more impactful because in addition to his own offerings the opposition are tired. He was effective against teams beyond 11-behind-the-ball defensive sides.

I'm not calling for him to be starting XI every week -I'm saying that in games we're chasing by a goal/level but could do with a win, bringing him on at the 55-60 minute mark like last season seems worth trying on at least a good half dozen occasions before deciding he can't hack it suddenly. That's the maddening part- this season has been going very badly, things aren't working especially Kompany's subs, and here we have a guy who was one of the most effective impact subs I've ever seen for Burnley, not getting a chance to do it again except 10 minutes against a Dyche Everton already at 2-0 and quite happy to Dyche out the game- probably the trickiest scenario for it. That's what I can't get- he's simply not been given the chance to do it relistically, nor has Zaroury, when what we're doing isn't working. But other players who have also offered nothing when deployed, still keep getting a lot more opportunities to come good, Tresor most glaringly. We're a team that needs something different to start happening for us, he's different, he's not even tried. Might fail might not work, honestly with how bad we've been I'd be surprised if he transformed us noticeably, but at least we'd have actually given it a try. It's the same thing as Muric in terms of how there's certain players suddenly locked out of the team even amidst endless chop-changing elsewhere in the side.

[KRBFC]

VK basically said a few weeks ago that he sees Zaroury’s long term future here. A loan deal for six month would be fine but I don’t see him leaving on a permanent unless Anass doesn’t want to be here for the long haul. I’d be disappointed to see him go permanently, I think he’s got a lot of development to do but I believe in him.

[vinrogue]

Muric, I remember his celebrations on achieving his ambition and promotion to the PL, I wish him nothing but success and that this transfer window is kind to him.

[spt_claret]

I don’t have an issue with Kompanys team selection. I don’t see them everyday, he does. He has access to information about players that we will never have; mental health, physical health and so on. So he has that right to pick who he picks without my criticism.

I don’t agree with his tactical outlook, I don’t like his in game management. He is very much a manager learning ‘on the job’ for me. Whilst that is okay in some settings, it is not what BFC need and what I want to see as a fan. I feel we’re suffering so he can learn. He isn’t learning very fast either!

Roberts wasn’t good enough last season to play the position being asked of him. He isn’t good enough this season when the challenge is doubled. I think I called him a poor mans Matt Cash last season, I stand by that. Cash has now been dropped when a more tactically astute manager has arrived at Villa. Both are brilliant athletes, internationals, but both have limitations when asked to play in a progressive system that brings fullbacks into midfield situations.

Give them both a sideline and the opportunity to bomb on and they’re great players to be in a squad. RB is one area I thought we’d look to improve on in this transfer window.

Benson; isn’t good enough, doesn’t work back, exposes the right side of the system. Does smack the odd spectacular goal. There’s not a LB/LCB in the Premier League that wouldn’t mark him out of the game.

But this makes no sense. If you don't like Kompany's tactics or game management, how can you be agreeing with the player selection and saying these players are no good for a system that you don't like? If you want the manager gone and his tactics changed why do you want players gone if they don't fit the tactics (that you think are poor tactics)? I genuinely can't follow the reasoning.

I still fail to see how you can possibly assess a player as not good enough when he's had the sum total of 80 minutes, 10 of which was against a Dyche team in full "sit back and grind the clock down" mode, 16 were against Man City already at 3-0 down, and the only start/45m he's got was Villa where we played a staggeringly physically vulnerable team all round- Delcroix, Cullen, Al Dakhil, Koleosho, much as I think he's decent Amdouni. He's had so little to judge him as not good enough on, especially next to other underperformers, and again the argument isn't "he should be starting" it's "he should be given a reasonable number of chances to do what he did regularly last year before being written off". We get people telling us not to write new arrivals off on the basis of a LOT more failed appearances than he's had, and he showed last year what he can do for US, which matters more than what a player did elsewhere.

As for "there's not an LB/LCB that wouldn't mark him out" he gave Man United problems in the Cup last season with a theoretically weaker Burnley side and scored twice against Bournemouth so that's already been proven false.