Sorry if it’s mentioned elsewhere, but only recently saw the Sheffield United penalty. The United player obviously dives in to get the penalty, anybody who has played the game, like the ex players commenting, says it’s not a penalty. But that idiot Jones falls for it, the quicker he is demoted down the leagues the better.

Also I didn’t realise until VKs rant after the Bournemouth game that we got an apology for the disallowed goal at Forest.

The quicker he is demoted down the leagues the better it will be for everyone not just us. I doubt he will ever ref at the Turf because it would just be 90 minutes of justified abuse.

northeastclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:09 am

Sorry if it’s mentioned elsewhere, but only recently saw the Sheffield United penalty. The United player obviously dives in to get the penalty, anybody who has played the game, like the ex players commenting, says it’s not a penalty. But that idiot Jones falls for it, the quicker he is demoted down the leagues the better.

Also I didn’t realise until VKs rant after the Bournemouth game that we got an apology for the disallowed goal at Forest.

The quicker he is demoted down the leagues the better it will be for everyone not just us. I doubt he will ever ref at the Turf because it would just be 90 minutes of justified abuse.

Jones gave the goal at Forest though but was persuaded by England to change his decision.

You are right but ultimately it was his decision and at the end of the match he made a sweeping action with his arm to indicate to Bellamy how Berger had handled the ball, which is not what Berger did as proved by the tv reply that Jones viewed from the monitor.

northeastclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:16 am

You are right but ultimately it was his decision and at the end of the match he made a sweeping action with his arm to indicate to Bellamy how Berger had handled the ball, which is not what Berger did as proved by the tv reply that Jones viewed from the monitor.

I’m not convinced we did get an apology. Kompany was speaking after Bournemouth and referred to Forest during it. He said: “We get apologies,” but made no reference to receiving one from any specific incident or game.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:11 am

Jones gave the goal at Forest though but was persuaded by England to change his decision.

England again, oh dear. I must admit I can’t do with Jones, he looks such an arrogant - - - tard.

Instead of " punishing " these officials by forcing their incompetence and arrogance on Football League clubs ( as if they dont matter ) how about suspending them from officiating at all for a period of time ?

Jarrow Bowen's goal at the weekend was very similar but clearly far more of a handball than Berge's was at Forest. And he scored so it didn't even need to be deliberate. Still given though.

It’s another atrocious penalty decision from first the referee and then VAR.

I was ready for slagging off Jones when I heard the fuss about the pen decision but having watched it I’d have give it. Fabio catches his right ankle, a terrible challenge on a man facing away from the goal.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:39 pm

I was ready for slagging off Jones when I heard the fuss about the pen decision but having watched it I’d have give it. Fabio catches his right ankle, a terrible challenge on a man facing away from the goal.

We can all see it differently, but to me the United player is already falling as he gets his body in front of the Wolves player and is more about diving than controlling and getting close to the ball.

Every player is intent on conning the officials from the moment they set foot on the pitch.
Is it any wonder that they manage to manufacture decisions which go in their favour? Whether they succeed or fail it is always the officials who get the blame one way ot the other.

I have a good friend who is a referee and was put up for promotion recently, however, he turned it down because the last thing that he wants is to be refereeing in the PL with the farce that is VAR. He is an excellent referee who loves the game, however, he has been against VAR since its introduction because it does not benefit the game at all.

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:56 pm

Every player is intent on conning the officials from the moment they set foot on the pitch.
Is it any wonder that they manage to manufacture decisions which go in their favour? Whether they succeed or fail it is always the officials who get the blame one way ot the other.

I have a good friend who is a referee and was put up for promotion recently, however, he turned it down because the last thing that he wants is to be refereeing in the PL with the farce that is VAR. He is an excellent referee who loves the game, however, he has been against VAR since its introduction because it does not benefit the game at all.

Good point about the players trying to con the refs all the time , but the refs get the blame for the decisions.

I think this is another reason where our inexperience works against us. Our players have an honest innocence which doesn’t get decisions in our favour and is taken advantage of by teams like Newcastle.

Another example is if Trafford had made a real meal
of that bad challenge and rolled over a couple of times , thumped the ground with is arm and suggested initially he couldn’t carry on , I am sure it would have been a red card, which it should have been and probably led to a different result in the end

A lot of the problem with referees is that they aren't the boss any more. They don't have enough arrogance, in a sense, because the idea that the ref is in charge and the players have to do what he says, has gone.

For one thing, when VAR speaks the ref has to listen and (i all but the rarest cases) has to change his mind. When they're sent to the screen, they don't look at the incident again in normal time and come to an independent view, they are shown exactly what the VAR man wants them to see, and they don't insist on seeing a fair picture.

For another, the PGMOL are looking over every ref's shoulder. Each ref makes about 250 decisions per game, so they say, and every single one of them is marked to see whether it was right or wrong. In effect he has to referee not according to what he sees, but what he thinks the committee would like him to do. Basically he is not the boss, the refereeing is now done by a committee and it isn't working.

And to compound the problem, the PGMOL is very much of the view that a foul depends on the player's reaction. So many times we see an obvious dive given as a free kick becuse "there was contact", where if the man hadn't dived it would have been given. A free kick or a penalty should be dependent on what the possible fouler does, not what his possible victim does. If player A does nothing wrong, then player B can't make it wrong by rolling about screaming.

IMO they need to step back 10 or even 20 years and reset. Put the laws of the game back to what they were. Abolish the PGMOL. Abolish VAR. Abolish the current lawmaking committee and replace it with a strict remit that they should only change the law when it is necessary. How many of the law changes of the last 20 years have improved the game? Is the handball law any clearer? Is the offside law any clearer? IMO they should scrap VAR now and make the other changes at the end of the season, and let the referees be independent of all the baggage. After a year or two, they can set up new committees IF they are needed.

One more thing - the linesmen and VAR officials should stop wittering in the ref's ear all the time. Let him concentrate.

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:35 am

Instead of " punishing " these officials by forcing their incompetence and arrogance on Football League clubs ( as if they dont matter ) how about suspending them from officiating at all for a period of time ?

That's my fear for next season when VAR hits the Championship. The standard of refereeing is noticeably worse than the Prem and logic says the standard of VAR officiating will be worse, if indeed that's even possible.
The PGMOL really needs to get a grip or VAR will be a dominant factor in a lot of games.

Woonderbah wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:04 pm

That's my fear for next season when VAR hits the Championship. The standard of refereeing is noticeably worse than the Prem and logic says the standard of VAR officiating will be worse, if indeed that's even possible.
The PGMOL really needs to get a grip or VAR will be a dominant factor in a lot of games.

Be prepared for the worst scenarios because it is not going to get any better.
FIFA continue in their quest for the perfect game of football at the expense of everyone who loves the game.

Where I start to lose patience with the referees and dealing with the cheats. Is the 12 decisions a game , when a player deliberately backs into or stops to allow contact and then falls over and the ref gives a free kick.

We can all see in most instances what’s happening, but the refs nearly always cop out and give the safe option of a free kick, completely spineless the refs are.

I know it’s the players that are the cheats but they just can’t be ar@ed to give the correct decision.

northeastclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:36 pm

Where I start to lose patience with the referees and dealing with the cheats. Is the 12 decisions a game , when a player deliberately backs into or stops to allow contact and then falls over and the ref gives a free kick.

We can all see in most instances what’s happening, but the refs nearly always cop out and give the safe option of a free kick, completely spineless the refs are.

I know it’s the players that are the cheats but they just can’t be ar@ed to give the correct decision.

Very true, however, you have to realise that those running the game are wanting to ensure that any physical contact is punished one way or another and this leads to these situations when a free kick is given.
Go and watch Academy games and note the number of free kicks given by up and coming referees for physical contact which is very minimal. It is something which, as someone who has played and officiated at semi-professional level, is a very sad thing to see.

The issue with Jones is that he's not learning, the penalty incident is along the same as the one he gave us at Leeds, where he instantaneously blows his whistle without giving himself time to think and thus pretty much negating VAR with his premature action

I hope he isn't that premature when he's giving his other half one

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:20 am

I’m not convinced we did get an apology. Kompany was speaking after Bournemouth and referred to Forest during it. He said: “We get apologies,” but made no reference to receiving one from any specific incident or game.

It was reported in the Athletic this morning that we received a post-game apology from PGMOL for the decision and that they admitted it was wrong.

*gave against us v Leeds

"And to compound the problem, the PGMOL is very much of the view that a foul depends on the player's reaction. So many times we see an obvious dive given as a free kick becuse "there was contact", where if the man hadn't dived it would have been given. A free kick or a penalty should be dependent on what the possible fouler does, not what his possible victim does. If player A does nothing wrong, then player B can't make it wrong by rolling about screaming."

And that in part was what I meant about Jones giving himself thinking time because it appears even the Sheff Utd player didn't think it was a foul as he immediately bounces back up and tries to chase the ball down without even claiming for the pen, by which time Jones has already blown for the pen

Why doesn’t VAR crack down on those players who collapse to the ground holding their face when no facial contact has been made?.

It’s cheating and they should be carded for it.

ClaretOfMancunia wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:11 pm

It was reported in the Athletic this morning that we received a post-game apology from PGMOL for the decision and that they admitted it was wrong.

I’m not sure they haven’t misunderstood Vincent Kompany.

Objective decisions like the majority of offsides are should be determined by a suitably developed algorithm rather than be dependent upon the ludicrous subjective and wildly inconsistent drawing of lines by humans. I favour the striker is onside unless there is clear daylight between the most rear part of his body and the most forward part of the defender’s body. Code could easily be written to recognise and report upon that daylight using previously agreed tolerances to account for the possibility of image degradation or the like. You could even have a camera with tracked movement up and down the pitch in a suitably placed safe position so as to always present a view that was exactly in line with the ball.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:51 pm

I’m not sure they haven’t misunderstood Vincent Kompany.

Quote seemed pretty clear as it was written, but I've asked the author of the article to confirm

https://theathletic.com/5032349/2023/11 ... -mistakes/

Their one win in the topflight came against Luton Town just over a month ago. In truth it feels a lot longer. Burnley will argue they should have two and can point to PGMOL’s apology for ruling out a potential match winning goal against Nottingham Forest as to why.

ClaretOfMancunia wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:00 pm

Quote seemed pretty clear as it was written, but I've asked the author of the article to confirm

https://theathletic.com/5032349/2023/11 ... -mistakes/

As I said, I think Andy has misinterpreted VK's comment

Kompany clearly says “we get a letter, an apology” when talking about the Forest disallowed goal.

Every time I see that the referee is Robert Jones & see him strutting his stuff all around tge pitch with that arrogant demeanour I am reminded oh first ever Premier League appearance at Elland Rd.when we were the visitors.He gave a penalty for Leeds when a 50/50 ball between Nick Pope & Patrick Bamford resulted in the latter taking a tumble & Jones giving a penalty which the pundits agreed was wrong.Later when Ben Mee was totally wiped out by the Leeds goalkeeper Illan Meslier & Ashley Barnes lashed the loose ball in the net for a deserved Burnley equaliser but he had blown for a foul & I thought he’d blown for a penalty but blow me he’d only gone & given Leeds a free kick…unbelievable!

Madpete wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:36 pm

Every time I see that the referee is Robert Jones & see him strutting his stuff all around tge pitch with that arrogant demeanour I am reminded oh first ever Premier League appearance at Elland Rd.when we were the visitors.He gave a penalty for Leeds when a 50/50 ball between Nick Pope & Patrick Bamford resulted in the latter taking a tumble & Jones giving a penalty which the pundits agreed was wrong.Later when Ben Mee was totally wiped out by the Leeds goalkeeper Illan Meslier & Ashley Barnes lashed the loose ball in the net for a deserved Burnley equaliser but he had blown for a foul & I thought he’d blown for a penalty but blow me he’d only gone & given Leeds a free kick…unbelievable!

He is the worst kind of referee, who always thinks his decisions are correct because he gave it. Heard managers saying he is also very difficult to gain access to after a match.

It won’t happen, but would love him to be allocated one of our home matches , so we can give him some pay back for what we think, but expect he is also one of those refs that would thrive and get a hard on with the abuse.

northeastclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:44 pm

We can all see it differently, but to me the United player is already falling as he gets his body in front of the Wolves player and is more about diving than controlling and getting close to the ball.

To me it was similar to the pen Ward gave away at Wolves for kicking Jiminez, all them years back. The attacker put his foot there to be kicked and it was. Fabio should have jockeyed him out of the area. You don’t have to play the ball just shield it.