https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... rm-4400270
no comment

Might not deviate but might relegate.

brexit wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:43 pm

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... rm-4400270
no comment

I really don’t understand his logic.

All the best managers adapt to scenarios and tweak their systems. Why die on this sword?

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:08 pm

I really don’t understand his logic.

All the best managers adapt to scenarios and tweak their systems. Why die on this sword?

Because he has the full backing of the chairman in respect of this project and the way we intend to play?

What else should he do???

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:10 pm

Because he has the full backing of the chairman in respect of this project and the way we intend to play?

what relevance does that have at all?

He’s right in that it isn’t style of play that will relegate us - it’s lack of personnel in certain areas.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:10 pm

What else should he do???

Identify our weaknesses and change the system to suit our strengths?

Or do we just continue to play a system that specifically exposes our weaknesses and hope it somehow works?

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:13 pm

what relevance does that have at all?

Because the board and manager have a longer term vision.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:15 pm

Because the board and manager have a longer term vision.

Playing in the championship?

Well, it explains a lot.

What a bizarre individual we've recruited as a football manager. Then again, one assumes Chairman and Board are fully signed-up to this crazy experiment too.

He should have some friends in the stands, reporting back, telling him how bad it is........

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:17 pm

Playing in the championship?

Well we are not playing in the Championship.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:23 pm

Well we are not playing in the Championship.

We will if he sticks to this style

I hate to say it but it smacks of arrogance. People remember what position you end up at season end, and points scored, not the fact you had 60% possession in a number of games. If this worries a number of us, you can bet your bottom dollar one or two of the Board are now getting very anxious. VK is playing a very dangerous game

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:25 pm

We will if he sticks to this style

We could just as easily go down with a change in both style and manager.

BobSykes wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:19 pm

Well, it explains a lot.

What a bizarre individual we've recruited as a football manager. Then again, one assumes Chairman and Board are fully signed-up to this crazy experiment too.

Bet you didn't think that at the end of last season!

Can he be expected to change style ? Would he even know how to coach differently.

Not like SD started to play tika taka when times got tough..

I wouldn’t care if the style of football was entertaining, it isn’t , it’s dross .

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:33 pm

Bet you didn't think that at the end of last season!

What’s that got to do with anything, different division, different players , different results, a good pragmatic manager would evolve.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:32 pm

We could just as easily go down with a change in both style and manager.

If we can go down easier than with the current style I would be amazed. Again let’s all remember we are currently on to achieve/match the lowest points tally in prem history.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:33 pm

Bet you didn't think that at the end of last season!

Well no, I've just said it tonight in the light of the information that's become available today and over the last few weeks.

Until the past few weeks i thought he was the Messiah.

As did many others.

Fickle bunch on here.
I sincerely believe some are willing us to go down just so as to say "I told you so"

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:43 pm

Fickle bunch on here.
I sincerely believe some are willing us to go down just so as to say "I told you so"

I don’t get you boatshed who is even saying stuff like that?

Everyone is just saying what they can see. This style is dramatically failing. The only person that can’t see it is VK.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:45 pm

I don’t get you boatshed who is even saying stuff like that?

Everyone is just saying what they can see. This style is dramatically failing. The only person that can’t see it is VK.

Who can say what VK can or cannot see?

So if we’re 1-0 down with 5 mins to go ,and the opposition are camped in their own half is VK going to carry on buggering about at the back ,I don’t think so.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:43 pm

Fickle bunch on here.
I sincerely believe some are willing us to go down just so as to say "I told you so"

Nobody wants us to go down

But when the manager sees Plan A isn't working but doesn't have or want a Plan B

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:47 pm

Who can say what VK can or cannot see?

VK himself is saying it, that’s literally the point of the article?

He has literally said that he won’t change style or tactics regardless of results. So clearly he can’t see that it’s failing

Seems to be saying he needs more money for better players.

I'm just sick of the constant criticism, and how quickly so-called fans can turn.
I may be in the minority on here but I still believe we'll stay up, and if we fail I can't think of a better manager than VK to get us back up, particularly as the majority of our squad are his players.

I want to see Muric

I want to see Cork

I want to see more Zaroury

I want to see Berge play higher and in a three man midfield


But most importantly, I want a manager that sticks to what they truly believe. I trust VK 100%. This is a long project….I hope.

Stick to the plan and see it through

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:53 pm

I'm just sick of the constant criticism, and how quickly so-called fans can turn.
I may be in the minority on here but I still believe we'll stay up, and if we fail I can't think of a better manager than VK to get us back up, particularly as the majority of our squad are his players.

It’s part of football, it’s highs and lows. VK and the team got to enjoy the highs last season and now they are experiencing the lows.

To be fair the football this season is deserving of criticism

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:54 pm

It’s part of football, it’s highs and lows. VK and the team got to enjoy the highs last season and now they are experiencing the lows.

To be fair the football this season is deserving of criticism

It's not VK and the players who are bleating about the lows though is it?

I've been critical of how we've started this season but not particularly critical of Kompany. I'm sure he's far more qualified than me to comment but I thought his words about the solution being about getting better or better players- as opposed to style a bit strange.

That kind of thinking no doubt works for Man City but its unlikely to work for Burnley. The best managers make the team better than the sum of it's parts imo.

But he has deviated.
Taylor at left back, Jay up front, Guddy out right.
Either his favoured players aren't ready yet or aren't good enough for these positions.
When he gets the right players in the right positions playing as he wants, then let's see where we are.

It needs to adapt as Thomas Frank and many others in the game identified much earlier in the season. It smacks of stubbornness and not feeling the pressure. Pace looked genuinely gutted when we were relegated from the top flight last time and I find it hard to believe he and the board are happy for us to just sleep walk to relegation and give up on the season so early on.

Our style of play was good enough last season though wasn't it. It seems everyone on this thread wants a return to the austere pragmatism that most of us agree had gotten stale. I'm backing whatever VK does. I think eventually this plan, whatever it is will come good.

ClaretAndBlue94 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:35 pm

Can he be expected to change style ? Would he even know how to coach differently.

Not like SD started to play tika taka when times got tough..

To be fair, Dyche adopted a much more pragmatic style when the chips were down by prioritising a strong defence and grinding out results. We played with more freedom in many spells throughout his time at Burnley but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:25 pm

We will if he sticks to this style

and ?

I’m surprised that VK is refusing to change, even in light of Lowbankclaret’s warning that the Kosovan Mafia headed by Muric’s Dad are after him and his entourage.

I can only assume he’s taken legal advice from our resident attorney PushPinPussy.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:54 pm

It’s part of football, it’s highs and lows. VK and the team got to enjoy the highs last season and now they are experiencing the lows.

To be fair the football this season is deserving of criticism

There a few elements, perhaps, worthy of criticism.

In the main though, it’s been individual errors, caused by inexperience/lack of quality that have cost us games.

From players like Vitinho, Beyer, AAD. Players that played in last years team that everyone seems to think was so much better.

It’s not the style/football being played, it’s the quality of our players and the quality of the opposition that are now asking far greater questions of them.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:51 pm

I’m surprised that VK is refusing to change, even in light of Lowbankclaret’s warning that the Kosovan Mafia headed by Muric’s Dad are after him and his entourage.

I can only assume he’s taken legal advice from our resident attorney PushPinPussy.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 pm

To be fair, Dyche adopted a much more pragmatic style when the chips were down by prioritising a strong defence and grinding out results. We played with more freedom in many spells throughout his time at Burnley but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

I agree, but also worth noting that in doing so I think he made Burnley an unattractive place to play football and in the long term that’s not sustainable.

I’m not certain that the lack of spending was all Garlick penny-pinching, rather just him not willing to fork out on older players with no resale value.

And thus it proved in that when he left we were well stocked with great defensive players but little in the way of creative or attacking players. Many at the end of their careers and plenty at the end of their contracts having been unwilling to re-sign.

This approach is completely different. It may not work, but also shouldn’t leave the squad in the mess it was when Dyche left.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:14 pm

Identify our weaknesses and change the system to suit our strengths?

Or do we just continue to play a system that specifically exposes our weaknesses and hope it somehow works?

I'll try again( God loves a trier). What do you think are our strengths and what 'system' should the manager adopt? Presumably this involves a tactical change or changes. You seem to be the expert on these so any chance you might enlighten us. No hurry, I can ask again next week if you don't know the answer today.

The only thing that annoys me is that managment is meant to be adpating to your teams current strengths and weaknesses.

Anyone can have one philosophy - spend a ton recruiting for said philosophy then have some success - I wouldn't necessarily call that being a top manager though.

Ten Hag has started making comments about the players available to him - he's been backed significantly and isn't coming up with the goods and isn't adapting...

groove wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:39 pm

Our style of play was good enough last season though wasn't it. It seems everyone on this thread wants a return to the austere pragmatism that most of us agree had gotten stale. I'm backing whatever VK does. I think eventually this plan, whatever it is will come good.

Not at all - just be a bit more streetwise and mix play up a tiny bit.

It isn't a binary option between all out total football and route one pragmatism.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:12 pm

I agree, but also worth noting that in doing so I think he made Burnley an unattractive place to play football and in the long term that’s not sustainable.

I’m not certain that the lack of spending was all Garlick penny-pinching, rather just him not willing to fork out on older players with no resale value.

And thus it proved in that when he left we were well stocked with great defensive players but little in the way of creative or attacking players. Many at the end of their careers and plenty at the end of their contracts having been unwilling to re-sign.

This approach is completely different. It may not work, but also shouldn’t leave the squad in the mess it was when Dyche left.

This is really twisting history NewClaret - for a start we had no trouble taking in Maxwel Cornet in his last year - I also don't think Dyche will struggle signing players for Everton either. Paying good wages and being in the Prem is always an attractive situation no matter what.


A lot of this opinion really comes from the media and now social media - labling Dyche as this dinosaur with coaches like VK as some sort of Renaissance artist almost.

If another manager not named VK had his team where we are right now he'd be getting a lot harder questions from the media at pressers and more overall scrutiny - but because it's VK and he's a well liked name he gets a bit more time.

but like I've said all we can do now is back the manager and team.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 pm

...but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

Absolutely.
Unfortunately, at the moment VK seems either unable or unwilling to change tack and do the same. It's a recipe for disaster.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:41 pm

To be fair, Dyche adopted a much more pragmatic style when the chips were down by prioritising a strong defence and grinding out results. We played with more freedom in many spells throughout his time at Burnley but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

if he had picked Cork we wouldn't have gone down.