As above, BBC2 from 12:15 today.

People asking for loans....for formula milk.

Tories cost lives.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:18 pm

People asking for loans....for formula milk.

Tories cost lives.

Those classed as the poorest in this country receive vouchers for free milk and infant formula. This scheme has been running for generations in this country.

https://www.find-government-grants.serv ... rt#summary

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:24 pm

Those classed as the poorest in this country receive vouchers for free milk and infant formula. This scheme has been running for generations in this country.

https://www.find-government-grants.serv ... rt#summary

Which tells us what? Those who aren’t the poorest in this country have had their spending power chipped away again and again over the last however many years and can no longer afford basic necessities.

Is this the man that set up his own bank so he could give bank loans to his own customers to buy his vans?

claret2018 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:42 pm

Which tells us what? Those who aren’t the poorest in this country have had their spending power chipped away again and again over the last however many years and can no longer afford basic necessities.

Rowls is factually correct regarding milk/bread vouchers. However, his lack of empathy seems typical of a generation not really touched by post covid Britain. The haves cannot see the ever increasing number of have nots as anything but lazy, or taking advantage of a soft state, while they pay taxes to pay for it…. As they’ve been repeated told since ‘79 by one of the political parties.

claret2018 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:42 pm

Which tells us what? Those who aren’t the poorest in this country have had their spending power chipped away again and again over the last however many years and can no longer afford basic necessities.

Even with all the costs we're bearing from the burden of the lockdown disaster, UK spending power (by household) is worse than it's been since... 2011.

Was 2011 a particularly harsh year to be alive? Did we have it tough in 2011?

Nobody is going to argue that the relative burden of the costs of crisis brought about by our lockdown policies haven't been difficult to adapt to - drops in relative income are always tricky to manage. The Conservatives are going to get voted out at the next election partly thanks to these mistakes and nobody is going to weep tears for them, even the replacement government is just as bad or worse.

But it is all relative.

If spending tax payers money on welfare was a complete solution to poverty and hardship then we'd have already eradicated it.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:57 pm

Rowls is factually correct regarding milk/bread vouchers. However, his lack of empathy seems typical of a generation not really touched by post covid Britain. The haves cannot see the ever increasing number of have nots as anything but lazy, or taking advantage of a soft state, while they pay taxes to pay for it…. As they’ve been repeated told since ‘79 by one of the political parties.

That's an awful slur to make at me elwaclaret, you really ought to withdraw it. It isn't acceptable to make these baseless and false accusations simply because we might disagree on how to tackle deprivation.

Pointing out that this scheme exists (as have multiple prior schemes) to deliver milk tokens / voucher to the poorest =/= any lack of empathy. You need to review your logic as well as your statement.

Why do you think I care about these matters? Why do you think I chose to work with the homeless and offering benefit advice for 8+ years?

I've pointed out something that I suspect a lot of middle class people who are comfortably off who know very little about. Dare I say it, but I suspect that people who live in giant detached houses and own helicopters might not actually know off the tops of their heads the intricacies of what the welfare state provides. The idea that people are clambering for milk is a highly emotive subject, that's why people are prone to using it to make rhetorical points and it's why politicians of all tribe have -for generations- ensured that the country runs a milk voucher/token scheme.

As I've said before: If the answer to dealing with deprivation was solely down to spending money on benefits then poverty and deprivation would have disappeared in the UK several generations ago. We spend as much as anybody else in the world on our welfare system - it is one of the most generous in the world. We still have the same problems.

I nipped into Morrisons last week to buy some formula for my neice's baby - I'm not exactly hard up but was chastened to return with very little change from £20.

I'd heard about the profiteering in this arena and it really is hitting those hard who are caught between two stools.

(Probably not the best metaphor when talking about babies..)

I’m not sure what David Fishwick knows about politics .:. The opening of his bank seemed like a publicity stunt to me or very naive in thinking opening a bank is like opening a takeaway ?? .:: People on benefits appear to have a misunderstanding often saying .. get the government to pay .. the only money the government has is tax payers money and I think many working people are getting fed up of seeing a large chunk of their income wasted by governments

In reply to Burnley Ace as far as I am aware this is the man who set up his own bank to lend to people who could not get a loan from conventional banks to pay for emergencies. Then any profit made goes to charity.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:19 pm

If spending tax payers money on welfare was a complete solution to poverty and hardship then we'd have already eradicated it.

Hasn’t stopped labour governments from trying that for years tho has it, only for the tories to hit us with austerity to try to steady the ship.

Then guess what?…. the whole cycle begins again.

Red, yellow, blue, green…. Matters not. They all lie, cheat and manipulate at every opportunity.

Political party members/supporters are just like football managers. Nothing is ever their fault, their people are getting it right, the opposition are terrible, the ref is biased, blah blah blah…

bobinho wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:45 pm

Hasn’t stopped labour governments from trying that for years tho has it, only for the tories to hit us with austerity to try to steady the ship.

Then guess what?…. the whole cycle begins again.

Red, yellow, blue, green…. Matters not. They all lie, cheat and manipulate at every opportunity.

Political party members/supporters are just like football managers. Nothing is ever their fault, their people are getting it right, the opposition are terrible, the ref is biased, blah blah blah…

Therein lies the old adage ...

It does not matter who you vote for ... The government gets in .......

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:53 pm

Therein lies the old adage ...

It does not matter who you vote for ... The government gets in .......

And of course “if voting really changed anything, they’d abolish it”.

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:38 pm

As above, BBC2 from 12:15 today.

I only posted earlier to let people know that Dave Fishwick was on tv.

I think many have seen his film. A nice film. Lots of the film is not accurate - and, not just the bit about a band playing at Turf Moor. Nice, however, to see Burnley portrayed well in a film.

Dave Fishwick didn't set up a bank. There's an enormous amount more to running a bank than Dave Fishwick has experience of. I believe he's set up some form of local credit union - in addition, as mentioned above, of running a finance company that provides finance to businesses buying vans and minibuses from his minibus supply business.

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:06 pm

I only posted earlier to let people know that Dave Fishwick was on tv.

I think many have seen his film. A nice film. Lots of the film is not accurate - and, not just the bit about a band playing at Turf Moor. Nice, however, to see Burnley portrayed well in a film.

Dave Fishwick didn't set up a bank. There's an enormous amount more to running a bank than Dave Fishwick has experience of. I believe he's set up some form of local credit union - in addition, as mentioned above, of running a finance company that provides finance to businesses buying vans and minibuses from his minibus supply business.

I thought he couldn't get a licence to open a bank, thus the credit union?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:20 pm

I thought he couldn't get a licence to open a bank, thus the credit union?

That's my (limited) understanding of it.

Although I suppose I've poured a little bit of cold water on the inference of milk not being subsidized or handed out, I really ought to say that I like Dave and his ethos.

He gets a fair bit of criticism but his heart appears to be firmly in the right place and it's clear he's got the best interests of Burnley and it's citizens in mind.

The actual name of his business is "Burnley Savings and Loans"

Started in 2011, by 2022 around £27 million had been dished out in loans to businesses and individuals.
(According to Wiki)

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:20 pm

I thought he couldn't get a licence to open a bank, thus the credit union?

I was wrong in describing Burnley Savings and Loans as a "credit union." It appears to be a non-credit union. (Credit Unions are regulated by both FCA and PRA. BS&L is only regulated by FCA).

"Bank on Dave!" (not "of" Dave), i.e. Burnley Savings and Loans Ltd couldn't get a licence to become a bank. It was set up in Sept 2011.

The "About" section on website includes mention of applying to become a regulated bank - but there's no date indicating when this application was submitted.

NEW CHALLENGES
Currently BSAL is applying to become a UK regulated bank; “The Bank of Dave”; a bank for the community, run by the community, offering an expanded range of products to an expanded audience.

www.burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk/about/

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:37 pm

That's an awful slur to make at me elwaclaret, you really ought to withdraw it. It isn't acceptable to make these baseless and false accusations simply because we might disagree on how to tackle deprivation.

Pointing out that this scheme exists (as have multiple prior schemes) to deliver milk tokens / voucher to the poorest =/= any lack of empathy. You need to review your logic as well as your statement.

Why do you think I care about these matters? Why do you think I chose to work with the homeless and offering benefit advice for 8+ years?

I've pointed out something that I suspect a lot of middle class people who are comfortably off who know very little about. Dare I say it, but I suspect that people who live in giant detached houses and own helicopters might not actually know off the tops of their heads the intricacies of what the welfare state provides. The idea that people are clambering for milk is a highly emotive subject, that's why people are prone to using it to make rhetorical points and it's why politicians of all tribe have -for generations- ensured that the country runs a milk voucher/token scheme.

As I've said before: If the answer to dealing with deprivation was solely down to spending money on benefits then poverty and deprivation would have disappeared in the UK several generations ago. We spend as much as anybody else in the world on our welfare system - it is one of the most generous in the world. We still have the same problems.

If I am wide of the mark of course I withdraw the statement. However I believe the reason so many people have had to turn to people like yourself (no disrespect intended in the tone) is because the public sector has been starved of money to an appalling level for too many years for it to function.

It is popular to condemn Labour for overspending on public services, but just imagine the mess we would be in now if they had not spent so heavy on updating the public infrastructure. How anyone could claim financial safe hands after offering “free money” during COVID is beyond me. When I spoke to HMRC last year they were stunned that although my side business did not warrant support, I hadn’t claimed the thousands I could have during COVID to put my small business on easy street…

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:24 pm

Those classed as the poorest in this country receive vouchers for free milk and infant formula. This scheme has been running for generations in this country.

https://www.find-government-grants.serv ... rt#summary

Foodbanks not quite as long.

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:20 pm

People on benefits appear to have a misunderstanding often saying .. get the government to pay .. the only money the government has is tax payers money and I think many working people are getting fed up of seeing a large chunk of their income wasted by governments

I understand that currently over 40% of people on benefits are working people, but certain media outlets brand all recipients of Universal Credit as feckless scroungers. A small minority might be, but the vast majority are decent, honest people, and many are very hardworking.

Shelter just announced 139,000 children currently homeless in UK. Scandalous.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:24 pm

Those classed as the poorest in this country receive vouchers for free milk and infant formula. This scheme has been running for generations in this country.

https://www.find-government-grants.serv ... rt#summary

The point is that the Government policies have caused millions of others, to drop into the mire.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:58 pm

And of course “if voting really changed anything, they’d abolish it”.

One step away, at present.
Just need the right 'national emergency'.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:05 pm

The point is that the Government policies have caused millions of others, to drop into the mire.

You are very nearly correct here Ian. It's simpler than what you say though, it's not "policies" in the plural; it is a single policy.

Benefit dependency was in long term decline from 2011. The numbers on out of work benefits dropped and figures for people in work rose - quite sharply - and at a time when many people had predicted the exact opposite.

This was under David Cameron's Conservative government and under the coalition. The trend continued, although it slowed slightly, under Theresa May and Boris Johnson.

The government policy that reversed these gains overnight was lockdown.

An extra one million (1,000,000) people started claiming benefits during the government imposed lockdown and the number has NEVER gone down.

Lockdown has put an extra million people inside of the welfare trap.