• Who are we catching?

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:11 pm**

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I cannot see us realistically catching any of the above. They’ve got good managers and good Premier League Squads.

Anyone disagree?

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:24 pm**

Quite agree cc, but wouldn't be surprised to see Luton swap places with one of them above, their manager is learning very fast and he has a good group of honest pro's that are up for the fight and certainly want it more than we do imo.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:27 pm**

I agree. We’re going down.

Do we really need a new thread after every game to conclude that?

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:31 pm**

There's still hope we can catch Palace or Forest. We have just beat Fulham away 2-0 who are 10 points in front and had Liverpool rocking for a short while last night, I'm not waving the white flag yet but you can carry on.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:36 pm**

We comfortably beat Fulham’s good premier league squad and manager last week. It’s a challenge but there’s a lot of football to be played yet.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:40 pm**

HahaYeah wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:31 pm
There's still hope we can catch Palace or Forest. We have just beat Fulham away 2-0 who are 10 points in front and had Liverpool rocking for a short while last night, I'm not waving the white flag yet but you can carry on.

I just don’t see us making up those six points as well as keeping pace. We don’t have the experience in the squad or an experienced manager. IMO, you need one or the other or ideally both to manage this end of the table.

I don't want us to wave the white flag, I wanted and want us to be a Premier League team.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:35 pm**

Nobody unfortunately...

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:39 pm**

I can’t see us avoiding the drop. But if we do start picking up points then I think Palace and Forest are the only ones likely to get dragged into it. To be honest it’s more fun in the Championship.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:39 pm**

Forest is the only posssibility. But that win against Newcastle has made me think we are done for really. Everyone above the relegation is heading for at least 33 points. I dont see us getting that

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:44 pm**

I'm assuming you think we can catch Bournemouth and Chelsea as you haven't put a red cross against their name.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:32 pm**

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:44 pm
I'm assuming you think we can catch Bournemouth and Chelsea as you haven't put a red cross against their name.

Nor have I against United, Aston Villa, Arsenal and so on…

Christ on a bike

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:36 pm**

I've caught devil's advocate on another thread.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:50 pm**

Rowls wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:36 pm
I've caught devil's advocate on another thread.

Easy catch and release.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:06 pm**

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:36 pm
We comfortably beat Fulham’s good premier league squad and manager last week. It’s a challenge but there’s a lot of football to be played yet.

I wouldn't call it comfortable, a degree of fortune our only 2 shots on target went in, while Trafford saved all 5 of theirs.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:15 pm**

CombatClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:06 pm
I wouldn't call it comfortable, a degree of fortune our only 2 shots on target went in, while Trafford saved all 5 of theirs.

Or we were clinical and defensively sound?

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:16 pm**

Yes, I disagree.
19 games left. Forest, Fulham, Brentford and Palace all catchable. Everton have played themselves out of it.
I suppose I’m just not ready to throw the towel in.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:19 pm**

It's not a good look for the EPL if all three promoted teams drop back down- and more ammo for the 'non-relegation' movement.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:36 pm**

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:15 pm
Or we were clinical and defensively sound?

Most shots from outside the box have a low chance of scoring, reflected in our xG of 0.42
Meanwhile, Fulham had an xG of 1.4 and were unlucky their higher number and higher probability chances did not find the net.
They made 12 passes within 20 yards of our goal while we made 2.

Sounds like we rode our luck.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:43 pm**

Goliath wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:39 pm
Forest is the only posssibility.

Palace lost again tonight, three points outside the relegation spots and on a dreadful run of form.
Think it's something like 1 win in 12.

So if Forest can be caught, maybe CP can be too.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:45 pm**

Nobody. Luton have the best chance based on what I’ve seen and I’ve watched quite a few of their games. Forest were in it and result at Newcastle was a big surprise but the managerial change may help them.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:48 pm**

CombatClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:36 pm
Most shots from outside the box have a low chance of scoring, reflected in our xG of 0.42
Meanwhile, Fulham had an xG of 1.4 and were unlucky their higher number and higher probability chances did not find the net.
They made 12 passes within 20 yards of our goal while we made 2.

Sounds like we rode our luck.

Comfortable win for us. You’re just downplaying it

We don’t need to have any shots or passes in their box when we’re 2-0 up. Professional comfortable performance, Trafford wasn’t tested all afternoon.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:49 pm**

dougcollins wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:19 pm
It's not a good look for the EPL if all three promoted teams drop back down- and more ammo for the 'non-relegation' movement.

or not a good look for Championship as it shows how weak it was last season

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:52 pm**

bigdavethemaddog wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:49 pm
or not a good look for Championship as it shows how weak it was last season

Yes, same difference really- just showing up the gap.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:03 pm**

ElectroClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:43 pm
Palace lost again tonight, three points outside the relegation spots and on a dreadful run of form.
Think it's something like 1 win in 12.

So if Forest can be caught, maybe CP can be too.

Palace are a decent side they just had a bit of an injury crisis wuth Olise and Eze both missing. Theyl be absolutely fine

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:28 pm**

Palace would normally have the magic feet ( both on the ground and in the air) to get them points when they’ve looked like getting drawn down in past seasons.
His absence may be the difference this season

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:47 pm**

Goliath wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:03 pm
Palace are a decent side they just had a bit of an injury crisis wuth Olise and Eze both missing. Theyl be absolutely fine

They both played tonight. I'm not so sure. Talented players, but not regular goalscorers like Zaha was.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:57 pm**

Cooclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:32 pm
Nor have I against United, Aston Villa, Arsenal and so on…

Christ on a bike

Sorry I didn’t see them in the table you kindly provided in your OP.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:13 pm**

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:47 pm
They both played tonight. I'm not so sure. Talented players, but not regular goalscorers like Zaha was.

Olises got 3 in 8 according to a quick google, pretty good record. Also changes them completely as a team when those 2 play, they have the ability to keep the ball so they can play more proactively.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:14 pm**

Forest lose next weekend against Man Utd home and then Brentford away 0-2. We lose to Villa away 0-1 and beat Luton at home 2-0.

We then beat Forest 2-0 on the final day. All other games are identical. We stay up by 1 goal.

Are we really saying that is so implausible we throw in the towel? The lack of fighting spirit on here amazes me at times, and, yes, that is what the team have been showing, fighting spirit, not a lack of it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:18 pm**

Applause for that Crosspool

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:31 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:14 pm
Forest lose next weekend against Man Utd home and then Brentford away 0-2. We lose to Villa away 0-1 and beat Luton at home 2-0.

We then beat Forest 2-0 on the final day. All other games are identical. We stay up by 1 goal.

Are we really saying that is so implausible we throw in the towel? The lack of fighting spirit on here amazes me at times, and, yes, that is what the team have been showing, fighting spirit, not a lack of it.

Agreed with this. There's been a weird tendency to downplay the games where we've got results too. We've had a crap start, it's undeniable, but there's a bit to go yet.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:36 pm**

Goliath wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:13 pm
Olises got 3 in 8 according to a quick google, pretty good record. Also changes them completely as a team when those 2 play, they have the ability to keep the ball so they can play more proactively.

They can cause issues, but have a tendency to overplay on occasion too. Also have a rick in them - poor challenge by Eze that lead to Chelsea's pen. I'm not convinced Hodgson is the right man either. I think they'll stay up, but I don't think it'll be comfortable.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:09 am**

It's exactly the same as next seasons promoted clubs will face - IF its leeds and leicester then they play similar to us and find it comfortable this season compared to last but then the gulf kicks in and you get ruthlessly punished. The 3rd club won't be good enough and relegation fodder.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:55 am**

Unfortunately we aren't catching no one, us and Sheff Utd are down and it's another one from five

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:05 am**

It's pretty much irrelevant at this stage, all teams have to play 38 games and then you see where you are at the season's end. As I've said numerous times another 8 wins gives us 11 wins and no team in PL history has been relegated with that number of wins, whether we achieve those wins, well that's another matter mind you but all I will say is is that as poor as we've been in many games this season we are still in touch and it's guaranteed that at least one of those teams just outside the relegation zone will go on a poor run, it's if we can capitalise when they do

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:10 am**

We've been down for months.

Fair play to those who're feeling more optimistic but it's been a pathetic whimper of a season so far in my opinion. It's seemed that from day one the plan has been to go down and (try) to come back up next season. Which I find odd seeing as much of ALK's plan relies on Premier League exposure and investment.

I've never bought the three-year-plan and that we are ahead of schedule. I'm not having that Kompany or Pace would've wanted to spend years in the Championship. We'll never know for certain but I think promotion last season was the aim from the off.

Just a shame that once there it's like we've done everything possible to handicap ourselves.

I've found the majority of this season just plain bizarre.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:14 am**

I can see Brentford being dragged into it too.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:34 am**

Pickles wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:10 am
We've been down for months.

Fair play to those who're feeling more optimistic but it's been a pathetic whimper of a season so far in my opinion. It's seemed that from day one the plan has been to go down and (try) to come back up next season. Which I find odd seeing as much of ALK's plan relies on Premier League exposure and investment.

I've never bought the three-year-plan and that we are ahead of schedule. I'm not having that Kompany or Pace would've wanted to spend years in the Championship. We'll never know for certain but I think promotion last season was the aim from the off.

Just a shame that once there it's like we've done everything possible to handicap ourselves.

I've found the majority of this season just plain bizarre.

The plan from day one wasn't to go down.

Kompany and Pace didn't want to spend years in the Championship.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:37 am**

Problem is for a team like us in this league is that when there's a decent gap, it's almost impossible for us to put a winning run together to make it up just by the nature of the teams in the league.

We may get back to back wins at some point, but then there's always a City, Liverpool etc around the corner within the fixtures and that run ends quickly.

We really needed to be closer to the pack to have any chance of dragging somebody else into it. The Forrest injustice away, the Bournemouth non penalty, the two dominant performances against Palace and West Ham at home where we came away with nothing really will come back to haunt us.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:38 am**

I don’t buy that we’re down yet. We’ve had a really difficult set of home fixtures and done alright away.

https://x.com/other14the/status/1740133 ... mT5OAvLMcA

This Twitter account has always been a decent guide. In terms of their ‘baseline’ there are currently 3 teams worse than us, based on the difficulty of the fixtures so far.

We’ve put huge pressure on ourselves to get results in the remaining home games which isn’t ideal, but it’s not over yet.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:42 am**

taio wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:34 am
Kompany and Pace didn't want to spend years in the Championship.

I totally agree. Which makes the way we've rolled over this season all the more odd.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:42 am**

KEEP THE BLOODY FAITH LADS!!!

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:44 am**

Pickles wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:42 am
I totally agree. Which makes the way we've rolled over this season all the more odd.

We have not rolled over. We've just found the step up tremendously difficult. We are in a precarious position but the season isn't over - plenty to play for.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:56 am**

taio wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:44 am
We have not rolled over. We've just found the step up tremendously difficult. We are in a precarious position but the season isn't over - plenty to play for.

Found the step up tremendously difficulty - I agree there. I'm hoping for a fantastic end to the season with a bit more grit and intensity to claw us out of trouble.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:00 am**

Foshiznik wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:14 am
I can see Brentford being dragged into it too.

Brentford have two wins and a draw on us. Just to get even we have to make those up and then we need to get one more point than them over the rest of the season.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:53 am**

Unfortunately the teams that are still within reach are having bad runs at present. Statistically they must improve as much as us so will not get caught.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:37 am**

MDWat wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:38 am
I don’t buy that we’re down yet. We’ve had a really difficult set of home fixtures and done alright away.

https://x.com/other14the/status/1740133 ... mT5OAvLMcA

This Twitter account has always been a decent guide. In terms of their ‘baseline’ there are currently 3 teams worse than us, based on the difficulty of the fixtures so far.

We’ve put huge pressure on ourselves to get results in the remaining home games which isn’t ideal, but it’s not over yet.

Essentially that Twitter account focuses on home games against sides not in the big six. Points different to if a team wins all those 13 home games.

That Brentford and Forest are below us on that metric suggests they have had a lot of their easier home games used up. We have most to come, only Arsenal to come of the top teams, then we are into the second batch like Newcastle and Brighton.

If we can win 6 of those winnable home games we have a chance because Brentford and Forest will have to win some away to compensate. Let’s for sake of argument call those 6 Luton, Forest, Brentford, Wolves, Fulham and Brighton. Unlikely to beat them all at home but possible.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:05 am**

Foshiznik wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:14 am
I can see Brentford being dragged into it too.

Brentford are struggling with the loss of Mbeumo and Mee. Also, isn’t Ivan Toney due back playing soon?
I am expecting a change of manager at Crystal Palace soon and see that Roy Hodgson is now favourite in the sack race. If, as widely expected, Steve Cooper is appointed they could benefit from a “new manager” bounce.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:48 pm**

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:05 am
Brentford are struggling with the loss of Mbeumo and Mee. Also, isn’t Ivan Toney due back playing soon?
I am expecting a change of manager at Crystal Palace soon and see that Roy Hodgson is now favourite in the sack race. If, as widely expected, Steve Cooper is appointed they could benefit from a “new manager” bounce.

I think Toney is going to a big club; my moneys on United, but likely Chelsea/Arsenal to stay in London.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 1:30 pm**

First time in the Premier League that at Christmas time, I’m convinced we won’t beat the drop. And I’m OK with that, as long as we compete as well as we can in games.

I think Vinny, the players and Alan Pace know this as well.

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