Rest In Peace John

A very sad day for investigative journalism.

His report/documentary of the Cambodian genocide was superb and harrowing.
RIP

I was only thinking of him recently.

Very sad news.

Another “good en gone”.

As usual Wiki does a pretty good job of indexing JP’s important work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pilger

R.I.P. John Pilger

Upset numerous members of the 'Establishments' all over the world.
Probably because the Truth can invariably hurt or, just isn't always convenient.

RIP John Pilger an honest journalist,what a rarity.

Proper investigative journalist. Him and Paul Foot were the best of their breed.

Sad news for his family and those who knew him but probably important to mention for those of us who didn't that he was a proper crank.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:34 pm

Sad news for his family and those who knew him but probably important to mention for those of us who didn't that he was a proper crank.

?

Free thinking independent journalist. Rattled the establishment many times. Will be greatly missed. RIP

RIP John Pilger

Remember in an interview many years ago saying the Falklands changed him completely… one of his reports was quoting an officer, “the only thing holding us up is the weather”. The censors changed it to “the only thing holding us up are the politicians” - he decided then that if officials refused to accept any kind of suffering on the battlefield, just how much was being hidden ‘for our own good’

RIP John Pilger, the main inspiration for me pursuing my HND in media communications in the early ‘90’s.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:34 pm

Sad news for his family and those who knew him but probably important to mention for those of us who didn't that he was a proper crank.

Please explain ?

An extremely good investigative journalist JP.
RIP

Very sad news.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:34 pm

Sad news for his family and those who knew him but probably important to mention for those of us who didn't that he was a proper crank.

What a strange thing to say.

A great journalist in lots of ways but his views on Putin, Assad and Milosevic were questionable, to put it mildly.

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:56 pm

A great journalist in lots of ways but his views on Putin, Assad and Milosevic were questionable, to put it mildly.

True but it’s one thing to comment on some opinions of leaders and supporting illegal wars being prosecuted in my view.

His work was certainly thought provoking which made him different and interesting. However I later thought he had an agenda and no longer trusted his reporting.

He did some seriously good investigations.
I don't see the like of him in the media now.

South West Claret. wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 12:56 pm

I was only thinking of him recently.

Very sad news.

Another “good en gone”.

Yes, & sadly they seem to have stopped making them. RIP.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:51 pm

His work was certainly thought provoking which made him different and interesting. However I later thought he had an agenda and no longer trusted his reporting.

His position on the Ukraine war was a little troublesome, an anti-imperialist questioning Ukraine’s right to exist. However, as ever his historical referencing is reasonable enough, Odessa was pretty important to the people’s revolution… where for me he errs in so much as that the Bolshevik Revolution came later and was nothing to do with popular sovereignty of Odessa’s October Revolution.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:31 pm

Proper investigative journalist. Him and Paul Foot were the best of their breed.

Paul Foot was my hero…amazing journalist!

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:31 pm

His position on the Ukraine war was a little troublesome, an anti-imperialist questioning Ukraine’s right to exist. However, as ever his historical referencing is reasonable enough, Odessa was pretty important to the people’s revolution… where for me he errs in so much as that the Bolshevik Revolution came later and was nothing to do with popular sovereignty of Odessa’s October Revolution.

Hi position on western antagonism of China was misguided.

He was a fine investigative journalist, until he turned into a West hating conspiracy theorists crank.

brexit wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:13 pm

Hi position on western antagonism of China was misguided.

Not really paid much attention to his comments on China, but again it depends when he was referencing. Chairman Meo initially saw America as an ongoing ally after the war (but not Russia) and appealed for aid (and American influence in their new republic)- Truman wanted ‘commies’ defeated and refused. Eisenhower continued the policy and getting closer with Taiwan. By early invasion plans for Laos there was a plan to nuke Beijing before they invaded Laos… This policy gathered a pace when JFK became President and would have been a fully fledged invasion of Laos from Taiwan.. but this was scrapped with soldiers on the tarmac in Taiwan because of the complete cock up of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. This was opposed by Britain and marked one of the relationships lowest points… it took the end of Vietnam before America accepted the compromise for Laos that the British government had suggested (with the former colonists France) would avoid war before a shot was fired in Vietnam.

America certainly did ostracise the Chinese during the Great Leap Forward hoping it would collapse… and created the antagonism that continues today.

He took up the (unfortunately common on the left) position that imperialism is something bad the US and its allies do to the rest of the world. It's a great position when it is applied to things that the US and its allies do but a very stupid position when you use it to justify atrocities committed by Putin, Assad etc.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:08 pm

He took up the (unfortunately common on the left) position that imperialism is something bad the US and its allies do to the rest of the world. It's a great position when it is applied to things that the US and its allies do but a very stupid position when you use it to justify atrocities committed by Putin, Assad etc.

Can I suggest you request access to the historical records of the CIA… it is all there in meeting minutes. America was looking for an empire by any other name and were messing in in the internal politics in Asia, South America and Europe in their obsessive pursuit of killing communism from the late forties until the end of the Cold War. The relationships (and politics) of today very much created the modern political environment… that brought these modern leaders to power.

Are America to blame, then? Probably, but only with a massive spoonful of hindsight and omnipotent availability to revisit the period with access to all the internal discussions now no longer covered by Official Secrets due to longevity (America fifty years and Britain seventy, if memory serves).

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:19 pm

Can I suggest you request access to the historical records of the CIA… it is all there in meeting minutes. America was looking for an empire by any other name and were messing in in the internal politics in Asia, South America and Europe in their obsessive pursuit of killing communism from the late forties until the end of the Cold War. The relationships (and politics) of today very much created the modern political environment… that brought these modern leaders to power.

Are America to blame, then? Probably, but only with a massive spoonful of hindsight and omnipotent availability to revisit the period with access to all the internal discussions now no longer covered by Official Secrets due to longevity (America fifty years and Britain seventy, if memory serves).

If you are saying America is to blame when Russia does something bad, that is very stupid.

America is very bad and its foreign policy has always been very evil. But when Russia does something bad, that's Russia. This is what Pilger chose not to understand and what made him a massive crank.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:22 pm

If you are saying America is to blame when Russia does something bad, that is very stupid.

America is very bad and its foreign policy has always been very evil. But when Russia does something bad, that's Russia. This is what Pilger chose not to understand and what made him a massive crank.

Haha, very stupid is not understanding that the political actions have consequences for future generations attitudes, future generations make decisions that are based on past experience… that is how BAD men come to power to do bad things.

This is well worth reading.

Even a week before the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Pilger — a regular guest on the propaganda TV channel Russia Today — dismissed such a possibility as western propaganda to assist the “Neo-Nazi Ukrainian government”. Instead, “Nato itself is the real threat to European security”.

On the Russian poisoning in 2018 of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury, Pilger asserted: “This is a carefully ­constructed drama as part of the propaganda campaign that has been building now for several years in order to justify the actions of Nato, Britain and the United States, towards Russia.”

Yep. A crank.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/074a ... fee9c569c8

You have to read the minutes from CIA meetings to understand why Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the USA's fault.

If you believe leaders appear out of eggs with no socialisation you can ignore history and refute evidence with bigotry.

I do not agree with John Pilger’s position on Russia, but I understand his references, even if I disagree with his conclusions. Pilger and others have been taken in by Putin, and still are as the man they believed was taking up the mantle from Gorbachev - when Stalin is a far better comparison…