TRAFFORD

[beddie]

Isn’t Crouch about 6’7”, on that basis Trafford is not 6’6”. Probably more like 5” 11 or 6ft.

[NewClaret]

I find it strange to how people seem to only talk about Traffords potential, muric is what 24/25 years old, already has the natural vision and feet that a modern keeper has, muric has the potential to be a quality keeper given the chance.

However the games we have won and drawn we would have regardless of which keeper we had in goal and I can’t think why games that Trafford has directly cost us points, the 10 other players in front haven’t been good enough

I agree about Muric’s potential and I’m quite surprised the club didn’t try to capitalise on that while developing Trafford in the background.

Top teams want keepers who are good with the ball at their feet. They’re less bothered about the more traditional aspects of goalkeeping as they expect to be called in to action less often. I honestly think we could’ve made a fortune off Muric had we played him more and I’m disappointed we didn’t to get to find out.

That said, I find the singling out of Trafford quite shocking. He could’ve done better with each goal, yes, but in both cases the absolute lackluster performances defending the corner and then conceding from our own throw in (Amdouni, Ekdal both extremely poor) shows me that Trafford isn’t the problem, but what’s in front of him.

As you point out, I’m not sure we’d have picked up any more points with Muric and arguably less as I’m not sure he would’ve made many of the saves Trafford has to keep us in games.

Anyone shouting Muric to Kompany/our England U21 gk needs to have a word with themselves.

[Steve1956]

I suggest that Leisure and Steve 1956 read CT’s report .

I can't be arsed.

[Cooclaret]

I agree about Muric’s potential and I’m quite surprised the club didn’t try to capitalise on that while developing Trafford in the background.

Top teams want keepers who are good with the ball at their feet. They’re less bothered about the more traditional aspects of goalkeeping as they expect to be called in to action less often. I honestly think we could’ve made a fortune off Muric had we played him more and I’m disappointed we didn’t to get to find out.

That said, I find the singling out of Trafford quite shocking. He could’ve done better with each goal, yes, but in both cases the absolute lackluster performances defending the corner and then conceding from our own throw in (Amdouni, Ekdal both extremely poor) shows me that Trafford isn’t the problem, but what’s in front of him.

As you point out, I’m not sure we’d have picked up any more points with Muric and arguably less as I’m not sure he would’ve made many of the saves Trafford has to keep us in games.

Anyone shouting Muric to Kompany/our England U21 gk needs to have a word with themselves.

I think Trafford has come in with a very strict agreement that he plays. I firmly believe, but have no evidence, that there is a buy back already agreed.

He is a really good keeper, he’s getting better. He will be Englands no1 post Pickford.

[StayingDown4Ever]

I think Trafford has come in with a very strict agreement that he plays. I firmly believe, but have no evidence, that there is a buy back already agreed.

Is that actually a thing for players who have been bought?

I understand it being written into loan agreements and you see players being returned who can’t get into the side - but to be forced to play someone who is ours doesn’t seem right.

[JBR]

Anyone shouting Muric to Kompany/our England U21 gk needs to have a word with themselves.

Fans have every right to shout what they want. They’ve just ****** the league with a keeper that’s been dropped for the whole of this season and there’s been no explanation why. His replacement hasn’t pulled any trees up and made mistake after mistake with no chance of Muric getting back in.

[Nori1958]

I think Trafford has come in with a very strict agreement that he plays. I firmly believe, but have no evidence, that there is a buy back already agreed.

He is a really good keeper, he’s getting better. He will be Englands no1 post Pickford.

No player has that sort of agreement, other than some loans.

[123EasyasBFC]

I can’t understand us not signing Trafford last season and giving him a year in championship instead of getting muric, had Trafford had 12 months with us already he would be a completely different keeper now

[Darthlaw]

Yes its a Trafford thread but I'm actually surprised that Muric is still with us. Not a murmur in the transfer window about any suitors or agent release to the press to stir up interest.

As has been said, he has the trait of being good with his feet which is often desirable amongst the top teams and you can't imagine he'd be too expensive given he's currently a reserve, albeit the one who won championship GK of the year.

Hopefully its not that hes on some silly contract like Man City do, where other teams arent prepared to match his wages.

[LincsWoldsClaret]

Strange how Muric’s mistakes in the first half of last season have all been forgotten

[123EasyasBFC]

Strange how Muric’s mistakes in the first half of last season have all been forgotten

What mistakes? Blackpool at home which Cullen is equally to blame and then Watford at home which is solely on muric but he was hooked at half time for it. Other than that name another mistake muric made that lead to a goal?

You can’t compare the two seasons due to the opposition but muric isn’t been given a chance.

[Swizzlestick]

Perhaps they’ve been forgotten because a) there wasn’t that many of them and b) he markedly improved as the season went on, and was a crucial part of the team that romped to promotion.

[CoolClaret]

Strange how Muric’s mistakes in the first half of last season have all been forgotten

We conceded 35 goals in 46 games mate and lost 3 games all season

This season of course a higher standard, we've won just three and conceded 47 in 23 games, all while actually losing our playstyle and identity in the process.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Strange how Muric’s mistakes in the first half of last season have all been forgotten

Don’t remember a 15 page thread on Muric last season.

[dsr]

Strange how Muric’s mistakes in the first half of last season have all been forgotten

Muric was judged by different standards. If Muric was beaten by a near post header from 4 yards out (deflected), there were no great cries about how incompetent he was and how it's unacceptable to be beaten from that range.

[Devils_Advocate]

My main concern about Trafford is that if we go down Im not sure we'll be able to keep hold of him and we'll probably have to settle for our money back or only a small profit.

[Big Vinny K]

We could go through the first dozen or so games last season and list the mistakes Muric made but let’s just keep it simple.
Most fans last year were thinking WTF at the start of last season and but for the fact that the teams we were playing were mostly sh-ite we would have been punished like we have been this season.

Muric then got better with his decision making and we also improved as a team and ended up with the best defensive record - Muric was part of that but he also benefited from the fact we just became a better team.

Traffords journey this season has also been similar. He’s got better as we got better - he’s been partly responsible for that improvement.

I don’t think Trafford has conceded many goals at all he should have saved. But I’d rather have Muric because he does distribute the ball quicker and better.

At the end of the day both keepers right now are not good enough for the PL but we’d probably get away with their many shortcomings in the championship

[LincsWoldsClaret]

We conceded 35 goals in 46 games mate and lost 3 games all season

This season of course a higher standard, we've won just three and conceded 47 in 23 games, all while actually losing our playstyle and identity in the process.

I agree - but Trafford is the one who has kept us in games - pretty much every week. He has an ever-changing and poorer defence in front of him, yet he receives all the abuse on this board (but not from the wider audience). You can choose most of our players in the side to have a go at, singling out the keeper is massively wrong.

He is not responsible for the change in playing style - he does what he’s told.

[Ric_C]

I think Trafford has come in with a very strict agreement that he plays. I firmly believe, but have no evidence, that there is a buy back already agreed.

He is a really good keeper, he’s getting better. He will be Englands no1 post Pickford.

If there is a buy back that is even worse. We watch him make all the rookie errors, and when he gets good, City buy him back anyway

Anyone who thought Trafford had a "good" game on Saturday knows nothing about goalkeeping. He saved 3-4 routine shots, and the tip over the bar was a very good save I'll give him that. And I get he is a young lad, and I would never boo him or slag him at the games as that is unfair.

BUT

Once again:
Indecision on when to come out of his area in general
Poor communication at corners, why didn't he organise the defence to get Fulham's number 4 away from him. That is HIS job
Indecision on the deflected cross which led to the 1st goal
General flapping at corners in the second half once again
Poor distribution

He just doesn't fill me with any confidence, and although he has had some good games, I feel as though he is a flashy GK which makes easy saves look good and prone to the odd error.

If I was Muric right now I'd be absolutely fuming

[dsr]

If there is a buy back that is even worse. We watch him make all the rookie errors, and when he gets good, City buy him back anyway

Anyone who thought Trafford had a "good" game on Saturday knows nothing about goalkeeping. He saved 3-4 routine shots, and the tip over the bar was a very good save I'll give him that. And I get he is a young lad, and I would never boo him or slag him at the games as that is unfair.

BUT

Once again:
Indecision on when to come out of his area in general
Poor communication at corners, why didn't he organise the defence to get Fulham's number 4 away from him. That is HIS job
Indecision on the deflected cross which led to the 1st goal
General flapping at corners in the second half once again
Poor distribution

He just doesn't fill me with any confidence, and although he has had some good games, I feel as though he is a flashy GK which makes easy saves look good and prone to the odd error.

If I was Muric right now I'd be absolutely fuming

When you say that he should have come for the deflected cross and ignored Muniz who looked likely to head it towards goal, it makes it hard to take the rest of it seriously. It is nonsense to say a keeper should ignore the man who is trying to shoot because saving the corner is more important. you can't simply rely on the centre half (O'Shea) stopping Muniz from shooting.

[alwaysaclaret]

If there is a buy back that is even worse. We watch him make all the rookie errors, and when he gets good, City buy him back anyway

Anyone who thought Trafford had a "good" game on Saturday knows nothing about goalkeeping. He saved 3-4 routine shots, and the tip over the bar was a very good save I'll give him that. And I get he is a young lad, and I would never boo him or slag him at the games as that is unfair.

BUT

Once again:
Indecision on when to come out of his area in general
Poor communication at corners, why didn't he organise the defence to get Fulham's number 4 away from him. That is HIS job
Indecision on the deflected cross which led to the 1st goal
General flapping at corners in the second half once again
Poor distribution

He just doesn't fill me with any confidence, and although he has had some good games, I feel as though he is a flashy GK which makes easy saves look good and prone to the odd error.

If I was Muric right now I'd be absolutely fuming

A show pony springs to mind, how many times has he turned a simple standard dive into something spectacular, just for the cameras.

[boatshed bill]

A show pony springs to mind, how many times has he turned a simple standard dive into something spectacular, just for the cameras.

I don't think it's that. He is very agile, but Gordon Banks made saves look easy, that's real class

[alwaysaclaret]

I don't think it's that. He is very agile, but Gordon Banks made saves look easy, that's real class

No, all for the camera in my opinion, and Trafford will never be anywhere remotely near banks class, light year's off..

[Darthlaw]

My main concern about Trafford is that if we go down Im not sure we'll be able to keep hold of him and we'll probably have to settle for our money back or only a small profit.

Its a cultured cast but such subtlety isnt needed to get a rise from your target demographic here, DA.

[claretonthecoast1882]

There can't be an adult anywhere that really thinks when Trafford is facing a shot he is thinking how can I make this look good for the camera.

I get there is some real dross posted about him but that's laughably daft.

[123EasyasBFC]

My main concern about Trafford is that if we go down Im not sure we'll be able to keep hold of him and we'll probably have to settle for our money back or only a small profit.

If we do sell him for a small profit in the summer it would be a great deal whilst still having muric

[alwaysaclaret]

There can't be an adult anywhere that really thinks when Trafford is facing a shot he is thinking how can I make this look good for the camera.

I get there is some real dross posted about him but that's laughably daft.

That's your opinion

[StayingDown4Ever]

My main concern about Trafford is that if we go down Im not sure we'll be able to keep hold of him and we'll probably have to settle for our money back or only a small profit.

whilst I appreciate your jest I would have been happy to see him leave last month for half of what we paid for him if it got him out the side stinking out the place.

[bumba]

If we do sell him for a small profit in the summer it would be a great deal whilst still having muric

I think it'd take some real convincing on VK's part to convince Muric to stay and be number 1 next season even if Trafford leaves. He'd be thinking that if we got promoted again he'd not be given a chance. His mind will already be made up to leave

[Darthlaw]

His mind will already be made up to leave

And yet no takers?

[bumba]

And yet no takers?

Who knows?
Maybe there were enquiries, maybe we quoted to high, maybe we refused so we didn't have the problem of finding another GK in January, maybe Muric wants to stay til the summer because it opens up more options.
None of us will ever know will we.

[LincsWoldsClaret]

Poor communication at corners, why didn't he organise the defence to get Fulham's number 4 away from him. That is HIS job

That is not HIS job
That role has been allocated to Vitinho- even though he is combative, he is not going to shift a hulking striker. In the end he just got in Traffords way.
Roberts was far better, he was the guard for Muric in the early part of last season until Muric got better at crosses.

Every team knows we mark zonally and mark badly - so we’re just going to continue to be weak at corners until the set piece coach gets replaced

[boatshed bill]

That is not HIS job
That role has been allocated to Vitinho- even though he is combative, he is not going to shift a hulking striker. In the end he just got in Traffords way.
Roberts was far better, he was the guard for Muric in the early part of last season until Muric got better at crosses.

Every team knows we mark zonally and mark badly - so we’re just going to continue to be weak at corners until the set piece coach gets replaced

And we give very cheap corners away.

[JBR]

At the end of the day both keepers right now are not good enough for the PL but we’d probably get away with their many shortcomings in the championship

Muric has not played one league game this season so how do you work that one out?

[JBR]

Who knows?
Maybe there were enquiries, maybe we quoted to high, maybe we refused so we didn't have the problem of finding another GK in January, maybe Muric wants to stay til the summer because it opens up more options.
None of us will ever know will we.

Settled in area getting paid to sit on his backside.


Why kick up a fuss when his understudy is taking all the flack from poor performances making him look even better on the bench. Clever move I would say. Can walk off into the sunset anytime or if Kompany sees sense back in the team as the no.1.

[bumba]

Settled in area getting paid to sit on his backside.


Why kick up a fuss when his understudy is taking all the flack from poor performances making him look even better on the bench. Clever move I would say. Can walk off into the sunset anytime or if Kompany sees sense back in the team as the no.1.

I'd love him back in but I can't see it happening, he will want to leave to keep his international place.

[JBR]

That is not HIS job
That role has been allocated to Vitinho- even though he is combative, he is not going to shift a hulking striker. In the end he just got in Traffords way.
Roberts was far better, he was the guard for Muric in the early part of last season until Muric got better at crosses.

Every team knows we mark zonally and mark badly - so we’re just going to continue to be weak at corners until the set piece coach gets replaced

His job is to punch, catch the ball, save shots from corners. He is not very good at that. First thing opposition do is look for weaknesses that is our glaring one.

Most times he cannot get to the ball as he doesn’t have the strength to do it.

[Vincent'sCap]

whilst I appreciate your jest I would have been happy to see him leave last month for half of what we paid for him if it got him out the side stinking out the place.

Stinking the place out eh?
A bit like you stink this place out.

[LincsWoldsClaret]

His job is to punch, catch the ball, save shots from corners. He is not very good at that. First thing opposition do is look for weaknesses that is our glaring one.

Most times he cannot get to the ball as he doesn’t have the strength to do it.

But then you look at the second half and the string of punches, catches and shot stopping that kept us in the game and realise that the glaring weakness is not that glaring after all

[JBR]

But then you look at the second half and the string of punches, catches and shot stopping that kept us in the game and realise that the glaring weakness is not that glaring after all

Letting in two goals a game IS a glaring weakness very much so.

[Stacks]

Many comments on here on how Trafford will improve after next year in the Championship. He will get bullied on set pieces even more. Way more physical. Like a little kid (palming) flapping in the wind. Can’t see him ever been good in the air.

[Darthlaw]

Can walk off into the sunset anytime

Apart from this window or in the summer, apparently. VK clearly saw the position as needing an upgrade early in the summer (hence why we went for Verbruggen) so you'd say Muric certainly has had the time to decide if he wants to move to get some first team games, or suitors deciding they wanted an upgrade to put in an offer.

Assuming anyone wanted him, of course.

[scamander]

Just to broaden this discussion out a bit. There have been lots of keepers making mistakes this season, in part due to the new style of play they are required to have. Ramsdale and Raya were getting criticised earlier this season. At the weekend Pickford was being heavily criticised for his kicking on the radio and Allison, well, he didn't do well either. Vicario was getting a lot of stick (again what I heard on the radio) for being pinned at corners and weak.

There's also the saga of Onana. Point being that though we might think that these criticisms of Trafford are unique it seems that they aren't. Plenty of other clubs have similar issues.

[beddie]

I think they’re both good keepers, the problem to me is the crap that’s been in front of them, or should I say in front of Trafford as Muric only plays cup games. If Trafford had Tarky and Mee in front of him we’d be raving about him. Compare
Al Dakhill - Ekdal - Beyer- O’Shea to the likes of Davies, McGreal, Sinclair, Cahill, Caldwell, Tarky, and Mee, to name only a few, the current defenders we have are simply not good enough.

[getbennyon]

Trafford is short in basic athleticism, he has no spring and no bounce.

The opposition all have him sussed on corners, he's bullied every game and it'll be the same again next season

I have no idea how his career will work out but do know he'll be the first player dropped when the next manager takes over.

[Quickenthetempo]

Don’t remember a 15 page thread on Muric last season.

That's because Darthlaw wasn't on a mission to defend every mistake Muric made.

[Cooclaret]

No player has that sort of agreement, other than some loans.

That’s why I don’t have any evidence. I think City sold him to us, free up some transfer cap space, and agreed that they’ll have him back when Ederson indicates he wants to move to Real Madrid.

Agreements don’t always have to be on paper

[Quickenthetempo]

https://twitter.com/historyinmemes/stat ... _yiPA&s=19
Darthlaw comforts Trafford after getting lobbed from the half way line again.

[JBR]

That’s why I don’t have any evidence. I think City sold him to us, free up some transfer cap space, and agreed that they’ll have him back when Ederson indicates he wants to move to Real Madrid.

Agreements don’t always have to be on paper

Going off the very sickly hugging with Pep there might be something in this. Dodging the finances most likely as usual.

[Nori1958]

That’s why I don’t have any evidence. I think City sold him to us, free up some transfer cap space, and agreed that they’ll have him back when Ederson indicates he wants to move to Real Madrid.

Agreements don’t always have to be on paper

I'd rather go with evidence and history