Looking at most of our signings from the summer, I can’t help but wonder how much focus we actually placed on the character of those players.

Under Dyche, it was well known that we profiled players backgrounds, their characters, personalities, and assessed how well they’d work with the group already at the club. It wouldn’t work every time, in the main though, it worked pretty damn well.

I do wonder whether we’ve focussed primarily on numbers and statistics when recruiting and with that we’ve lost our identity.

We don’t seem to have many characters, fighters, battlers, players that actually give a ****. Players that we can get behind because they get our club and leave everything out on the pitch

The turnover of players that we’ve seen, most of the old guard moving on (or consigned to the bench) it feels as though we’ve lost what we were about. Something that Kompany said he valued from Dyche’s era and wanted to ensure it remained.

Is it just because we are playing poorly and losing more than our fair share that I’m thinking this, or are we losing what we have been about for so long?

As my Brother said tonight, there aren’t many in this team that you can really get behind - oh for a Mee, Tarkowski, Barnes, Tella, Maatsen, a younger Cork.

Maatsen was Claret through and through.

Why do you think we signed so many attackers. Invest a lot in those and flip them for profit, that’s the ALK model the football is secondary.

We are absolutely lacking a captain - there wasn’t one out on the pitch tonight.

The thing is if they don't get the balance right - the attacking players look poor and they will ultimately lose their investment.

You're correct. There are no leaders in the team. Look what happens when we're under pressure or concede. Everyone is just looking at each other. Thought JBG might come to the forefront this season being most experienced but not happened.

Re.Sale.Value.

Hmm. I agree some of the new signing haven’t worked out but not sure about this argument. In terms of the character, you’d probably put Brownhill as the kind you’re alluding to, yet he was one of the worst players on the pitch tonight. I think things are just amplified because we’ve not being good enough and the manager is making some big errors both tactically and in terms of selection.

MDWat wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:40 am

We are absolutely lacking a captain - there wasn’t one out on the pitch tonight.

Interesting you think we lacked a captain tonight because I thought without brownhill tonight our performance off the ball would of been really bad

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:46 am

Hmm. I agree some of the new signing haven’t worked out but not sure about this argument. In terms of the character, you’d probably put Brownhill as the kind you’re alluding to, yet he was one of the worst players on the pitch tonight. I think things are just amplified because we’ve not being good enough and the manager is making some big errors both tactically and in terms of selection.

We mentioned Brownhill in the car on the way over - last season he was better, both as a player and seemingly as a leader. The thing is, real leaders are seen when the going gets tough. It’s been really tough this season and I don’t see a leader or much fight in this team.

This is what is making this season so painful to watch for me. Does anyone really think Luton had more talent on the pitch than us tonight? What they did have, and what they’ve had all season which is consequently why they are above us in the table is character, work-rate, desire, heart, fight… call it what you will. They’re a more unified team than us, they fight for everything, they play with intensity and leave everything on the pitch. They’re also set up to play to their strengths and do this far more effectively, but I guess that’s another argument.

I’d be more proud being a Luton fan right now. It’s easier to get behind more limited players who give their absolute all than a bunch of ‘talents’ who lack anything resembling character.

Such a shame how this side has deteriorated in the space of 6 months.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:56 am

This is what is making this season so painful to watch for me. Does anyone really think Luton had more talent on the pitch than us tonight? What they did have, and what they’ve had all season which is consequently why they are above us in the table is character, work-rate, desire, heart, fight… call it what you will. They’re a more unified team than us, they fight for everything, they play with intensity and leave everything on the pitch. They’re also set up to play to their strengths and do this far more effectively, but I guess that’s another argument.

I’d be more proud being a Luton fan right now. It’s easier to get behind more limited players who give their absolute all than a bunch of ‘talents’ who lack anything resembling character.

Such a shame how this side has deteriorated in the space of 6 months.

I'd give anything for half the Luton team.

They're clearly a better setup than us

A lot more goes into building a cohesive squad than signing players and chucking money at it.

All this was said in summer, we've all seen what happens when teams have a lot of change and lack continuity, but we did it anyway.

MDWat wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:40 am

We are absolutely lacking a captain - there wasn’t one out on the pitch tonight.

Ekdal.

Agree

DCWat wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:34 am

Looking at most of our signings from the summer, I can’t help but wonder how much focus we actually placed on the character of those players.

Under Dyche, it was well known that we profiled players backgrounds, their characters, personalities, and assessed how well they’d work with the group already at the club. It wouldn’t work every time, in the main though, it worked pretty damn well.

I do wonder whether we’ve focussed primarily on numbers and statistics when recruiting and with that we’ve lost our identity.

We don’t seem to have many characters, fighters, battlers, players that actually give a ****. Players that we can get behind because they get our club and leave everything out on the pitch

The turnover of players that we’ve seen, most of the old guard moving on (or consigned to the bench) it feels as though we’ve lost what we were about. Something that Kompany said he valued from Dyche’s era and wanted to ensure it remained.

Is it just because we are playing poorly and losing more than our fair share that I’m thinking this, or are we losing what we have been about for so long?

As my Brother said tonight, there aren’t many in this team that you can really get behind - oh for a Mee, Tarkowski, Barnes, Tella, Maatsen, a younger Cork.

Spot on there ,I posted months ago about who would you have in the trenches with you out of this lot (obviously got pelters for comparing it to a war even though folk new what I meant ) the only one who seems up for it is the guy that’s had to battle with his own demons and that’s Lyle Foster ,and Ekdal the rest would be in the medical core.

Agree - no connect at all now. The 'character' philosophy which served us so well has gone now and those players still here are hardly involved in games.

Dyche’s Burnley over valued substance over style.

This Burnley way over values style over substance….. but when people pay £90m for players like Anthony, sancho, Aubemayang etc…. You can see why it fits the business model.

I know all footballers at this level earn a lot and therefore have all sorts of personal assistants and agencies looking after them, and fair play. But this is the first time I've seen that sort of pampering and detachment on the pitch. Sometimes I genuinely think they'd rather be anywhere else than Turf Moor.

Watching Ben Mee for ninety minutes, you could imagine him doing a days hard graft alongside you. Some of the current crop, I'm not so sure you could trust them to tie their own shoelaces never mind put a tackle in.

The OP is spot on. We are in need of nous, game management, character and the ability to fight and see a game out and get the points we need. We can't hold on to 1 nil leads either. Sorry to hark back to Dyche, but I'm sure that game would have been won if he was in charge. No connect at all or cohesion between each of the sections of our team.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:07 am

Agree - no connect at all now. The 'character' philosophy which served us so well has gone now and those players still here are hardly involved in games.

Yeah like the regulars/semi-regulars Gudmundsson, Taylor, Brownhill, Rodriguez and Roberts. Hardly involved

Possibly my least fav ever Burnley side and that is saying something.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:07 am

Agree - no connect at all now. The 'character' philosophy which served us so well has gone now and those players still here are hardly involved in games.

You are absolutely spot on CT.

MDWat wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:40 am

We are absolutely lacking a captain - there wasn’t one out on the pitch tonight.

Its plain for everyone to see that no one is of captain material and no one is barking orders at players, trying to lift and motivate players. All you see are the pathetic high fives when Trafford makes a save. Surprising as VK was a serious captain for Man City

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:10 am

Its plain for everyone to see that no one is of captain material and no one is barking orders at players, trying to lift and motivate players. All you see are the pathetic high fives when Trafford makes a save. Surprising as VK was a serious captain for Man City

Sometimes makes me wonder what VK would have been like in a bang average Championship team.

We all know that character and leadership are vital for a relegation scrap. In not addressing this I can only think that VK thought we would have far too much quality to be anywhere near the bottom three...or that it genuinely wouldn't matter if we got relegated this season. Both scenarios are naive in the extreme would cost most managers their job. It has certainly condemned us to one of the most miserable seasons in recent memory.

It may well all work out OK in the end, and if it does I really hope he repays our patience and sees the job through. But VK has some work to do to restore the connection between the fans and this current crop of players, and I fear the rumoured plan to offload more of our championship winners is not going to help.

I doubt any signing will change the outcome of the season now, but if he can find players with genuine heart for the fight it will at least reassure us that he understands the problem.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:35 am

Maatsen was Claret through and through.

So through and through he rejected a €30m move in the summer to sit on their bench, then joined BVB in January.

He was a top lad but let’s not kid ourselves he was just here to support his development.

I'm not sure we are lacking in character , more quality.
The amount of times we lost the ball in transition was clear to see last night. The biggest culprit again is Amdouni who continually tries to be flashy when the ball comes to him, which it does regularly. These silly nutmegs and sharp turns he tries every time continually lose us possession.

Westleigh wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:14 am

Sometimes makes me wonder what VK would have been like in a bang average Championship team.

Why would you wonder about that ?
Do you wonder his how Messi would have been like in a championship team ?

What’s your point ?

MDWat wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:40 am

We are absolutely lacking a captain - there wasn’t one out on the pitch tonight.

That would have been Harwood Bellis' greatest asset.

Criminal we didn't do that deal.

It’s ridiculous to suggest VK and the recruitment team don’t do any research on the player’s character and background.

It’s a lot easier to check a player’s background if they have played at Stoke or Brighton until they are 30.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:28 am

So through and through he rejected a €30m move in the summer to sit on their bench, then joined BVB in January.

He was a top lad but let’s not kid ourselves he was just here to support his development.

There was a strong hint of sarcasm in my post which understandably got lost

helmclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:01 am

It’s ridiculous to suggest VK and the recruitment team don’t do any research on the player’s character and background.

It’s a lot easier to check a player’s background if they have played at Stoke or Brighton until they are 30.

Which in part was probably why a lot of our recruitment was players from in and around these shores. And it worked.

There wasn’t a suggestion that we don’t do any research on the player’s character and background but as you say yourself, it’s a lot easier to check a players background if they have played at Stoke or Brighton.

Perhaps (and a question as opposed to a statement of fact) we haven’t done as much of the background work as we have done historically. The evidence on the pitch suggests that might be the case.

Whatever it is, we’ve lost our soul.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:05 am

There was a strong hint of sarcasm in my post which understandably got lost

Yes, blatantly.

Whilst with us though, Maatsen was 100% committed and the sort of player that we as fans can get behind. That was the reason for his inclusion, not because he wanted to see if he could make his way in Chelsea’s first team, which was entirely his call.

I’m glad we’ve moved on from Dyche’s transfer mindset of only signing English/Irish lads who look like they’re forklift certified, but I think we’ve gone completely the other way too much and now only sign 22 year old show ponies

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:48 am

Interesting you think we lacked a captain tonight because I thought without brownhill tonight our performance off the ball would of been really bad

I think he gets some unfair criticism does Brownhill but I’d never pull him up on work rate, he’s a leader in that sense, you can’t blame him for not having the same quality as most other premier league CMs but he always gives it 100%

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:37 am

I think he gets some unfair criticism does Brownhill but I’d never pull him up on work rate, he’s a leader in that sense, you can’t blame him for not having the same quality as most other premier league CMs but he always gives it 100%

Does he? I’m not convinced he does. Everton home game stands out. Nor was I particularly impressed with his work rate last night.

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:37 am

I think he gets some unfair criticism does Brownhill but I’d never pull him up on work rate, he’s a leader in that sense, you can’t blame him for not having the same quality as most other premier league CMs but he always gives it 100%

Workrate in terms of ground covered I have no problem. Does he always show bravery to show for the ball in midfield? He certainly didn’t in the first half last night but seemed to come out with a rocket up his backside after half time presumably following some words.

Just reading Norwich boss Wagner heaping praise on "warrior" Ashley Barnes last night. They seem a different team when he is playing.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:49 am

Does he? I’m not convinced he does. Everton home game stands out. Nor was I particularly impressed with his work rate last night.

He’s good at free kicks ,not.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:07 am

Agree - no connect at all now. The 'character' philosophy which served us so well has gone now and those players still here are hardly involved in games.

It's hard to know what to think or feel about the club right now, but it seems to be a million miles from what the club is really about at its core.

As supporters, we are pinned on the one hand by a set of players, many of whom may as well be wearing For Sale on their back rather than their actual names. A number who look uninterested in being around other than - its the Premier League. On the other, a manager and a board who seem more interested in phrases like project and forever forwards whilst thinking relegation and 4pts at home all season in January is perfectly fine. Such a shame VAR stepped in yesterday to create another smokescreen.

After Fulham - and while that wasn't convincing - I had half convinced myself this was a turning point, now I can see this team is a million miles away from being able to get results at this level on a consistent basis.

Kompany was drawn into a comparison with Luton in his pre-match update and made the remark that Luton did not have to replace loan players. Well there's a bit more to it than that, isn't there Vincent? The treatment bordering on disdain for the players who actually got us here is starting to feel pretty distasteful.

Overall I just feel antipathy right now. Which may be short hand for saying - I'm on the turn.

This side has no bottle whatsoever. Stan would sack them all.

GDK wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:01 pm

Just reading Norwich boss Wagner heaping praise on "warrior" Ashley Barnes last night. They seem a different team when he is playing.

You’ll get ridiculed for that I suggested we missed him,and the usual suspects sarcastically came out with names that had obviously retired years ago ,I blind man on galloping horse can see that keeping him another 12 months would have at least give us some steel in the team ,but it’s a cunning plan ,Get promoted ,put the youngsters on show ,go down get them cherry picked,rinse and repeat.

Westleigh wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:57 pm

You’ll get ridiculed for that I suggested we missed him,and the usual suspects sarcastically came out with names that had obviously retired years ago ,I blind man on galloping horse can see that keeping him another 12 months would have at least give us some steel in the team ,but it’s a cunning plan ,Get promoted ,put the youngsters on show ,go down get them cherry picked,rinse and repeat.

Hmmm. The trouble is they won't make very much profit there because they haven't shown nearly enough. It's backfired a bit really.

All this talk of character though is pretty fair. Whilst I've always though the outrage at some of the stuff like LED's etc a bit over the top (it's just not the game it was any more) there is a bit of style over substance in everything about the club now. Like all the big build up stuff and the individual players pointing at screens a d stuff - that's all well and good when you have the content and results to back it up. Sutfing so far behind with so few points ts and looking a bit of a shambles for most of the season just makes all that embarrassing.

Last season with 101 points and opposition managers saying that we were a very good side we had reason to be optimistic of PL survival. Sadly we have been fielding a side that is weaker than last season. One would expect that promotion leads to an improved squad but with the promotion team largely kept intact. The destruction of that very together team and the expensive recruitment probably had more to do with the selling of these new signings on at a profit in subsequent years. This has been a disastrous season and the fans have been let down.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:05 am

There was a strong hint of sarcasm in my post which understandably got lost

Sorry, whooosh for me

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:07 am

Agree - no connect at all now. The 'character' philosophy which served us so well has gone now and those players still here are hardly involved in games.

Nor should they be. That is not the problem

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:28 am

So through and through he rejected a €30m move in the summer to sit on their bench, then joined BVB in January.

He was a top lad but let’s not kid ourselves he was just here to support his development.

It's widely recognized the outright figure wouldn't be anywhere near the £30m so it's not that that he rejected he would have had to jump through so many hoops for that max figure to be realized. Offering £30m unconditionally would have probably ensured he left Stamford bridge.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:28 pm

Nor should they be. That is not the problem

At least add some reasoning behind your dismissive reply.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:34 pm

It's widely recognized the outright figure wouldn't be anywhere near the £30m so it's not that that he rejected he would have had to jump through so many hoops for that max figure to be realized. Offering £30m unconditionally would have probably ensured he left Stamford bridge.

Chelsea accepted our offer, whatever it was. Maatsen didn’t want to leave - had nothing to do with the fee.