It’s easy to select the latter option being a Burnley supporter but for me it’s All three.

Having seen the incident back this morning it simply can’t be a goal. Yet it is awarded!!

Travelling back to Lincolnshire after every match gives you time to calm down and reflect. Like VK you go through the other incidents and count up the points. Without any doubt it stands at 5 due to pure VAR errors. Not only points we have not got but its points our relegation rivals would not have. Our own poor play another 5!

Where would 10 extra points place us??? 22 points and we would be well on the way to safety.

I have no answer, no solution just extreme frustration and anger. It’s easy to say the championship is a better league but let’s be honest we all want BFC secure in the premier league.

Well apart from the rest of the country and the Premier league!!!

VAR is woeful for everyone.

And we deserve to be where we are, regardless.

We’ve definitely been on the wrong side of several ‘game defining’ decisions this season. Two of them have come against ‘relegation rivals’ like you say. People say ‘yeah but it happens to everyone’ - I’ve watched Luton closely this season and can’t recall a single dodgy decision that has lost them points. In fact the opposite, they got a dodgy pen vs Wolves at home which won a point, their striker Brown should have had a straight red the other week (maybe v Arsenal) and yesterday they have a clear error in their favour. They say these things even themselves out over a season but the damage could already be done here. 6 points now from clear ref and VAR errors, 18 points from 21 would not look so bad right now.

There’s no corruption, let’s try not to sounds like scousers

When we get relegated it’s all down to the choice of signing we made in the summer, they’re certainly not poor players, just not what we needed.
You need to start with strength and steel, then start trying to mould a team with some skill and pace, our approach was far too naive. Borderline arrogant tbh

Whatever it is, I'm still absolutely fuming this morning! Must have woken up 5 or 6 times in the night thinking about that bloody goal! Another weekend ruiner.

I disagree, some of the VAR decisions in other matches not including Burnley smack of corruption.

The timing of some decisions and the fact that they are clearly incorrect point at nothing else.

I love football not just Burnley and the interpretations applied by the VAR guys is bizarre to say the least.

I am 100% not going to put our probable relegation down to VAR. i completely agree our signing strategy, style of play, substitutions etc etc have been awful at best.

It’s not corruption and especially not in a Burnley vs Luton game.
There’s big team bias in games
Last night was just an example of rules being changed so much and referees not knowing what the rules are and just being out their depth, unfortunately VAR has cost us 6 points but really in the games it’s cost us in the balance if the games it’s probably only the forest game we deserved to win

I just think the operation of VAR has become so convoluted that it’s simply not fit for purpose.

We have also dropped 18 points from leading positions this season. The game management has been woeful. No steel backbone that was once our hallmark.

Analysis of betting patterns at Villa may be an interesting read The non penalty and a 3-2 win would have made some serious money
Clearly there is bias in VAR but the main problem is the incompetent refs selected to run it
Most like Super Jonny Moss were shite refs yet get the very lucrative gig on VAR.

Give it a rest FFS. Trafford was bullied and looked like a little boy for their goal. He should have done better.

What’s it matter about VAR ? The referee never gave the foul end of story if it happens in championship we still loose a goal,forget Var it’s having a **** referee that cost us.

Agreed but in this instance VAR should have cleaned up the ****!!

It's ineptitude. The refs are crap, VAR is crap.

From my perspective I ask if that goal would have stood at Anfield, Old Trafford, The Emirates etc?? Injury time equaliser when a forward has deliberately blocked off the keeper. The ref would have blown for a foul on the keeper immediately and got on with the game. That's what we're up against. No corruption, it's just that we are seen as expendable and without sufficient influence to cause a major stink.

VAR must be objective - it is actually subjective and prone to sundry spurious decisions. Might be better if we have four linesman (one each for the attacking and defensive team) who have more (or any) input to decisions. And/or two referees on the pitch?
Failing that, AI should be used ( though I’m sure this would still be questionable at times)!

VAR feels like Match Fixing and has done since day 1

VAR is crap, I absolutely detest it.

That being said, just like last time, we’re not going down because of it - we’re going down because we’re not good enough.

They're not intelligent enough for it to be corruption, if they were, their weekly mistakes wouldn't be so obvious.

It's quite simply the standards of referees is atrocious.
I don't think anyone would have any long standing issues with refs if they simply made a single mistake, maybe a couple of times a season, with their one view of an incident.
But the mere fact that a large team of officials with the benefit of multiple angles, slow mo and zoom still come to the wrong decision time after time beggars belief.

All Three

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:39 am

There’s no corruption, let’s try not to sounds like scousers

When we get relegated it’s all down to the choice of signing we made in the summer, they’re certainly not poor players, just not what we needed.
You need to start with strength and steel, then start trying to mould a team with some skill and pace, our approach was far too naive. Borderline arrogant tbh

I agree with this.

VAR: it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, unless the referee was unsighted. He clearly asks his linesman for help then awards the goal.

Trafford wasn’t off the ground when contact is made, if he was, that’s a foul.

The Luton player does back into him, does create a foul, but Trafford wasn’t in a position to get the ball.

The OP makes some valid points. I have no idea if some decisions are down to corruption but it really wouldn't surprise me. We are talking about a multi billion pound business. There is the possibility that some of these owners will do anything to keep their league status and keep the millions rolling in. They only need to get at one official either through bribery or blackmail to influence decisions that affect their team.

According to a poster on another thread the same VAR official was on the Villa game and the game last night making 2 decisions that cost us 3 points. Those decisions not only benefitted Villa and Luton but also Everton and Forest. And we all know that Everton are cheats and that the Forest owner marches into referee's dressing rooms when things aren't going his way.

My thoughts are that hopefully it is ineptitude but please don't be naive to think that with the amount of money involved corruption is a very distinct possibility.

Even Rob Edwards looked uneasy after the game and tactfully said it was harsh and down to opinions. Sadly its not just us, as we seem to have had more than our share of decisions against us. By the time MOTD is shown tonight there will be at least another two debatable poor decisions from todays games.

We have no control on VAR, but we can get better at taking our chances.What a shame JBG missed that sitter in the opening minutes. If that foul on Trafford had happened but we had won 2-1 it would probably not have made this message board

It is hard to understand what kind of corruption people think would rely on Luton scoring an injury time equaliser that should be disallowed.

Ineptitude. The standard of refereeing is so poor, whether it’s the official wheezing their way around the pitch, or up and down the touchline, or sat in front of a monitor at Stockley Park gorging themselves on cheesy puffs, they’re just incompetent.

We have definitely been on the wrong end of some shockers this season, but as have many others. I thought the principle of VAR would be a good thing, but what is the point if it’s the same talentless ass-clowns watching the replays? Just stick to on-field refereeing, you can at least stomach mistakes made in the split second moment.

Corruption - they’re not clever enough
Ineptitude- 100%
Anti Burnley - there may possibly be a hint of that depending on the officials involved

Whether they are getting more decisions right or not, VAR is destroying the experience. Decisions taking ages to be made while every bit of minutiae is over-analysed. You can’t celebrate goals, even the obvious ones, because there is always the fear that VAR spots a minor technical infringement that happed 30 seconds earlier. It’s just spoiling the whole experience. The game is about entertainment and VAR is killing that aspect. At least if a ref gets it wrong in real time you can put it down to having to make a split second decision. When VAR takes ages and still gets it wrong, it really is infuriating. As for the goal, I thought Trafford made the wrong decision and was weak, while we also allowed Morris to get a free header, but it was still a foul in my view.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:54 am

It is hard to understand what kind of corruption people think would rely on Luton scoring an injury time equaliser that should be disallowed.

Just look at all the sponsors of football at the highest level and I bet you can guess

It's not corruption - both Man Utd and Liverpool have had goals ruled out against us that could easily have been given were there an agenda of big club vs small club.
Quoon has it right, mainly - it's a lack of understanding leading to inconsistency. No professional footballer or regular football viewer would consider Berge to have deliberately handled it, or that Trafford wasn't fouled, or that Krul and Onana didn't punch players in the head, or that Calvert Lewin is a red card but Jacob Brown isn't and so on. It only seems like corruption because we only really care about Burnley so it stings more.

Lack of consistency is what winds me up so I guess that's ineptitude.

I can't get on board with "anti-Burnley"; why would they favour Luton over us?

I'm not sure about corruption as it's a fairly broad term. I'd certainly say that decisions tend to favour the big clubs though.

Ineptitude - absolutely. In a game where any slight contact followed by a fall is a penalty, how can the foul on Trafford be allowed?

I do wonder if the ref was influenced by getting a bit miffed by some of Trafford's time-wasting antics but if he did, that is **** refereein and VAR should have corrected it.

Rick_Muller wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:47 am

Just look at all the sponsors of football at the highest level and I bet you can guess

Can you spell it out for me please?

I can't and won't believe anyone thinks that a big bookie was in the referee's ear saying we'd like Luton to equalise but if they don't put it in the net then don't do anything about it. And the whole PGMOL is on board with that.

It's down to a lack of character, a lack of backbone and to moral cowardice.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:54 am

It is hard to understand what kind of corruption people think would rely on Luton scoring an injury time equaliser that should be disallowed.

It's a great story for the Premier League brand if plucky little Luton manage to stay up against all the odds this season, especially after losing their captain.

The same way it's a great story if Aston Villa push the usual suspects all the way in the title race this year. Maybe they could do a Leicester?

Ineptitude and a lack of understanding of the game they officiate. Whether we go down because we're not good enough is irrelevant, everyone can accept that if it's the case. But we've now been cheated out of at least 5, potentially 6 points, this season and they matter.

Football is ruined at this level now, it's no longer a sport when the outcome of a match is directly influenced by some fuckeit sat in an office hundreds of miles away who doesn't have any understanding of the game.

Absolutely no worries about being relegated now, purely as we' be away from this farce. It is only going to get worse. There can't be any match-going football fan who actually supports VAR anymore.

Sproggy wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:38 pm

It's a great story for the Premier League brand if plucky little Luton manage to stay up against all the odds this season, especially after losing their captain.

The same way it's a great story if Aston Villa push the usual suspects all the way in the title race this year. Maybe they could do a Leicester?

Or perhaps it could be some people's imagination running away with itself creating the stories. By & large teams are placed where they are on merit alone, you are where you are for a good reason & usually it amounts to the combination of not scoring enough & conceding too many.

Cooclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:49 am

VAR: it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, unless the referee was unsighted. He clearly asks his linesman for help then awards the goal.

Trafford wasn’t off the ground when contact is made, if he was, that’s a foul.

The Luton player does back into him, does create a foul, but Trafford wasn’t in a position to get the ball.

I think you're wrong on all three points, unfortunately.

1. Whether the decision is correct or not does not depend on what he was looking at.

2. The laws say nothing about contact with a man on the ground being legal in circumstances where it is illegal if he is in the air.

3. A foul is a foul regardless of the ref's opinion as to who is going to get the ball.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:34 pm

I think you're wrong on all three points, unfortunately.

1. Whether the decision is correct or not does not depend on what he was looking at.

2. The laws say nothing about contact with a man on the ground being legal in circumstances where it is illegal if he is in the air.

3. A foul is a foul regardless of the ref's opinion as to who is going to get the ball.

A) it does if VAR think it is a ‘clear and obvious error’. They weren’t judging a foul or no foul. The referee and linesman say it, made a judgement and there wasn't enough to overturn it.

B) and C) it doesn’t you’re right, but Trafford was no where near the ball to effect an intervention. He was grounded, therefore he isn’t considered.

Ineptitude. Simple as that. Inept officials and a tragic VAR. Unfortunately, we've been on the wrong end of debatable decisions.

I don't think there's any corruption as it actually helps the PL brand when smaller clubs do well. When we finished 7th the PL would have been able to use us as an example that it's not so much a closed shop when a smaller club does well. Leicester winning the league would have helped them from a promotional point of view in that respect.

They'll know that gravity will naturally weed out the smaller clubs like us anyway over time (like it eventually did with Leicester & Southampton, and will for Brighton & Brentford in future).

So there's no need to "fix" things as the bigger clubs will always win in the end.

Ineptitude, we've just seen the ref at Newcastle v City not book Dan Burn for a blatant professional foul and yet 4 minutes later he books Rodri for it. This batch of refs are for the most part either incredibly bad at their job or are **** scared of making decision because of VAR. Scrap it or completely changed how it's used because there is no upside to it at all at the moment.

claretlegend wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:43 am

Whatever it is, I'm still absolutely fuming this morning! Must have woken up 5 or 6 times in the night thinking about that bloody goal! Another weekend ruiner.

Don't want to be rude be cmon. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your life priorities. It is after all a game. You shouldn't be loosing sleep over something you cannot control.
Take it easy

I do believe there's corruption in the Prem. Money talks big time, big brands bring in the money from worldwide viewership leading to TV rights revenue, merchandise, et cetera. And certain clubs are deemed big brands or bigger potential brands. City clubs naturally. The PL leadership would absolutely prefer to ditch Burnley, Luton, probably Bournemouth despite being southern coast, and possible one or two of the 'lesser' London sides like Brentford, for a Leeds to get that 'historic brand', a Bristol City to get a Southwest city base in the Prem, and an Ipswich or Norwich to provide an east coast city club. Naturally Leicester back in the fold too.

Absolutely think one day there'll be major corruption uncovered, it happened multiple times in Serie A which was worth far, far less money. This is a league with all kinds of morally and ethically questionable owners from all over the place propping sides up, the idea they'd suddenly be all above board and play by the rules because of football is naive.

That said don't think that's behind yesterday's decision, because Luton are a smaller brand than we are by far. Also because the decision itself is a proper 50-50, Trafford's exceptionally weak in everything he does, Adebayo turns his back to him but DOESN"T look at him (whatever Kompany says) and is static at the point of impact, it's Trafford going into him not the reverse. If that's at the other end I'm fuming if it's disallowed. It's one where yeah, a big side, City, United, etc. they get the benefit either way- if it's their keeper it's a foul, their striker it's not. When it's us vs Luton it's a case where it really depends how that ref interprets it as it could go either way under current rules, and VAR's not going to overturn a margin call whatever. If he gives a foul, VAR agrees no goal. If he waves it away, VAR agrees goal stands.

So personalising things here but, Do I travel 4-5 hours each way to watch a lightweight team try hard but ultimately not be good enough or worse stuffed by another crap VAR decision, or pop down to my local league one club and watch an honest (mostly) collection of journeymen footballers
scrambling around for 90+minutes trying to win games of football. Much prefer the latter option these days sadly. Technology and TV is destroying top level football for me.

I think all 3 thread title options apply at various times in the Premier League!

When VAR was first introduced I feared that it would create a huge opportunity to fix matches…I didn’t actually realise how easy and obvious it would be though

My post from This Season Has made me more angry thread, ad it applies here too. Corruption or company policy, to enhance the brand, wherever possible?
.............

My thought has been, for a number of years, that the prem league is designed to produce the best product to ensure its revenues steadily grow.

This requires the biggest 'best known worldwide' teams to retain their dominance. That is sorted. It also requires a degree of competition throughout. 20 teams is hard. I can see less in the future.

They like the odd team to capture the imagination. Leicester - prime example - which demonstrates anyone can win. In reality, they can't. No one will dissuade me from the belief that Leicester got all those pens, to ensure they won or didn't lose. Hardy regularly tripping himself up and getting the pen.

Aston Villa is that team, this season. Another Midlands team doing well. They get the breaks and against us, for sure.

Size matters. The bigger the city and its ground, the more welcome.

I am convinced these ingredients assist decision making.

Burnley is not welcome. 80000 is nothing. Plenty of big cities in our midst.

Bristol is the need for the prem. The South West needs to be in the Prem. Some way off.

We have experienced sufficient VAR or ref decisions, this season, to know that we are unwelcome. If they can ensure our departure, it will be done - for the improvement of the prem model.

Sad.

Up the Clarets.

Ineptitude

Question for those who believe that all referees in the PL are corrupt. How does this happen? Are all refs at all levels corrupt, even the ones getting paid a packet of smarties per game? Or do they have a way to weed out the honest men before they get too high?

One thing is certain. No ref has ever gone public with a statement that the authorities tell him who must win. Either there isn't an honest man in the bunch, or the authorities are extraordinarily good at picking crooks.

Or I'll put it another way. Any suspicion that referees en bloc are corrupt, is foolish.

claretlegend wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:43 am

Whatever it is, I'm still absolutely fuming this morning! Must have woken up 5 or 6 times in the night thinking about that bloody goal! Another weekend ruiner.

Haha, me as well. Quite literally couldn’t sleep last night for rage.

My wife is convinced it’s corrupt and the PL want us out. I see the other **** decisions they give against other teams and just think it’s ineptitude.

Let’s face it, we are where we are because of our own poor quality. JBG bags last night and we win. He doesn’t and we’re all left discussing VAR bs.

But we would almost certainly be right within touching distance had we been given correct VAR decisions and it is at least in part responsible for us being relegated so early in the season.

I’d love to see the club take a public stance, issue a statement, call out the specific instances that have cost us this year and call for it’s abolishment because it’s clearly no longer fit for purpose and is ruining the game. 2 minute delays for a decision are not football and I think it’s making refs/lino’s lazy - giving the safest decisions know it will be checked instead of the hard calls.

I can handle a ref in real time getting the wrong call but not the ref and VAR.