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Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:33 pm
by northeastclaret
Dermot and the two pundits all see it as a foul and no goal In exactly the same way VK described it.
You try to get over it but today’s Ref watch brings the sickening injustice back to light.
Disgrace disgrace disgrace Harrington , Banks and the PGMOL, or whatever the incompetent organisation call themselves.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:36 pm
by bumba
Gallagher also said it's split the public's opinion down the middle which shows how subjective it is and that's the reason VAR goes with the on field decision
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:39 pm
by Ric_C
Kind of thinking that Trafford's constant flopping to the floor and timewasting may have influenced the refs decision at the time.
I do think it was a blatant foul btw
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:39 pm
by Wokingclaret
bumba wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:36 pm
Gallagher also said it's split the public's opinion down the middle which shows how subjective it is and that's the reason VAR goes with the on field decision
Still madness
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:44 pm
by Rowls
Ric_C wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:39 pm
Kind of thinking that Trafford's constant flopping to the floor and timewasting may have influenced the refs decision at the time.
I do think it was a blatant foul btw
Agreed. Said this on the rate the ref thread.
We'd only know the truth of this if the ref admitted to it but it's a good fit for the events as they happened. This is why we need referees of character and integrity.
People who have the backbone to actually apply the rules of the law for time wasting and the specific rule of how long a referee can hold the ball won't need to resort to what is effectively cheating in allowing a goal that everybody knows should not have been allowed to stand.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:56 pm
by Vegas Claret
IFAB rule 12
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:58 pm
by ClaretOfMancunia
I feel like if Trafford hadn't thrown himself to the floor and actually made more of an attempt to get to the ball it might have gone our way. Should have done regardless like, but he didn't help his (our) cause with the blatant flop.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:39 pm
by quoonbeatz
Ric_C wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:39 pm
Kind of thinking that Trafford's constant flopping to the floor and timewasting may have influenced the refs decision at the time.
I do think it was a blatant foul btw
Even more reason to kick said ref out of football if he's letting stuff like that cloud his judgement. If he thinks Trafford is timewasting, he should book him. He has the tools to deal with it.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:53 pm
by Goody1975
ClaretOfMancunia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:58 pm
I feel like if Trafford hadn't thrown himself to the floor and actually made more of an attempt to get to the ball it might have gone our way. Should have done regardless like, but he didn't help his (our) cause with the blatant flop.
With one view of the incident that would have some credence but that is the reason VAR was brought in, to correct errors and give a definitive decision.
It's a foul in the laws of the game. Therefore a clear and obvious error.
Bankes should be nowhere near VAR again.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:14 pm
by dougcollins
bumba wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:36 pm
Gallagher also said it's split the public's opinion down the middle which shows how subjective it is and that's the reason VAR goes with the on field decision
According to the BBC poll it's split 65/35 in favour of a foul.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:31 pm
by Goody1975
dougcollins wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:14 pm
According to the BBC poll it's split 65/35 in favour of a foul.
and every week a sub who plays 30 seconds wins the 'BBC fans' man of the match.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:54 pm
by northeastclaret
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:53 pm
With one view of the incident that would have some credence but that is the reason VAR was brought in, to correct errors and give a definitive decision.
It's a foul in the laws of the game. Therefore a clear and obvious error.
Bankes should be nowhere near VAR again.
It was Bankes who was on VAR at Villa as well. The hand ball
not being given annoyed me even more than than the penalty.
It would appear that he is working on the premise that if the on field referee gives a decision, I don’t want to over rule him, although they are clear and obvious errors when viewed from certain angles.
This is totally unexplainable incompetence, where he seems to be working off a different agenda , which is one of the reasons why VAR is so shocking and ruining the game.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:56 pm
by northeastclaret
dougcollins wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:14 pm
According to the BBC poll it's split 65/35 in favour of a foul.
And I bet 25% of the 35% were Luton fans.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:57 pm
by dougcollins
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:31 pm
and every week a sub who plays 30 seconds wins the 'BBC fans' man of the match.
Yeah, that's a known and deliberate act, people take as much notice of that as they do Garth Crooks.
The polls usually have a good numeric turnout and are indicative.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:59 pm
by dougcollins
northeastclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:56 pm
And I bet 25% of the 35% were Luton fans.
You probably meant 75%, but I know what you mean.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:59 pm
by Carport
Could the on field referee have decided on Friday to ignore what we were told by the stadium screen to be VAR’s decision - no foul? Could he have demanded to view the monitor if he so wished before going against VARs decision? Does anyone know?
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:00 pm
by jdrobbo
Rowls wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:44 pm
Agreed. Said this on the rate the ref thread.
We'd only know the truth of this if the ref admitted to it but it's a good fit for the events as they happened. This is why we need referees of character and integrity.
People who have the backbone to actually apply the rules of the law for time wasting and the specific rule of how long a referee can hold the ball won't need to resort to what is effectively cheating in allowing a goal that everybody knows should not have been allowed to stand.
And this is why I think we should be asking for the audio. I want to know exactly what the referee said during that incident.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:20 pm
by Rowls
jdrobbo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:00 pm
And this is why I think we should be asking for the audio. I want to know exactly what the referee said during that incident.
Agreed.
But actually, we shouldn't be asking for the audio - it should be being broadcast in realtime.
Cowardice is the reason this isn't done. Schoolchildren understand the principle of justice being open and transparent.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:21 pm
by Rowls
northeastclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:54 pm
It was Bankes who was on VAR at Villa as well. The hand ball
not being given annoyed me even more than than the penalty.
It would appear that he is working on the premise that if the on field referee gives a decision, I don’t want to over rule him, although they are clear and obvious errors when viewed from certain angles.
This is totally
unexplainable incompetence, where he seems to be working off a different agenda , which is one of the reasons why VAR is so shocking and ruining the game.
Sorry, I know this is very picky but the word is "inexplicable". Arrrrgrgggghhhhhh.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:11 pm
by claretandy
bumba wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:36 pm
Gallagher also said it's split the public's opinion down the middle which shows how subjective it is and that's the reason VAR goes with the on field decision
This is what I hate about var, from the refs POV it might not have looked like a foul, but from the different angles it does, what's the point in having so many camera angles if you're not going to use them?
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:20 pm
by Rileybobs
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:56 pm
IFAB rule 12
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
It’s clear that officials aren’t following the laws of the game. I can understand on-field officials missing incidents but there really is no excuse for a supposedly top level official sat in an office watching multiple angles on tv, with unlimited time, to not apply the laws of the game.
You would assume that Premier League officials know the laws of the game like the back of their hand - but perhaps they should actually be referring to the actual wording whilst they’re determining decisions. If you are watching this incident on a screen with the law that you posted displayed on another screen it would be impossible to reach the conclusion that the goal should stand.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:21 pm
by bfcjg
It's cheating, how do we know he or a crony didn't have a bet on? Nothing surprises me anymore , sickening decision.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:29 pm
by NewClaret
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:56 pm
IFAB rule 12
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
How any VAR official - who should know these off by heart - can read that law and give
I think we’ll get an apology from PGMOL on this one. It’s the most blatant, deliberate, run and block (taking the man and nowhere near the ball) that I’ve ever seen.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:59 pm
by northeastclaret
NewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:29 pm
How any VAR official - who should know these off by heart - can read that law and give
I think we’ll get an apology from PGMOL on this one. It’s the most blatant, deliberate, run and block (taking the man and nowhere near the ball) that I’ve ever seen.
Didn’t PGMOL actually say on Friday evening that it was just ‘a coming together’ or were they referring to what Harrington and Bankes were up to later that night?
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:09 pm
by bumba
claretandy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:11 pm
This is what I hate about var, from the refs POV it might not have looked like a foul, but from the different angles it does, what's the point in having so many camera angles if you're not going to use them?
Because even from all different angles some people think foul some people think no foul therefore VAR has to go with the on field decision
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:11 pm
by CrosspoolClarets
We can’t spend years moaning we didn’t get fouls because our players didn’t throw themselves to the floor, then moan again when they do. It was a foul, and one of the worst ref and VAR non decisions I have ever seen (and a very low bar). Harrington and Bankes were totally incompetent. That is all there is to it.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:20 pm
by levraiclaret
Rowls wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:21 pm
Sorry, I know this is very picky but the word is "inexplicable". Arrrrgrgggghhhhhh.
Polesworth Grammar School has a lot to answer for!
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:23 pm
by claretandy
bumba wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:09 pm
Because even from all different angles some people think foul some people think no foul therefore VAR has to go with the on field decision
But the on field referee hasn't seen all angles.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:26 pm
by Rowls
levraiclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:20 pm
Polesworth Grammar School has a lot to answer for!
Comprehensively.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:29 pm
by RammyClaret61
claretandy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:23 pm
But the on field referee hasn't seen all angles.
Correct, we go with the refs best guess, from one angle. Even If that one angle suggests it might not be a foul, but 4 other angles suggest it is a foul, therefore an error. But no, we go with our mate.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:13 pm
by bumba
claretandy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:23 pm
But the on field referee hasn't seen all angles.
I don't like VAR but if your going to call it out at least understand how it works, they communicate with the referee and he tells them what he's seen. Only if the evidence suggest something's happened that he doesn't describe would they intervene.
If he's described the incident and motion by Adebayo as they've seen from several angles and he's saying he doesn't believe it's a foul they can't say he's made an error to review
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:44 pm
by Burnley87
With the stage and importance of that moment the ref should have been told to go to the screen and take a look. If he still stuck with that decision then fair enough and I think most would accept that . I do think Trafford was weak however
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:20 pm
by beddie
Var agreed with his decision, however, var have the opportunity before agreeing with him to look at all the angles, certainly one of those angles imo looks like an assault (my view only) on Trafford. I don’t understand why var didn’t say to the ref there’s one angle you need to see. A coming together is just not correct.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:22 pm
by Wokingclaret
northeastclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:59 pm
Didn’t PGMOL actually say on Friday evening that it was just ‘a coming together’ or were they referring to what Harrington and Bankes were up to later that night?
And very quickly, meaning they knew it'll be an issue.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:26 pm
by distortiondave
It really matters not a jot how weak or strong one of our players was in that moment, just like it doesn't matter if Luton were better than us, or deserved a draw, or we deserved to lose, or we got what we deserved because we signed Mike Tresor in August, or because we have American owners or or or or....you'd have to be a person in utter contempt of either BFC, Kompany, Pace or Trafford to see that as anything other than a foul in modern day, top flight football.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:26 pm
by Wokingclaret
I always think Keepers are too protected, not this time.
Always remember Akinbiyi scored a goal at the CFS end, he blew a number of players away and the keeper to score the most fantastic goal you will ever see. shear power
Of course the ref blew...........argh
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:31 pm
by ClaretTony
Carport wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:59 pm
Could the on field referee have decided on Friday to ignore what we were told by the stadium screen to be VAR’s decision - no foul? Could he have demanded to view the monitor if he so wished before going against VARs decision? Does anyone know?
Why would he do that? The on field referee said it wasn’t a foul and then VAR agreed with him.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:38 pm
by distortiondave
Wokingclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:26 pm
I always think Keepers are too protected, not this time.
Always remember Akinbiyi scored a goal at the CFS end, he blew a number of players away and the keeper to score the most fantastic goal you will ever see. shear power
Of course the ref blew...........argh
Are you thinking of the goal against Leicester?
I think we lost 0-1 in the end to a John McGreal OG, but I might be conflating memories.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:46 pm
by Wokingclaret
Can't remember who it was against
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:36 pm
by THEWELLERNUT70
Also mentioned on Ref Watch was the opinion of Shay Given ( goalkeeper) who thought it was keeper error and not a free kick
Just for balance of course
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:48 pm
by THEWELLERNUT70
And just for balance too here is Danny Murphy's rant because he couldn't believe a foul wasn't given
https://fb.watch/pBvqmcz21C/
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:55 am
by RammyClaret61
THEWELLERNUT70 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:36 pm
Also mentioned on Ref Watch was the opinion of Shay Given ( goalkeeper) who thought it was keeper error and not a free kick
Just for balance of course
Also mentioned by Danny Murphy, if that had happened to Shay Given, he’d be the first demanding a foul.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:39 am
by claretandy
bumba wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:13 pm
I don't like VAR but if your going to call it out at least understand how it works, they communicate with the referee and he tells them what he's seen. Only if the evidence suggest something's happened that he doesn't describe would they intervene.
If he's described the incident and motion by Adebayo as they've seen from several angles and he's saying he doesn't believe it's a foul they can't say he's made an error to review
Unless we get the audio I don't believe this happened.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:57 am
by bumba
claretandy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:39 am
Unless we get the audio I don't believe this happened.
New episode on this week I'd be amazed if it wasn't covered. All he has to do is describe what he saw but say he doesn't believe it's a foul
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:38 am
by Rammy1968
I live in Great Harwood and the consensus even from the Horsebotherers is 100% foul and no goal, so saying it splits opinion is Bullocks. I will quote this from a Fulham fan on twitter “Regardless of whether the goalie was in no man’s land or not the Luton player body checks him and makes no attempt to play the ball. It is a foul, not because it’s a keeper but because it’s a foul”
The Premiership don’t want the likes of Burnley and Luton in this league and are **** scared of losing Everton or NF the result they wanted was a draw which does naff all for either team.
The league is corrupt and VAR and its use has highlighted it even more so now. (Villa, Bournemouth and NF)
The game is ruined in my eyes.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:52 am
by beddie
bumba wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:57 am
New episode on this week I'd be amazed if it wasn't covered. All he has to do is describe what he saw but say he doesn't believe it's a foul
Anyone know what day/ channel and time it’s on? Thanks in advance.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:12 am
by CrosspoolClarets
We have just had VAR atrocities twice on the trot, costing us potentially 5 points, by Peter Bankes, who is either an Everton fan or a local because he has never reffed a Merseyside game. I know he is from Merseyside. Rob Jones, who was in charge of the atrocity at Forest, is also a Merseysider who has never reffed Everton.
We then had Stuart Atwell, the Luton fan, who did not apply the rules correctly when sending off Berge, then got the penalty wrong too. Atwell who also reffed us at home vs Palace when we didn’t get penalty shouts. This is Atwell who gave the “ghost goal” for Reading against Luton’s hated rivals Watford.
We have David Coote, from Nottingham, who was VAR at Bournemouth when they took 5 minutes to find Jay offside then denied us that penalty at the death.
Pawson is a Sheff Utd fan. I can’t recall any problems with him as it was VAR Oliver who sent off Zaroury.
I’m not suggesting corruption because there is no evidence, but there is a trend, and subconscious bias will come into play, the stats all point in that direction with most of our bad decisions coming from refs who are loyal to our relegation rivals. Especially with the VAR official who is unseen and unheard, most of our problems have come from him (e.g. vs Luton I can just about forgive Harrington missing the reversing backside, but not VAR).
Our club should be much more forceful in demanding certain refs do not take charge of games against us, as other clubs do (Liverpool and Tierney). Webb should also go further to ensure fair play - including publishing audio of all big decisions. I bet ours is NOT shown on his show on Sky.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:20 am
by Rick_Muller
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:12 am
We have just had VAR atrocities twice on the trot, costing us potentially 5 points, by Peter Bankes, who is either an Everton fan or a local because he has never reffed a Merseyside game. I know he is from Merseyside. Rob Jones, who was in charge of the atrocity at Forest, is also a Merseysider who has never reffed Everton.
We then had Stuart Atwell, the Luton fan, who did not apply the rules correctly when sending off Berge, then got the penalty wrong too. Atwell who also reffed us at home vs Palace when we didn’t get penalty shouts. This is Atwell who gave the “ghost goal” for Reading against Luton’s hated rivals Watford.
We have David Coote, from Nottingham, who was VAR at Bournemouth when they took 5 minutes to find Jay offside then denied us that penalty at the death.
Pawson is a Sheff Utd fan. I can’t recall any problems with him as it was VAR Oliver who sent off Zaroury.
I’m not suggesting corruption because there is no evidence, but there is a trend, and subconscious bias will come into play, the stats all point in that direction with most of our bad decisions coming from refs who are loyal to our relegation rivals. Especially with the VAR official who is unseen and unheard, most of our problems have come from him (e.g. vs Luton I can just about forgive Harrington missing the reversing backside, but not VAR).
Our club should be much more forceful in demanding certain refs do not take charge of games against us, as other clubs do (Liverpool and Tierney). Webb should also go further to ensure fair play - including publishing audio of all big decisions. I bet ours is NOT shown on his show on Sky.
Excellent summary of my thoughts too. Unconscious bias is certainly coming into play with this. The list of issues above combined with the abject fear of upsetting a big club or manager in the media would also come into play, which ref wants media scrutiny for upsetting Klopp for example - and we have seen the fall out from one like that this season if memory serves.
We can all see it happening, but if VK goes on a rant about a specific incident (lets say the most recent one) and requests the audio you can guarantee that Sky Sports will have a ticker across the bottom for half a day until the next big incident pops up. It wont be the weeks of analysing each and every press conference from all managers for an opinion on why Liverpool have been hard done by like what happened when Klopp did that.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:17 pm
by Tall Paul
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:12 am
We have just had VAR atrocities twice on the trot, costing us potentially 5 points, by Peter Bankes, who is either an Everton fan or a local because he has never reffed a Merseyside game. I know he is from Merseyside. Rob Jones, who was in charge of the atrocity at Forest, is also a Merseysider who has never reffed Everton.
We then had Stuart Atwell, the Luton fan, who did not apply the rules correctly when sending off Berge, then got the penalty wrong too. Atwell who also reffed us at home vs Palace when we didn’t get penalty shouts. This is Atwell who gave the “ghost goal” for Reading against Luton’s hated rivals Watford.
We have David Coote, from Nottingham, who was VAR at Bournemouth when they took 5 minutes to find Jay offside then denied us that penalty at the death.
Pawson is a Sheff Utd fan. I can’t recall any problems with him as it was VAR Oliver who sent off Zaroury.
I’m not suggesting corruption because there is no evidence, but there is a trend, and subconscious bias will come into play, the stats all point in that direction with most of our bad decisions coming from refs who are loyal to our relegation rivals. Especially with the VAR official who is unseen and unheard, most of our problems have come from him (e.g. vs Luton I can just about forgive Harrington missing the reversing backside, but not VAR).
Our club should be much more forceful in demanding certain refs do not take charge of games against us, as other clubs do (Liverpool and Tierney). Webb should also go further to ensure fair play - including publishing audio of all big decisions. I bet ours is NOT shown on his show on Sky.
Peter Bankes is a Liverpool fan.
Re: Ref watch on Sky
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:23 pm
by Nori1958
Tall Paul wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:17 pm
Peter Bankes is a Liverpool fan.
Rob Jones is Derby fan
