• Cullen and Muric back in for Saturday?

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:41 am**

Is it time to give last years players more of a chance.

Cullen looked better in the cup games and Muric deserved to start the season anyway.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:48 am**

Unless there's injury or suspension to Trafford, we won't see Muric in a Burnley shirt again

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:50 am**

Not sure it would we wise to play them against a great pressing team.
They would be under far too much pressure.

It's not the game to go back to the passing out from the back.

Fulham would have been the one.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:13 am**

I'd like both back in but he's not going to bring either back unless he's forced to through injury etc.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:13 am**

Its all well and good for us to say we should change it all around but if we do that then we go back to square one in February, still experimenting.

I think he just has to go with that second half line up from now on as much as he can, with the odd change here and there ie Taylor back in at full back.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:16 am**

Cullen and Muric in? - no
Esteve, Fofana and Taylor in? - yes

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:18 am**

I think he’s too stubborn to bring Muric back in.

I’m not sure Cullen is up to it in the PL and would need to need two others close to him in the middle for it to work. Maybe in a 4141 or 451 with him holding.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:23 am**

Cullen definitely in a midfield 3. Muric just not going to happen. A lot worse goals conceded by better teams than us this weekend. Trafford is fine. The team more than ever picks itself for me, lets hope VK thinks the same

Trafford
Assignon O Shea Beyer Esteve
Brownhill Berge Cullen
Odobert Fofana Foster

If Beyer not fit then Ekdal. Amdouini on bench and Bege play that more advanced role (he is not a defender)

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:27 am**

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:48 am
Unless there's injury or suspension to Trafford, we won't see Muric in a Burnley shirt again

I wouldn’t be so sure on that. A sticky start next season and VK may well be out and the new manager might prefer Muric over Trafford.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:31 am**

Shaggy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:27 am
I wouldn’t be so sure on that. A sticky start next season and VK may well be out and the new manager might prefer Muric over Trafford.

Muric won’t be here next season. He’s too good to be a bench warmer and to bright to sit around praying for your outcome.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:32 am**

Shaggy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:27 am
I wouldn’t be so sure on that. A sticky start next season and VK may well be out and the new manager might prefer Muric over Trafford.

Iam not sure Muric would stay as number 2 in the championship

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:48 am**

In reply to the OP.. it just won't happen. VK is dying on the Trafford hill and we won't know whether Muric was good enough to step up. Well as long as there are no injuries/suspensions and even then he would probably play Amdouni in the net to shoe-horn him into the team.

As for Cullen, he could play the deep role Berge is doing to help get Berge picking up the ball and making things happen further up the pitch.

The only spanner in the works is the new lads, otherwise I genuinely believe we would see pretty much the same line up until the end of the season.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:12 pm**

helmclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:18 am
I think he’s too stubborn to bring Muric back in.
I’m not sure Cullen is up to it in the PL and would need to need two others close to him in the middle for it to work. Maybe in a 4141 or 451 with him holding.

More chance of seeing Benson start

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:18 pm**

Nori1958 wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:32 am
Iam not sure Muric would stay as number 2 in the championship

I don’t think we’ll see Muric again, but perhaps Trafford might fancy his chances in the PL again next season, with one of the promoted teams maybe?

I wouldn’t be averse to selling him if that were the case and we could make a decent profit.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:18 pm**

If Trafford scored 3 own goals against Liverpool he’ll still be back in for the following match. It would take an in injury to see Muric. Probably likely to see Amdouni and Ramsey in sone capacity too although they offer diddly squat for me along with Tresor. We need fight but we have plenty of weakness.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:19 pm**

There's one thing for certain. If we try and play Liverpool and Arsenal without 3 proper central midfielders we'll get thumped.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:25 pm**

There is more chance of being struck by lightning than this happening.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:27 pm**

summitclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:19 pm
There's one thing for certain. If we try and play Liverpool and Arsenal without 3 proper central midfielders we'll get thumped.

Doesn't matter how we play them, we'll get thumped anyway

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:30 pm**

burnleymik wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:48 am
In reply to the OP.. it just won't happen. VK is dying on the Trafford hill and we won't know whether Muric was good enough to step up. Well as long as there are no injuries/suspensions and even then he would probably play Amdouni in the net to shoe-horn him into the team.

As for Cullen, he could play the deep role Berge is doing to help get Berge picking up the ball and making things happen further up the pitch.

The only spanner in the works is the new lads, otherwise I genuinely believe we would see pretty much the same line up until the end of the season.

VK is dying on more than a Trafford hill. The ineffectual Amdouni and Ramsay are firmly dug in on this hill.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:34 pm**

VK hasnt fancied Muric for the PL since June so not sure why he'd start now.

Fofana, Gudmunsson and Esteve should be in, for me at the expense of Amdouni, Ramsey and Ekdal respectively.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:43 pm**

We should definitely not look at changing too many of the regular starters this season who have brought us 3 wins by February.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:30 pm**

Nori1958 wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:32 am
Iam not sure Muric would stay as number 2 in the championship

Doesn't this underprice the possibility that Trafford is one of the most saleable assets on relegation, should we need to realise revenue?

I think that overall this season Trafford has done OK, even if his weaknesses are ones that mean he probably wasn't the ideal signing for us last summer, and has certainly done enough to confirm his long term potential (just as Ramsdale did when Bournemouth went down and again when Sheffield United went down). That probably makes him one of the more convincing candidates for a resale at a profit this summer, particularly given we have Muric who has already demonstrated his capability in the league below.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:32 pm**

I would go with bringing in the sub that made the difference vs Fulham rather than changing people other positions. Fofana, JBG & Esteve in for Amdouni, Ramsey & Ekdal respectively.

Argument to bring Cullen in for Brownhill maybe, but given we will not have much possession in this match, I think Brownhill's energy & engine gets him the nod over Cullen.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:04 pm**

VK still doesn’t know his best team or his best formation and that for me is our major problem

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:12 pm**

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:23 am
Cullen definitely in a midfield 3. Muric just not going to happen. A lot worse goals conceded by better teams than us this weekend. Trafford is fine. The team more than ever picks itself for me, lets hope VK thinks the same

Trafford
Assignon O Shea Beyer Esteve
Brownhill Berge Cullen
Odobert Fofana Foster

If Beyer not fit then Ekdal. Amdouini on bench and Bege play that more advanced role (he is not a defender)

No team featuring Cullen in the PL has picked itself. Other than that, looks good.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:42 pm**

Jamesy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:30 pm
VK is dying on more than a Trafford hill. The ineffectual Amdouni and Ramsay are firmly dug in on this hill.

Ramsey has started 3 games this season. I wouldn't say that counts as "firmly dug in".

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:51 pm**

claretspice wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:30 pm
Doesn't this underprice the possibility that Trafford is one of the most saleable assets on relegation, should we need to realise revenue?

I think that overall this season Trafford has done OK, even if his weaknesses are ones that mean he probably wasn't the ideal signing for us last summer, and has certainly done enough to confirm his long term potential (just as Ramsdale did when Bournemouth went down and again when Sheffield United went down). That probably makes him one of the more convincing candidates for a resale at a profit this summer, particularly given we have Muric who has already demonstrated his capability in the league below.

Assuming Muric wants to stay.

I’m not sure I would in his position.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:57 pm**

I'm also not entirely convinced about Trafford's marketability for a resale at profit.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:02 pm**

Enola Gay wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:51 pm
Assuming Muric wants to stay.

I’m not sure I would in his position.

Agree, Muric must be fed up. He should have started the season and if he had made the mistakes Trafford had, he would be out the team.

That 17 million / resale value is hindering us big style.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:26 pm**

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:57 pm
I'm also not entirely convinced about Trafford's marketability for a resale at profit.

Young English keeper, very composed on the ball, ranking around mid-table vs other PL keepers by advanced shot stopping data metrics like PsxG. Got all the makings for marketability in my opinion. Think he’ll stay anyhow.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:27 pm**

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:02 pm
Agree, Muric must be fed up. He should have started the season and if he had made the mistakes Trafford had, he would be out the team.

That 17 million / resale value is hindering us big style.

13.7m

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:43 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:27 pm
13.7m

Still a lot of money from somebody who was in league 1. Not many make the jump within 12 months of them levels

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:49 pm**

The one thing that Trafford has got going for him is confidence, I haven't seen his head drop once, despite several mistakes. Plenty of decent keepers fold once theyve made a mistake.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:53 pm**

claretspice wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:30 pm
Doesn't this underprice the possibility that Trafford is one of the most saleable assets on relegation, should we need to realise revenue?

I think that overall this season Trafford has done OK, even if his weaknesses are ones that mean he probably wasn't the ideal signing for us last summer, and has certainly done enough to confirm his long term potential (just as Ramsdale did when Bournemouth went down and again when Sheffield United went down). That probably makes him one of the more convincing candidates for a resale at a profit this summer, particularly given we have Muric who has already demonstrated his capability in the league below.

Trafford, saleable asset? Just because we paid around £19 million for him, doesn't mean anyone else would be daft enough. We'd be lucky to get £5 million if he continues his current form until the end of the season.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:57 pm**

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:53 pm
Trafford, saleable asset? Just because we paid around £19 million for him, doesn't mean anyone else would be daft enough. We'd be lucky to get £5 million if he continues his current form until the end of the season.

People like you are hilarious. Not only you blatantly ignore the fact we have not paid £19m for him, as has literally just been pointed out, you then ignore claretspices exact point that Ramsdale got relegated twice and Arsenal still paid £24m rising to £30m for him. No guarantees here but saying we’d be lucky to get £5m is laughable and borderline clueless.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:10 pm**

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:53 pm
Trafford, saleable asset? Just because we paid around £19 million for him, doesn't mean anyone else would be daft enough. We'd be lucky to get £5 million if he continues his current form until the end of the season.

Correct. It was completely unnecessary spend. There was no need to drop Muric who made us tick. It is proving go be a terrible piece of business and now VK is stubbornly pressing on with him even though it has disturbed our options and slickness we had on playing out. Not to mention Trafford being far from ready, he is a decent shot stopper but presence in the area is poor and now we have no tempo and variance as a unit when playing out.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:17 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:57 pm
People like you are hilarious. Not only you blatantly ignore the fact we have not paid £19m for him, as has literally just been pointed out, you then ignore claretspices exact point that Ramsdale got relegated twice and Arsenal still paid £24m rising to £30m for him. No guarantees here but saying we’d be lucky to get £5m is laughable and borderline clueless.

I think we paid circa 16 million for him if you look at the reputable Transfer market sites? Whilst I agree with you that £5m is laughable, I think we would struggle to get anywhere near our outlay on him if he was sold.
I respect Spices posts but again he mentions Trafford’s potential. We seem to be referring to potential a lot now when we debate most of Vincent’s signings.
Sadly, potential alone won’t keep us in the Premier League.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:30 pm**

Trafford will be with us for the next two or three years at least (like Ramsay), probably best to see what he’s worth then I’d guess rather than speculate now for something that’s not going to happen.

Cullen would have to be in a three for me and Trafford will be picked in goal as he has for every league game this year.

Hoping Taylor will be fit and hoping we go 5 at back for the next two games like we reverted to against city. Looked
Solid (and wouldn’t play Esteve at lb if Taylor still isn’t back).

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:32 pm**

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:41 am
Is it time to give last years players more of a chance.

Cullen looked better in the cup games and Muric deserved to start the season anyway.

Not a prayer!!!
Some posters never give in do they.
Muric wouldn't get in if Trafford was on crutches
Get over it ffs

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:38 pm**

What we haven't had at all is a settled team, and just changing personnel game in, game out patently hasn't worked.

Pick a team and stick to it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:43 pm**

dougcollins wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:38 pm
What we haven't had at all is a settled team, and just changing personnel game in, game out patently hasn't worked.

Pick a team and stick to it.

He pretty much has done from game 8 -10 ish which has brought better performances and results generally (gd has slowed remarkably since poor start).

Nothing he could do but change when there’s injuries/suspensions to cover or new (better?) players to fit in.

Shows that he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t as he’s apparently stubborn to change yet over-tinkers at the same time.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:43 pm**

Jamesy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:17 pm
I think we paid circa 16 million for him if you look at the reputable Transfer market sites? Whilst I agree with you that £5m is laughable, I think we would struggle to get anywhere near our outlay on him if he was sold.
I respect Spices posts but again he mentions Trafford’s potential. We seem to be referring to potential a lot now when we debate most of Vincent’s signings.
Sadly, potential alone won’t keep us in the Premier League.

Different point. Was Trafford the keeper we needed last summer? Not sure he was. Is he someone that, because of his obvious potential, we might be able to make money on this summer? The history of the likes of Ramsdale suggests the answer might be yes, not least because after a very shaky start, he's generally done pretty well in the last 3 months and has been one of our better performers (not a high bar).

I take Enola Gay's point that Muric might want out because this season hasn't panned out as he hoped. However, if he's kicked up a fuss and been agitating for a move, he's done it very quietly because we might have expected him to look for a move in January.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:36 pm**

While I wouldn't go as far as being on full display in Burtons shop window, I still think we'll struggle to resell at a profit, certainly based on current form. I get the Ramsdale comparison in that he's young and English, but he won their player of the year award at Sheffield United due to a number of stand out displays, despite their relegation. Could you say the same about Trafford? I'm not so sure. Ramsdale also had previous top flight experience at Bournemouth (where he also won player of the year).

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:04 pm**

claretspice wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:43 pm
I take Enola Gay's point that Muric might want out because this season hasn't panned out as he hoped. However, if he's kicked up a fuss and been agitating for a move, he's done it very quietly because we might have expected him to look for a move in January.

He could have been perfectly happy to stay until the end of this season knowing that an injury or suspension will get him back in, especially with Vigouroux and Franchi both gone.

Come the summer though the dynamic is completely different. If Trafford stays (or leaves and gets replaced by another shiny new toy) the prospect of a season on the bench in the Championship probably won't appeal as much. And even if Trafford goes and Kompany tells Muric he's the Number 1 again, will someone whose been screwed over once want to risk that happening again?

Honest opinion, barring the aforementioned injuries or suspensions I think he's played his last competitive game for Burnley.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:22 pm**

and the Trafford Hate Squad take over another thread

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:52 pm**

LincsWoldsClaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:22 pm
and the Trafford Hate Squad take over another thread

It’s been a perfectly reasonable debate so far, try joining it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:20 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:57 pm
People like you are hilarious. Not only you blatantly ignore the fact we have not paid £19m for him, as has literally just been pointed out, you then ignore claretspices exact point that Ramsdale got relegated twice and Arsenal still paid £24m rising to £30m for him. No guarantees here but saying we’d be lucky to get £5m is laughable and borderline clueless.
[/quote

Whatever we paid for him was far too much and the post after yours agreed with me. OK £5 million might be a bit harsh but I doubt we will get our money back if Trafford leaves at the end of this season.

As for Ramsdale, his was a totally different situation as he wasn't at fault for goals in every other game like Trafford is.

You might not realise, but this forum is for different people to post varying views. Just because mine is different to yours, doesn't make me wrong.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:26 pm**

LincsWoldsClaret wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:22 pm
and the Trafford Hate Squad take over another thread

I don't think anyone, and certainly not me, hates Trafford. He's a young player probably trying his best. The trouble is he's just not good enough and possibly never will be.

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:28 pm**

More chance Lord Lucan in goals this weekend than seeing Muric not on the bench ..

Posted: **Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:40 pm**

James Trafford really is a divisive topic on this board.

We seem to have a number of people on this board who want to go completely overboard with their criticism of him. Comments like at fault for goals in every other game or literally fabricating things to try and blame him for recent goals conceded and single him out rather than other members of the team (or the manager) have all been way over the top this season.

I don’t know of many posters who are saying he has had a brilliant season or that he was worth every penny of his big fee so I’m not really sure why it has become such a divisive topic on this board.

Even many of those who are defending Trafford also feel that Muric should have been given a chance.

A balanced view is that Trafford is improving this season, he’s kept us in a few games but that his inexperience and lack of command and strength in the area has meant that teams have targeted this and it’s cost us (though this has to be in the context of how weak, poor and small the rest of our team has been). I also think a lot of people can see that Muric distributes the ball quicker and more accurately than Trafford and that Trafford’s hesitation and weight of pass has cost us problems and goals.

I don’t see this kind of hatred for the likes of Amdouni and a few other players who have had shocking seasons and cost similar amounts of money.

Cullen and Muric back in for Saturday?

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