Just scored for Hull against Soton.

He will be our main man next season in the Championship, hopefully.

Manager has no faith in him after one good season. Why should we owe faith to our ruthless manager after one good season ?

Hit the crossbar first game as well didn't he?

Proper talent that lad, two footed, good crosser of the ball; sincerely hope his Burnley career isn't over.

Had been receiving some criticism from the Hull fans, hope he can get things going now.

I’d read he’d been a bit hit and miss but probably just needs some games under his belt.
Really like the lad, hope he cracks on until the end of the season and gets a good move if VK has no intension of using him

Best winger we've had in many a year.Total madness by VK in loaning him out.

I'd be after a permanent move if I was him.
If your boss treated you that way in any other job you'd be away first chance you got.

I can understand Cullen being discarded because he had a good run of games at the start of the season and didn't look up to the job.

But Zaroury just hasn't had the same opportunity to prove his worth at this level.
Benson the same obviously but he's been the subject of a lot more discussion than Zaroury already.

…and they’re off..

It's hard to see how VK can go back to the likes of Zaroury and Benson next season.

Gotta to be good for us if Anass fires, got all the ability but at times looks like intensity startles him. Certainly doesn’t appear to have the demeanour for a relegation battle, but hopefully I am wrong.

One of the reasons I would have played (to a degree) Zaroury, Benson and Muric is they have heard all the praise so the rollockings this season will be in context, whereas for some of the newer players rollockings is all they have heard since they moved to England.

Fans haven’t taken to tresor due to his effort (tracking back) and ability to put a strong challenge in but are crying out for benson and zaroury they are signed on why put them in the shop window if we are going down let them get the game time and be better and stronger for us next year

Neil wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:19 pm

I'd be after a permanent move if I was him.
If your boss treated you that way in any other job you'd be away first chance you got.

I can understand Cullen being discarded because he had a good run of games at the start of the season and didn't look up to the job.

But Zaroury just hasn't had the same opportunity to prove his worth at this level.
Benson the same obviously but he's been the subject of a lot more discussion than Zaroury already.

It’s really disappointing that Zaroury hasn’t really featured this season and I agree with the gist of your post. But I don’t agree when people claim that players haven’t had an opportunity to prove themselves at this level. That players train day in day out, 90% of their job is away from matchday. Kompany sees them on a daily basis, he sees their attitude, their fitness and stamina, their ability and their growth/improvement.

It’s obvious that from what Kompany has seen he doesn’t think Zaroury is ready to play at this level. For all we know he may not be meeting the targets set of him.

Obviously this is very frustrating because we’ve seen players come into the side and also perform well below the levels we require. But I just disagree with the idea that the only opportunity players get to prove themselves is in matches.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:44 pm

It’s really disappointing that Zaroury hasn’t really featured this season and I agree with the gist of your post. But I don’t agree when people claim that players haven’t had an opportunity to prove themselves at this level. That players train day in day out, 90% of their job is away from matchday. Kompany sees them on a daily basis, he sees their attitude, their fitness and stamina, their ability and their growth/improvement.

It’s obvious that from what Kompany has seen he doesn’t think Zaroury is ready to play at this level. For all we know he may not be meeting the targets set of him.

Obviously this is very frustrating because we’ve seen players come into the side and also perform well below the levels we require. But I just disagree with the idea that the only opportunity players get to prove themselves is in matches.

He did feature at Bournemouth and couldn’t be arsed .

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:44 pm

It’s really disappointing that Zaroury hasn’t really featured this season and I agree with the gist of your post. But I don’t agree when people claim that players haven’t had an opportunity to prove themselves at this level. That players train day in day out, 90% of their job is away from matchday. Kompany sees them on a daily basis, he sees their attitude, their fitness and stamina, their ability and their growth/improvement.

It’s obvious that from what Kompany has seen he doesn’t think Zaroury is ready to play at this level. For all we know he may not be meeting the targets set of him.

Obviously this is very frustrating because we’ve seen players come into the side and also perform well below the levels we require. But I just disagree with the idea that the only opportunity players get to prove themselves is in matches.

Yes I understand and take your point.

But if we were sitting 3 points above the drop zone and at least in the battle, it would hold more water.

Surely we're past the nothing to lose stage already? And even if Benson and Zaroury and both lazy so and so's but can come on and turn a game in our favour, who would care?

Neil wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:50 pm

Yes I understand and take your point.

But if we were sitting 3 points above the drop zone and at least in the battle, it would hold more water.

Surely we're past the nothing to lose stage already? And even if Benson and Zaroury and both lazy so and so's but can come on and turn a game in our favour, who would care?

But we don’t actually know if they can come on and turn a game in our favour against this level of opposition. We know Odobert can create chances and score goals, but he’s still a passenger for the majority of each match.

I would have loved nothing more than to see Zaroury and Benson tear up the Premier League and I wish they had been given more of a chance. But at the same time I expect Kompany has got good reason. And loyalty to a player shouldn’t really come into the equation where team selection is concerned.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:22 pm

…and they’re off..

Fueled by 13 points from a possible 75 and sponsored by a sense of realism

Just seen the goal

Very similar to the goal he scored against Blackburn

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:44 pm

It’s really disappointing that Zaroury hasn’t really featured this season and I agree with the gist of your post. But I don’t agree when people claim that players haven’t had an opportunity to prove themselves at this level. That players train day in day out, 90% of their job is away from matchday. Kompany sees them on a daily basis, he sees their attitude, their fitness and stamina, their ability and their growth/improvement.

It’s obvious that from what Kompany has seen he doesn’t think Zaroury is ready to play at this level. For all we know he may not be meeting the targets set of him.

Obviously this is very frustrating because we’ve seen players come into the side and also perform well below the levels we require. But I just disagree with the idea that the only opportunity players get to prove themselves is in matches.

I think there's a bit more to it than this, in all honesty.

& football management is definitely not top trumps.

On Zaroury - showed some of his quality at Spurs away playing more central; has something different than the other wingers.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 pm

I think there's a bit more to it than this, in all honesty.

& football management is definitely not top trumps.

On Zaroury - showed some of his quality at Spurs away playing more central; has something different than the other wingers.

He does, although he lacks the pace of Odobert and Koleosho and it’s clear that this is an important attribute to Kompany.

There’s been some bonkers decisions made this season, and loaning Zaroury out may be one of them. But my main point was disputing that he has not been given a chance to prove he is up to this level, because he has, as he works under Kompany’s supervision on a daily basis.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:57 pm

But we don’t actually know if they can come on and turn a game in our favour against this level of opposition. We know Odobert can create chances and score goals, but he’s still a passenger for the majority of each match.

I would have loved nothing more than to see Zaroury and Benson tear up the Premier League and I wish they had been given more of a chance. But at the same time I expect Kompany has got good reason. And loyalty to a player shouldn’t really come into the equation where team selection is concerned.

And we never will know which is really my point.

As I said, I get what you say about attitudes and abilities in training but I'd be very surprised if Tresor trained like Mbappe or Ramsey applied himself like James Milner.

If loyalty shouldn't come into it, he appears to be showing it to this summers signings?

Neil wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:09 pm

And we never will know which is really my point.

As I said, I get what you say about attitudes and abilities in training but I'd be very surprised if Tresor trained like Mbappe or Ramsey applied himself like James Milner.

If loyalty shouldn't come into it, he appears to be showing it to this summers signings?

Well Tresor seems to have fallen out of favour after a few unsatisfactory performances. And I’ve personally not seen a lack of application from Ramsey. Definitely an inability to impact a game but that’s another matter.

I don’t really think he’s shown loyalty to this summer’s signings, the team has been chopped and changed on a weekly basis. Amdouni and Trafford are the shoo-ins whose place could be questioned, but I don’t think Kompany is sticking with either of them out of loyalty.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:16 pm

Well Tresor seems to have fallen out of favour after a few unsatisfactory performances. And I’ve personally not seen a lack of application from Ramsey. Definitely an inability to impact a game but that’s another matter.

I don’t really think he’s shown loyalty to this summer’s signings, the team has been chopped and changed on a weekly basis. Amdouni and Trafford are the shoo-ins whose place could be questioned, but I don’t think Kompany is sticking with either of them out of loyalty.

I sort of meant that some of these players must train like world cup winners but it certainly doesn't translate to match days and last seasons wingers must be a hell of a way off them in training which seems quite unlikely.

Anyway it's all subjective mate as I doubt we'll ever find out.

Sure we'd all love VK to hold a q&a night down the local

Neil wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:09 pm

And we never will know which is really my point.

As I said, I get what you say about attitudes and abilities in training but I'd be very surprised if Tresor trained like Mbappe or Ramsey applied himself like James Milner.

If loyalty shouldn't come into it, he appears to be showing it to this summers signings?

Some summer signings though have been given less time than others. Tresor, whose name you raised, has only had 400 minutes, about half of that out of position. Hardly time to adapt, and hardly favouritism. Loads of players for the big clubs do little in their first 500 minutes then come good.

I don’t think when a player signs comes into it, he has given some 2022/23 players decent chances (Cullen, Al Dakhil, Beyer) but I agree he hasn’t given chances to others which implies it is based on training.

Ultimately though, if we have 1 win in 23 against the 2022/23 PL teams, whatever choices he has made are likely to be wrong. I’m behind him, but these team selections and formations aren’t ones I agree with in all instances.

He’s 21 and still developing. A good loan is best all round, he needs games.

Still 4 years on his contract (I think) and still very much our player.

Hope he keeps banging them in.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:26 pm

Some summer signings though have been given less time than others. Tresor, whose name you raised, has only had 400 minutes, about half of that out of position. Hardly time to adapt, and hardly favouritism. Loads of players for the big clubs do little in their first 500 minutes then come good.

I don’t think when a player signs comes into it, he has given some 2022/23 players decent chances (Cullen, Al Dakhil, Beyer) but I agree he hasn’t given chances to others which implies it is based on training.

Ultimately though, if we have 1 win in 23 against the 2022/23 PL teams, whatever choices he has made are likely to be wrong. I’m behind him, but these team selections and formations aren’t ones I agree with in all instances.

To be totally honest Crosspool, I don't have massively strong views on this point as I see both arguments.

But I would stand by the point on last seasons players not getting as much of a chance.

Defence is a bit different. I'm sure Beyer was expected to excel making the step up and would have been a guaranteed starter anyway. Al Dakhil does not look the part (in my opinion) and has only really got game time due to injuries. Cullen I mentioned in my first post.

It's more our attacking options, hence posting on Zaroury thread.

I'm not writing Tresor off but his lack of effort has been widely recognised. You say 400 minutes, how does that compare to Benson and Zaroury?

You don't need the benefit of hindsight to realise signing all those wide players was at best, er stupid.
But that's a different argument.

I can see him developing into more of a central position with his passing ability.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:08 pm

He does, although he lacks the pace of Odobert and Koleosho and it’s clear that this is an important attribute to Kompany.

There’s been some bonkers decisions made this season, and loaning Zaroury out may be one of them. But my main point was disputing that he has not been given a chance to prove he is up to this level, because he has, as he works under Kompany’s supervision on a daily basis.

Yeah my point is that I don't think what VK did this summer is good for squad harmony and is poor man management.

I can only imagine the feeling after getting promoted and playing really well in your first season in England then seeing 5 or so predominantly left hand sided wingers/attacking mids signing. Surely you build the lads up?

The counter to that of course is well they're pro and have to be up for competition - which I understand, but for me it's about getting the collective right first and I think this is where VK has been very naive, again it's not amassing any and every footballer you can and seeing what sticks, surely? Any silly arse can do that.

I definitely think have prioritised potential ROI and 'wants' rather than 'needs' and it's bitten us in the arse. Convinced having more continuity and a few key additions would have us sitting a hell of a lot prettier than we are right now.

Anyway, good luck to Anass.

There is zero evidence that Benson and Zaroury have not put the effort in or haven't been good enough in training.

Its a bit out of order to suggest this to be honest.

And Kompany has started players after barely training with the team - but not lads who have a year with the club under their belts.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:43 pm

Yeah my point is that I don't think what VK did this summer is good for squad harmony and is poor man management.

I can only imagine the feeling after getting promoted and playing really well in your first season in England then seeing 5 or so predominantly left hand sided wingers/attacking mids signing. Surely you build the lads up?

The counter to that of course is well they're pro and have to be up for competition - which I understand, but for me it's about getting the collective right first and I think this is where VK has been very naive, again it's not amassing any and every footballer you can and seeing what sticks, surely? Any silly arse can do that.

I definitely think have prioritised potential ROI and 'wants' rather than 'needs' and it's bitten us in the arse. Convinced having more continuity and a few key additions would have us sitting a hell of a lot prettier than we are right now.

Anyway, good luck to Anass.

Yes agree with your first paragraph, and for all we know the way that existing players have reacted to new signings could have played a part in some of the subsequent selections. This would be partly on Kompany but also on the players in question - we have no idea if this is the case regardless.

Zaroury may well have felt unjustly left out of the opener against City but was brought on in the second half and didn’t do himself any favours by getting sent off and subsequently missing games through suspension. It’s quite possible that there was some fallout (not a falling out) around this whole scenario. Again this is just complete speculation but just a demonstration that these players have approx 4 days per week aside from match days to prove themselves to the coaches and management team so it’s not true to say they haven’t had a chance.

That said, I agree with your general view of our transfer business and overall strategy since winning promotion and it’s hard to imagine a harmonious squad.

forzagranata wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:48 pm

There is zero evidence that Benson and Zaroury have not put the effort in or haven't been good enough in training.

Its a bit out of order to suggest this to be honest.

And Kompany has started players after barely training with the team - but not lads who have a year with the club under their belts.

I don’t think anyone has suggested that Benson and Zaroury haven’t put effort in or haven’t been good enough in training. Just that certain performance levels will be expected of all players throughout the week and we aren’t privy to this.

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:36 pm

He’s 21 and still developing. A good loan is best all round, he needs games.

Still 4 years on his contract (I think) and still very much our player.

Hope he keeps banging them in.

24 this year

There's no substitute for game time-thats how players grow. Take a look at O'Shea-I was not on my own who thought he was a liability after 4-5 games. Despite the still occasional glitch, he is becoming our best defender. Problem with our squad is too big, and at times its hard for some players to even make the bench

Do people not think that VK wanted them all to rip up the Prem this season?

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:31 pm

There's no substitute for game time-thats how players grow. Take a look at O'Shea-I was not on my own who thought he was a liability after 4-5 games. Despite the still occasional glitch, he is becoming our best defender. Problem with our squad is too big, and at times its hard for some players to even make the bench

I keep reading this but im not sure its true. Hes just the only one thats been able to have a consistent run at it. Im not convinced that most of the other options couldnt at least match his performances if theyd had similar game time.

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:32 pm

Do people not think that VK wanted them all to rip up the Prem this season?

They’ve not been given the chance to. I think that’s most people’s gripe.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:03 pm

24 this year

Is he? My bad thank, you for the correction

If he continues to get game time with Hull I doubt he will want to come back here as a bench warmer next season
If we can make a financial profit from him this summer he will likely be gone
It's all part of VK's project

Yeah Kompany has left Zaroury out of the team in the hope he could get a loan move to the Championship (where he has already proved he can play at that level) rather than play him at a higher level in order to make a profit.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:41 am

If he continues to get game time with Hull I doubt he will want to come back here as a bench warmer next season
If we can make a financial profit from him this summer he will likely be gone
It's all part of VK's project

He'll only be gone if a)we want to sell him, and b) if somebody offers an acceptable price, otherwise he'll be back with us, and no doubt would feature if we are in the championship

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:16 pm

Well Tresor seems to have fallen out of favour after a few unsatisfactory performances. And I’ve personally not seen a lack of application from Ramsey. Definitely an inability to impact a game but that’s another matter.

I don’t really think he’s shown loyalty to this summer’s signings, the team has been chopped and changed on a weekly basis. Amdouni and Trafford are the shoo-ins whose place could be questioned, but I don’t think Kompany is sticking with either of them out of loyalty.

The 3 player's that I think would particularly be in question of loyalty are Trafford, Ramsey and amdouni. In amdouni's case loyalty hasn't been so apparent as the other 2 and tbf there hasn't been too many other options in terms of forward players re-:amdouni, personally I don't see how you can play amdouni and Berge in the same team, their just too similar in the sense that imo Berge is a far better am than dm, so it's one or the other and one on the bench, but amdouni has had enough chances imo he's just not giving enough effort consistently, so Berge for me all day long. As for the other two, it's no more than loyalty, both Trafford and Ramsey are not up to the physicality of this league " bear in mind that I wish Ramsey a full recovery and do know what he's going through I've suffered the same injury myself" but vk has shown far more loyalty to both Trafford and Ramsey than any other players when the latter has in he's opinion been fit, although he's had strapping to he's leg on 2/3rds of he's appearances so I question whether he's ever been fit, how can heavy strapping to a player's leg suggest he's fit for the rigours of the league he's playing in .

So on to the question of zaroury and Benson !!
With reference to the Benson article in the Burnley express, vk is claiming Benson has not adapted to the Premier league and that everyone has had the same opportunity. I've never heard such utter c**p in all my life, it's very obvious for everyone to see that Trafford hasn't adapted to this league, yet he's played every minute of it. Benson it says in the article I've mentioned has played 100 minute's, and not all at once might I add, how on earth does vk expect to see or make judgement on whether he's adapted to this league after a stop/start 100 minute's, there's 100s of Premier league players over the years who don't train well but are brilliant on match day, play the best creative player we have ffs.
I've not checked zaroury's minute's on the pitch, but don't think it will be too much different to Benson, so it's a ditto in he's case, play him for god sake, big mistake to loan him imo. Again I've not checked if these two have had any minute's on the pitch together but don't think so, but they need to be played together, that's when they're the at their best and provide the biggest threat. And get the best keeper back on the pitch.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:18 pm

Best winger we've had in many a year.Total madness by VK in loaning him out.

Better than McNeil ? Really ?

Be interesting to see if Zaroury is up for it next season when he comes back and also Roberts and Benson ..