Any thoughts on where we find a player with Nathan Tellas goalscoring ability for next seasons promotion push.?
His goals out of nothing were the major factor we won games and he was imo Burnleys major blunder in not signing him on.

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 am

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

All depends who stays and who we bring in, we need experience and heart otherwise this bunch of fairies will get relegated again

Benson's goals won us more points than Tellas, they actually scored in a similar number of games but Benson's were more decisive. Not saying we don't miss Tells - we obviously do - just that there's a guy who's been frozen out who won us more from nothing, we have our two biggest contributors to replace.

Don't agree that they're already at the club either. If Amdouni stays he might tear up the championship or might lack the necessary physicality to deal with a lot of the roughhouse sides. None of our wingers are like Tella in style, Odobert might be able to replace Benson but nobody else is that channel running wide forward that Tella was. We'll be playing a different setup again I'd imagine.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 am

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

Completely agree with this, but also add Foster.

Nobody currently at the club has Tellas killer instinct, including Foster.
We are desperate for a marksman.

Spot on TT that's the point I was making .

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 am

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

There is indeed an ever increasing gap between Premier & Championship . However a smart manager will adapt and secure enough points to survive and build on that the following season, or at least make a fight of it and get over the 30 point mark

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:37 am

Nobody currently at the club has Tellas killer instinct, including Foster.
We are desperate for a marksman.

I understand your point but I think that’s hard to say having not seen these players play in a team that dominates the ball and creates a lot of chances. Or playing against much lower opposition where everything is a second or two slower.

Take Tella, he was great for us but he scored 10 of his goals vs Blackpool, Preston, Hull & Wigan in hatricks/braces. Those clubs just aren’t anywhere near close to the quality we’re playing at the moment. Outside of that he got 7 single goals over 40+ games.

Probably the closest marker we’ve got this year is Luton and Sheff United (distorted because of the sending off) but managed to pick up 2 wins, 1 draw & score eight goals.

I think we’ll be okay with what we have once they find form in front of goal. We could go in to the loan market again but I’d really rather we actually stuck to our players this time around as I think our reliance on loans is one of the reasons we’ve had issues this year.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:37 am

Nobody currently at the club has Tellas killer instinct, including Foster.
We are desperate for a marksman.

I think in the past 3 games we have scored zero goals and tested the keeper once. We had four very good chances yesterday and fluffed all of them

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:45 am

I understand your point but I think that’s hard to say having not seen these players play in a team that dominates the ball and creates a lot of chances. Or playing against much lower opposition where everything is a second or two slower.

Take Tella, he was great for us but he scored 10 of his goals vs Blackpool, Preston, Hull & Wigan in hatricks/braces. Those clubs just aren’t anywhere near close to the quality we’re playing at the moment. Outside of that he got 7 single goals over 40+ games.

Probably the closest marker we’ve got this year is Luton and Sheff United (distorted because of the sending off) but managed to pick up 2 wins, 1 draw & score eight goals.

I think we’ll be okay with what we have once they find form in front of goal. We could go in to the loan market again but I’d really rather we actually stuck to our players this time around as I think our reliance on loans is one of the reasons we’ve had issues this year.

You do have some very inconsistent and odd ways of evaluating players. NC

He bagged once every 148 minutes for us in the Champ on average - (predominantly) drifting in from the right in a team that shared the goals... that's a good record no matter how one frames it.

Never mind the next Nathan Tella, I’m waiting for the £100 million pound player to emerge that Vincent said was in our ranks.

Foster, if fit will be our 20 goal man.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:53 am

You do have some very inconsistent and odd ways of evaluating players. NC

He bagged once every 148 minutes for us in the Champ on average - (predominantly) drifting in from the right in a team that shared the goals... that's a good record no matter how one frames it.

I’m not framing his record in any way, don’t be so sensitive.

He was great for us but I’m stating facts, which are that we’ve not seen most of this team play against lower opposition, so we don’t know whether a player as clinical as Tella was for us exists in this team.

His record for Leverkusen is better - a goal every 90 - but he’s only getting on in the 80th minute in most games. There he’s scored 3 of his goals vs Darmstadt and Union Berlin (bottom and 14th respectively) and the other vs Leipzig (5th).

I’d take him back in a heartbeat but he did score 10 of his 17 in 4 games. He wasn’t a consistent threat, as you say his RW position maybe why, but it wouldn’t shock me to see players in the current side have his scoring record in the Championship.

I’d take him back in a heartbeat and do wonder if they might loan him us given he hardly gets any minutes, but I’d play him as a CF.

The problem is, the new players to the EPL have had a rude awakening, that they aren’t as good as they thought, and they will respond in different ways. Some will move on in a fit of pique, some will dig in. Tella had already had his rude awakening in how many games for Southampton. So maybe the key is to get players who won’t be as surprised by it.

The perfect signing for us in that position would have been Cole Palmer on loan. 500 minutes in the EPL, so knows it to a degree, plays 10 minutes at the Turf for City, then warms the bench for 2 games, is set to sign for us on loan (so they say), then Chelsea swoop in at the 11th hour and the rest is history. I have no doubts, we signed him, we stayed up. Other deficiencies are deficiencies but don’t necessarily exceed those of other teams, scoring goals has been the problem, especially since Luca got injured.

So maybe on reflection the key is to do the same things but ensure those kind of transfers happen. That so many fell through is likely to have been pivotal.

id say we would be in a lot better shape if we would have had foster for 100% of games.

he will be prolific in the championship, 20+ goals easily. just hope we can keep hold of him

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:37 am

Nobody currently at the club has Tellas killer instinct, including Foster.
We are desperate for a marksman.

That's what we are missing so badly, was summed up on motd, lack real conviction and killer instinct, had chances yesterday but failed to hit the back of the net, Odobert and Larsen were the most glaring.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 am

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

They need their spirits lifting first, confidence is key to a players performance and VKs major weakness appears to be man management and motivation.
Technical ability means nothing without the fight and courage that Luton show, and we once had by the sackful

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 am

They are already at the club. Koleosho, odobert, Tresor. There is a huge gulf in class between pl and championship and we are in that ghost league at the moment. These players will do very well in the championship for a season

Tresor?!?! You are surely having a laugh.

I’d go and get him. I think he’d want come to us. Try and I mean try and sell some of our dead wood to raise the funds to buy him.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:11 am

The perfect signing for us in that position would have been Cole Palmer..... I have no doubts, we signed him, we stayed up

With which midfield engine would you have expected to feed him balls with to score goals? Serious question.

We have given Foster and then Fofana sweet FA to work with, why would Palmer be any different? Especially when we play Berge so deep he's an extra defender most of the time.

it will be interesting to see what happens with Obafemi

Obafemi was always a strange signing perhaps we could resist Flemming at Millwall and throw in Obefemi as part of the deal

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:53 am

You do have some very inconsistent and odd ways of evaluating players. NC

He bagged once every 148 minutes for us in the Champ on average - (predominantly) drifting in from the right in a team that shared the goals... that's a good record no matter how one frames it.

To be honest I think it's a fair framing. In the summer I felt the quoted price for Tella was too much at the time- two months into the season I felt very different given what we've paid for others BUT the point remains that his best run of goals was a condensed purple patch against poor teams, and despite being our top scorer he wasn't our top match winner. I'm not sure goals or goals per minute are good measures - Dervisoglu was our best for the latter after all.
Points winning goals is for me the important stat but it becomes hard to calculate if say, you win 3-2 via a hat trick. Each goal has contributed to the 3 points, without 1 you lose 2 points without 2 you lose 3. I don't know exactly how youd calculate or weight it dependent on scorelines but the first goal in a 4-0 ought to mean more than the 4th.

Tella was very good for us but he wasn't a consistent player, he was EXTREMELY hot cold, some awesome games but a lot of games especially early on where he didn't do much, and I wouldn't call him an uber clinical finisher. Two footed, quick, good first touch, reasonable in the air for his height, decent passer okay crosser, good running, but not especially clinical, or a dynamic dribbler like Benson/Zaroury. People forget the incidents where he preferred to try con a penalty and fall over rather than get a shot away, I wish in hindsight we'd made it permanent but he wasn't a perfect attacker or even our most important one, just a very very useful outlet that we haven't replaced.

Tella was our most important attacking player last season.

Tella was an outstanding talent and snubbed by us after shooting us into the premier league .. Tresor is nowhere near as good as Tella .. that’s actually laughable to think he is

Foster and Amdouni?

Where did Nathan end up?

jos wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:20 pm

Where did Nathan end up?

Apparently not good enough for the premier league so is playing for Bayern Leverkusen and scoring for team top of bundesliga

If Tella played against our current team he would run riot probably netting 5 …

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:25 pm

If Tella played against our current team he would run riot probably netting 5 …

......in the first half

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:24 pm

Apparently not good enough for the premier league so is playing for Bayern Leverkusen and scoring for team top of bundesliga

it was NEVER about his ability, we didn't want to pay the 20 million for him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but in the real world.....

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:28 pm

it was NEVER about his ability, we didn't want to pay the 20 million for him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but in the real world.....

I’m sure we could have bought him for 15 million at first but dragged it on with a 9 million bid .. Leverkusen eventually came in 20 m bid .. but we bought Ramsey 16m .. Amoudini 18 m … Tresor ? ::: we should have bought Tella someone we know and was a monumental mistake not doing

Stockbrokerbelt wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:21 am

Foster, if fit will be our 20 goal man.

If fit appears to be a very big if.

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:36 pm

I’m sure we could have bought him for 15 million at first but dragged it on with a 9 million bid .. Leverkusen eventually came in 20 m bid .. but we bought Ramsey 16m .. Amoudini 18 m … Tresor ? ::: we should have bought Tella someone we know and was a monumental mistake not doing

hindsight

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:12 am

Never mind the next Nathan Tella, I’m waiting for the £100 million pound player to emerge that Vincent said was in our ranks.

That comment could haunt him in a similar way to Jimmy Adamson's 'Team of the Seventies' quote.
But for different reasons obviously.

That said, this season does have a bit of a feel of Jimmy's first relegation season.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:02 pm

hindsight

Hindsight ? He was fantastic .. I think most people were amazed we never signed him ! Bad recruiting is what I think

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:49 am

I think in the past 3 games we have scored zero goals and tested the keeper once. We had four very good chances yesterday and fluffed all of them

Their keeper made 6 saves on Sunday (1 great save and 5 run of the mill saves)! But still 6 on target!

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:04 pm

Hindsight ? He was fantastic .. I think most people were amazed we never signed him ! Bad recruiting is what I think

he'd done the square root of nothing previous to joining us. THB was brilliant for us yet not a single PL team fancied him at the price City were asking for. I get why we didn't go for him at 20 but I wish we had

Tella couldn't cut it in the PL with Southampton.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:11 pm

Tella couldn't cut it in the PL with Southampton.

Majority of our new signings can't cut it in the premier league.
Tella is going to be a bundesliga winner

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:24 pm

Apparently not good enough for the premier league so is playing for Bayern Leverkusen and scoring for team top of bundesliga

Just looked at their results and he appears to have scored just 2 goals this season and they were in the same game. Seems to be starting lots of games on the subs bench.

bumba wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:15 pm

Majority of our new signings can't cut it in the premier league.
Tella is going to be a bundesliga winner

Really!
Just looked at their results and he appears to have scored just 2 goals this season and they were in the same game. Seems to be starting lots of games on the subs bench.

Talented though Tella was the system we had set him up perfectly. Short passing which saw Jay drop deep and the opposition would push up gradually to try and squeeze the play as they becane more frustrated. We'd then play a quick ball over the top for him to run onto.

I think we have the tools with Foster and Obafemi, just need a pattern of play and at this time easier opponents

Leisure wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:18 pm

Really!
Just looked at their results and he appears to have scored just 2 goals this season and they were in the same game. Seems to be starting lots of games on the subs bench.

We couldn’t afford 20 million for Tella so wasted over 100 million on an average squad .. let’s see how we get on next season without Tella .. fingers crossed Tresor steps up scores 20 goals

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:44 pm

We couldn’t afford 20 million for Tella so wasted over 100 million on an average squad .. let’s see how we get on next season without Tella .. fingers crossed Tresor steps up scores 20 goals

My reply was.more in response to you saying that he was going to be a Bundesliga winner.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:48 pm

My reply was.more in response to you saying that he was going to be a Bundesliga winner.

When I look back now at how we never signed Tella or even made much of an attempt it was a red flag warning of things to come .. we then totally dismantled the team replacing it with an unproven and untested team.. fast forward 7 months and we have less points than Luton who spent zip … we have majorly messed up

If we are relying on Tresor in the Championship, then I believe we are in deep

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:12 am

Never mind the next Nathan Tella, I’m waiting for the £100 million pound player to emerge that Vincent said was in our ranks.

Wondered why he said 100 million pound player at the time . Seemed a bit daft. Now Knowing he runs a recruitment business and has players playing for a team he also manages from the same agency, makes a bit more sense now

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:51 pm

To be honest I think it's a fair framing. In the summer I felt the quoted price for Tella was too much at the time- two months into the season I felt very different given what we've paid for others BUT the point remains that his best run of goals was a condensed purple patch against poor teams, and despite being our top scorer he wasn't our top match winner. I'm not sure goals or goals per minute are good measures - Dervisoglu was our best for the latter after all.
Points winning goals is for me the important stat but it becomes hard to calculate if say, you win 3-2 via a hat trick. Each goal has contributed to the 3 points, without 1 you lose 2 points without 2 you lose 3. I don't know exactly how youd calculate or weight it dependent on scorelines but the first goal in a 4-0 ought to mean more than the 4th.

Tella was very good for us but he wasn't a consistent player, he was EXTREMELY hot cold, some awesome games but a lot of games especially early on where he didn't do much, and I wouldn't call him an uber clinical finisher. Two footed, quick, good first touch, reasonable in the air for his height, decent passer okay crosser, good running, but not especially clinical, or a dynamic dribbler like Benson/Zaroury. People forget the incidents where he preferred to try con a penalty and fall over rather than get a shot away, I wish in hindsight we'd made it permanent but he wasn't a perfect attacker or even our most important one, just a very very useful outlet that we haven't replaced.

There's much more to his game than finishing though - his pressing and in behind threat was massive for us.

We could barely bag a goal got a slight knock to the end of last season - was a perfect duo/double act with Benson.

He could also play off the left and did earlier on before Zaroury signed.