Kompany quote

[Paul Waine]

Hi Paul

Yes, the trough I was pointing to was alluding to the point i was making in reply to a comment in this thread wonderig if they have moved past the 'Peak of Mount-Stupid' into the 'Valley of Despair'.

OK. I'm pretty sure that Dunning-Kruger is not the way to look at Vincent Kompany's knowledge and experience as either a top footballer or as a Championship winning manager and entering his first experience in the Premier League.

[Darthlaw]

At this level, I at least expect us to be competitive, which bar a few exceptions, we just haven't been.

Born yesterday or just been supporting Burnley since 2016?

[CoolClaret]

OK. I'm pretty sure that Dunning-Kruger is not the way to look at Vincent Kompany's knowledge and experience as either a top footballer or as a Championship winning manager and entering his first experience in the Premier League.

Why's that?

I thought the approach to the seaosn was wrong and they seemingly doubled down - now he comes out with that quote about learning more than ever after earlier in the season both him (and Bellamy) were pretty steadfast in their beliefs/philosophy/approach to the season was the right one.

That looks like moving through the Dunning-Kruger curve to me!

[The Shire Claret]

Why's that?

I thought the approach to the seaosn was wrong and they seemingly doubled down - now he comes out with that quote about learning more than ever after earlier in the season both him (and Bellamy) were pretty steadfast in their beliefs/philosophy/approach to the season was the right one.

That looks like moving through the Dunning-Kruger curve to me!

There is absolutely no way you can say VK is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect lol

Although he may have limited managerial experience, he’s certainly had success and he doesn’t overestimate his abilities or state he is better than his peers with more and experience…. In fact he’s stated on many occasions he takes advice from more experienced managers.

Couldn’t be further away from it

It’s more a case that there is zero patience in football and no time to make mistakes and learn cause a season counts as a lifetime to some people

Arteta is showing why it’s sometimes good to stick with a project

So many managers get sacked and replaced only for nothing at all to improve

[CoolClaret]

There is absolutely no way you can say VK is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect lol

Although he may have limited managerial experience, he’s certainly had success and he doesn’t overestimate his abilities or state he is better than his peers with more and experience…. In fact he’s stated on many occasions he takes advice from more experienced managers.

Couldn’t be further away from it

It’s more a case that there is zero patience in football and no time to make mistakes and learn cause a season counts as a lifetime to some people

Arteta is showing why it’s sometimes good to stick with a project

So many managers get sacked and replaced only for nothing at all to improve

Of course I can

But I do agree with the rest of your comment.

Just needs to show signs that we've improved/he's learning.

[quoonbeatz]

At least 50% of teams in this league aren't competitive, they are just trying to stay up year on year. Probably nearer 70-75% really.

[fidelcastro]

Born yesterday or just been supporting Burnley since 2016?

Is this the default position of anyone who dares to criticise Saint Vincent?

I've been a season ticket holder since 1990 if you must know.

[NL Claret]

I remember a job I had 5 years ago, had a terrible last 9 months but honestly feel like I learnt more in that 9 months than I have in 19 years working. I honestly wouldn't change it looking back now as its made me better at what I do even though I felt well out of my depth
Think I get where he's coming from

Not really interested in much that is posted on here however your post rings true with me, been working for 35 years, I had some quite mad and negative work experiences a couple of years back. It made me think a lot more about myself and how I could have acted differently. It has definitely given me a lot experience at recognising and dealing with problems and being more resilient. I agree, I get where’s coming from, just hope he hasn’t created something that can’t be fixed.

[Darthlaw]

Is this the default position of anyone who dares to criticise Saint Vincent?

I've been a season ticket holder since 1990 if you must know.

Then you should know better than to ‘expect’ Burnley to be competitive in the PL.

We have relatively small spend (yes even including the £100m we’ve spent across 10 players this season), we have youth facilities behind some championship sides and generate funds far below that of a lot of Championship sides. Until recently we didn’t even really dip our toe into players from abroad bar the odd gem a la Defour or Cornet.

The game is stacked against us and we’re (currently) beating the house. Best to keep your expectations realistic and hope we can compete in our mini league to stay up, which safe to say we have been miserable at this season.

[fidelcastro]

Then you should know better than to ‘expect’ Burnley to be competitive in the PL.

We have relatively small spend (yes even including the £100m we’ve spent across 10 players this season), we have youth facilities behind some championship sides and generate funds far below that of a lot of Championship sides.

The game is stacked against us and we’re (currently) beating the house.

I'm not sure what beating the house is... But we still managed to be competitive in the PL under Dyche with an identity to how we played.

Even when we were relegated under him in that first season at this level, we amassed 33 points, with far less of a budget squandered.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Not sure why a sensible comment from VK leads to over 50 posts again, but in sport at any level we are taught we win or learn. That’s what he was wryly referring to, and he is right. He was being wry, because of course he is in pain and would rather be winning not learning.

[Vegas Claret]

Yeah, I can go with that; don't think they're fully past the trough mind, maybe just slowly realising that they're there...

I'm hoping they are way past it and have a far better plan this summer than last summer !!

[Vegas Claret]

At least 50% of teams in this league aren't competitive, they are just trying to stay up year on year. Probably nearer 70-75% really.

Forest have spent 3-400 million over the last few years, take Morgan Gibbs White out of that team and there's not much else to shows for it

[Vegas Claret]

Not sure why a sensible comment from VK leads to over 50 posts again, but in sport at any level we are taught we win or learn. That’s what he was wryly referring to, and he is right. He was being wry, because of course he is in pain and would rather be winning not learning.

and not everyone can win every week, top level sport is brutal

[Somethingfishy]

If you think the thread is shite then ignore it and let it die / or be a bit more open minded

VK may state he is improving and learning. But I'm not seeing any evidence of it

What I see is he only knows one way to play, and next season it may or may not work again

I'm less worried about VK learning than I am of fans like yourself that think we are playing the same way this season to last season and that we constantly play the same way.

[fidelcastro]

and not everyone can win every week, top level sport is brutal

Or in our case, we can't win any week.

[mdd2]

Plenty of Dunning-Kruger on some of the opinions on this MB
From how to manage our team, education, Government and some mind blowing posts on Assisted dying just now
Dunning-Kruger a bit like the four stages of knowing

[mdd2]

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not-is a fool shun him
He who knows not and knows that he knows not is teachable- teach him
He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep- wake him
He who knows and knows that he knows is wise - follow him
As this was taught in my junior school days about 70 years ago please excuse the he and substitute she or them where it is felt to be for you or thou

[Vegas Claret]

Or in our case, we can't win any week.

we won nearly every week all last season

[Carlos the Great]

Not sure why a sensible comment from VK leads to over 50 posts again, but in sport at any level we are taught we win or learn. That’s what he was wryly referring to, and he is right. He was being wry, because of course he is in pain and would rather be winning not learning.

But when VK was sat in Pace office asking for a budget of 100m plus for transfers ..,that would of been a good time for him to explain he is only learning and has no experience at this level managing and the likelihood is we will get relegated . Expectations have been dramatically lowered I bet from what was originally spouted

[Vegas Claret]

I'm not sure what beating the house is... But we still managed to be competitive in the PL under Dyche with an identity to how we played.

Even when we were relegated under him in that first season at this level, we amassed 33 points, with far less of a budget squandered.

Forest have spent between 3-400 million putting their team together, they are TWO places above us. 100 million, like it or not, is absolutely **** all in the 23/24 Premier League. I genuinely struggle with how people can't see the bigger issue here in terms of the pyramid, if the next 3 promoted teams struggle as much as this current 3 have then it will get to the stage that promoted clubs won't spend a penny on promotion.

[Vegas Claret]

But when VK was sat in Pace office asking for a budget of 100m plus for transfers ..,that would of been a good time for him to explain he is only learning and has no experience at this level managing and the likelihood is we will get relegated . Expectations have been dramatically lowered I bet from what was originally spouted

there were loads of us on here that predicted us having a real struggle to stay up this season before a ball was kicked (not sure many thought it would be this bad though)

[Carlos the Great]

there were loads of us on here that predicted us having a real struggle to stay up this season before a ball was kicked (not sure many thought it would be this bad though)

So basically we have spent all our premier league money to get absolutely nowhere this season .. I actually think we are in a much worse position because we now have a lot of players that are not good enough on big contracts ,, last time we got relegated we sold 3 players for around 60 million but we haven’t got 1 player I can think of who would fetch 20 m

[quoonbeatz]

Forest have spent 3-400 million over the last few years, take Morgan Gibbs White out of that team and there's not much else to shows for it

Leave him in and there's not much to show for it.

[dandeclaret]

Forest have spent between 3-400 million putting their team together, they are TWO places above us. 100 million, like it or not, is absolutely **** all in the 23/24 Premier League. I genuinely struggle with how people can't see the bigger issue here in terms of the pyramid, if the next 3 promoted teams struggle as much as this current 3 have then it will get to the stage that promoted clubs won't spend a penny on promotion.

Using a basket case club to prove that Burnley can’t compete is a little strange. Why not Luton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford or Wolves?

[claretonthecoast1882]

He will certainly have a better understanding of an element of our fan base, just as the owners will.

[Anonymous Claret]

It's been done to death. The problem of this season lies with the recruitment in the Summer after promotion. I am absolutely certain that Kompany and the board will be aware of it. At the time the majority of posters on here, myself included, thought that it had been a decent transfer window. I was wrong along with Kompany, the board and many others.
Arguments can be made over tactics and team selection especially the Muric/Trafford debate but the root cause was the recruitment policy.
This can be seen in recent weeks because we have been starting all the 3 loan signings from January. He is putting these players ahead of squad members who have been at the club since the start of the season but has realised aren't good enough for this league. It has been the equivalent of sticking a plaster on a broken leg. Even with the 3 loan players we still aren't good enough.
As other posters have alluded to I have learnt far more from the mistakes I have made in my working career than the times when everything went swimmingly well. The key is not to make the same mistakes repeatedly because as the old saying goes that is the definition of insanity.
Let's see what happens in the Summer and hopefully VK will be still here to lead the way.

[KRBFC]

It’s more a case that there is zero patience in football and no time to make mistakes and learn cause a season counts as a lifetime to some people

Arteta is showing why it’s sometimes good to stick with a project

So many managers get sacked and replaced only for nothing at all to improve

This is absolutely spot on, Arteta went back to back 8th placed finishes in his first two seasons, now look at them, those young players they’ve bought have now developed and formed a team capable of winning a title.

VKs first season should have bought him time for patience, he should’ve had a free hit at this season in the eyes of the fans but he was criticised after a handful of games and the patience in the fan base was gone very early on.

[KRBFC]

I'm not sure what beating the house is... But we still managed to be competitive in the PL under Dyche with an identity to how we played.

Even when we were relegated under him in that first season at this level, we amassed 33 points, with far less of a budget squandered.

Dyche chose to spend more on wages, VK has chosen to spend more on fees. Money is money. £100m on fees when your wage bill is 40m is different to £100m on fees with a £90m wage bill.

VK also sold £70m worth of players last season and spend half of that.

[fidelcastro]

Forest have spent between 3-400 million putting their team together, they are TWO places above us. 100 million, like it or not, is absolutely **** all in the 23/24 Premier League. I genuinely struggle with how people can't see the bigger issue here in terms of the pyramid, if the next 3 promoted teams struggle as much as this current 3 have then it will get to the stage that promoted clubs won't spend a penny on promotion.

Drivel.

[fidelcastro]

Dyche chose to spend more on wages, VK has chosen to spend more on fees. Money is money. £100m on fees when your wage bill is 40m is different to £100m on fees with a £90m wage bill.

VK also sold £70m worth of players last season and spend half of that.

I forgot you were privy to how much players earn and were bought for.

[Jamesy]

Failing

Funny to see you with your thong in a twist, after all those years of you trying to silence my opinion on Dycheball.

VK is not failing btw, he took us up year 1 and down year 2, he’s built a pretty good talented squad from scratch in that time and no doubt made the club a fortune along the way.

I’d say we’re better now than when VK walked through the door, put your dummy back in.

I think you are overlooking one important factor linked to the squad he has now assembled. The cost of it.
This could seriously affect the club going forwards. ALK have still got to service this huge debt and parachute money alone won’t cover it.

[NewClaret]

I think you are overlooking one important factor linked to the squad he has now assembled. The cost of it.
This could seriously affect the club going forwards. ALK have still got to service this huge debt and parachute money alone won’t cover it.

Nobody knows what debt we have got or whether it is higher or lower than last time we were relegated.

Three much overlooked discussion threads on the debt topic are that we will have had far lower wage expenses this time than when we were last relegated, we have further scope to rapidly reduce the salary bill next year with a number of the highly paid senior players from the Dyche era coming to the end of their contracts, and the quite significant but unexplained deposits of £88m and £80m cash to the parent companies (which may or may not be partly the same money).

[KRBFC]

I think you are overlooking one important factor linked to the squad he has now assembled. The cost of it.
This could seriously affect the club going forwards. ALK have still got to service this huge debt and parachute money alone won’t cover it.

What huge debt? What are the repayments? How much do we have to cover those debts? How much did our new investors put in?

[Tall Paul]

I never thought I'd live to see the day that KRBFC is the voice of reason.

[IanMcL]

There was me thinking the one thing referees had been to Burnley, this season, is consistent!!!

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... th-4541049

[Jamesy]

What huge debt? What are the repayments? How much do we have to cover those debts? How much did our new investors put in?

Simple fact. You borrow a lot of money, you have to pay it back as per agreed terms at point of borrowing money.
You receive money for promotion to Premier League. You are sensible with it in relation to new signings, loans, contracts etc. to try and be sustainable.
Or, you simply blow all of the Premier League money on lots of poor signings and then get relegated and then wonder how to make repayments on loan with a seriously reduced income/revenue stream.

[Jamesy]

Nobody knows what debt we have got or whether it is higher or lower than last time we were relegated.

Three much overlooked discussion threads on the debt topic are that we will have had far lower wage expenses this time than when we were last relegated, we have further scope to rapidly reduce the salary bill next year with a number of the highly paid senior players from the Dyche era coming to the end of their contracts, and the quite significant but unexplained deposits of £88m and £80m cash to the parent companies (which may or may not be partly the same money).

It’s a bit like nobody knows which of these players he has bought might turn out to be any good or we may make a profit on.
It’s purely speculation.
What we can all do however, is see with our own eyes. We can see that he has spent a hell of a lot of money on players that don’t appear to be very good. Or that he is unable to get them playing as expected, and that as a football club we are obligated to service the large debt that was created at the point of ALK takeover.

[NewClaret]

It’s a bit like nobody knows which of these players he has bought might turn out to be any good or we may make a profit on.
It’s purely speculation.
What we can all do however, is see with our own eyes. We can see that he has spent a hell of a lot of money on players that don’t appear to be very good. Or that he is unable to get them playing as expected, and that as a football club we are obligated to service the large debt that was created at the point of ALK takeover.

I wasn’t replying about the team, that’s been done to death. I was replying to your comment that we have a huge debt to service, which we know halved last year, and pretty much nothing else other than our parent companies have received large, unexplained cash inflows.

[Jamesy]

I wasn’t replying about the team, that’s been done to death. I was replying to your comment that we have a huge debt to service, which we know halved last year, and pretty much nothing else other than our parent companies have received large, unexplained cash inflows.

The mention of the team was in relation to the money we have spent. Therefore less money to spend on players next season because we will be servicing the debt.

[Vegas Claret]

Using a basket case club to prove that Burnley can’t compete is a little strange. Why not Luton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford or Wolves?

I didn't = I did the exact opposite of that. Extraordinarily clear that the point is just because you throw money at it doesn't mean you have success.
You might want to have a proper look at what those others clubs have spent putting their squads together over the last few years (other than Luton of course)

[Vegas Claret]

Drivel.

Fact

[boyyanno]

We still likely owe 60m+ for the players that are here- that's ignoring any other debts.

That seems to get overlooked on a constant basis here.

[bumba]

We still likely owe 60m+ for the players that are here- that's ignoring any other debts.

That seems to get overlooked on a constant basis here.

I honestly don't understand how some fans think we'll maintain this squad and add to it, it's guaranteed we sell this summer. Any decent offers will be considered then we'll try and rebuild again that's what's made this season so daft because we can't keep doing it that way.
We've spent all our premier league money so the money next season covers wages we only buy by selling first or adding on more debt risking points deductions

[fidelcastro]

Fact

It's a fact because you say so, is it?

I can tell you haven't attended a game for decades, because if you had, you wouldn't spout this garbage.

[Jakubclaret]

I honestly don't understand how some fans think we'll maintain this squad and add to it, it's guaranteed we sell this summer. Any decent offers will be considered then we'll try and rebuild again that's what's made this season so daft because we can't keep doing it that way.
We've spent all our premier league money so the money next season covers wages we only buy by selling first or adding on more debt risking points deductions

A massive opportunity been spurned with disregarding the key building blocks imperative for future growth. It'll be a summer of upheaval I think with decisions on extensions & the loanees.

[Big Vinny K]

Using a basket case club to prove that Burnley can’t compete is a little strange. Why not Luton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford or Wolves?

Have you seen the accounts of Bournemouth, Fulham or Wolves recently ?
Luton are the exception
We are the norm now….actually forget that we are still nowhere near the norm.
Check out the finances of some of these clubs or Villa, Forest, West Ham, or many others.
More basket cases than not these days in the Premier League - it’s not sustainable what is happening

[Vegas Claret]

It's a fact because you say so, is it?

I can tell you haven't attended a game for decades, because if you had, you wouldn't spout this garbage.

funnily enough you'd be wrong about that too.

[Dyched]

This is absolutely spot on, Arteta went back to back 8th placed finishes in his first two seasons, now look at them, those young players they’ve bought have now developed and formed a team capable of winning a title.

VKs first season should have bought him time for patience, he should’ve had a free hit at this season in the eyes of the fans but he was criticised after a handful of games and the patience in the fan base was gone very early on.

Arteta has achieved nothing yet. Arsenal are 20 years without a title since going a season unbeaten. We can use them as a prime example that you can’t expect to hit your targets with “potential”. Just how much have they spent and wasted over that 20 years on potential whilst not coming close to a title?

A few good seasons in 20 years isn’t very good really is it? And I know Arteta hasn’t been there all that time, but that has been the Arsenal way since they last won the title.

[dandeclaret]

I didn't = I did the exact opposite of that. Extraordinarily clear that the point is just because you throw money at it doesn't mean you have success.
You might want to have a proper look at what those others clubs have spent putting their squads together over the last few years (other than Luton of course)

The point is if you throw money at it badly, (of which many were calling out as much pre season with a vast array of wingers and 10's arriving) that you won't have success. If only there was a use case of applying money appropriately, making more right decisions than wrong, and evolving a side to perform above it's level over a period of time that we could refer to.... or if there was a couple of cases in point happening now.

Also, as somebody who is very keen to rush to suppress the values paid by Burnley to those lower than reported in the press, it doesn't quite sit right to quote an unvalidated £300-£400m number - that's quite a large spread of spend there.