James Trafford's Contract

[StayingDown4Ever]

I wonder how much we’ve made on him to date and if there’ll be a host of clubs after his signature in the Summer.

Good one

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Too many people complain about the lack of experience in our team & the only way to let players get the experience is to play them, I trust VK to be doing the right thing for long term improvement.

[bumba]

And if this were in any way realistic, no club on earth would invest in proven young talent.
Trafford is a kid playing in front of a relatively poor defence behind a relatively weak midfield in the most difficult league in world football.
Let's judge Trafford and the wisdom or otherwise of his purchase over next season too.

I'm not sure what the defence or midfield has to do with his inability to command his area and certainly isn't the reason for so many of his silly mistakes.
We bought a 'top' shot stopper but looking back over his 28 games there's maybe 1 or 2 good saves, I'm still to see any where I've thought wow what a save and his goals conceded counteract his 'top' shot stopping ability

[bumba]

Too many people complain about the lack of experience in our team & the only way to let players get the experience is to play them, I trust VK to be doing the right thing for long term improvement.

The model is to sell these players so when any player has the relative experience they will be sold on at max profit and we'll move on to the next young inexperienced player, that is the model

[The Shire Claret]

The model is to sell these players so when any player has the relative experience they will be sold on at max profit and we'll move on to the next young inexperienced player, that is the model

In time - the idea will absolutely be to keep players too...

[what_no_pies]

Too many people complain about the lack of experience in our team & the only way to let players get the experience is to play them, I trust VK to be doing the right thing for long term improvement.

The right thing for their long term improvement is to let them play alongside seasoned campaigners who they can learn from. The weekly procession going out for a flogging and looking lost is a different kind of experience which could do more harm than good.

[bumba]

In time - the idea will absolutely be to keep players too...

You didn't watch the documentary then

[The Shire Claret]

You didn't watch the documentary then

I did ....

[bumba]

I did ....

Did you miss an episode? There's one that VK and Pace talk about the plan going forward, sell 3/4 every summer window when they hit peak value then use another youngster

[StayingDown4Ever]

Trafford hit his peak value last summer when we blew £19 million on him.

[Vegas Claret]

Did you miss an episode? There's one that VK and Pace talk about the plan going forward, sell 3/4 every summer window when they hit peak value then use another youngster

sell 3 to 4 every year - that leaves 21, so...........

[Nori1958]

Trafford hit his peak value last summer when we blew £19 million on him.

We didnt

[The Shire Claret]

Did you miss an episode? There's one that VK and Pace talk about the plan going forward, sell 3/4 every summer window when they hit peak value then use another youngster

I didn’t -

Selling 3-4 players a season ties in to my point that we will not sell everyone and rebuild with just youngsters every season

The ideology i’m sure eventuality is that we will have a mix

This is how clubs like ours can maintain

[Nori1958]

I didn’t -

Selling 3-4 players a season ties in to my point that we will not sell everyone and rebuild with just youngsters every season

The ideology i’m sure eventuality is that we will have a mix

This is how clubs like ours can maintain

Most sensible people see that

[beeholeclaret]

Most sensible people see that

Agree with this and previous post.

[Spiral]

Muric apparently blew up at Kompany in training a good few months back. That probably just reinforced Kompany's thoughts about him not being the right man. Trafford is shite but the simplest explanation is that Kompany sees him being here for a good few years so this trial by fi....utter catastrophic immolation, is a worthwhile part of that development. Nowt to do with contract clauses (no manager would ever agree to working under those conditions, and Vinnie was in a position to dictate his terms last summer, so nothing is being foisted upon him).

I'd have dropped Trafford months ago because I think he's awful, but even then I'd still doubt the rest of the team has enough in it to stay up, and I do legit think this season was written off by the club back in around January with similar thoughts, even if no one around the place thinks it directly. When a severely struggling club rather self-consolingly talks about "long term plans", that's usually an admission they've fcked it this season.

[Spiral]

Staying up is not the aim of the game this season any more, I don't think. Like it or loathe it, we're a bloody project team now. It's a shame folk still are made to pay for this shite.

[Vim Fuego]

Muric apparently blew up at Kompany in training a good few months back. That probably just reinforced Kompany's thoughts about him not being the right man. Trafford is shite but the simplest explanation is that Kompany sees him being here for a good few years so this trial by fi....utter catastrophic immolation, is a worthwhile part of that development. Nowt to do with contract clauses (no manager would ever agree to working under those conditions, and Vinnie was in a position to dictate his terms last summer, so nothing is being foisted upon him).

I'd have dropped Trafford months ago because I think he's awful, but even then I'd still doubt the rest of the team has enough in it to stay up, and I do legit think this season was written off by the club back in around January with similar thoughts, even if no one around the place thinks it directly. When a severely struggling club rather self-consolingly talks about "long term plans", that's usually an admission they've fcked it this season.

That explains a lot

[Penwortham_Claret]

It amazes me how quickly people dismiss the concept of young players signing with the promise of first team minutes. It happens regularly. In a recent episode of The Overlap, OGS is a guest and speaks about Jude Bellingham being in the building but they can’t get the deal finalised as his agent was insisting on a contracted amount of minutes on the pitch that just didn’t feel comfortable commuting to at his young age.

It doesn’t seem too far fetched for a player coming from City to Burnley, his stock sky high after his U21’s heroics being keen to safeguard against a season sat on the bench.

Similarly, it’s also doesn’t feel that crazy for a club who have just missed out on what was possible their first choice goalkeeping target making commitments to a the ‘future England keeper’ who they have faith in to the extend of whatever the eye watering fee was that we paid.

[evensteadiereddie]

Staying up is not the aim of the game this season any more, I don't think. Like it or loathe it, we're a bloody project team now. It's a shame folk still are made to pay for this shite.

You don't have to, there's plenty of "supporters" on here who don't go the Turf.

[evensteadiereddie]

I'm not sure what the defence or midfield has to do with his inability to command his area and certainly isn't the reason for so many of his silly mistakes.
We bought a 'top' shot stopper but looking back over his 28 games there's maybe 1 or 2 good saves, I'm still to see any where I've thought wow what a save and his goals conceded counteract his 'top' shot stopping ability

I would have thought it obvious that a weak ish team either being continually pressed or suckered into quick counter attacks by world class players will have their keeper exposed far more than, say, in the championship.
He makes one or two good saves a match. Bread and butter stuff but to say one or two good saves in 28 games is just lying.

[claretonthecoast1882]

It amazes me how quickly people dismiss the concept of young players signing with the promise of first team minutes. It happens regularly. In a recent episode of The Overlap, OGS is a guest and speaks about Jude Bellingham being in the building but they can’t get the deal finalised as his agent was insisting on a contracted amount of minutes on the pitch that just didn’t feel comfortable commuting to at his young age.

It doesn’t seem too far fetched for a player coming from City to Burnley, his stock sky high after his U21’s heroics being keen to safeguard against a season sat on the bench.

Similarly, it’s also doesn’t feel that crazy for a club who have just missed out on what was possible their first choice goalkeeping target making commitments to a the ‘future England keeper’ who they have faith in to the extend of whatever the eye watering fee was that we paid.

I am sure there are examples of players and agents requesting things but clubs won't sign a player where the player is dictating things regarding starting and minutes.

Nobody with an ounce of intelligence thinks Trafford has to start because of a clause he has had put in his contract says so.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Muric apparently blew up at Kompany in training a good few months back. That probably just reinforced Kompany's thoughts about him not being the right man.

If you’d just been promoted as keeper of the year I’d be pretty ****** off that I was being replaced too.

Do you know when this blow up happened specifically?

I can’t imagine his mood has improved with hatfuls of goals being conceded every game and him not playing.

[Nori1958]

I would have thought it obvious that a weak ish team either being continually pressed or suckered into quick counter attacks by world class players will have their keeper exposed far more than, say, in the championship.
He makes one or two good saves a match. Bread and butter stuff but to say one or two good saves in 28 games is just lying.

Look who posted it though, he'll be logging in as Johnny Francis soon to agree with himself

[Penwortham_Claret]

I am sure there are examples of players and agents requesting things but clubs won't sign a player where the player is dictating things regarding starting and minutes.

Nobody with an ounce of intelligence thinks Trafford has to start because of a clause he has had put in his contract says so.

So no club has ever agreed to it yet Bellingham’s agent was so far out of the loop that he requested it whilst negotiating with Man Utd? You’d think that with you knowing that no club would ever agree to it, his agent wouldn’t have bothered with the trip up the M6 if a request that no club would ever agree to was part of their demands.

[Spiral]

Do you know when this blow up happened specifically?

Heard this in about January I think, and it was fairly recent then if I'm not mistaken. Pinch of salt and everything, but I don't usually post this kind of stuff if I don't trust where it came from.

[RickyBobby]

Too many people complain about the lack of experience in our team & the only way to let players get the experience is to play them, I trust VK to be doing the right thing for long term improvement.

Having a team full of inexperienced players does not mean all players will gain experience. Take any job for example. If you are an engineer and build bridges, what will gain more experience, five of you with no experience fumbling around building bridge after bridge that falls down. Or a team with 3 young engineers and 2 with experience teaching them. Sure the first bridge might collapse but they will teach them and they will learn faster. Which team as an inexperienced engineer would you more like to be a part of? I have tried to make it as easy for you to understand here.
Ben Mee did wonders for pur previous centre halves teaching them how the game is player.
The way to go is to have a mix of young and old. It is the best way for the young in any professional to learn.
Having a group of young players and just expecting them to gain experience from losing every week and their confidence being smashed to bits is ludicrous.
There is a reason why kids go to school to be taught by a teacher instead of just shoving 30 kids in a room unsupervised and telling them to teach themselves.

What we desperately need at the back is a teacher.
Why is this concept of needing a mix of experience in our side so difficult for some to grasp?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Heard this in about January I think, and it was fairly recent then if I'm not mistaken. Pinch of salt and everything, but I don't usually post this kind of stuff if I don't trust where it came from.

Nori thinks I’m talking to myself

Can’t see him wanting to spend another season on the bench. Wasn’t it Sevilla that were linked with him?

[alwaysaclaret]

We didnt

And never will

[Elizabeth]

Too many people complain about the lack of experience in our team & the only way to let players get the experience is to play them, I trust VK to be doing the right thing for long term improvement.

That's normally a good way to look at it however the mistake Kompany has made is to not have enough players of the right experience on the field to properly support these young players.

[Jakubclaret]

I am sure there are examples of players and agents requesting things but clubs won't sign a player where the player is dictating things regarding starting and minutes.

Nobody with an ounce of intelligence thinks Trafford has to start because of a clause he has had put in his contract says so.

Clubs regularly do when backed into a corner as we were after missing out on BV traffords negotiating hand couldn't have been stronger at that time. Some clubs will cave in to extraordinary demands if they are desperate enough to secure a player. It's openly obvious to me that such a strong possibility exists given that kompanys resolutely sticking to his guns. Not wanting to believe something that appears obvious & plausible is just plain crazy in my view & if I lack an "ounce of intelligence" so be it!

[IanMcL]

Perhaps we can fet our money back for letting on over a certain number of goals?

[Nori1958]

And never will

Correct

[claretonthecoast1882]

Clubs regularly do when backed into a corner as we were after missing out on BV traffords negotiating hand couldn't have been stronger at that time. Some clubs will cave in to extraordinary demands if they are desperate enough to secure a player. It's openly obvious to me that such a strong possibility exists given that kompanys resolutely sticking to his guns. Not wanting to believe something that appears obvious & plausible is just plain crazy in my view & if I lack an "ounce of intelligence" so be it!

Yes but you think people should be allowed to take drugs and drive.

Weird also how you couldn't state Boris Johnson tells lies as he hadn't lied to you but you are confident to talk about contracts you haven't been witnessed to.

I think I will dismiss that latest comments from planet jakub

[Jakubclaret]

Yes but you think people should be allowed to take drugs and drive.

Weird also how you couldn't state Boris Johnson tells lies as he hadn't lied to you but you are confident to talk about contracts you haven't been witnessed to.

I think I will dismiss that latest comments from planet jakub

Typical claretinlimboland. Why do you always persist veering off & bringing non relevant topics into the debate to discredit me. I'd love to hear why you think Trafford & his agent wouldn't force a strong negotiating hand onto a weak club desperate for his signature after losing out on another goalkeeper.

[Enola Gay]

Clubs regularly do when backed into a corner as we were after missing out on BV traffords negotiating hand couldn't have been stronger at that time. Some clubs will cave in to extraordinary demands if they are desperate enough to secure a player. It's openly obvious to me that such a strong possibility exists given that kompanys resolutely sticking to his guns. Not wanting to believe something that appears obvious & plausible is just plain crazy in my view & if I lack an "ounce of intelligence" so be it!

Trafford was a 20-year-old with no professional experience above League One, and less than two seasons of that.

The idea that his negotiating hand was strong enough to parley it into a contract guaranteeing him starts at a Premier League club over a keeper who'd just been voted the best in the Championship the season before sounds like utter twaddle, to be honest.

Now, it could be that we're so poor at transfer negotiations we were outsmarted by an almost entirely inexperienced kid and his agent.
It's possible that we're doing a deal to financially help out the richest club on the planet.

Applying Hitchen's and Occam's razors to this whole thing though it's infinitely more likely that Kompany just thinks Trafford is a better keeper, either now or in the long-term, and has gone all-in on that idea.

[GetIntoEm]

Thing is, theres plenty in the football press and on TV who have been very complimentary about Trafford this season.

players values are not dictated by few 50 year olds who live in their mums spare bedroom on a message board.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Typical claretinlimboland. Why do you always persist veering off & bringing non relevant topics into the debate to discredit me. I'd love to hear why you think Trafford & his agent wouldn't force a strong negotiating hand onto a weak club desperate for his signature after losing out on another goalkeeper.

Because no matter how you word it or how many times you say it it is still garbage.

I could ask why do you always take the contrary stance on issues

[Penwortham_Claret]

Trafford was a 20-year-old with no professional experience above League One, and less than two seasons of that.

The idea that his negotiating hand was strong enough to parley it into a contract guaranteeing him starts at a Premier League club over a keeper who'd just been voted the best in the Championship the season before sounds like utter twaddle, to be honest.

Now, it could be that we're so poor at transfer negotiations we were outsmarted by an almost entirely inexperienced kid and his agent.

I don’t disagree with you on this however we know for a fact that a 16yr old kid from Birmingham made the exact same requests to Man Utd and managed to get Dortmund to agree to the demands

[Swizzlestick]

I don’t disagree with you on this however we know for a fact that a 16yr old kid from Birmingham made the exact same requests to Man Utd and managed to get Dortmund to agree to the demands

Bellingham was a widely regarded wonderkid of a talent, so much so they retired his shirt number after he left. He was also playing a level above.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I don’t disagree with you on this however we know for a fact that a 16yr old kid from Birmingham made the exact same requests to Man Utd and managed to get Dortmund to agree to the demands

Strange then that when he went to Dortmund he featured in roughly half the game time that season he joined, what exactly were his demands - to sit out half the season ?

[Penwortham_Claret]

So we have now moved from it would never be requested to it being requested for a wonderkid if they are only moving up one division?

OGS didn’t specify what the request was, just that the guaranteed playing time that Dortmund were happy to commit to, United weren’t

[Swizzlestick]

I’ve not ‘moved’ from anywhere, just explaining the major differences between the two situations.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

What’s our record Tony for goals conceded at this level ? We must be close already.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I don’t disagree with you on this however we know for a fact that a 16yr old kid from Birmingham made the exact same requests to Man Utd and managed to get Dortmund to agree to the demands

What?

He chose Dortmund precisely because they had a policy of giving young players a chance
Can you show us the proof that he was guaranteed game time at Dortmund?

[dsr]

What’s our record Tony for goals conceded at this level ? We must be close already.

We let in 103 in 1928-29. I don't know if that's the record, but it isn't particularly close.

[CoolClaret]

This thread is well embarrassing.

[boatshed bill]

Thing is, theres plenty in the football press and on TV who have been very complimentary about Trafford this season.

players values are not dictated by few 50 year olds who live in their mums spare bedroom on a message board.

Correct

[Poulton-le-Claret]

This thread is well embarrassing.

Yep, a load of nonsense. People arguing over complete speculation

[Bosscat]

Yep, a load of nonsense. People arguing over complete speculation

Quite amusing seeing folk argue over something they haven't really got a Scooby Doo about