Toffees vs Clarets Match Thread

[123EasyasBFC]

Surely, one of the key arguments put forward for Muric over Trafford was his superior distribution setting up the attacking play and creating chances for our strikers.
Obviously didn’t work this afternoon and his moment of madness cost us the game.

How is that an argument? Yet again I’ll ask, how is it muric fault the attackers can’t score. He could start 15 attacks a game but if the attackers aren’t good enough that’s not his fault.

Can’t believe you are trying to argue that it’s muric fault we only had one shot on target all game

[Marney&Mee]

Got to be one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember. So much hope and positivity going into it…then absolute garbage! Hey ho..we go again in the Championship

[boatshed bill]

How is that an argument? Yet again I’ll ask, how is it muric fault the attackers can’t score. He could start 15 attacks a game but if the attackers aren’t good enough that’s not his fault.

Can’t believe you are trying to argue that it’s muric fault we only had one shot on target all game

But 0-0 would have been better than 0-1.

[123EasyasBFC]

But 0-0 would have been better than 0-1.

Again going in 0-0 at half time doesn’t guarantee we draw or win the game come the end of the game does it?

[Stayingup]

This is a fair point. But it's worth taking into consideration that the Luton squad has been about 3 seasons in it's development.
We got promoted largely on the strength of loan signings.
I'm not sure we could buy a decent PL squad on VK's budget.

Well didn't Luton actually sign a couple of players at the start of the season? They did with the object of strengthening the team (Ross Barkley for example),not as investments, which by the way hasn't really worked for us. We had a team in the making last season. Against Arssnal at home we had one starter from that team.

[CoolClaret]

But 0-0 would have been better than 0-1.

Doesn't work like that though does it.

People really need to stop judging players / teams through one off moments in games and instead start looking the entire match and the combined performance of the team.

[boatshed bill]

Again going in 0-0 at half time doesn’t guarantee we draw or win the game come the end of the game does it?

It's more than a tad better than going in one down.
Their finishing is no better than ours, so we give them a goal.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Again going in 0-0 at half time doesn’t guarantee we draw or win the game come the end of the game does it?

This is the strangest defence of a player I have ever seen.

Muric was the reason we lost today. It’s really as simple as that. We have the benefit of hindsight, his mistake cost us the game.

[Belgianclaret]

We’re the best team in the league at shooting ourselves in the foot

[123EasyasBFC]

The fact our manager thought when we need a goal that bringing on Vitinho was our best chance shows were we are at.

But not must be muric fault that his distribution didn’t lead to us scoring today

[boatshed bill]

Well didn't Luton actually sign a couple of players at the start of the season? They did with the object of strengthening the team (Ross Barkley for example),not as investments, which by the way hasn't really worked for us. We had a team in the making last season. Against Arssnal at home we had one starter from that team.

I find it difficult to believe that team spirit, such as Luton have plenty of, can be generated in one season with the number of signings we've made.

[123EasyasBFC]

This is the strangest defence of a player I have ever seen.

Muric was the reason we lost today. It’s really as simple as that. We have the benefit of hindsight, his mistake cost us the game.

It’s not a defence at all, he made a mistake but that isn’t the reason we lost, we had 50 minutes to get something from the game.

So by your argument assignon is the reason we only draw to Chelsea because he conceded the penalty and they scored from it, or is muric to blame for not saving the penalty.

You are one of those posters who had been very quiet since Trafford had been dropped and couldn’t wait to jump on muric today

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s not a defence at all, he made a mistake but that isn’t the reason we lost, we had 50 minutes to get something from the game.

So by your argument assignon is the reason we only draw to Chelsea because he conceded the penalty and they scored from it, or is muric to blame for not saving the penalty.

You are one of those posters who had been very quiet since Trafford had been dropped and couldn’t wait to jump on muric today

I literally couldn’t care less who is in goal. Neither are up to scratch.

Off course he’s the reason we lost, it’s really simple his mistake was the reason we conceded.

Anything else is just conjecture from yourseld

[123EasyasBFC]

I literally couldn’t care less who is in goal. Neither are up to scratch.

Off course he’s the reason we lost, it’s really simple his mistake was the reason we conceded.

Anything else is just conjecture from yourseld

Again I’ll ask you is assignon the reason we didn’t beat Chelsea then because that’s the exact same argument.

You cannot put the sole blame on muric when we had more than enough time to change the game.

You was very vocal at the start of the season saying Trafford was better than muric and it has been proved he really isn’t. First mistake he makes you jump straight on here

[Newcastleclaret93]

Again I’ll ask you is assignon the reason we didn’t beat Chelsea then because that’s the exact same argument.

You cannot put the sole blame on muric when we had more than enough time to change the game.

You was very vocal at the start of the season saying Trafford was better than muric and it has been proved he really isn’t. First mistake he makes you jump straight on here

Assignon was a massive reason we didn’t get the result and yes probably the deciding factor.

Muric was solely to blame for today. How you can argue otherwise is nothing short of bias.

If I’m honest I think Trafford will have the better career. But ultimately I just don’t care. Don’t really like either of them. I just know Muric is not the answer he’s always been a liability.

[wilks_bfc]

I find it difficult to believe that team spirit, such as Luton have plenty of, can be generated in one season with the number of signings we've made.

Bombing out half the squad that worked, played & fought for each other last season and was so successful is the biggest issue I have.

Yes it worked the first season, but it needed to be done then, To try and do the same again this season was just madness

[123EasyasBFC]

Assignon was a massive reason we didn’t get the result and yes probably the deciding factor.

Muric was solely to blame for today. How you can argue otherwise is nothing short of bias.

If I’m honest I think Trafford will have the better career. But ultimately I just don’t care. Don’t really like either of them. I just know Muric is not the answer he’s always been a liability.

So muric is a massive reason we lost the game because he cost a goal the exact same why assignon did. But he’s not solely to blame, the blame falls on the whole team for not being good enough to get anything out of the game at 0-0 and 1-0 down

It’s not bias at all, you cannot put a player solely to blame and use the fact you have the benefit on hindsight. If it’s 0-0 at half time there is no guarantee we win lose or draw the game.

Likewise with VAR decisions that go against you, there’s nothing guarantee in the games that it’s gone against us that we get the results bar the Luton at home one because it’s last kick of the game.

On Tuesday had the ref spotted it wasn’t a foul on ait-nouri and we go in 1-0 at half time, there’s no guarantee we win the game so that decision isn’t the reason we drew the game, the reason we drew the game is because we weren’t good enough

[boatshed bill]

Bombing out half the squad that worked, played & fought for each other last season and was so successful is the biggest issue I have.

Yes it worked the first season, but it needed to be done then, To try and do the same again this season was just madness

Yes, we've had far too much player turnover.
I wonder whose policy it was though. There seems to be a plan of sorts, but it's clearly not working on the pitch.

[Woonderbah]

I think if you look past Muric's mistake then we draw that game nil nil because no-one was going to score otherwise.. and a draw still wasn't good enough in a must win game.. Two poor teams playing in difficult conditions but we didn't exactly keep Pickford busy

[Bigbopper]

We lost by the only goal of the game, the goal was the fault of Muric , Muric lost us the game.

[Woodleyclaret]

Trafford has lost us over a dozen games

[Dark Cloud]

I'm as much a Muric guy as anyone and I was tearing my hair out (well bald scalp actually) because VK had some weird and miss placed loyalty to Trafford for so long. I've been absolutely delighted to see Muric getting the gig at long last and he's been excellent, but let's be honest here, he cost us the game today unfortunately.

[helmclaret]

My view today - probably for the best in the end…

[Rick_Muller]

Muric DID NOT cost us the game today. It was serious bad luck that the ball ended up in the net. 99 times out of 100 that does not go in. Muric is expected to play in that manner, I would and will argue that others in the back line didn't find enough space in time for Muric to make the pass in time, which leads him to get closed down. Take that, along with the fact it was a mere fluke that it ended up in the net and then combine that with the fact we were actually in control of large parts of the game you must be real dense to suggest that one moment of a fluke cost us the game.

It could be argued that O'Shea cost us the game too, but again that was harsh being sent off for a challenge on the half way line. I said further up the thread that the Tarkowski and Andre Gomez challenges were worse that O'Shea's, but for some reason the ref concluded he was the last man and stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity (OK then!) and then sent him off, which was the only poor decision from the ref all game IMO.

[PremierLeagueClass]

Muric DID NOT cost us the game today. It was serious bad luck that the ball ended up in the net. 99 times out of 100 that does not go in. Muric is expected to play in that manner, I would and will argue that others in the back line didn't find enough space in time for Muric to make the pass in time, which leads him to get closed down. Take that, along with the fact it was a mere fluke that it ended up in the net and then combine that with the fact we were actually in control of large parts of the game you must be real dense to suggest that one moment of a fluke cost us the game.

It could be argued that O'Shea cost us the game too, but again that was harsh being sent off for a challenge on the half way line. I said further up the thread that the Tarkowski and Andre Gomez challenges were worse that O'Shea's, but for some reason the ref concluded he was the last man and stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity (OK then!) and then sent him off, which was the only poor decision from the ref all game IMO.

Muric cost us the game. Simple as that. Inexcusable at any level.

[Steddyman]

All is dross

[Rick_Muller]

Muric cost us the game. Simple as that. Inexcusable at any level.

I respect your incorrect opinion

[123EasyasBFC]

Muric cost us the game. Simple as that. Inexcusable at any level.

How is it inexcusable, he does something that 99 times out of 100 nothing comes to it, it’s a freak goal not an inexcusable error

[Rileybobs]

Muric DID NOT cost us the game today.

It obviously did. I can't quite believe anyone can suggest otherwise. It is the clearest error leading to a goal that we have conceded all season. The bonkers thing is that there were 10 seconds of the half to play and he was trying to thread a ball through a crowd to Odobert

Muric has done well since getting into the team and our performances until today have generally been better for it, but there's no hiding away from the impact that mistake had on today's result.

[123EasyasBFC]

It obviously did. I can't quite believe anyone can suggest otherwise. It is the clearest error leading to a goal that we have conceded all season. The bonkers thing is that there were 10 seconds of the half to play and he was trying to thread a ball through a crowd to Odobert

Muric has done well since getting into the team and our performances until today have generally been better for it, but there's no hiding away from the impact that mistake had on today's result.

In my opinion the error is just a factor in losing the game and the decision making to try the pass to start with is terrible, abit like when Trafford plays the ball to brownhill at palace when he had a simple pass to Taylor wide or when O’Shea played a criminal pass into Berge at wolves away. You could even argue O’Shea going so tight to ait-nouri on Tuesday with 30 seconds left of first half, as Newcastle tried to say with the beauty of hindsight.

If we are honest it’s been damage limitations since Luton at home

[Rileybobs]

In my opinion the error is just a factor in losing the game and the decision making to try the pass to start with is terrible, abit like when Trafford plays the ball to brownhill at palace when he had a simple pass to Taylor wide or when O’Shea played a criminal pass into Berge at wolves away. You could even argue O’Shea going so tight to ait-nouri on Tuesday with 30 seconds left of first half, as Newcastle tried to say with the beauty of hindsight.

If we are honest it’s been damage limitations since Luton at home

Yes but the error literally resulted in the goal that we lost the game by.

[123EasyasBFC]

Yes but the error literally resulted in the goal that we lost the game by.

As I have said though we lost the game because we didn’t score not just because muric made an error.

We beat Brentford 2-1 because we scored 2 goals not because muric stopped one of the line or made a 1on1 save from wissa

[Rileybobs]

As I have said though we lost the game because we didn’t score not just because muric made an error.

We beat Brentford 2-1 because we scored 2 goals not because muric stopped one of the line or made a 1on1 save from wissa

Well yes, but if we didn’t concede the goal, and also didn’t score, we would have drawn the game. It’s quite weird that this is even a debate.

[123EasyasBFC]

Well yes, but if we didn’t concede the goal, and also didn’t score, we would have drawn the game. It’s quite weird that this is even a debate.

But it’s easy to say that, there is no guarantee that we don’t concede in the second half, doesn’t need to be a debate, I just don’t think muric is the sole reason we lost the game

[Rileybobs]

But it’s easy to say that, there is no guarantee that we don’t concede in the second half, doesn’t need to be a debate, I just don’t think muric is the sole reason we lost the game

Yes. Equally we don’t know that we wouldn’t have won 5-0 had Muric not made that mistake. But these are hypotheticals. The fact is that we lost the game by a single goal and the single goal was a big mistake.

[123EasyasBFC]

Yes. Equally we don’t know that we wouldn’t have won 5-0 had Muric not made that mistake. But these are hypotheticals. The fact is that we lost the game by a single goal and the single goal was a big mistake.

So if muric is a fault for the lose today he’s the sole reason we beat Brentford then for stopping the one off the line?

[Rileybobs]

So if muric is a fault for the lose today he’s the sole reason we beat Brentford then for stopping the one off the line?

No.

[123EasyasBFC]

No.

How does that work then, if muric directly made an error that resulted in a goal he’s sole to blame. But when he directly stops a goal which wouldn’t have meant we wouldn’t have won’t the game he isn’t the reason we won the game.

People can’t have it both ways

[Rileybobs]

How does that work then, if muric directly made an error that resulted in a goal he’s sole to blame. But when he directly stops a goal which wouldn’t have meant we wouldn’t have won’t the game he isn’t the reason we won the game.

People can’t have it both ways

There's no point keep going round in circles. But if you can't see the difference between an error today and a fairly regulation save, albeit a well executed one, and the relative context of each incident in their respective games then this is pointless.

And FWIW, I didn't say that he was solely to blame for the defeat.

[123EasyasBFC]

There's no point keep going round in circles. But if you can't see the difference between an error today and a fairly regulation save, albeit a well executed one, and the relative context of each incident in their respective games then this is pointless.

And FWIW, I didn't say that he was solely to blame for the defeat.

I wouldn’t call the clearance off the line from a poor O’Shea back pass as a regulation save, the clearance stopped a clear goal

[Rileybobs]

I wouldn’t call the clearance off the line from a poor O’Shea back pass as a regulation save, the clearance stopped a clear goal

Yes, all saves stop clear goals though, that’s what goalkeepers are there for. It was a good clearance but one I would expect him to make. He’s made better saves since coming back into the side, even in that game.

[123EasyasBFC]

Yes, all saves stop clear goals though, that’s what goalkeepers are there for. It was a good clearance but one I would expect him to make. He’s made better saves since coming back into the side, even in that game.

Not all saves stop goals at all, sometimes keepers make saves when the ball is going wide or going to hit the woodwork.

I’m not trying to argue with you I just don’t think it muric is solely to blame today but at the end of the day whatever the result would have been today it wouldn’t of made a difference

[aclaretinstevenage]

Just watching EFL highlights and Leicester keeper made the same balls up as Muric in their match against Brum and the Stevenage keeper did the same in a 1-0 defeat at Exeter.

It's not a full moon weekend is it. Bl***y goalkeepers thinking they're footballers!

[Woodleyclaret]

When the dust has settled and season analysis occurs we will see some signings just didn't work
VKs obsession with getting Tressor,Ramsey a poor buy forget his injury. Trafford never good enough for the PL .Throwing out Cork, Benny, JBG,Jayrod,Zaroury and Muric all contributed along with not getting in Tella.

[burnleymik]

That second half was one of the worst I have seen in a long time. We were in a no lose situation and there was no desire from too many of the players.

Odobert might be skillful, but he is far too weak and sloppy with the simple things. I felt for Cullen because everytime the ball was recycled to him, he looks up and everyone is static. No movement, no one wanting the ball, I saw him turn his palms upwards in frustration and felt the same.

On the other side you see Dwight McNeil running his absolute socks off and chasing everything down, pretty much solo. Shame we didn't have anyone with the same desire for our team.