Noticed it for quite a while but he's one of the only players in the prem I have noticed who has to constantly look down to know where the ball is when it's at his feet.

Does some great work at times but surely his lack of awareness when he's in possession has to be a massive factor of how much he ends up fumbling balls etc... Especially under pressure.

Even more so when we rely in passing the ball around - we were spoilt a bit last season with defenders who looked happy to carry the ball about and pass quickly (obviously against weaker opposition most of the time).

Championship standard at best.

Yep - it's the small details like that, that separate the good and the great players.

He definitely has a good long range pass on him but absolutely not suited to playing out through the lines with the sort of short & intricate passing/receiving ball skills needed.

Should this have been a red card? I haven’t read the match thread so not sure if discussed there. But on the feed I watched it seemed like the ball was comfortably going to reach Muric before McNeil had a chance to get to it. I could be completely wrong given I only saw it from a limited angle.

He'll be ok for us next season.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:30 pm

Should this have been a red card? I haven’t read the match thread so not sure if discussed there. But on the feed I watched it seemed like the ball was comfortably going to reach Muric before McNeil had a chance to get to it. I could be completely wrong given I only saw it from a limited angle.

Definite red for me.

Regardless of him being last man, I thought it was a high and dangerous lunge anyway.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:32 pm

Definite red for me.

Regardless of him being last man, I thought it was a high and dangerous lunge anyway.

Possibly. Was he sent off for that or denial of clear goalscoring opportunity though? The challenge didn’t look dangerous, although it was high.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:30 pm

Should this have been a red card? I haven’t read the match thread so not sure if discussed there. But on the feed I watched it seemed like the ball was comfortably going to reach Muric before McNeil had a chance to get to it. I could be completely wrong given I only saw it from a limited angle.

Agreed. Mcneil was never getting there. It was such a bad mistake that we just looked too embarrassed to argue it.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:30 pm

Should this have been a red card? I haven’t read the match thread so not sure if discussed there. But on the feed I watched it seemed like the ball was comfortably going to reach Muric before McNeil had a chance to get to it. I could be completely wrong given I only saw it from a limited angle.

I thought at first, muric is clearly getting there but I think the argument is that if O’Shea doesn’t make the tackle McNeil doesn’t take the heavy touch and is clean through. If that’s at the other end I’m asking for a red card.

Inconsistency still stands, Tarky should have been booked for a foul on esteve and then a minute later gets booked for one on Odobert.

Yeah it was a shin height lunge with no attempt to get the ball. Red all day for that.

Too questionable for it to have been given for last man if his foot was down, could have just been a yellow at that rate.

Either way, he has certainly been one of more improved signings and I'll give him credit for that. But like Vitinihno, Championship is probably his ceiling.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:47 pm

I thought at first, muric is clearly getting there but I think the argument is that if O’Shea doesn’t make the tackle McNeil doesn’t take the heavy touch and is clean through. If that’s at the other end I’m asking for a red card.

Inconsistency still stands, Tarky should have been booked for a foul on esteve and then a minute later gets booked for one on Odobert.

Good point, I suppose the question then is does O’Shea’s challenge cause McNeil to take the heavy touch.

I doubt that Tarks would have made the second challenge had he been booked, but it’s still a valid point. The first challenge was clearly worthy of a yellow card, and then he wouldn’t have been able to cynically prevent Odobert from breaking through which would have led to a chance.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:47 pm

I thought at first, muric is clearly getting there but I think the argument is that if O’Shea doesn’t make the tackle McNeil doesn’t take the heavy touch and is clean through. If that’s at the other end I’m asking for a red card.

Inconsistency still stands, Tarky should have been booked for a foul on esteve and then a minute later gets booked for one on Odobert.

At last somebody noticed that Tarks should clearly have been sent off Shocking by Oliver

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:49 pm

Good point, I suppose the question then is does O’Shea’s challenge cause McNeil to take the heavy touch.

I doubt that Tarks would have made the second challenge had he been booked, but it’s still a valid point. The first challenge was clearly worthy of a yellow card, and then he wouldn’t have been able to cynically prevent Odobert from breaking through which would have led to a chance.

Correct

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:49 pm

Good point, I suppose the question then is does O’Shea’s challenge cause McNeil to take the heavy touch.

I doubt that Tarks would have made the second challenge had he been booked, but it’s still a valid point. The first challenge was clearly worthy of a yellow card, and then he wouldn’t have been able to cynically prevent Odobert from breaking through which would have led to a chance.

That’s the decision the ref has to make, McNeil is lucky it’s in our half.

That’s true Tarky was able to make the second challenge because he wasn’t booked for the first

A player I would drop in a heartbeat.

Elbarad wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:17 pm

A player I would drop in a heartbeat.

Luckily for you he will be missing for next 3 games at least

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:37 pm

Luckily for you he will be missing for next 3 games at least

is that definite? If he got sent off for DOGSO then it'll only be a 1 match ban, no?

distortiondave wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:43 pm

is that definite? If he got sent off for DOGSO then it'll only be a 1 match ban, no?

Just assumed straight red is 3 match ban but it could well be 1

He has improved, and credit for that, but the difference between who we tried to sign across the team and who we actually signed is a huge gulf. O’Shea epitomises that (it was only a yellow card for me today but he also got turned earlier by DCL badly).

I’d say only Berge, Amdouni and Tresor fit the quality required of a summer signing, and they have shown their previous abilities often, sometimes and rarely in that order of names. For all other positions a thread like this could be started.

So really recruitment is the thing where we fell down last summer in hindsight.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:46 pm

He has improved, and credit for that, but the difference between who we tried to sign across the team and who we actually signed is a huge gulf. O’Shea epitomises that.

I’d say only Berge, Amdouni and Tresor fit the quality required, and they have shown their previous abilities often, sometimes and rarely in that order. For all other positions a thread like this could be started.

So really recruitment is the thing where we fell down last summer in hindsight.

You say only Berge, Amdouni and Tresor fit the quality required, Odobert and Larsen have both shown more quality than Amdouni and Tresor this season on a regular basis. Amdouni had more than enough opportunities. Tresor hasn’t been given a chance tbf to him.

I don't know how anyone can say Tresor fits the quality required.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:46 pm

He has improved, and credit for that, but the difference between who we tried to sign across the team and who we actually signed is a huge gulf. O’Shea epitomises that (it was only a yellow card for me today but he also got turned earlier by DCL badly).

I’d say only Berge, Amdouni and Tresor fit the quality required of a summer signing, and they have shown their previous abilities often, sometimes and rarely in that order of names. For all other positions a thread like this could be started.

So really recruitment is the thing where we fell down last summer in hindsight.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for that, Crosspool. That's really cheered me up after watching the highlights back. Tresor fits the required quality. Brilliant. Just brilliant.

I think he has got better as the season has gone on. Scored 2 great headers and shows he is maturing. He is rapid also to be fair. Hope he continues to develop, would like to see Beyer in there with Esteve in his absence. Not sure how Beyer is getting on though sadly.

Will likely be Ekdal. Which I dont have a problem with. Good luck to him.

He is what he is a whole hearted bog standard Championship level centre half. Another massive mistake by Kompany.

Just seen this back on MOTD and not a denial of a goalscoring opportunity.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:35 am

Just seen this back on MOTD and not a denial of a goalscoring opportunity.

have only seen it the once only from front row upper tier of main stand and thought exactly that!
Mcneil hit the ball towards Muric!
everton bias?
Where was the flippin var??

I'm not surprised he's had an iffy season, the entire team has, confidence has been on the floor since day one for him.

One of the many new signings that haven't come to terms with the demands of the Premier League. I don't know whether he ever will but suspect he hasn't been helped by not having someone next to him on the field talking him through games.
On the incident itself I would be expecting a red card every time if I was watching another game. There is nothing to break down, the Everton player had the whole of the half to run into with no defender between him and the goal. A clear goalscoring opportunity.
The red card simply put a stamp on what was a very uncertain team performance against a very poor Everton side.

It's never a red card that, doesn't deny a goalscoring opportunity, it's just a mistimed tackle, a yellow at worst.

It's Oliver though, who consistently makes wrong big decisions because he doesn't give himself time to think about the situation. Proper toaster pocket ref.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:07 am

It's never a red card that, doesn't deny a goalscoring opportunity, it's just a mistimed tackle, a yellow at worst.

It's Oliver though, who consistently makes wrong big decisions because he doesn't give himself time to think about the situation. Proper toaster pocket ref.

Certainly not denying a goal scoring opportunity. And the challenge itself was a yellow. Oliver couldn't wait to brandish the red.

Sorry ,but I christened him 'O SH%TE months back!!!

oswyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:14 am

Sorry ,but I christened him 'O SH%TE months back!!!

And it wasn't funny months ago.

Hero at Chelsea. Zero at Everton.
That’s how quickly players get judged by their own fans…

oswyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:14 am

Sorry ,but I christened him 'O SH%TE months back!!!

He's far from shite. He's actually got 2 goals and 4 assists already this season which is the record in terms of goal contributions for a PL centre half. He's also our best defender and isn't someone you can accuse of being half-arsed like a few others we've signed under this manager.

Big error yesterday but he was far from alone in that respect.

I like O’Shea. He’s a bit raw but he’s got a good mentality and aggression. There’s plenty of other players I’d be calling out before him.

oswyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:14 am

Sorry ,but I christened him 'O SH%TE months back!!!

Hahaha really original that, well done

Vino blanco wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:26 pm

Championship standard at best.

Like the great majority of our squad

Like most of the squad he's learning at this level, and needs to be cut some slack. When you are at the top you make errors and get away with it, at the bottom you get punished.

So what did Oliver give the red for, as he would have to declare that- was it denying the goalscoring opportunity, or an endangering tackle?

He’ll be a v good champ defender , if we keep Beyer, Taylor, & Muric ( unlikely but still ) we’d have a cracking back line .
He’s a very decent CB , but no hint of Rolls Royce like a Keane or Collins , but does the basics very well, taste for goals and can pick a pass . It’s his short game which is a bit lumpy for prem level imo.

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 6:58 pm

He’ll be a v good champ defender , if we keep Beyer, Taylor, & Muric ( unlikely but still ) we’d have a cracking back line .
He’s a very decent CB , but no hint of Rolls Royce like a Keane or Collins , but does the basics very well, taste for goals and can pick a pass . It’s his short game which is a bit lumpy for prem level imo.

Collins and Rolls Royce do not belong in the same sentence.

O'Shea has been one of the better performers and made a mistake.

Quick get some planks and nails together and make a cross...

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:17 pm

Like most of the squad he's learning at this level, and needs to be cut some slack. When you are at the top you make errors and get away with it, at the bottom you get punished.

and he' up against some of the best players around every other week, tough learning curve but he will only get better as he goes along imho.

If a O’Shea with his pace and the amount of Ariel duels he wins didn’t have a mistake in him then he wouldn’t have been available to us for 7m or whatever it was. Bit like muric and Trafford wouldn’t have been let go by city if they were flawless keepers

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:48 pm

You say only Berge, Amdouni and Tresor fit the quality required, Odobert and Larsen have both shown more quality than Amdouni and Tresor this season on a regular basis. Amdouni had more than enough opportunities. Tresor hasn’t been given a chance tbf to him.

Only just spotted this reply but what I mean was pedigree at the point of signing. All were full internationals for Norway, Switzerland and Belgium and had lofty reputations. I then went on to say since signing Tresor has shown those qualities rarely (but has on brief occasions).

The point being, we seemed to want to sign 9-10 with this pedigree but only managed 3. That was the failure.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 8:06 pm

Only just spotted this reply but what I mean was pedigree at the point of signing. All were full internationals for Norway, Switzerland and Belgium and had lofty reputations. I then went on to say since signing Tresor has shown those qualities rarely (but has on brief occasions).

The point being, we seemed to want to sign 9-10 with this pedigree but only managed 3. That was the failure.

Ahh that’s fair enough yes pedigree wise tresor would of been the marquee signing of the summer, there was always something about him I thought didn’t fit or we didn’t need, the lack of tella replacement. Tella had pace to burn, an excellent touch and great work ethic off the ball, simply didn’t replace him or even better sign him perm.

If we are doing loan signings again in the summer we need to try and get deals like Beyer, options to buy to not leave ourselves in the same situation

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 7:02 pm

Collins and Rolls Royce do not belong in the same sentence.

Pretty good on the ball , but he does maybe have too many mistakes in him.

I've just watched the match replay.
Can't see the difference between these fouls: Gomez on Odobert, Tarkowski on Esteve, and the O'Shea sending off incident.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:29 pm

I've just watched the match replay.
Can't see the difference between these fouls: Gomez on Odobert, Tarkowski on Esteve, and the O'Shea sending off incident.

The difference is O'Shea plays for Burnley, ergo its a Red Card