Relegation

[ClaretPete001]

Have you online links to:

Auditors saying we can't afford to keep this squad if relegated

The player's having to take 50% pay cuts

https://media-cdn.incrowdsports.com/bc7 ... 9f58f8.pdf

[ClaretPete001]

Sheff Utd and Luton. For reasons already said - I think we'll be better than both next season.

To anyone thinking we'll be closer to the relegation zone than the top - give your head a wobble. Look at where Leicester, Leeds and Southampton are in the table. The gulf between the Prem and Championship is massive as we've found out. That works both ways. We've been worse than most this year, but we'll be better than most in that league next year. Just got to make it count.

Luton will go down in a much better financial position than we are .....! They will only lose players if those players want to leave.

They are in the same kind of position as we were when we went down with Dyche in 2014/15.

Sheffield United have all kinds of issues. The chaos at Everton/Forest if they are relegated would probably be a better bet than Luton. Both could also face additional points deductions.

[Woodleyclaret]

Win on Saturday and our chances of staying up increase. Loose and we've got a problem but we've got it all to play for if VK picks a team to win not merely contain as at Goodison.

[AGENT_CLARET]

So you don't think players will ask to leave? Odobert, Koleosho, Berge etc get premier league or top European league offers and they'll turn it down to stay at Burnley?
A lot want to leave it's been stated on here by several people even CT.
Look at the finances then look at the drop in revenue upon relegation it's doesn't take a mathematician to work it out!
We have to sell whether we stay up or go down this season, how many we sell depends on the league

They can ask all they want but they all have long contracts the club hold all the cards, they decide if the player goes not the player

[AGENT_CLARET]

https://media-cdn.incrowdsports.com/bc7 ... 9f58f8.pdf

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[ClaretPete001]

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Yup that's the problem right there

[ClaretPete001]

They can ask all they want but they all have long contracts the club hold all the cards, they decide if the player goes not the player

Not if there are relegation clauses in them...

[AGENT_CLARET]

Not if there are relegation clauses in them...

All ifs buts and maybes..... Like I said fake news

[bumba]

They can ask all they want but they all have long contracts the club hold all the cards, they decide if the player goes not the player

The days a football club decides are long gone, if a player wants to go they will get their move.
Our finances say we'll sell.
The club's owners said the model is to sell.
Relegation will mean we sell.

Your very naive if you believe otherwise, this squad will be ripped apart which may not be a bad thing depending who goes.

[bumba]

All ifs buts and maybes..... Like I said fake news

The club will have put relegation clauses in to the wages, certain players will have only signed with relegation clauses to sell on their side too, that's football.

[AGENT_CLARET]

The days a football club decides are long gone, if a player wants to go they will get their move.
Our finances say we'll sell.
The club's owners said the model is to sell.
Relegation will mean we sell.

Your very naive if you believe otherwise, this squad will be ripped apart which may not be a bad thing depending who goes.

The business model will be to sell for PROFIT, almost 99% aren't worth more than we bought them for, these owners won't be making massive losses on all these footballer superstars the rest of the footballing world will be chasing (sarcastic remark just incase you didn't realise it) and if you think otherwise then I think it's you that's very naive if you believe otherwise.

[AGENT_CLARET]

The business model will be to sell for PROFIT, almost 99% aren't worth more than we bought them for, these owners won't be making massive losses on all these footballer superstars the rest of the footballing world will be chasing (sarcastic remark just incase you didn't realise it) and if you think otherwise then I think it's you that's very naive if you believe otherwise.

Player's like Twine, Mcnally Brownhill will be sold for little or no profit player's like Benson or Zaroury would be priced out of a move to the championship, Premier league team's won't come in so it's European club's and do they have the money to buy them they won't go cheap compared to what's out there abroad already, then the rest unless sold for profit can want to move all they want doesn't mean they'll be sold because the owners are millionaire business men not corner shop owners

[Blyclaret]

I think this team and management could struggle next season in championship.

[Quicknick]

I think this team and management could struggle next season in championship.

I think we'll probably only be midtable.

[kenyon6923]

Next season will be interesting - will the amount of wingers be trimmed ? surely !!! some posts are comparing this team to last seasons well first we dont know which players are still going to be around come the 1st game next season so difficult to say. But the obvious start is goals - if Foster is not here or becomes unavailable for spells then somebody else needs to score at least ?? 15 goals being a central striker and who this season looks like the 19 goal Tella contributor in the championship ?

[ArmchairDetective]

Luton will go down in a much better financial position than we are .....! They will only lose players if those players want to leave.

They are in the same kind of position as we were when we went down with Dyche in 2014/15.

Sheffield United have all kinds of issues. The chaos at Everton/Forest if they are relegated would probably be a better bet than Luton. Both could also face additional points deductions.

Good point re Everton/Forest potential deductions. Still feel we'll be better than Luton next year though. Feel as though they've peaked this year and won't manage promotion again if relegated. But maybe I'm a little biased and not giving them enough credit.

[ClaretPete001]

Player's like Twine, Mcnally Brownhill will be sold for little or no profit player's like Benson or Zaroury would be priced out of a move to the championship, Premier league team's won't come in so it's European club's and do they have the money to buy them they won't go cheap compared to what's out there abroad already, then the rest unless sold for profit can want to move all they want doesn't mean they'll be sold because the owners are millionaire business men not corner shop owners

AGENT TRUMP, if we are relegated they are planning to sell it's in a legal document written by professionals.

Who they sell is unknown but Brownhill would be a good one because his contract is likely paid up. The issue they have is that the club will lose around £50 million in broadcast revenue and some of the more expensive players payments to former clubs likely deferred so even if we make no profit on a player the club may have to sell for cashflow reasons.

I know you don't understand any of this but at least accept that when auditors write on legal document that the club is planning to sell - the club is planning to sell.

[bumba]

The business model will be to sell for PROFIT, almost 99% aren't worth more than we bought them for, these owners won't be making massive losses on all these footballer superstars the rest of the footballing world will be chasing (sarcastic remark just incase you didn't realise it) and if you think otherwise then I think it's you that's very naive if you believe otherwise.

You couldn't be more wrong, are you aware that transfer payments are split over a players contract?
We are in massive debt now once relegated we won't have any finances to pay these payments unless we sell, never mind waiting for profit if we break even it'll be a good deal to get rid of some debt.
You mention players like Benson but after a season on the bench it's unlikely we'd demand anywhere over £5 million for him IF that so a European club will likely pay it or he may get loaned out just to get his wages off the bill.

[bumba]

Player's like Twine, Mcnally Brownhill will be sold for little or no profit player's like Benson or Zaroury would be priced out of a move to the championship, Premier league team's won't come in so it's European club's and do they have the money to buy them they won't go cheap compared to what's out there abroad already, then the rest unless sold for profit can want to move all they want doesn't mean they'll be sold because the owners are millionaire business men not corner shop owners

The owners don't have any of their own money in the club they've put zero in, they can't put anything in because they don't have it, business men yes but they're using our club funds.
Brownhill is out of contract I doubt we'll even renew his deal if relegated so we get ZERO for him.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Bumba, ClaretPete001 let's see come the end of the summer transfer window and see if your predicted fire sale happens

[Paul Waine]

I know you don't understand any of this but at least accept that when auditors write on legal document that the club is planning to sell - the club is planning to sell.

Just this bit, Pete.

You are misreading BDO's "material uncertainty" note that they've included in their audit report. The most important thing is that they have signed an audit report that is not qualified. BDO confirm that "going concern" is the "true and fair" basis for the accounts.

Yes, they've highlighted an area of risk. This risk is the risk that bank debt would have to be repaid on relegation. The accounts were signed off on 23rd December. A couple of weeks later the club executed a new "facility agreement" with MGG. of course, because the accounts have already been signed off there is nothing in the accounts about the MGG facility. A "pound to a penny" this new borrowing has replaced the bank debt and there no longer is an obligation to repay bank debt on relegation. So, "material uncertainty" has already been dealt with by the club.

[ClaretPete001]

Bumba, ClaretPete001 let's see come the end of the summer transfer window and see if your predicted fire sale happens

To be fair, you asked the question who said the club was going to sell. And I answered it.

So, let's differentiate between what has been said and what has not been said. Do I think the club will sell - Yes is that based upon evidence - Yes...!

Do I think there will be a fire sale - Yes, if the club can get rid of the players. Is that based upon evidence - No. I know the club is planning to sell based upon evidence and I know it is is because of cash flow issues but I don't know for certain there will be a fire sale.

Where I agree with you is that the players will be hard to shift and if you believe the auditors that could cause the club a lot of issues. So, both scenarios bring their own problems. C'est la vie I'm afraid.

[ClaretPete001]

Just this bit, Pete.

You are misreading BDO's "material uncertainty" note that they've included in their audit report. The most important thing is that they have signed an audit report that is not qualified. BDO confirm that "going concern" is the "true and fair" basis for the accounts.

Yes, they've highlighted an area of risk. This risk is the risk that bank debt would have to be repaid on relegation. The accounts were signed off on 23rd December. A couple of weeks later the club executed a new "facility agreement" with MGG. of course, because the accounts have already been signed off there is nothing in the accounts about the MGG facility. A "pound to a penny" this new borrowing has replaced the bank debt and there no longer is an obligation to repay bank debt on relegation. So, "material uncertainty" has already been dealt with by the club.

The original point was: is there any evidence and I pointed to it. We don't know the ins and outs of the finances to the extent that we know whether the material uncertainty has been dealt with...!

I doubt it very much it has and the intention to sell still exists. There is also a note to the accounts that over £40 million worth of expenditure had a fallen outside the scope of the accounts. I don't want this to descend into a discussion about the accounts.

My point is that if you are going to use the term 'fake news' then using it to describe an auditors report is not fair to those who do the work to uncover this stuff (not me) and those who want to read a forum that reasonably affects reality.

[Hipper]

How many said exactly this about Barnes last time round? Didn't do too bad for us though did he?

Barnes was pretty awful to start with - the old Barnes always falling over etc.. However, and surely to the credit of VK and the coaching staff (see, they can actually do it) he improved considerably after cutting out all the crap and starting to play with the quality we know he has.

The thing is though, this season VK's coaching team don't seem to have been able to repeat their magic. Perhaps this is because they needed to work on absolutely everyone individually and couldn't do it - or the players are simply not good enough.

[Goobs]

Barnes was pretty awful to start with - the old Barnes always falling over etc.. However, and surely to the credit of VK and the coaching staff (see, they can actually do it) he improved considerably after cutting out all the crap and starting to play with the quality we know he has.

The thing is though, this season VK's coaching team don't seem to have been able to repeat their magic. Perhaps this is because they needed to work on absolutely everyone individually and couldn't do it - or the players are simply not good enough.

Yes but next season we will he playing at a level far below the one we are currently at where many of our players are certainly good enough if not the best in the league and Jay is definitely good enough IMO.

[Paul Waine]

The original point was: is there any evidence and I pointed to it. We don't know the ins and outs of the finances to the extent that we know whether the material uncertainty has been dealt with...!

I doubt it very much it has and the intention to sell still exists. There is also a note to the accounts that over £40 million worth of expenditure had a fallen outside the scope of the accounts. I don't want this to descend into a discussion about the accounts.

My point is that if you are going to use the term 'fake news' then using it to describe an auditors report is not fair to those who do the work to uncover this stuff (not me) and those who want to read a forum that reasonably affects reality.

Hi Pete, the auditor's report is in the accounts. You are the one who has mentioned the "material uncertainty" statement the auditor has included in their audit report. I assume that's the evidence wish to point to as evidence of player sales in the summer transfer window. It appears you are the one who has introduced the accounts into this discussion.

Yes, the accounts also mention £40 million, or so, of additional player purchases committed last summer and occurred after 31st July 2023. There's no doubt that all the cashflow items occurring after 31st July and up to and including the date the accounts were signed off, 23rd December 2023, are taken into account in BDO's statement.

I'm not sure where the "fake news" you mention above arises, I've not used that term. Yes, the auditor's report is reality, including the "clean" audit opinion. So is the new facility agreement that we know was executed with MGG Lux SV a few days after the accounts were signed off and is evidenced by the charge filed at Companies House.

[Corway]

Wow I bet your fun at a party

Lol
Hi TP
At 77 my party days are long gone.