Relegation

[AGENT_CLARET]

Out of the possible team's that could go down with us who are the other two along with ourselves you'd want

For me it's got to be Luton and Sheffield United, Forest, Brentford and Everton would probably go straight back up making it difficult for us to take one of the automatic place's

[bumba]

With another fire sale and the massive clean up from this season cock up I don't think it matters who comes down with us, we'll have done very well if we make the play offs

[HunterST_BFC]

We might be knackered next year...

Players won't join (given lack of pitch time given to those signed before)

We'll lose anyone sellable... (most sellable players are near contract end... so low)
Plus some will be ended / not extended.

And we're left with what we have left... plus a couple of signings. plus Some loans.

Unless there really is a Plan?....

But...
"Plan" the Word.
The now meaningless words we here everyday day is/are "A Plan".

Oh
(& Vinny may be gone by November)

[Hibsclaret]

Don’t mind. We’ll probably break Reading’s record next season so it won’t matter.

[MDWat]

We might be knackered next year...

Players won't join (given lack of pitch time given to those signed before)

We'll lose anyone sellable... (most sellable players are near contract end... so low)
Plus some will be ended / not extended.

And we're left with what we have left... plus a couple of signings. plus Some loans.

Unless there really is a Plan?....

But...
"Plan" the Word.
The now meaningless words we here everyday day is/are "A Plan".

Oh
(& Vinny may be gone by November)

Most sellable players are at contract end?!

[bfcjg]

To the OP I agree, Luton and Sheffield, however Luton remind me slightly of Brentford, new stadium being built, well run club with a successful game plan so they will be up there I would have thought. Sheffield are in a bit of a mess off the field so as long as we maintain our better players get rid of the dross and fancy Dan's who don't put a shift in we might be OK. I think though it's vital we stick together, draw a line under this seasons fiasco, trust VK as we did last season and move on.

[Corway]

I don’t see us near the play offs but nearer relegation.
Our finances are in poor shape having lost £30m last year with few sellable assets and accountants warning of future problems.
Nothing coming up through the ranks to replace loanees, those out of contract or at their expiry date. Few existing players showing their true ability.
Our owners are in it for money and all that’s left will be sellable assets and parachute monies.
Pace is very quiet these days he must be worried and getting dogs abuse from JJ. Is he still in charge now holding companies are in the Channel Islands do we know who owns us?
We’ve been spending money on buying a struggling Belgian club for no obvious benefit - delusions of grandeur
We don’t seem to have a plan now the promises of moneyball computer systems Pace owned to find new talent have come to nought.
VK has lost his magic confidence and invincibility can it return??
We can only hope!

[Clovius Boofus]

I'll eat my hat if we're not at least in the playoffs. Anyhow, if I'm wrong, and we are floundering and outside of the top six come November, then VK will have to go, and I might need a new hat.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I don’t see us near the play offs but nearer relegation.
Our finances are in poor shape having lost £30m last year with few sellable assets and accountants warning of future problems.
Nothing coming up through the ranks to replace loanees, those out of contract or at their expiry date. Few existing players showing their true ability.
Our owners are in it for money and all that’s left will be sellable assets and parachute monies.
Pace is very quiet these days he must be worried and getting dogs abuse from JJ. Is he still in charge now holding companies are in the Channel Islands do we know who owns us?
We’ve been spending money on buying a struggling Belgian club for no obvious benefit - delusions of grandeur
We don’t seem to have a plan now the promises of moneyball computer systems Pace owned to find new talent have come to nought.
VK has lost his magic confidence and invincibility can it return??
We can only hope!

[AGENT_CLARET]

With another fire sale and the massive clean up from this season cock up I don't think it matters who comes down with us, we'll have done very well if we make the play offs

Why would we need a fire sale and massive clean up for the championship, this team we have now that would be playing in the championship next season is better than the one that walked it last time

[warksclaret]

We might be knackered next year...

Players won't join (given lack of pitch time given to those signed before)

We'll lose anyone sellable... (most sellable players are near contract end... so low)
Plus some will be ended / not extended.

And we're left with what we have left... plus a couple of signings. plus Some loans.

Unless there really is a Plan?....

But...
"Plan" the Word.
The now meaningless words we here everyday day is/are "A Plan".

Oh
(& Vinny may be gone by November)

In addition VK won't have the same pulling power he had 16 months ago

[GetIntoEm]

cheery bunch on here, probably same ones who predicted relegation to oblivion last year.

Absolutely we will be firm favourites to come back up, and certainly will have the best squad in that league potentially.

[mickleoverclaret]

Why would we need a fire sale and massive clean up for the championship, this team we have now that would be playing in the championship next season is better than the one that walked it last time

As per the accounts we will need to sell some players for financial reasons rather than footballing ones, although I tend to agree that we'd have a great chance of coming back up with the squad as it is now.

[kenyon6923]

Don't know why were falling for this nonsense again - plenty on here saying this season we would be comfy mid table ? based on what ? 95% of squad zero premiership experience, we signed 6 wingers for 2 places, wasted a **** load on a goalkeeper that we needed ?, a manager first time in premiership, no Tella, Matt or Harwood Bellis, except for jay no proven premiership striker but we were "certs" to be a mid table club ?

[dsr]

We might be knackered next year...

Players won't join (given lack of pitch time given to those signed before)

We'll lose anyone sellable... (most sellable players are near contract end... so low)
Plus some will be ended / not extended.

And we're left with what we have left... plus a couple of signings. plus Some loans.

Unless there really is a Plan?....

But...
"Plan" the Word.
The now meaningless words we here everyday day is/are "A Plan".

Oh
(& Vinny may be gone by November)

Players join primarily for the money. They don't look back at people who didn't get in the team and think "I'm no better than him", or at least if they do, we're probably better off without them anyway.

Who are these sellable players near the ends of their contracts? They aren't in the first team.

[GetIntoEm]

Dsr is right, any professional players number 1 need is more money, they want to earn as much as possible. If we are paying more, they'll join regardless of the pitch time. look at top players like Henderson. "legend" a Liverpool, could probably have got in most other premier league squads easily, wanted the cash.

we will remain as attractive as the size of the cheques we continue to write.

all the players that have come in so far will have had substantial pay increases.

[ksrclaret]

cheery bunch on here, probably same ones who predicted relegation to oblivion last year.

Absolutely we will be firm favourites to come back up, and certainly will have the best squad in that league potentially.

I certainly agree with you there, potentially.

[ClaretPete001]

Dsr is right, any professional players number 1 need is more money, they want to earn as much as possible. If we are paying more, they'll join regardless of the pitch time. look at top players like Henderson. "legend" a Liverpool, could probably have got in most other premier league squads easily, wanted the cash.

we will remain as attractive as the size of the cheques we continue to write.

all the players that have come in so far will have had substantial pay increases.

I'm not sure what DSR was responding to there but he usually posts to the effect that all the current squad will be facing a 50 per cent pay cut. They will all want to leave. The problem is no one will want them and even if they do they will have a lot left to pay off their contract and won't be valued much above their current price.

Hence the auditors notes to the accounts to the effect that they have a concern that player sales will not generate much cash and if they don't the club cannot be considered a going concern.

Obviously, in the Burnley fanbase fantasy bubble this is bed wetting but I can only say that if we cannot sell players then the **** will hit the bedroom fan and a soggy mattress will be the least of anyone's worries.

[NewClaret]

We might be knackered next year...

Players won't join (given lack of pitch time given to those signed before)

We'll lose anyone sellable... (most sellable players are near contract end... so low)
Plus some will be ended / not extended.

And we're left with what we have left... plus a couple of signings. plus Some loans.

Unless there really is a Plan?....

But...
"Plan" the Word.
The now meaningless words we here everyday day is/are "A Plan".

Oh
(& Vinny may be gone by November)

An absolute nonsense.

1. Players will join whoever pays them the most money. And we heard last week of a well regarded player leaving Champions League PSV to join us on a free in summer.

2. Players with any resale value are approaching the end of their contracts… who exactly? Cork & Jay? Brownhill who’s not even playing?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Got to be Forest to get one back on that angry Greek. We owe him one big time.

Yes I know it may affect things next year but some things are more important.

[TPClaret]

I don’t see us near the play offs but nearer relegation.
Our finances are in poor shape having lost £30m last year with few sellable assets and accountants warning of future problems.
Nothing coming up through the ranks to replace loanees, those out of contract or at their expiry date. Few existing players showing their true ability.
Our owners are in it for money and all that’s left will be sellable assets and parachute monies.
Pace is very quiet these days he must be worried and getting dogs abuse from JJ. Is he still in charge now holding companies are in the Channel Islands do we know who owns us?
We’ve been spending money on buying a struggling Belgian club for no obvious benefit - delusions of grandeur
We don’t seem to have a plan now the promises of moneyball computer systems Pace owned to find new talent have come to nought.
VK has lost his magic confidence and invincibility can it return??
We can only hope!

Wow I bet your fun at a party

[NewClaret]

Back to the topic.

For me Everton (barring a huge points deduction) are out of it. It’s between Luton and Forest. I think it’s best for us if Luton come down, but whoever it is, they’ll lose a lot of their core team so they’ll look far weaker than they do now regardless.

[blatherwickstattoos]

He can people think we will be near relegation next season. We’ve battered most teams around us this year just had silly mistakes and conceded at silly times. Youngest squad in the league. Youngest manager. All a learning curve and we will bounce back stronger

[ClaretPete001]

An absolute nonsense.

1. Players will join whoever pays them the most money. And we heard last week of a well regarded player leaving Champions League PSV to join us on a free in summer.

2. Players with any resale value are approaching the end of their contracts… who exactly? Cork & Jay? Brownhill who’s not even playing?

I think using the words 'absolute nonsense' and then citing a 22 year old player with 10 sub appearances with PSV is pushing the boundaries a bit.

[Paul Waine]

[quote=ClaretPete001 post_id=2314314 time=1712566599 user_id=7375

Hence the auditors notes to the accounts to the effect that they have a concern that player sales will not generate much cash and if they don't the club cannot be considered a going concern.

[/quote]

Hi Pete, don't you think the new funding facility with MGG executed in January 2024 deals with the "material concern" that BDO wrote about in December 2023?

[dsr]

I'm not sure what DSR was responding to there but he usually posts to the effect that all the current squad will be facing a 50 per cent pay cut. They will all want to leave. The problem is no one will want them and even if they do they will have a lot left to pay off their contract and won't be valued much above their current price.

Hence the auditors notes to the accounts to the effect that they have a concern that player sales will not generate much cash and if they don't the club cannot be considered a going concern.

Obviously, in the Burnley fanbase fantasy bubble this is bed wetting but I can only say that if we cannot sell players then the **** will hit the bedroom fan and a soggy mattress will be the least of anyone's worries.

I don't have an opinion on what player contracts will be worth if we go down. I think you're confusing me with someone else there.

As for the auditors, what they actually said was that if player sales don't generate much cash, the owners are confident that they will find funds from somewhere. They didn't express any opinion on whether the sales will generate cash or not; they only commented on what happens if they don't.

We'll be able to sell players IMO. Odobert will be worth a fair chunk. We would get money back on O'Shea. Berge would be worth a few million. All the bits and bobs who aren't in the team would generate cash, even if not as much as they would last year. With the help of PL parachute money and the likely reduction in wages costs, and the owners' likely attitude that it's all or nothing so we can afford to make a loss, I'd be surprised if the finances affected us badly on the field next season.

If we don't come back up, then it's a different story.

[Bowclaret]

Build a squad around Muric, Esteve, Beyer, Foster, Cullen, Benson, Berge (critical we keep him), and Koleosho and we storm the Championship. Like others have said. We are much better now than the team that walked the league last season.

[NewClaret]

I think using the words 'absolute nonsense' and then citing a 22 year old player with 10 sub appearances with PSV is pushing the boundaries a bit.

Not really.

I think it’s fairly well established that he’s a well regarded talent having represented Netherlands at every youth level from U15-U21, 46 times for PSV Jong and 30 times on loan at Rotterdam last season, plus the 10 sub appearances you mention for Champions League PSV you mention this year.

I didn’t say he was a top talent or world beater but signing him proves we’re not struggling to sign players and won’t in the summer either.

But imagine we’ll have players to sell first.

[NewClaret]

Build a squad around Muric, Esteve, Beyer, Foster, Cullen, Benson, Berge (critical we keep him), and Koleosho and we storm the Championship. Like others have said. We are much better now than the team that walked the league last season.

Absolutely agree with that. Much better. Crucial to keep Berge and play Muric though.

[claret2018]

People quickly forget how poor the standard is in the Championship. Half the teams there basically roll over for any half decent side.

[Rileybobs]

People quickly forget how poor the standard is in the Championship. Half the teams there basically roll over for any half decent side.

The standard isn't great, that's for sure. But only 2 teams win promotion automatically, and as things stand we're going down as the second best team. We have to be better than more than half the teams. We were fortunate when we walked the league that there was only really one other competitor for automatic promotion - the situation this season for example is much different with 3 teams competing for 2 places. I expect us to be towards the top of the league next season but automatic promotion certainly isn't a given.

[ClaretPete001]

I don't have an opinion on what player contracts will be worth if we go down. I think you're confusing me with someone else there.

As for the auditors, what they actually said was that if player sales don't generate much cash, the owners are confident that they will find funds from somewhere. They didn't express any opinion on whether the sales will generate cash or not; they only commented on what happens if they don't.

We'll be able to sell players IMO. Odobert will be worth a fair chunk. We would get money back on O'Shea. Berge would be worth a few million. All the bits and bobs who aren't in the team would generate cash, even if not as much as they would last year. With the help of PL parachute money and the likely reduction in wages costs, and the owners' likely attitude that it's all or nothing so we can afford to make a loss, I'd be surprised if the finances affected us badly on the field next season.

If we don't come back up, then it's a different story.

Possibly confusing you - I didn't really understand your point in relation to the post you were addressing so made the assumption.

Obviously, there is a lot of text in accounts but the auditors say there is a material uncertainty to the club going forward if forecasted revenue is not achieved (you would assume mainly relating to player sales) the company would have to achieve income from other sources. (The text is below)

I don't see any reference to being confident in that passage albeit it may exist elsewhere.

What it is essentially saying is that the club has to generate sales from players very quickly or they will likely face a cash crisis to the extent that auditors have put a material uncertainty note on the accounts.

And given the way players are bought and sold it is unclear whether the sales of those players you mention would yield much profit or cash above what we owe on them.

Material uncertainty related to going concern

We draw attention to note 2.4 to the financial statements concerning the company’s ability to continue as a going concern. Should the forecasts, which include receipts from player trading, continuation of external facilities, receipts of factored receivables and operating cost reductions, prepared by the board not be realised, the company would need to find further sources of funding in order to bridge its cash flow position until appropriate player transactions are fulfilled. As stated in note 2.4, these events or conditions indicate that a material uncertainty exists which may cast significant doubt about the company’s ability to continue as a going concern. Our opinion is not modified in respect of this matter.

In auditing the financial statements, we have concluded that the Directors’ use of the going concern basis of
accounting in the preparation of the financial statements is appropriate.

Our responsibilities and the responsibilities of the Directors with respect to going concern are described in the
relevant sections of this report.

[jlup1980]

Build a squad around Muric, Esteve, Beyer, Foster, Cullen, Benson, Berge (critical we keep him), and Koleosho and we storm the Championship. Like others have said. We are much better now than the team that walked the league last season.

I agree with what you're saying, and I think Esteve and Cullen will be part of our plans, but...
Muric - what do we do about the Trafford situation? There's no chance we're sticking a £15m GK on the bench. Far more likely we sell Muric and start Trafford in my opinion.
Beyer - can you build a team around someone who hasn't been fully fit for a whole season?
Foster - The Foster of last August and September would rip the Championship apart but there's the elephant in the room, his mental health. He's not been the same player since his return.
Benson - will he come running back when VK calls on him? He's been treated very unfairly this season so I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to leave this summer.
Berge - he won't be a Burnley player in September.

[bumba]

Why would we need a fire sale and massive clean up for the championship, this team we have now that would be playing in the championship next season is better than the one that walked it last time

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together. A lot want to leave, a lot will ask to leave, some aren't good enough.

[bobinho]

I want Everton and forest.

That won’t be happening tho…

Between Luton and forest to see who comes with us and Sheff Utd.

[boatshed bill]

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together. A lot want to leave, a lot will ask to leave, some aren't good enough.

So who wants to leave then?

[bobinho]

Don't know why were falling for this nonsense again - plenty on here saying this season we would be comfy mid table ? based on what ? 95% of squad zero premiership experience, we signed 6 wingers for 2 places, wasted a **** load on a goalkeeper that we needed ?, a manager first time in premiership, no Tella, Matt or Harwood Bellis, except for jay no proven premiership striker but we were "certs" to be a mid table club ?

So Jay is a proven PL striker? In the same way that Dwight Gayle was?

Jays finished at this level. He will also struggle at the lower level next year. Sad, but it’s a fact.

[Goobs]

So Jay is a proven PL striker? In the same way that Dwight Gayle was?

Jays finished at this level. He will also struggle at the lower level next year. Sad, but it’s a fact.

How many said exactly this about Barnes last time round? Didn't do too bad for us though did he?

[AGENT_CLARET]

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together. A lot want to leave, a lot will ask to leave, some aren't good enough.

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together - Says who ??

A lot want to leave - Again says who ??

A lot will ask to leave - another load of fake news

Some aren't good enough - I agree but these will be out of contract and will be let go anyway like Cork, Rodriguez

[mybloodisclaret]

I agree with what you're saying, and I think Esteve and Cullen will be part of our plans, but...
Muric - what do we do about the Trafford situation? There's no chance we're sticking a £15m GK on the bench. Far more likely we sell Muric and start Trafford in my opinion.
Beyer - can you build a team around someone who hasn't been fully fit for a whole season?
Foster - The Foster of last August and September would rip the Championship apart but there's the elephant in the room, his mental health. He's not been the same player since his return.
Benson - will he come running back when VK calls on him? He's been treated very unfairly this season so I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to leave this summer.
Berge - he won't be a Burnley player in September.

Take it you didn't go Villa away jlup? He was fantastic there was Foster. Just needs a run of games, i'm sure he will still be here next season and be a massive asset.

[ClaretPete001]

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together - Says who ??

A lot want to leave - Again says who ??

A lot will ask to leave - another load of fake news

Some aren't good enough - I agree but these will be out of contract and will be let go anyway like Cork, Rodriguez

1. Because we can't afford to keep this squad together - Says who ??

The auditors?

2. A lot will ask to leave - another load of fake news

They are facing 50 per cent pay cuts.

Not only will the players want to go - the club will be happy to see them go.

Unless you think audited reports are fake news. Donald Trump is probably the only the person in the world who does.

[ClaretPete001]

There, I've picked out the big words you clearly didn't read the last time I posted them about 6 posts above....

'We draw attention to note 2.4 to the financial statements concerning the company’s ability to continue as a going concern. Should the forecasts, which include receipts from player trading'

[Vegas Claret]

we will have the pick of the bunch from Chelsea and City when it comes to loans. We will fill all 5 slots and be fine.

[jlup1980]

Take it you didn't go Villa away jlup? He was fantastic there was Foster. Just needs a run of games, i'm sure he will still be here next season and be a massive asset.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a player in him. His first half dozen games of this season showed us that he has quality. He could and should be a real asset in the Championship.

However, I caveat that with the fact that he's been a Burnley player for well over a year now and, if we're being honest, we've had less than 10 decent games out of the lad. For that reason alone I wouldn't be building a team around him. There are too many question marks over his consistency and reliability.

I expect we will sign someone to replace Fofana and Jay in the summer. Whoever that is needs to be someone genuinely capable of pushing Lyle for starting games rather than a back-up.

[Colburn_Claret]

I think we will be in a better position than any of the teams that come down with us, so I couldn't care less.
That said Everton have deserved relegation for years, it would be poetic if they dropped.

[Ric_C]

Lot of water to go under the bridge between now and then, lots of decisions to make.

If we keep the core, then priorities are striker and left back

Nice to haves would be a proper number 10 and a physical defensive mid.

Main issues obviously are keeping our best players and somehow getting rid of some of our mistakes from this season

We need more energy upfront, not signing Tella was a massive mistake and we need a replacement for him. Still not convinced by Foster tbh

Ideally we need to move on the guys who are not going to progress: Obafemi, Twine, McNally etc
Then try and get rid of the ones who are not up for the fight : Tresor? Amdouni? Redmond?
Then the out of contracts, will all probably leave: Taylor, Cork, JBG, Brownhill etc

Which leaves a mixture of our core players along with some sellable assets like Odobert, Berge, Koleosho etc

So a massive rebuild again in the summer, but I'd say more of a squad trimming one than a total change.

One positive we will have is that we should have a good core of players who will know the style for 1-2 seasons now and that will be invaluable.

[ArmchairDetective]

Out of the possible team's that could go down with us who are the other two along with ourselves you'd want

Sheff Utd and Luton. For reasons already said - I think we'll be better than both next season.

To anyone thinking we'll be closer to the relegation zone than the top - give your head a wobble. Look at where Leicester, Leeds and Southampton are in the table. The gulf between the Prem and Championship is massive as we've found out. That works both ways. We've been worse than most this year, but we'll be better than most in that league next year. Just got to make it count.

[AGENT_CLARET]

1. Because we can't afford to keep this squad together - Says who ??

The auditors?

2. A lot will ask to leave - another load of fake news

They are facing 50 per cent pay cuts.

Not only will the players want to go - the club will be happy to see them go.

Unless you think audited reports are fake news. Donald Trump is probably the only the person in the world who does.

Have you online links to:

Auditors saying we can't afford to keep this squad if relegated

The player's having to take 50% pay cuts

[bumba]

So who wants to leave then?

Are you seriously that naive?
CT has already stayed on here that Roberts was desperate to get out of the club and isn't the only one.

My guess:
Rodriguez
Cork
Muric
Roberts
Weghorst
Obafemi
Benson
Zaroury
Al Dakhil
Ekdal(nearly went previous window)
Brownhill
JBG

Possible bids on Koleosho, Odobert, Foster, Berge.

Loans that may leave Tresor, Assignon and JBL.

Off the top of my head.

[bumba]

Because we can't afford to keep this squad together - Says who ??

A lot want to leave - Again says who ??

A lot will ask to leave - another load of fake news

Some aren't good enough - I agree but these will be out of contract and will be let go anyway like Cork, Rodriguez

So you don't think players will ask to leave? Odobert, Koleosho, Berge etc get premier league or top European league offers and they'll turn it down to stay at Burnley?
A lot want to leave it's been stated on here by several people even CT.
Look at the finances then look at the drop in revenue upon relegation it's doesn't take a mathematician to work it out!
We have to sell whether we stay up or go down this season, how many we sell depends on the league