So do you drop Muric after two massive costly howlers?

[deanothedino]

The team has been stronger with Muric in it.
We'll need him next week against the pub side.

Well if the keeper is the sole reason for any result as 123 seems to believe then the bar is set at 5-0 by Trafford. Let’s see Muric will us to 6 or 7.

[Woodleyclaret]

As Craig Bellamy alluded to the nonsense back passing from Berge caused the goal. But Aro pulled off two great stops late on and showed good handling from corner coming to claim crosses which Trafford seldom copes well with

[123EasyasBFC]

Well if the keeper is the sole reason for any result as 123 seems to believe then the bar is set at 5-0 by Trafford. Let’s see Muric will us to 6 or 7.

Hold on a minute we’re has there been a comment that the sole reason for a result is the keeper, like having a discussion with a child.

You out did your own logic earlier in regards to positive results and when you realised you had nothing to come back with

[123EasyasBFC]

Well if the keeper is the sole reason for any result as 123 seems to believe then the bar is set at 5-0 by Trafford. Let’s see Muric will us to 6 or 7.

It’s obvious you don’t watch games properly the fact you think we played with 10 men against West Ham

[deanothedino]

Hold on a minute we’re has there been a comment that the sole reason for a result is the keeper, like having a discussion with a child.

You out did your own logic earlier in regards to positive results and when you realised you had nothing to come back with

No, I accepted you would continue to see today as a positive result and I’ll continue to not see it as a positive result.

You heavily imply Muric is the reason we have had a few more points in the last five games by repeatedly listing the number of games and the number of points we have with each keeper as if the other 10 had no influence.

[deanothedino]

It’s obvious you don’t watch games properly the fact you think we played with 10 men against West Ham

Apologies I mixed up two games while having a meaningless debate on the internet with a complete stranger who sleeps below a poster of Arjo Muric

[123EasyasBFC]

Apologies I mixed up two games while having a meaningless debate on the internet with a complete stranger who sleeps below a poster of Arjo Muric

It’s that meaningless that you keep responding

[NL Claret]

Could only cope with flicking through a few posts, Trafford has not played for a few weeks now yet still getting drawn in for criticism, 2 mistakes by Muric have been horrific, can’t imagine the meltdown on here if Trafford had committed such poor errors as Muric has today and last Sat. All the hype that the team has been better and have more confidence with Muric is the team is a load of rubbish, the only win was against 10 for 80 minutes.Don’t think the players have the confidence in Muric anymore, back to Trafford for me, Muric is probably having already having sleepless nights thinking about last season at Bramall Lane

[123EasyasBFC]

No, I accepted you would continue to see today as a positive result and I’ll continue to not see it as a positive result.

You heavily imply Muric is the reason we have had a few more points in the last five games by repeatedly listing the number of games and the number of points we have with each keeper as if the other 10 had no influence.

The result today is still better than getting beat so it’s still positive.

Well when you only lose 1 game in 5 and the one main difference is the keeper in my opinion is fair to say muric impact is very high. In the 10 games previous I don’t think we would have lost 7 out of 10 like we did with muric in the side

[Darnhill Claret]

A lot of points made, but the majority of them, clearly agenda based. Only two posts prior to this one have pointed out that a back pass to a keeper should never be between the posts. That alone prevents the mistake resulting in a goal. Just as comments against Trafford were over the top and unnecessary, today we are having the same against Muric. How people can see the Youtube collection of Premier League goalkeeping errors and continue to lambast Muric and state that this mistake defines him as a keeper is nothing more than agenda driven.
Both keepers should be supported, because ALL keepers make errors, some of which result in goals. On that YouTube reel you will see, Ederson, Allison, Cech, Lloris, Pickford, Taibo, Foster, Enklemann and many, many others, yet continue to ignore the relevance of this as if Muric is somehow an inferior keeper based on today's showing. Until that mistake I thought his performance was very good. Yes he misplaced a few passes, but who wouldn't in today's weather conditions.
Football is not an exact science, never has been, never will be, even in today's Pep driven game of possession first.

[HahaYeah]

Shame he couldn’t take a tame back pass as well though.

Well duh.

[agreenwood]

Muric is a better goalkeeper for us than Trafford is right now. I suspect that might change as Trafford matures and gains experience.

No doubt Muric was poor today though. It wasn’t just the goal. His distribution was off.

[Neil]

A lot of points made, but the majority of them, clearly agenda based. Only two posts prior to this one have pointed out that a back pass to a keeper should never be between the posts. That alone prevents the mistake resulting in a goal. Just as comments against Trafford were over the top and unnecessary, today we are having the same against Muric. How people can see the Youtube collection of Premier League goalkeeping errors and continue to lambast Muric and state that this mistake defines him as a keeper is nothing more than agenda driven.
Both keepers should be supported, because ALL keepers make errors, some of which result in goals. On that YouTube reel you will see, Ederson, Allison, Cech, Lloris, Pickford, Taibo, Foster, Enklemann and many, many others, yet continue to ignore the relevance of this as if Muric is somehow an inferior keeper based on today's showing. Until that mistake I thought his performance was very good. Yes he misplaced a few passes, but who wouldn't in today's weather conditions.
Football is not an exact science, never has been, never will be, even in today's Pep driven game of possession first.

I have no agenda whatsoever but there's probably ten back passes a game played between the sticks.

99 times out of a hundred the keeper controls the ball with his instep and doesn't try to put his studs on it.

For a keeper who gets the praise Muric gets as a competent ball player, it would be quite inaccurate to blame Berge for expecting him to control that ball all day every day.

[kentonclaret]

Muric has made a difference to losing games, we have lost 1 in 5, the 5 before Muric came in we lost 4 in 5 and the 5 before that we lost 3 in 5, so 7 loses in the 10 before Muric came in 3 draws. 3 points in 10 games to 6 points in 5 games, so it’s clearly made a different it’s just come 28 games to late

Making comparisons such as this is just juvenile. In the series of games upon which Trafford is being judged 2 of these were against top 3 title contenders Liverpool and Arsenal. Muric is being judged on matches against a misfiring Brighton (1 win in 8 away prior to today scoring a total of just 8 goals) and an injury ravaged Wolves team without their 2 key strikers in Cunha and Neto. Muric hasn’t yet played against a side in the top 6 let alone the top 3.

[Rileybobs]

I have no agenda whatsoever but there's probably ten back passes a game played between the sticks.

99 times out of a hundred the keeper controls the ball with his instep and doesn't try to put his studs on it.

For a keeper who gets the praise Muric gets as a competent ball player, it would be quite inaccurate to blame Berge for expecting him to control that ball all day every day.

I haven’t dared watch it back yet, but that’s what I thought he had done - and if so it’s just really poor technique and an overconfidence in his ability. Even in possession he seems to do this thing where he rolls the ball one way and another with his studs rather than using the inside or outside of his boot. I can’t think of an advantage of doing this other than for aesthetic purposes - style over substance. And anyone who’s played football wearing studs knows how easily the ball can slip out of control when doing this, particularly in wet conditions.

[Neil]

I haven’t dared watch it back yet, but that’s what I thought he had done - and if so it’s just really poor technique and an overconfidence in his ability. Even in possession he seems to do this thing where he rolls the ball one way and another with his studs rather than using the inside or outside of his boot. I can’t think of an advantage of doing this other than for aesthetic purposes - style over substance. And anyone who’s played football wearing studs knows how easily the ball can slip out of control when doing this, particularly in wet conditions.

Yeah thats what he did mate.

It's just the wrong thing to do and at the wrong time. Same as last week when there was 20 seconds left in the half.

For the record, I said in the summer, prior to signing Trafford, that I would be surprised if Muric started in the prem for these reasons.

However, I welcomed the change when he was brought back in and I would stick with him for the remainder of the season.

He just needs to cut out the stupid decisions and errors which is easier said than done!

[Rileybobs]

Yeah thats what he did mate.

It's just the wrong thing to do and at the wrong time. Same as last week when there was 20 seconds left in the half.

For the record, I said in the summer, prior to signing Trafford, that I would be surprised if Muric started in the prem for these reasons.

However, I welcomed the change when he was brought back in and I would stick with him for the remainder of the season.

He just needs to cut out the stupid decisions and errors which is easier said than done!

Yes, I felt the same pre-season and also with regards to seeing the season out with Muric between the sticks. Another failing in our summer recruitment for what was an absolutely vital position.

[fidelcastro]

I haven’t dared watch it back yet, but that’s what I thought he had done - and if so it’s just really poor technique and an overconfidence in his ability. Even in possession he seems to do this thing where he rolls the ball one way and another with his studs rather than using the inside or outside of his boot. I can’t think of an advantage of doing this other than for aesthetic purposes - style over substance. And anyone who’s played football wearing studs knows how easily the ball can slip out of control when doing this, particularly in wet conditions.

Trust me, it looks even worse on TV, and yet there were people on here earlier claiming Trafford has made worse mistakes this season!

Those people really need to see it again and revise their opinions.

[BabylonClaret]

No. I thought he should have started the season and think he gives us a quicker platform with his distribution but I marked him 3 today .

I think he starts all games remaining

[deanothedino]

It’s that meaningless that you keep responding

Being meaningless doesn’t mean it isn’t entertaining

[Guller Bull]

So should we be giving Lawrence Vigouroux a chance to prove his worth?

[bobinho]

I was one that wanted Muric back in ahead of Trafford. Hand up.

I do think he suits our overall play better than Trafford and I think he's better at crosses and corners.

All that said, the prime role is to keep the ball out the net and twice in two weeks he's single-handedly been responsible for it going in. It's cost us 4 points and maybe our Premier League status.

If we hold Muric to the same standards as Trafford then yes he should be dropped. One F-Up might be excused but 2 in 2 weeks is a problem.

We do have a 3rd goalkeeper who has highly regarded. Based on what's happening I'm not sure why his name shouldn't now at least enter the conversation.

Murics two howlers may well have cost us the points you mention, but they certainly HAVEN’T cost us our PL status.

[bobinho]

Muric is a better goalkeeper for us than Trafford is right now. I suspect that might change as Trafford matures and gains experience.

No doubt Muric was poor today though. It wasn’t just the goal. His distribution was off.

It was certainly off AFTER the mistake. I watched him for quite a while afterwards and it was clear he’d been affected by it.

That then begs the question “where’s the captain?” I want to see a leader taking control and managing his players in that moment.

Anyway, Muric carries on for me. I’m sure Trafford will be a great keeper in time, but he’s raw and still has plenty to learn. Shame we no longer have Billy Mercer around….

[agreenwood]

It was certainly off AFTER the mistake. I watched him for quite a while afterwards and it was clear he’d been affected by it.

That then begs the question “where’s the captain?” I want to see a leader taking control and managing his players in that moment.

Anyway, Muric carries on for me. I’m sure Trafford will be a great keeper in time, but he’s raw and still has plenty to learn. Shame we no longer have Billy Mercer around….

I think it was off before. He knocked several passes out for thrown ins. Admittedly probably wasn’t helped by the weather, but certainly wasn’t up to the usual standards.

[123EasyasBFC]

Making comparisons such as this is just juvenile. In the series of games upon which Trafford is being judged 2 of these were against top 3 title contenders Liverpool and Arsenal. Muric is being judged on matches against a misfiring Brighton (1 win in 8 away prior to today scoring a total of just 8 goals) and an injury ravaged Wolves team without their 2 key strikers in Cunha and Neto. Muric hasn’t yet played against a side in the top 6 let alone the top 3.

Even more excuses for Trafford, that’s like saying Trafford lost to a Bournemouth team who hadn’t won in 9, a miss firing West Ham team, draw to a Fulham team missing 3 players at AFCON and Wilson, William and Jimenez. Can make arguments about every game. It’s juvenile to not be able to see how we are a better team with muric

[oswyclaret]

If Trafford would have been playing in the last 2 games and would have made the same errors as Muric,I honestly believe his career with us would have been finished!I don't think the fans would ever take to him.Muric,on the other hand, imho, is a lot better keeper and well proven between the sticks!

As a comparison, people score own goals, miss absolute sitters, stupidly get sent off, miss penalties, the list goes on..MISTAKES will always happen, when its the goalie, its multiplied 10 times over...stick with Muric,he's a good en!

[Vim Fuego]

A big NO !!

Terrible blunder yesterday but it is a time to back Muric. He makes a massive difference to the way we play and should never have lost his place. He had blunders early last season and the more he played the better he got. Talent like this needs to be allowed to grow and this lad has a high ceiling.

[warksclaret]

Forget dropping Muric, or keeping Trafford on the bench. Both of these guys have mistakes in them when you are competing in the PL. We have Muric who made one of the goal keeping gashes of the season last week, and this week he makes an even bigger clanger.Prior to these two games we had Trafford play in 28 when in the majority there have been major concerns about his ability to command his area aerially, his very slow distribution, and in the risks he takes. However what the hell is our GK coach doing-should it not be him that's dropped. Little of this would have happened under Billy mercer, or certainly not to this scale.

[JohnMac]

To be honest it makes no difference, we have two talented Keepers both prone to huge errors.

Muric keeps the game flowing though and we stand a better chance of winning another game sometime this year.

[Claretrew]

No, despite the fact that this was the worst goalkeeper error of the season I still feel he is currently our best option in goal. Better and faster distribution and command of the box. Hopefully he has learnt from today's howler.

[dsr]

Even more excuses for Trafford, that’s like saying Trafford lost to a Bournemouth team who hadn’t won in 9, a miss firing West Ham team, draw to a Fulham team missing 3 players at AFCON and Wilson, William and Jimenez. Can make arguments about every game. It’s juvenile to not be able to see how we are a better team with muric

Not much better. Not good enough to beat a poor Brighton side, or a poor Wolves side, or a poor Everton side. We were good enough to beat a poor Brentford side who had 10 men and gave us a goal start, but I suspect we would have been able to beat them with Trafford in goal too. By all means make the argument that we are better with Muric, but the idea that you are right and disagreement is childish, is taking self-confidence too far.

[IanMcL]

Muric had errors last season.

This season, his general keeping is much better and his distribution has made a vital difference. The defence is building a confidence it never had in Trafford.

Muric distribution is as good if not better than just about all of the rest of the league, bar the top two keepers.

Some striker coaching into how yo get in where it hurts, would not go amiss. Currently, the strikers are not getting into their place, early enough, if at all. Too busy looking for another pass.

That's coaching and instinct.

[warksclaret]

Muric had errors last season.

This season, his general keeping is much better and his distribution has made a vital difference. The defence is building a confidence it never had in Trafford.

Muric distribution is as good if not better than just about all of the rest of the league, bar the top two keepers.

Some striker coaching into how yo get in where it hurts, would not go amiss. Currently, the strikers are not getting into their place, early enough, if at all. Too busy looking for another pass.

That's coaching and instinct.

Ian I read the other day that only Man City have scored more goals than us outside the penalty area. It shows our forwards are not getting in to the box anticipating any passes within the area

[Ric_C]

With Muric in the team, I've actually enjoyed watching us play again (perhaps enjoy isn't the right word).

As with Trafford when he made mistakes, Muric is young, and will learn (hopefully) from mistakes like yesterday.

His commanding of the box, distribution, 1-1 saves have been top notch since returning to the team.

The goalkeeping position is the hardest to play in football (I should know) as there is no hiding place when things go wrong. This is why Trafford should have been dropped earlier, as his confidence needed time to recover.

I think we have got two good goalies, both young, both developing. Muric is the better keeper at the moment. Trafford needs to bulk out and grow, but this season should be an invaluable learning curve in his development.

Yesterday and last week were massive cock ups, but I think Muric has enough credit in the bank to not be castigated for it.

[Nonayforever]

Play Trafford one half and Muric the other & we will quickly see which half of football is the most effective.

[Colburn_Claret]

**** happens, it shouldn't but it does.
Following last week doesn't help either.
That said he offers a lot more positives to the team than Trafford, who still isn't ready for this level yet. Muric for me every day.

I thought the misses by JBL and Fofana were just as big howlers in terms of the result, but outfield players can always get away with errors, keepers never can.

[scamander]

It's as if neither keeper is the required quality needed at this level. One has the excuse of youth on his side (though traditionally young keepers are rarely a great idea). The other had a season where he played well in terms of distribution but always had a clanger about him and wasn't that great in the air (see some posts on him earlier last season). He's also older and so should be much more stable.

The bizarre fetish some people have that either is the answer continues to leave me scratching my head. Both are probably good backups albeit with their respective weak points. VK has had a very steep learning curve. I just hope he learns from it and it makes us stronger for next season.

[Goliath]

I haven’t dared watch it back yet, but that’s what I thought he had done - and if so it’s just really poor technique and an overconfidence in his ability. Even in possession he seems to do this thing where he rolls the ball one way and another with his studs rather than using the inside or outside of his boot. I can’t think of an advantage of doing this other than for aesthetic purposes - style over substance. And anyone who’s played football wearing studs knows how easily the ball can slip out of control when doing this, particularly in wet conditions.

That isn't bad technique. It's exactly what modern day players are being taught to do at the top level.

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[Goliath]

Apologies messed the link up. Not sure how to do it as a link but see below. I actually think we are overreacting to it because of last week's. I don't think this one is anywhere near as bad, he's just.let a backpass slip under his foot and because it was played directly towards goal he didn't have chance to recover it.
There's a reason people are told from a young age not to pass back between the posts.

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[CoolClaret]

That isn't bad technique. It's exactly what modern day players are being taught to do at the top level.

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https://twitter.com/TifoFootball_/status/1614925564925583365?s=19

That's different than taking a first touch with the studs; Muric does that to quickly 'tee' up the ball to deliver a rapid pass (or at least be in the position to be able to do so).

He just needs to learn that when dealing with a ball that's coming at him relatively quick when he's stood in front of his own net and the conditions are poor to perhaps take that extra, 'safe' touch.

[123EasyasBFC]

Not much better. Not good enough to beat a poor Brighton side, or a poor Wolves side, or a poor Everton side. We were good enough to beat a poor Brentford side who had 10 men and gave us a goal start, but I suspect we would have been able to beat them with Trafford in goal too. By all means make the argument that we are better with Muric, but the idea that you are right and disagreement is childish, is taking self-confidence too far.

So you agree we have been better with muric, all be it not much better?

[ecc]

I'm sorry but the howler yesterday can happen to all keepers. However awful it was, it doesn't make him a bad goalkeeper.

[It Is What It Is]

Muric, solely, has cost us 4 precious points against Everton and Brighton.
He is a good keeper but his total casualness and lack of concentration has cost us dearly.
One huge massive mistake at Everton and an even bigger one yesterday, you would expect him to at least apologise on the BFC website.
Mistakes like that are not a team collective, directly down to Muric.
I really think we are forked now.

[Stayingup]

A lot of this is down to way we play and Berge is not a defender. It's a real pity that Ekdal had to go off and we had no CB on the bench to replace him when he did. Inexcusable error from Muric.

[Rileybobs]

That isn't bad technique. It's exactly what modern day players are being taught to do at the top level.

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https://twitter.com/TifoFootball_/status/1614925564925583365?s=19

Did you watch the clip you posted below? I did, and it doesn’t even mention why players put their studs on the ball. The video is about beating a press through movement, positioning and passing - nothing to do with standing with studs on the ball.

But the poor technique I’m referring to is trapping the ball with the studs rather than the instep. I’m pretty certain that no players, at any level, particularly goalkeepers dealing with back passes towards their own goal, are being coached to trap the ball with their studs.

[Steve1956]

Yea drop him why not...nothing to play for our third keeper could be a world beater...let's have a look at him.

[Foshiznik]

Right we all know muric made an error today, last week is not an error it’s unfortunate.

It’s a very lazy view to not take into consideration all the positives muric has brought to the last 5 games. The last 5 games have resulted in our best form (as I said early not much to shout about) the games have been 100x more bearable to watch. How can anyone question kompanys decisions from week one of the season but Trafford not be one of the wrong decisions.

Thing is, most people who are criticising are just calling out the Muric apologists for their hypocrisy. For me, I would pick Muric over Trafford for the way we play at the moment but I will still call out the hypocrisy of those who absolutely slaughter Trafford for much less and ridiculously claim he’s the main reason we are getting relegated when clearly he’s not.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Thing is, most people who are criticising are just calling out the Muric apologists for their hypocrisy. For me, I would pick Muric over Trafford for the way we play at the moment but I will still call out the hypocrisy of those who absolutely slaughter Trafford for much less and ridiculously claim he’s the main reason we are getting relegated when clearly he’s not.

Yeah you are correct for me. Some people will defend Muric to the hilt, but if JT did that yesterday they would be going mental. I still want Muric to start for the next game, but I would criticise an amateur GK for that mistake, let alone a PL GK.

[Goliath]

Did you watch the clip you posted below? I did, and it doesn’t even mention why players put their studs on the ball. The video is about beating a press through movement, positioning and passing - nothing to do with standing with studs on the ball.

But the poor technique I’m referring to is trapping the ball with the studs rather than the instep. I’m pretty certain that no players, at any level, particularly goalkeepers dealing with back passes towards their own goal, are being coached to trap the ball with their studs.

Would you have commented on that if it hadn't slipped under his foot? I don't think I've seen that criticism of his technique at any point until yesterday.
Do you watch all other prem keepers to see if they ever team it with their stoods, I'm fairly sure I've seen Alisson do it regularly for example.
It just seems like a very lazy criticism that's come about because of an unfortunate slip up.

[Foshiznik]

Which West Ham game were you watching we didn’t have 10 men, if you don’t class forest and Luton as positives then that’s even less positive results in Traffords 28 games, by your logic that’s now only 6 positive results in 28 games but you’d still have him in over someone with 3 positive results in 5 games

Luton home and Forest away were 4 points dropped due to VAR. I would have thought even the most critical anti-Trafford fan (you) could at least see that.