IN YOUR OPINION WOULD HAVE...................


Made no difference

Made little difference

Made a big difference

Put it this way...
We'd have at least 5-10 more points I think

It would have made a difference slightly. Some of the tight games would probably have fallen our way more often.
We would still have take lots of battering because the structure of the team isn't sound, so will always get found out at this level

A big difference, we haven't got a finisher, Trafford set the bar low and my goodness did it it set the standard.
I think below half way,perhaps another 10-15 points.

We would probably have been Champions by the end of February.

Tella wasn't ours to keep

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 pm

A big difference, we haven't got a finisher, Trafford set the bar low and my goodness did it it set the standard.
I think below half way,perhaps another 10-15 points.

In games Muric played, he certainly cost us at least 4 points with those shocking errors, maybe more if you analyse the Wolves goal it could be 6.

NL Claret wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 10:49 pm

In games Muric played, he certainly cost us at least 4 points with those shocking errors, maybe more if you analyse the Wolves goal it could be 6.

Just look at the points saved though, he has either been Motm or very close in every game,agree though his errors have been costly but he should have started.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 10:41 pm

Tella wasn't ours to keep

I read it as we would have kept him if we had signed him.

Muric hasn't given us any extra wins IMO, whatever the team may have looked like. Could we have beaten 10-man Brentford with a goal start? Could we have beaten Sheffield United? Yes to both, IMO. Could we have scraped home draws against poor sides in Brighton and Wolves? Yes, IMO. Could we have managed draws at Chelsea and Man United, like we did at West Ham the day before? Who knows. Could we have got anything from Everton? Every chance.

Music's impact is overrated.

To say we had somebody who was on fire granted in a league below but even taking that into consideration it's a yes when by & large the firepower we have currently couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo it's not a massive leap to deduce tella would have contributed significantly.

dsr wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:14 pm

Muric hasn't given us any extra wins IMO, whatever the team may have looked like. Could we have beaten 10-man Brentford with a goal start? Could we have beaten Sheffield United? Yes to both, IMO. Could we have scraped home draws against poor sides in Brighton and Wolves? Yes, IMO. Could we have managed draws at Chelsea and Man United, like we did at West Ham the day before? Who knows. Could we have got anything from Everton? Every chance.

Music's impact is overrated.

Pure conjecture and losing the bigger picture.

The only fact is that with Traff in the net we lost 20/28 games - and without have lost 2/8.

The highest placed team that Muric has kept against over the last 8 matches is Newcastle in 6th and we got spanked 1-4.
In the 9 matches prior to Muric taking the gloves Trafford played against all of the current PL top 4. Trafford this season has done all the heavy lifting Muric won’t even keep goal against a top 4 side.

kentonclaret wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:28 pm

The highest placed team that Muric has kept against over the last 8 matches is Newcastle in 6th and we got spanked 1-4.
In the 9 matches prior to Muric taking the gloves Trafford played against all of the current PL top 4. Trafford this season has done all the heavy lifting Muric won’t even keep goal against a top 4 side.

How is that Muric’s fault? He wasn’t selected! You say Trafford has done all the ‘heavy lifting’. He did, conceded a lot of goals, and affected our play due to slow and uneven distribution. I imagine Muric would’ve loved to have done some ‘heavy lifting’ but our manager didn’t select him.

And despite our loss against Newcastle, Muric was still considered by most to be our best player.

kentonclaret wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:28 pm

The highest placed team that Muric has kept against over the last 8 matches is Newcastle in 6th and we got spanked 1-4.
In the 9 matches prior to Muric taking the gloves Trafford played against all of the current PL top 4. Trafford this season has done all the heavy lifting Muric won’t even keep goal against a top 4 side.

Why does it matter playing the current PL top 4? They win minimum 70% of their games and they're results that do not define our season, at all.

Muric is much faster at distributing the ball. This keeps the opposition guessing and taking risks. Sure, it’s also means there might be an error here and there which has been proven, but Trafford is so slow to make decisions that keeping the ball at the back starts to become a hindrance rather than a benefit. I’m sure he’ll learn and become a top player.

Undoubtedly. Tellas non signing and the money wasted on Tressor, Redmond, Ramsey, Trafford was a major factor as Tellas ability to stretch defences and score sorely missed.
Trafford's signing was the second major blunder as clearly Muric has added more stability .

Claretforever wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:50 pm

Muric is much faster at distributing the ball. This keeps the opposition guessing and taking risks. Sure, it’s also means there might be an error here and there which has been proven, but Trafford is so slow to make decisions that keeping the ball at the back starts to become a hindrance rather than a benefit. I’m sure he’ll learn and become a top player.

I’m.not so sure he will learn to be honest

Tella was a massive missed opportunity and ok he wasn’t our player … but he was available … and not much of a gamble ..: but VK got it badly wrong in his valuation of 9m … We have not got a better player IMO than Tella in our current squad

We’d have played more expansive football with Muric in nets but, as a result, conceded more IMO.

Would have been interesting to see how Muric would have reacted had he been on the end of some of the drubbings we’ve had against the top teams regularly, as I’m not unconvinced that his temperament is a bit fragile.

Im also not forgetting that Muric has had the benefit of a relatively stable team selection each week.

Little to no difference in the end, for me.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:34 pm

How is that Muric’s fault? He wasn’t selected! You say Trafford has done all the ‘heavy lifting’. He did, conceded a lot of goals, and affected our play due to slow and uneven distribution. I imagine Muric would’ve loved to have done some ‘heavy lifting’ but our manager didn’t select him.

And despite our loss against Newcastle, Muric was still considered by most to be our best player.

I think that's the point of the question.

Muric may have prevented a bigger thrashing but a thrashing it still was. The answer is Trafford or Muric - it would make no difference.

Had we bought Tella, at least VK would have had another option for the LB position.

In my opinion Trafford his a bad signing and to thrown in at the deep end in the Premier league was bad management, i just hope he can come good but he will need to go the gym and build out . Tella not to sure , yes he was great last season and he knows where the net is but we will never know if he could produce in this team . .

NO

Buxtonclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 7:42 am

Had we bought Tella, at least VK would have had another option for the LB position.

kentonclaret wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2024 11:28 pm

The highest placed team that Muric has kept against over the last 8 matches is Newcastle in 6th and we got spanked 1-4.
In the 9 matches prior to Muric taking the gloves Trafford played against all of the current PL top 4. Trafford this season has done all the heavy lifting Muric won’t even keep goal against a top 4 side.

How is the teams played a fair comparison, Trafford conceded 4 at home to Chelsea in a 4-1 loss and away from home against Chelsea we drew 2-2 with muric in goal. We lost 3-0 away to Brentford with Trafford in goal and beat them 2-1 with muric in goal. We can all try and make comparisons to suit a narrative but the harsh truth is we are 10x better with muric in the team.

Injuries haven’t been kind to us also, not having a settled back four till last ten games of season doesn’t help either

I watched Tella play in the flesh on Sunday. He looks to have come on leaps and bounds for Leverkusen. He was absolutely tormenting the left hand side of Eintracht.

Beat the full back on a number of occasions and got a dangerous ball in. Was really unlucky not to score too.

Leverkusen for me are the best team in Europe at the minute, what a move that's been for him.

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 4:42 am

Tella was a massive missed opportunity and ok he wasn’t our player … but he was available … and not much of a gamble ..: but VK got it badly wrong in his valuation of 9m … We have not got a better player IMO than Tella in our current squad

Definitely not got a better finisher than Tella, that's for sure.

We'd have easily been safe with Tella and Muric playing all season.

Clive 1960 wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 7:50 am

In my opinion Trafford his a bad signing and to thrown in at the deep end in the Premier league was bad management, i just hope he can come good but he will need to go the gym and build out . Tella not to sure , yes he was great last season and he knows where the net is but we will never know if he could produce in this team . .

Agreed it was bad management to throw him in at the deep end. But even worse management to keep him in the firing line for 28 consecutive PL games. His confidence must have been shattered with the constant analysis by pundits and analysts of his mistakes. Also when he got the ball there was no urgency, allowing the opposition to fully regroup, whereas Muric can hit a quick killer ball for our front runners.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 9:38 am

Agreed it was bad management to throw him in at the deep end. But even worse management to keep him in the firing line for 28 consecutive PL games. His confidence must have been shattered with the constant analysis by pundits and analysts of his mistakes. Also when he got the ball there was no urgency, allowing the opposition to fully regroup, whereas Muric can hit a quick killer ball for our front runners.

The only thing i can come up with is that he had to play so many games which i find unbelievable if true and like you say is confidence must be rock bottom..

not an exact science but the upturn in form since Muric came into the side is quite startling, even with the odd mistake he throws in.

Points per game

With Trafford = 0.5
With Muric = 1.25

An absolute nonsense question, Tella plays for Bayer Leverkusen.


Why are you starting topics to encourage this absolute dross non stop negativity? Like we haven’t had enough Trafford/Muric topics

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 9:38 am

We'd have easily been safe with Tella and Muric playing all season.

What about Muric and Foden?

Doesn't even have to be Tella/Muric included in the OP really.

The question really should be framed as,

"Would we have been better allocating funds in the areas of need instead of stockpiling wingers, buying a young goalkeeper and plonking him in for no reason for 28 games and expecting a young lad from the Swiss league to take to the PL as the second striker"

That's the annoying aspect. We have been the architects of our own downfall.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 11:34 am

What about Muric and Foden?

This seems a little silly. We publicly wanted to sign Tella and it's very obvious that we could have if we'd paid an appropriate amount.

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 4:42 am

Tella was a massive missed opportunity and ok he wasn’t our player … but he was available … and not much of a gamble ..: but VK got it badly wrong in his valuation of 9m … We have not got a better player IMO than Tella in our current squad

How do we know he was for sale at 9m?

I don’t think it would be up to VK to be sat down discussing transfer fees with Southampton. More likely to be Alan Pace or someone in financial management.

Judging by the fees paid for other players I don’t think the money requires for Tella would’ve been a problem at the levels you have mentioned above?

Big difference in my opinion. Think we’d have
been near enough safe now. Maybe even safe.

We would be slightly better off. just like we would be slightly better off if Muric didn't make those two catastrophic errors.

People seem to be very quick to completely ignore the fact that we have had shite and slightly better than shite in front of whoever is goalkeeping, so any positive impact is negated and some by the other issues in our team. Changing the goalkeeper definitely is positive, not doubting that at all, but if people think we would be any more than 3 points better off if the change occured sooner, then they are as deluded as those of you who thought we would finish mid table at the start of the season.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 11:51 am

This seems a little silly. We publicly wanted to sign Tella and it's very obvious that we could have if we'd paid an appropriate amount.

Ok Muric, Boey, Tella, Maatsen, Dier, Lukebakio and Cole Palmer?

Also how it is obvious we could’ve signed Tella, are you sure he’d chose Burnley over Leverkusen?

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 12:28 pm

Ok Muric, Boey, Tella, Maatsen, Dier, Lukebakio and Cole Palmer?

I don't really know what point you think you are making. It is good that we were seemingly close to signing two of the best young players in the world, but it's not good that we opted not to sign Nathan Tella.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 12:18 pm

We would be slightly better off. just like we would be slightly better off if Muric didn't make those two catastrophic errors.

People seem to be very quick to completely ignore the fact that we have had shite and slightly better than shite in front of whoever is goalkeeping, so any positive impact is negated and some by the other issues in our team. Changing the goalkeeper definitely is positive, not doubting that at all, but if people think we would be any more than 3 points better off if the change occured sooner, then they are as deluded as those of you who thought we would finish mid table at the start of the season.

Totally agree with this. It doesn't matter who you have in goal if your back 4 and midfield keep assisting the opposition every week. How many times have we been caught out trying to play out from the back. It's ridiculous and it's highlighted by pundits all the time. Our performance against Newcastle was similar to Spurs at Liverpool this weekend. Liverpool pressed them really high because they knew that Spurs wouldn't go long - exactly what Eddie Howe did to us after they went in front.

It's insanity to keep trying to play through your back four when they're effectively being man marked, but teams (including ourselves) insist on doing it. This is where we really miss Nathan Tella. We don't have anyone with his raw pace, so the opposition know they can squeeze us up the pitch without fear of being punished with a quick ball over the top. We can discuss "what if's" until the cows come home, but we're going down due to poor game management more than anything else.

jlup1980 wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 12:45 pm

Totally agree with this. It doesn't matter who you have in goal if your back 4 and midfield keep assisting the opposition every week. How many times have we been caught out trying to play out from the back. It's ridiculous and it's highlighted by pundits all the time. Our performance against Newcastle was similar to Spurs at Liverpool this weekend. Liverpool pressed them really high because they knew that Spurs wouldn't go long - exactly what Eddie Howe did to us after they went in front.

It's insanity to keep trying to play through your back four when they're effectively being man marked, but teams (including ourselves) insist on doing it. This is where we really miss Nathan Tella. We don't have anyone with his raw pace, so the opposition know they can squeeze us up the pitch without fear of being punished with a quick ball over the top. We can discuss "what if's" until the cows come home, but we're going down due to poor game management more than anything else.

Exactly. I think people are getting to emotional with their loyalty/dislike for Muric and Trafford that they can't see the forest for the trees on the more impactful issues this season.

Players come and go; sometimes, you miss out on the transfer window, or the opportunity wasn't realistic for whatever reason.

Kompany made a massive mistake right at the very start and stuck to a process that was costing us points, and that was playing players who were not ready. Muric should never have lost his place in the team. Ramsay shouldn't have been anywhere near the starting XI. He should've trusted the likes of Taylor, JBG, Cullen, Cork and Connor Roberts because we know those payers are good enough to do a job, and it's up to the new signings to break into the team.

Sander Berge was the only decent signing VK made in the Premier League.

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 10:12 am

not an exact science but the upturn in form since Muric came into the side is quite startling, even with the odd mistake he throws in.

Points per game

With Trafford = 0.5
With Muric = 1.25

But we'll be playing in the Championship next season. 1.25 points per game won't hack it. I bet a million pounds to a jelly baby that if this side played in the Championship, with Trafford in goal, we would get more points than that.

Obviously you can look at points per game and say look, we beat Brentford with Muric in nets while the previous game we got hammered by Arsenal, so Muric is the better keeper. But don't you think other factors such as the quality of opposition come into play?

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 12:30 pm

I don't really know what point you think you are making. It is good that we were seemingly close to signing two of the best young players in the world, but it's not good that we opted not to sign Nathan Tella.

Did we opt not to sign Nathan Tella?

His interview in the Town Hall at the promotion party suggested to me he already knew he would not be coming back…

He enjoyed his time at the club, but at no point in the summer did I feel it was more than a possibility we would be able to twist his arm enough to stay.

Who on here knows when BL let his agent know they would be interested?

To suggest Burnley let him go is disingenuous in the extreme.

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 10:12 am

not an exact science but the upturn in form since Muric came into the side is quite startling, even with the odd mistake he throws in.

Points per game

With Trafford = 0.5
With Muric = 1.25

With Trafford (including fixtures home and away against the top 4) = 0.5

With Muric (8 matches against teams placed 6th and below) = 1.25

Startling Analysis

kentonclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2024 3:14 pm

With Trafford (including fixtures home and away against the top 4) = 0.5

With Muric (8 matches against teams placed 6th and below) = 1.25

Startling Analysis

TBF, even if you take out the current top 4 of Arsenal, City, Liverpool, and Villa, that's 14 points in 22 matches, so roughly 0.63 PPG.

I'm a fully paid up member of the keeper's union and would love JT flourish, but it's hard to argue that the change hasn't improved our performance.

This thing about points against the top four is asinine - who cares?

Our season is defined by results against teams in the bottom half (when playing PL football)

....

Keeper creating two chances in a game says it all.

We have absolutely missed the Muric-Tella combo. No doubt about it.