Ten possible errors in hindsight from 2023-24

[jdrobbo]

All my own thoughts and I fully expect that people will disagree with some, but what's a messageboard for, if it's not for sharing thoughts like this...

1) NOT SIGNING ANDROS TOWNSEND. He looked ever so sharp in pre-season and is a leader. Yes, Koleosho came in in his place, but I think there was room for his experience, in a hugely bloated squad - it's the one thing we didn't have enough of.

2) LEFT BACK - We should have gone hard on Maatsen, I think we'll all agree on that, but point number two is about Charlie Taylor. If you're not going to sign Maatsen, then at least start the season with Charlie, as opposed to flitting between Vitinho, Roberts and Al-Dakhil. We looked woefully short at left-back early on and I feel this cost us, especially where our shape was concerned.

3) START MURIC- I had no issues with Trafford being given a good run of games before Christmas and I'm not privy to how the players train, but for me, that starting position was last season's EFL goalkeeper of the season's place to lose.

4. TOO MANY SIGNINGS - The fact that some people had forgotten that the likes of Churlinov, Bastien, BPF etc, were all still Burnley players when discussed a few days ago, speaks volumes. Yes, modern football squads need a good number of players, but we signed too many and often lots in the same position. I felt it set the wrong tone.

5. LOANS - In-light of the fact that we had clearly got a lot of players on the books towards the end of the Summer transfer window, I strongly believe that more players should have gone out on loan. A full season for Benson and Zaroury at Championship level would have had us head0scratching for sure, but they might have been happy, played more games, maintained their value, returned with a point to prove.

6. BURNOUT - For me, too many of our younger players played far too many games consecutively, when it looked as though they were crying out for a rest. I felt Koleosho was looking in need of a rest prior to his injury (unrelated); Trafford was for sure and despite no doubt increasing his sale value, I don't think Odebert has been quite as good in recent weeks. His last goal was at Fulham before Christmas.

7. SUBS - I think most people have questioned how the subs have been used this season. We've rarely looked like having a plan B and often we've seen 2-4 players brought on in the last 15 minutes and if anything, this has just stifled any intent that we might have had. At times it looked like the players were being brought on for appearances, more than anything else.

8. THE DRUMMER ADVERT - We might laugh now but that was an enormous gaff by Mr Ball. He completely didn't read the room and then the club put out the most patronising e-mail to fans, which I sense, made a lot of people really rather angry with the club, especially when performances on the pitch at the time, were truly abysmal.

9. CORK - I totally see where some are coming from with Jack and the need to perhaps look to the future, but I can't help but think that when games were getting blown open late in the first half of games between August and late February, I truly believe we could have give ourselves a better opportunity in matches, even if Corky had played the first 30-45 minutes. Or on the flip-side, had come on with 30 minutes to go, to at least get us on the ball and able to keep possession better. He's an experienced pro and the club captain - I can't understand why he was shut out (sometimes from the matchday squad) as much as he was. His interviews over the last three days suggest he felt similarly. A small caveat here could be that CULLEN, after a few poor games, was left out of the side for too many matches. He has been generally excellent since his return. A crucial Kompany signing!

10. TOGETHERNESS - Regardless of the claptrap that we've been dished up on social media each week ('All Eyes on Stamford Bridge'...Gearing up for Saturday etc...), there have been many times this season when it simply hasn't felt that anything has been aligned. Sometimes the players haven't looked together (by all accounts, the senior pros tried to do something about this but it was met with a frosty reception) and at others, the fans have been divided. The lack of communication from the club hasn't helped the fans in my opinion. After last season, I don't think fans have ever felt as 'out of the loop'...although for many, this is perhaps not a big issue.


Let's hope the rest will do us good.

Only EIGHTY-TWO DAYS to go, and then we do it all again.

From one of the best seasons ever, to one of the worst, in just a few months - only Burnley could do that and that's why I love my team so much. Enjoy the summer and fingers crossed that we do sincerely learn from the many mistakes that have been made this year.

One to forget, for sure,

UTC


John

[beeholeclaret]

Cant argue with anything on there. Ive supported the club and decisions made for as much of the season as I can but there is no escaping the fact that mistakes appear to have been made. We dont really know what goes on behind the scenes and why certain decisions were made. There could be good logic there but it will never be shared with the likes of us on this board.

[jdrobbo]

Cant argue with anything on there. Ive supported the club and decisions made for as much of the season as I can but there is no escaping the fact that mistakes appear to have been made. We dont really know what goes on behind the scenes and why certain decisions were made. There could be good logic there but it will never be shared with the likes of us on this board.

I think there’s an argument that fans need to know ‘too much’ in the present world of fast-paced social media, BUT the flip-side is that fans at BFC feel much more in the dark now than they did, say a decade ago. It just feels a bit wrong. I know that injury updates are an area that have frustrated many: yes the club perhaps wants to do things their own way, but when you’ve got a player sat in a bed with metal pins in his legs, posting about his injury on his on social media, but the club refuse to acknowledge it, it just seems beyond odd. We’re talking about Bastien. Similarly, details about players like Agyei…every man and his dog knows but the club say nothing. The youth team too.

[Rowls]

Ten? Only ten?

[jdrobbo]

Ten? Only ten?

Fair

[Ric_C]

Agree with most of this, I'd argue not giving Cullen (last seasons POTY) more of a chance until it was too late.

Injuries and health issues to our attacking options also hampered us.

Agree with the burnout. Amdouni and Odobert should have been rested at times, and Tresor and Benson given more of a run in the side.

Point 3 was almost comical at one stage and it felt like VK was doing some kind of bizarre social experiment.

[ElectroClaret]

Like others, no argument with any of that, jd.

Apart from your use of the word "hindsight".
Particularly in relation to the Trafford/Muric situation.
Everyone apart from the manager it seemed could see right in front of their eyes at the time that persisting with
JT wasn't working.
(Stan's blind man on a galloping horse analogy would be quite apt.)

It was unfathomable why it took so long for the penny to drop with Kompany .

Like you, just my view, others may have wanted Trafford to continue. But hindsight, not really.

[Clive 1960]

All my own thoughts and I fully expect that people will disagree with some, but what's a messageboard for, if it's not for sharing thoughts like this...

1) NOT SIGNING ANDROS TOWNSEND. He looked ever so sharp in pre-season and is a leader. Yes, Koleosho came in in his place, but I think there was room for his experience, in a hugely bloated squad - it's the one thing we didn't have enough of.

2) LEFT BACK - We should have gone hard on Maatsen, I think we'll all agree on that, but point number two is about Charlie Taylor. If you're not going to sign Maatsen, then at least start the season with Charlie, as opposed to flitting between Vitinho, Roberts and Al-Dakhil. We looked woefully short at left-back early on and I feel this cost us, especially where our shape was concerned.

3) START MURIC- I had no issues with Trafford being given a good run of games before Christmas and I'm not privy to how the players train, but for me, that starting position was last season's EFL goalkeeper of the season's place to lose.

4. TOO MANY SIGNINGS - The fact that some people had forgotten that the likes of Churlinov, Bastien, BPF etc, were all still Burnley players when discussed a few days ago, speaks volumes. Yes, modern football squads need a good number of players, but we signed too many and often lots in the same position. I felt it set the wrong tone.

5. LOANS - In-light of the fact that we had clearly got a lot of players on the books towards the end of the Summer transfer window, I strongly believe that more players should have gone out on loan. A full season for Benson and Zaroury at Championship level would have had us head0scratching for sure, but they might have been happy, played more games, maintained their value, returned with a point to prove.

6. BURNOUT - For me, too many of our younger players played far too many games consecutively, when it looked as though they were crying out for a rest. I felt Koleosho was looking in need of a rest prior to his injury (unrelated); Trafford was for sure and despite no doubt increasing his sale value, I don't think Odebert has been quite as good in recent weeks. His last goal was at Fulham before Christmas.

7. SUBS - I think most people have questioned how the subs have been used this season. We've rarely looked like having a plan B and often we've seen 2-4 players brought on in the last 15 minutes and if anything, this has just stifled any intent that we might have had. At times it looked like the players were being brought on for appearances, more than anything else.

8. THE DRUMMER ADVERT - We might laugh now but that was an enormous gaff by Mr Ball. He completely didn't read the room and then the club put out the most patronising e-mail to fans, which I sense, made a lot of people really rather angry with the club, especially when performances on the pitch at the time, were truly abysmal.

9. CORK - I totally see where some are coming from with Jack and the need to perhaps look to the future, but I can't help but think that when games were getting blown open late in the first half of games between August and late February, I truly believe we could have give ourselves a better opportunity in matches, even if Corky had played the first 30-45 minutes. Or on the flip-side, had come on with 30 minutes to go, to at least get us on the ball and able to keep possession better. He's an experienced pro and the club captain - I can't understand why he was shut out (sometimes from the matchday squad) as much as he was. His interviews over the last three days suggest he felt similarly. A small caveat here could be that CULLEN, after a few poor games, was left out of the side for too many matches. He has been generally excellent since his return. A crucial Kompany signing!

10. TOGETHERNESS - Regardless of the claptrap that we've been dished up on social media each week ('All Eyes on Stamford Bridge'...Gearing up for Saturday etc...), there have been many times this season when it simply hasn't felt that anything has been aligned. Sometimes the players haven't looked together (by all accounts, the senior pros tried to do something about this but it was met with a frosty reception) and at others, the fans have been divided. The lack of communication from the club hasn't helped the fans in my opinion. After last season, I don't think fans have ever felt as 'out of the loop'...although for many, this is perhaps not a big issue.


Let's hope the rest will do us good.

Only EIGHTY-TWO DAYS to go, and then we do it all again.

From one of the best seasons ever, to one of the worst, in just a few months - only Burnley could do that and that's why I love my team so much. Enjoy the summer and fingers crossed that we do sincerely learn from the many mistakes that have been made this year.

One to forget, for sure,

UTC


John

Excellent post John couldn't agree more

[jdrobbo]

Excellent post John couldn't agree more

Hope you are keeping well, Clive. Thank you for the message.

[Fretters]

Great post, John.

The catering shambles annoyed me a lot more than the drummer thing, though!

[Clive 1960]

Hope you are keeping well, Clive. Thank you for the message.

Doing ok John thanks for asking and hope you are ok

[jdrobbo]

Great post, John.

The catering shambles annoyed me a lot more than the drummer thing, though!

Yes, that could easily be on the list. It was a total shambles for several weeks. Overall quality still remains nowhere near as good as it was, payment systems have been ever so slightly faster and prices, ridiculous for the quality of the items being dished up. I have found the staff to be excellent though.

[claptrappers_union]

PLAYING RAMSAY - like Trafford, I have no issues with giving young players experience, but he wasn't ready to be given the number of minutes on the pitch as he was - which was detrimental to some of the results.

INJURIES - though we shouldn't be pinning our survival hopes on a teenager, losing Kolesho was a blow. He was beginning to show some real quality. Also, losing Bayer and Foster because of his mental health, especially given he was showing some form at the time.

VAR - they say that wrong decisions even themselves up over a season, but match officiating has been atrocious this season, in general. There were some real howlers, too. The ‘handball’ at Forest, Luton's late equaliser, the penalty at Aston Villa, the penalty at Chelsea and the free kick awarded for Wolves' equaliser… that's just from the top of my head.

CLANGERS - Muric cost us points at Everton and home to Brentford with calamitous errors.

DISCIPLINE - 7 Red Cards and a couple for the manager too. Certainly not helped.

[deanothedino]

Starting the season with Cullen as a single pivot, a role he absolutely isn’t good enough to play in our side in the PL. Should have put him alongside someone much earlier.

[Tricky Trevor]

Agree with all except Maatsen. I don’t feel he ever wanted to come back to us. Saw himself as a level above and he was correct.
I still don't think he’s a LB though but Dortmund have found a system that accommodates his skills.

[Hipper]

Thoughtful post JD.

Cork I'm not sure Jack Cork would have offered much. He was becoming a liability as last season progressed with his lack of pace and accumulation of yellow cards. Perhaps he was asked to commit all those fouls but those yellows would have translated to reds in The Prem.

Maatsen His performances at Chelsea early this season (from their TV games) weren't too bad but didn't show enough to be thought of as a good left back. Whilst he did improve defensively in The Championship he was still not that good and certainly not Premier League standard. From the rumours it seemed we were being asked to pay a ridiculous amount of money for him (was it £34 million?) and who knows what wages so I doubt this was ever a possibility anyway. Maybe another loan if that was an option. Agree on Taylor though. A Premier League left back, at least for our level.

Townshend Presumably it was a choice between him and Redmond. Redmond seemed a good bet to me at the time.

Practically all the players simply not good enough This above all is the cause of our failures. All the players we had high hopes of developing to be Premier League players from last season simply failed. Al Dakhil, Beyer, Foster, Zaroury, Benson, Cullen, Obafemi maybe. The former Premier League players on our books were either past it (Rodriguez, Cork, JBG) or never really good enough (Brownhill maybe but Roberts in particular). The players brought in, except for Berge (and maybe O'Shea who I thought was meant as back up but did improve in the end and seems to be our second best signing after Berge), were also not immediately up to Premier League quality and none have consistently shown anything to say they will be (I appreciate it takes longer then one season in a struggling side, in most cases in a new country, to succeed and it's quite possible some of those players will make it).

The concern is that VK thought these players could within this season keep us up. He was utterly wrong.

[JR1882]

The Maatsen one was just bizarre to me, it seemed obvious all summer he wasn’t overly keen but how do we go from bidding 27m or whatever it was to then getting no one? If the position needs an upgrade shouldn’t there be a priority list of 4-5 players. Not bidding for number one on deadline day and then ending up with no one:

[cockneyclaret]

- like Trafford, I have no issues with giving young players experience, but he wasn't ready to be given the number of minutes on the pitch as he was - which was detrimental to some of the results.

Total forgot about this signing, another we had our pants pulled down on. Probably a signing that would be good to slowly integrate into an established squad. Not thrown on here and there with no real direction.

[Stalbansclaret]

TELLA ...we should have gone all out to bring him in permanently ....pace,trickery, finishing (19 goals wasn't it ?) , immense pressing and clearly a good character very good for morale. I seethe when I think of the money we chose to spend on Tresor and Amdouni (and Trafford) rather than coughing up to bring Tella in. Noomne can possibly convince me that Tresor or Amdouni are fit to lace his boots. And this is not even hindsight....I was gutted at the time that we didn't bring him in.

[Herts Clarets]

11. The leadership team taking no action when the Manager was making the same mistakes, tactical, selection, game management week in, week out that were costing us dearly. Dare I say VK having far too much influence in the running of the club....

[aggi]

I think there’s an argument that fans need to know ‘too much’ in the present world of fast-paced social media,BUT the flip-side is that fans at BFC feel much more in the dark now than they did, say a decade ago. It just feels a bit wrong. I know that injury updates are an area that have frustrated many: yes the club perhaps wants to do things their own way, but when you’ve got a player sat in a bed with metal pins in his legs, posting about his injury on his on social media, but the club refuse to acknowledge it, it just seems beyond odd. We’re talking about Bastien. Similarly, details about players like Agyei…every man and his dog knows but the club say nothing. The youth team too.

I think fans may feel much more in the dark but I'm not convinced they really are. Communication has never been particularly open: ten years or so ago we had stuff like Vossen appearing and disappearing, the ground being sold off players being a few weeks off for months, very restricted social media from the club/players, etc

A lot of this kind of thing goes with the performances too though. When the team is playing well and winning then there's much less interest in when a player may return, imporvements to the atmosphere, what is going on with this and that.

[Big Vinny K]

Good OP.

I’m not sure we could have done much more to get Maatsen. We were prepared to smash our transfer record. Not sure we will ever know the whole truth on this but it seems like a big mistake not having a plan B. I don’t believe Charlie Taylor was a -lan B or C or D….based on VK’s first season in charge.

We made too many mistakes in the transfer market to go over this again. Clearly he got the balance massively wrong and to spend all that money and then left with having to play 2 or 3 players most week who VK himself did not select most weeks in the Championship was baffling to say the least.

I agree that VK consistently made a mess of his substitutions.

VK said from day one that he was on a development curve but this season seemed to show that he did not learn lessons quickly enough. Trafford v Muric is the obvious one but there were plenty of others too. Not bringing Cullen back, the position he played Berge, persisting with Amdouni for far too long, playing Vitinho at full back (or at all !!) etc.

From a club / ownership point of view I agree that poor communications is magnified more when the team is struggling. I also agree that I don’t think the previous owners were particularly great at it either. It’s not a massive priority for me really unless there is an issue that impacts myself and my friends and family which in the case of this year and our seats and season tickets there actually was. In our case you do see the full limitations and how poor and amateurish our ticket office is - but I already knew that anyway.

I’ll still be here next season like most of us. It’s the hope that kills you !

[CoolClaret]

Not so sure about Townsend specifically - that point can be turned to signing a few more ex pros than youngsters.

The rest I'll go with but one to add:

Not playing with a dedicated midfield three for most of the season shafted us, imo.

Amdouni (and Ramsey's) output given his/their gametime was very poor. We'd have been much better playing Brownhill/JBG in that attacking midfield/ '10' (not really a ten) position; we'd have been far more defensively sound, better at set pieces and better at counter pressing and winning the ball back higher up the pitch.

Brownhill was v good for us in that role last season - I appreciate the PL is a different beast but he still bagged 4 goals from deeper in midfield this season.

[Rodleydave]

At last someone mentioned Tella.
This season we have lacked all the pace we had last season.
We had pace all over the pitch.
This season just Koleosho until his injury so that was short-lived.
Odebert, just glimpses.

[jdrobbo]

Tella is a good shout

[ClaretAL]

Great post John, and agree with what you have said whole heartedly

[dougcollins]

You did well to get through your OP without mentioning Tella.

[jdrobbo]

You did well to get through your OP without mentioning Tella.

That’s true.

[Culmclaret]

Was returning to training ridiculously early another mistake?

[Nonayforever]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, bur most points didn't need the benefit of Hindsight.

1 AT, not him specifically, just aimless experiment instead of consolidation.
2.Left back - I think we really tried to get someone but it just didn't happen.
3. Muric - biggest gaff.
4.5,6, & 7 agree wholeheartedly.
8, What a joke !
9, Not just Cork - expirenced players, a blend.
10, Did look as though they weren't on the same hymm sheet now and again.

Like other posters have said, many other obvious points as well.
Let's hope the management do a post mortem as well.

[ChristheViking]

I would add in a very poor disciplinary record.

We topped the league in the # of red cards and we had a substantial # of yellow cards as well.

Yes we did get some awful VAR calls (that's a whole separate topic) but overall the lack of discipline was a big problem.

Re the drummer ad - I wouldn't put that in my top 1000 errors we made.

[IanMcL]

All my own thoughts and I fully expect that people will disagree with some, but what's a messageboard for, if it's not for sharing thoughts like this...

1) NOT SIGNING ANDROS TOWNSEND. He looked ever so sharp in pre-season and is a leader. Yes, Koleosho came in in his place, but I think there was room for his experience, in a hugely bloated squad - it's the one thing we didn't have enough of.

2) LEFT BACK - We should have gone hard on Maatsen, I think we'll all agree on that, but point number two is about Charlie Taylor. If you're not going to sign Maatsen, then at least start the season with Charlie, as opposed to flitting between Vitinho, Roberts and Al-Dakhil. We looked woefully short at left-back early on and I feel this cost us, especially where our shape was concerned.

3) START MURIC- I had no issues with Trafford being given a good run of games before Christmas and I'm not privy to how the players train, but for me, that starting position was last season's EFL goalkeeper of the season's place to lose.

4. TOO MANY SIGNINGS - The fact that some people had forgotten that the likes of Churlinov, Bastien, BPF etc, were all still Burnley players when discussed a few days ago, speaks volumes. Yes, modern football squads need a good number of players, but we signed too many and often lots in the same position. I felt it set the wrong tone.

5. LOANS - In-light of the fact that we had clearly got a lot of players on the books towards the end of the Summer transfer window, I strongly believe that more players should have gone out on loan. A full season for Benson and Zaroury at Championship level would have had us head0scratching for sure, but they might have been happy, played more games, maintained their value, returned with a point to prove.

6. BURNOUT - For me, too many of our younger players played far too many games consecutively, when it looked as though they were crying out for a rest. I felt Koleosho was looking in need of a rest prior to his injury (unrelated); Trafford was for sure and despite no doubt increasing his sale value, I don't think Odebert has been quite as good in recent weeks. His last goal was at Fulham before Christmas.

7. SUBS - I think most people have questioned how the subs have been used this season. We've rarely looked like having a plan B and often we've seen 2-4 players brought on in the last 15 minutes and if anything, this has just stifled any intent that we might have had. At times it looked like the players were being brought on for appearances, more than anything else.

8. THE DRUMMER ADVERT - We might laugh now but that was an enormous gaff by Mr Ball. He completely didn't read the room and then the club put out the most patronising e-mail to fans, which I sense, made a lot of people really rather angry with the club, especially when performances on the pitch at the time, were truly abysmal.

9. CORK - I totally see where some are coming from with Jack and the need to perhaps look to the future, but I can't help but think that when games were getting blown open late in the first half of games between August and late February, I truly believe we could have give ourselves a better opportunity in matches, even if Corky had played the first 30-45 minutes. Or on the flip-side, had come on with 30 minutes to go, to at least get us on the ball and able to keep possession better. He's an experienced pro and the club captain - I can't understand why he was shut out (sometimes from the matchday squad) as much as he was. His interviews over the last three days suggest he felt similarly. A small caveat here could be that CULLEN, after a few poor games, was left out of the side for too many matches. He has been generally excellent since his return. A crucial Kompany signing!

10. TOGETHERNESS - Regardless of the claptrap that we've been dished up on social media each week ('All Eyes on Stamford Bridge'...Gearing up for Saturday etc...), there have been many times this season when it simply hasn't felt that anything has been aligned. Sometimes the players haven't looked together (by all accounts, the senior pros tried to do something about this but it was met with a frosty reception) and at others, the fans have been divided. The lack of communication from the club hasn't helped the fans in my opinion. After last season, I don't think fans have ever felt as 'out of the loop'...although for many, this is perhaps not a big issue.


Let's hope the rest will do us good.

Only EIGHTY-TWO DAYS to go, and then we do it all again.

From one of the best seasons ever, to one of the worst, in just a few months - only Burnley could do that and that's why I love my team so much. Enjoy the summer and fingers crossed that we do sincerely learn from the many mistakes that have been made this year.

One to forget, for sure,

UTC


John

I agree with your assessment, Robbo. My only question is why 'hindsight'? We all knew this throughout. Only the manager was oblivious.

[jdrobbo]

I think that’s fair. I meant with the hindsight of the management staff, not myself personally. But yes, I take your point.

[leelad]

Good OP.

The management were not loyal enough in my opinion to the squad that took us out of the Championship with 101 points and ripped it up without giving much thought on how to put the jigsaw back together again.

Formation and style of play. Doing the same things but expecting different results. Only need to look at how they started against Man City on opening night. Giving the ball away leading to cheap goals.

That stat of losing 20 odd points from winning positions. Where was that nous and leadership in the squad to get us over the line and win ugly in these situations?

Home form. Or lack of it. Visiting teams don't come to Turf Moor anymore expecting a rough afternoon.

I'll agree on the subs. No clue at all on how to use them effectively.

No connection (it has felt) between the board and the fans. Where or what is our identity these days? Buy an overpriced flag, and advertising for a drummer. Asking us about how to create atmosphere in the ground.

Disciplinary issues with yellow and red cards.

Lack of togetherness in the squad.

Lack of partnerships in the squad.

Leading to a lack of goals. Who was going to get us out of trouble? No recognized centre forward pairing (like Barnes & Wood under Dyche).

Right, I've drawn a line under this shambles of a season now as a fan. Enjoy the summer and UTC.