Advice sought -vet related

[Neil]

Hi all, I was looking for some opinions and would appreciate some serious replies.

My little twelve year old dog was attacked last night by an Alsatian / German Shepherd (off lead and not muzzled)

She took a severe bite to her lower leg and I took her to the emergency vets.

Long story short, I paid £650 to the emergency vet and another £500 to my own vet for xrays and diagnosis this afternoon.

It turns out she has three broken toes and the vet gave me three options.
I can pay £3500 for an operation, have the full leg amputated or bandage it for 6 weeks and see how it is.

Now the obvious option is to wait and see how it goes after 6 weeks.
I wouldn't consider amputation and £3.5k is a lot to pull out for me, meaning I basically don't have it.
She is insured but apparently there is no guarantee they will pay out and I'm liable for 20% due to her age as well as the excess.

I suppose what I'm asking about, as well as getting this off my chest, is can you really trust vets or are they out for as much as they can get?

Seems extreme to me for three broken toes and I've read a few reports lately that they are being investigated for overcharging.

Thanks for reading.

[Raconteur]

Full leg amputation for 3 broken toes

[Carlos the Great]

I always get the feeling I’ve had my leg amputated when I got to the vets… the fees seem astronomical nowadays .. the owner of the German shepherd should be contributing to this bill ?

[Darnhill Claret]

It's easier than a three toe amputation.

[Darnhill Claret]

Good point from Carlos.

[elwaclaret]

Hi all, I was looking for some opinions and would appreciate some serious replies.

My little twelve year old dog was attacked last night by an Alsatian / German Shepherd (off lead and not muzzled)

She took a severe bite to her lower leg and I took her to the emergency vets.

Long story short, I paid £650 to the emergency vet and another £500 to my own vet for xrays and diagnosis this afternoon.

It turns out she has three broken toes and the vet gave me three options.
I can pay £3500 for an operation, have the full leg amputated or bandage it for 6 weeks and see how it is.

Now the obvious option is to wait and see how it goes after 6 weeks.
I wouldn't consider amputation and £3.5k is a lot to pull out for me, meaning I basically don't have it.
She is insured but apparently there is no guarantee they will pay out and I'm liable for 20% due to her age as well as the excess.

I suppose what I'm asking about, as well as getting this off my chest, is can you really trust vets or are they out for as much as they can get?

Seems extreme to me for three broken toes and I've read a few reports lately that they are being investigated for overcharging.

Thanks for reading.

Like all walks of life good and bad. The main problem is their lack of empathy for people not earning the sort of wages they can make even in deprived areas. Last time I was in (dolling out £600+) my vet was laughing that someone took the option of putting their “best friend down” rather than find £300 for treatment… I pointed out £300 can take six months+ for many people to save and am currently looking for a new vet I was so disgusted with his attitude.

I think in your case I would try creating a splint to keep the pressure of the foot, and see how it goes. There are other options if you live in Blackpool or Manchester area… Pdsa take donations, but they have no vets in East Lancs (which I find horrific given the poverty of so many areas).

[Neil]

I always get the feeling I’ve had my leg amputated when I got to the vets… the fees seem astronomical nowadays .. the owner of the German shepherd should be contributing to this bill ?

I've not spoken to them yet for fear of losing my temper but yes I will be speaking to them when I know where I stand.

I'm a soft person and had they bumped into my car I would I would have accepted the apology and told them mistakes happen.

But to have a dog like roaming about freely just seems effin stupid at best.

[Jakubclaret]

I'd google pet animal forums or specifically type in the breed & the broken toes, believe me somebody somewhere will have had exactly the same experience as you & it's just a question of finding them.

[TheHistoryLecturer24]

Nine years ago one of my dogs was taken ill quite suddenly and diagnosed with cancer of the spleen. 'Oh we can book her in straightaway and it will cost you £2500 ' so I put the phone down and once the shock had gone spent a few minutes looking up cancer of the spleen in dogs ...

Then I rang them back .. what's her life expectancy if I did put my dog through this operation ? ' 1-3 months' the point being they didn't mention that when they were keen to book her in and trouser my £2500.

[Neil]

Like all walks of life good and bad. The main problem is their lack of empathy for people not earning the sort of wages they can make even in deprived areas. Last time I was in (dolling out £600+) my vet was laughing that someone took the option of putting their “best friend down” rather than find £300 for treatment… I pointed out £300 can take six months+ for many people to save and am currently looking for a new vet I was so disgusted with his attitude.

I think in your case I would try creating a splint to keep the pressure of the foot, and see how it goes. There are other options if you live in Blackpool or Manchester area… Pdsa take donations, but they have no vets in East Lancs (which I find horrific given the poverty of so many areas).

Thanks elwa, I'm not poor or wealthy, just a normal man with a normal job.

I live in the North East.

When I was in the emergency vet (pdsa) there was two women in there getting treatment on two pedigree dogs. Heard them at the counter being charged a fiver for the treatment.

[elwaclaret]

Thanks elwa, I'm not poor or wealthy, just a normal man with a normal job.

I live in the North East.

When I was in the emergency vet (pdsa) there was two women in there getting treatment on two pedigree dogs. Heard them at the counter being charged a fiver for the treatment.

I’d pay the Pdsa a visit and given your circumstances set up a DD making a monthly donation… they help you, you help them and others in the future. Just a thought.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

If you check out the Facebook groups for rescues in your area, you will often find a “nice” vet. Usually they work with you in regards to time and money and just generally being good old fashioned trusted vets, which is why Rescues like to use them.

[jjclaret]

Hi Neil, two quick questions, what breed is your dog and secondly was your dog off or on lead?
As for being soft, the other dog owner is not going to seek you out and pay your expenses and so you need to control your temper and get in contact - sooner rather than later.
Good luck.

[giveusaB]

Pdsa website

https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do/treat

[Neil]

Hi Neil, two quick questions, what breed is your dog and secondly was your dog off or on lead?
As for being soft, the other dog owner is not going to seek you out and pay your expenses and so you need to control your temper and get in contact - sooner rather than later.
Good luck.

My dog is Jack Russell / Shitsu, tiny little thing with about 6 teeth left. She was off lead to be fair but she's completely harmless and it was in my local cemetery.

At the time I gave a few expletives, picked my dog up and quickly carried her out as she was bleeding heavily.
The woman was crying and offering her number but I was in no mood at the time.

When I got back home (two minutes away) I told my 16 year old daughter who ran over and got her number.

Don't think she's the type to blow it off.

I'm a bit torn about informing the police as I don't want the other dog put down.

Thanks mate.

[dushanbe]

Vet charges are a prime example of what happens when insurers decide to infiltrate an industry.

[Clovius Boofus]

This isn't much help, but I'm so sorry that you and your dog have to go through this, and all because of another dog owner who obviously cannot control their animal.

Last year I witnessed a dog attack in Towneley Park. The poor woman was taking her well-behaved dog for a walk when an unleashed dog came bounding up and took a big chuck out of her dog. The woman was in a state of shock and her dog was bloodied and clearly in a lot of pain.

The couple who owned the out of control dog managed to rive their dog away, then scarpered. The 2020/21 rise in dog ownership has ensured that many idiots now have dogs.

[Jakubclaret]

From the life within me I'll never understand why more people can't manage responsibility for their animals. If you can't muzzle it or keep it on a leash don't get a dog or get a different breed you can handle.

[Neil]

This isn't much help, but I'm so sorry that you and your dog have to go through this, and all because of another dog owner who obviously cannot control their animal.

Last year I witnessed a dog attack in Towneley Park. The poor woman was taking her well-behaved dog for a walk when an unleashed dog came bounding up and took a big chuck out of her dog. The woman was in a state of shock and her dog was bloodied and clearly in a lot of pain.

The couple who owned the out of control dog managed to rive their dog away, then scarpered. The 2020/21 rise in dog ownership has ensured that many idiots now have dogs.

Appreciate your comments.

Still can't believe it wasn't muzzled in view of all the news stories over the last year.

[JLR81]

that's awful, im really sorry

if the owner was upset and offering her number at the time i'd say thats a good sign, as i guess she could have walked away

definitely talk to them, be as calm as possible - i know you're angry, i would be too, but any anger/aggression will only work against you

invite them to yours to talk if possible, you'll feel more comfortable at home and they won't feel "attacked" in their house

the owner is possibly devastated and scared what could happen

if necessary post a note through their door or text them inviting them over for a cup of tea and a chat - it'll be a good chance for them to meet your dog and see the impact for themselves

Good luck with it all, would like to know how it works out

[Clovius Boofus]

I'm a bit torn about informing the police as I don't want the other dog put down.

Thanks mate.

Neil, I can see your point, but it will happen again. Might even be a small child next time.

[Neil]

that's awful, im really sorry

if the owner was upset and offering her number at the time i'd say thats a good sign, as i guess she could have walked away

definitely talk to them, be as calm as possible - i know you're angry, i would be too, but any anger/aggression will only work against you

invite them to yours to talk if possible, you'll feel more comfortable at home and they won't feel "attacked" in their house

the owner is possibly devastated and scared what could happen

if necessary post a note through their door or text them inviting them over for a cup of tea and a chat - it'll be a good chance for them to meet your dog and see the impact for themselves

Good luck with it all, would like to know how it works out

Thanks mate, nice words and advise

[Neil]

Neil, I can see your point, but it will happen again. Might even be a small child next time.

I know but based on the brief time I spent with her she didn't seem a bad person and I think will have learned a lesson.

Will probably speak to them in person as suggested above and decide based on how that goes.

[jdrobbo]

I’m so sorry that your pooch was hurt.

[jjclaret]

Neil, my experience tells me that the police won’t be interested in a dog on dog situation only in dog on human. If I was in your position then I would talk to the other dog’s owner. You may get a pleasant surprise, nothing ventured nothing gained

[beddie]

I’d contact the owner of the dog that attacked yours and politely inform them where you’re up to, in other words you’re looking to them to reimburse you. They may have house or separate insurance that covers the loss or may prefer to pay out themselves. If your dogs insured could you ask your insurance company to contact the dog owners (and/or their insurers) on your behalf. There’s no harm in investigating all your options.

[Neil]

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it, especially on Kompany to Bayern Munich day!

Well I messaged the dog owner and the reply wasn't great.

They asked how the dog was after the "altercation between the two dogs" then went on to say I've had my dog checked out and she seems fine. Like I give a ****.

I kept cool and said well I've paid this amount so far and mentioned the cost of the operation.

They asked if pet insurance would cover any and I explained that it would cover 80% less excess and admin fees but that she was only covered for £4k and the total would be around £4700.

No reply.

I will message tomorrow along the lines you mentioned at the time you would pay any vet fees but didn't offer last night?

After that the gloves are off.

[Quickenthetempo]

Hi Neil, sorry for the dogs injuries.

You haven't mentioned how the dogs came to the incident/ fight?
Was your dog just at the side of you and the other dog came running up and attacked?

[pureclaret]

You may find that if the owner has pet insurance they may be covered for 3rd party liability. If not the owner may have house insurance with 3rd party.
I have a policy with Bought by many and has 3rd party up to £3 million so it may be worth keeping your cool and asking them. Your own policy may be able to advise on this too

[Neil]

Hi Neil, sorry for the dogs injuries.

You haven't mentioned how the dogs came to the incident/ fight?
Was your dog just at the side of you and the other dog came running up and attacked?

It's hard to describe but basically the cemetery is split into open square areas where the graves are and there's open space where the dogs can run. There's a main concrete pathway that runs through the middle of all the squares from the front to the back of the cemetery. We were just coming out of the square when the other dog was walking down the path. You can't see who's coming along as there are hedges either side of the open exits which have an opening of about 2 metres.
Basically the dogs were about 20 yards apart when their eyes met and I was a further 20 yards back.

My dog just kept trotting towards it as she's friendly and used to sniffing around other dogs. By the time they got close the dogs owner appeared from behind the hedge and shouted at it but that's when it attacked.

[Jakubclaret]

The fact that a dog is loose in a cemetery is concerning within itself I think it's a requirement that they are kept on a leash at all times due to them fouling on peoples graves. Pendle have notices up asking people to have them on leashes otherwise you could get fined.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I’d be inclined to have a solicitor or similar send a polite letter.
After the letter they know what’s coming next so it’s their chance to contribute.

[Taffy on the wing]

Vet charges are a prime example of what happens when insurers decide to infiltrate an industry.

Dead right!

[Carlos the Great]

You’ve described the woman who owns the German shepherd as a sympathetic to the incident so it was possibly out of character for her dog to act this way … She is likely to be shocked the Vet fees are over 4 grand and is unlikely to write a cheque for
That amount … I’m not sure going to the police is likely to help your cause as if might make her change her story saying the dogs had an argument and the biggest won type of thing /.. if it was me I would speak to her aand try
And get her pay half of this bill …half is better than none .. good luck and I hope your pooch gets sorted and not have any traumatic issues when eventually goes back on walks

[Jakubclaret]

I’d be inclined to have a solicitor or similar send a polite letter.
After the letter they know what’s coming next so it’s their chance to contribute.

If I can add to that I'd make sure it's a signed for letter you can fair rack a bill up for solicitors letters if the other person decides to ignore them.

[Neil]

Thanks again for all the advice lads.

Regarding the police, I know it's not a police matter but when I Googled it, it said to inform the police and local dog warden. Also I don't have her name or address so reporting to the police should get me their details.

I've text again just now saying, just so I know my position, do you intend to honour what you said at the time of time of the attack and pay any vet bills?

I have a feeling that someone will have been in her ear and told her to admit nothing as sometimes happens with car accidents where the guilty party owns up immediately but then retracts it after taking advice.

If it turns out they won't do the honourable thing, it will be police, dog warden and solicitor.

[Raconteur]

Thanks again for all the advice lads.

Regarding the police, I know it's not a police matter but when I Googled it, it said to inform the police and local dog warden. Also I don't have her name or address so reporting to the police should get me their details.

I've text again just now saying, just so I know my position, do you intend to honour what you said at the time of time of the attack and pay any vet bills?

I have a feeling that someone will have been in her ear and told her to admit nothing as sometimes happens with car accidents where the guilty party owns up immediately but then retracts it after taking advice.

If it turns out they won't do the honourable thing, it will be police, dog warden and solicitor.

Were there any witnesses?

From what you say it looks like the women could be getting ahead and putting together a false narrative.

With her taking her dog to the vets she is already putting it in motion. She could go on to say that it was your dog that attacked first.

[Neil]

Were there any witnesses?

From what you say it looks like the women could be getting ahead and putting together a false narrative.

With her taking her dog to the vets she is already putting it in motion. She could go on to say that it was your dog that attacked first.

Just me, my wife and the other dog owner were there.

It was 8pm at night in the cemetery and I take her at that time during the light nights because there's usually no one about.

She hasn't replied to my message from this morning yet but may not have seen it.

You could be right but I'd be pretty confident about it legally.
The difference in size between the two dogs is huge. My dog is an old girl at 12 years old and has lost most of her teeth. She's no threat to any dog.
And the fact that this dog was not on a leash and had no muzzle should be a big factor.
She clearly couldn't control it and when she was upset said "I have to walk her late because she was attacked when she was younger "

I'm getting more angry the more I think about it and have barely slept.

I'm almost at the point where I hope she denies everything so I can go all in.

[beddie]

Neil. Speak with your Insurance company, you’ll get advice from them via their legal team. They may take the whole issue up on your behalf, however, suggest to them that you email the owner to ask if she has 3rd party cover as it’s your intention to claim the full amount together with any future on going costs your dog may need as a result of their dogs aggressive nature. Usually Insurance companies want chapter and verse of the incident, especially if they think they can claim it back.

[Neil]

Neil. Speak with your Insurance company, you’ll get advice from them via their legal team. They may take the whole issue up on your behalf, however, suggest to them that you email the owner to ask if she has 3rd party cover as it’s your intention to claim the full amount together with any future on going costs your dog may need as a result of their dogs aggressive nature. Usually Insurance companies want chapter and verse of the incident, especially if they think they can claim it back.

Thanks Beddie.

Spoke to the insurer and I'm going in on Friday to change the dressing (just another 50 quid) so I'll bring it up.

One positive update is they said they will process a direct claim with the insurer so I won't have to pay up front.

Reckon that'll leave me about a grand down if I can't get anything off the dog owner.

[Carlos the Great]

Neil I hope your dog recovers physically and mentally in what must have been a terrifying incident for a small elderly dog who isn’t looking for a fight …

[Clovius Boofus]

It's this kind of thing that puts me and the missus off from getting another dog. On our walks, we see such poor behaviour from some dog owners. Where we go walking, there are signs all over the place regarding keeping dogs on a leash because of livestock. I'd say compliance is around 50%. Not to mention those who leave dogmess and poo bags in fields, on footpaths, moorland and parkland.

Such antisocial behaviour irritates the heck out of me, but if I had our own dog, I'd be even more angry with lazy, selfish owners who can't be bothered to follow a couple of simple rules because they give responsible dog owners a bad name.

[Herts Clarets]

Nine years ago one of my dogs was taken ill quite suddenly and diagnosed with cancer of the spleen. 'Oh we can book her in straightaway and it will cost you £2500 ' so I put the phone down and once the shock had gone spent a few minutes looking up cancer of the spleen in dogs ...

Then I rang them back .. what's her life expectancy if I did put my dog through this operation ? ' 1-3 months' the point being they didn't mention that when they were keen to book her in and trouser my £2500.

I had a similar experience with my Staffie, who I lost in 2020. He had a large growth on his ribcage are, which went from golf ball to tennis ball size in a couple of weeks. He also had a cough and was not keen on exercise, totally out of character for Ron as he lived for chasing a tennis ball around. I took him to our vet who referred us to a local specialist place for a scan. We found that the lack of desire for exercise was that he had fluid on his lungs so was causing him to be out of breath very quickly and that the tumour was cancerous. Ron was approaching 11 years old at this time. We also found that his insurance would not cover this, as he had previously been treated for a small growth on his skin, which came and went without issue some years previously. The vets started talking about scans, and then the options for surgery, which included removal of one or more ribs plus part of his chest wall. We were looking in the region of 9 grand for all of this. Given that he was 11 years old and there could be no guarantee of quality of life if they carrier all this work out, we took the decision not to put him through surgery and that we would take him home, then to our usual vets for our goodbyes and the dreaded one way trip.

Once it was clear that we were not going to opt for surgery, the vet then told us that if the cancer had spread to his lungs, which was likely given that he had fluid on his lungs, the surgery wouldn't have been a success and we would have lost him anyway, albeit after they had trousered 9 grand.

[Neil]

I had a similar experience with my Staffie, who I lost in 2020. He had a large growth on his ribcage are, which went from golf ball to tennis ball size in a couple of weeks. He also had a cough and was not keen on exercise, totally out of character for Ron as he lived for chasing a tennis ball around. I took him to our vet who referred us to a local specialist place for a scan. We found that the lack of desire for exercise was that he had fluid on his lungs so was causing him to be out of breath very quickly and that the tumour was cancerous. Ron was approaching 11 years old at this time. We also found that his insurance would not cover this, as he had previously been treated for a small growth on his skin, which came and went without issue some years previously. The vets started talking about scans, and then the options for surgery, which included removal of one or more ribs plus part of his chest wall. We were looking in the region of 9 grand for all of this. Given that he was 11 years old and there could be no guarantee of quality of life if they carrier all this work out, we took the decision not to put him through surgery and that we would take him home, then to our usual vets for our goodbyes and the dreaded one way trip.

Once it was clear that we were not going to opt for surgery, the vet then told us that if the cancer had spread to his lungs, which was likely given that he had fluid on his lungs, the surgery wouldn't have been a success and we would have lost him anyway, albeit after they had trousered 9 grand.

Seems a lot more common than you'd imagine based on the research I've been doing.

Even little things like painkillers they're charging £30 and you can get the same ones online for £3.99

[Neil]

Update for those that have shown an interest

The dog owner has blocked my number so all bets are off.
I have just rang the police who are coming out at 8am tomorrow morning.
I have found out who the low life is and made plans to speak to a solicitor tomorrow and will ask the police for advice on who to contact in terms of animal control

[Herts Clarets]

Seems a lot more common than you'd imagine based on the research I've been doing.

Even little things like painkillers they're charging £30 and you can get the same ones online for £3.99

Investigation announced into vet bills....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx00dl5gwp8o

[Neil]

Investigation announced into vet bills....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx00dl5gwp8o

Yeah I really hate vets now

Been reading the guy who plays the vicar on Coronation Street was on tv the the other week complaining about it. He had an itemised bill and paid £27 quid for paracetamol and found the same ones for 38p online.

Police been round this morning and taking it very seriously.

[bfcmatt]

For information, when my elderly dog was quite poorly and needed medication, I asked for a prescription instead. You are under no obligation to buy the medication from your vet. They will charge you a fee to write the prescription but the total cost including medication bought on line was a lot less (around £30 each month). Well worth doing.

[Neil]

For information, when my elderly dog was quite poorly and needed medication, I asked for a prescription instead. You are under no obligation to buy the medication from your vet. They will charge you a fee to write the prescription but the total cost including medication bought on line was a lot less (around £30 each month). Well worth doing.

Yeah, I think people just think of it as an overall bill,.don't request a breakdown and blindly pay it.

I'll be charged £50 tomorrow to change a bandage.
Surely after forking out £500 the other day it's part of the same treatment???

[bfcmatt]

Yeah, I think people just think of it as an overall bill,.don't request a breakdown and blindly pay it.

I'll be charged £50 tomorrow to change a bandage.
Surely after forking out £500 the other day it's part of the same treatment???

It really shouldn't be charged for, it's part of the same treatment.