It's not my favourite model but top level, professional football has undoubtedly changed - in this utterly bonkers 'brave new world' of pro footy, unseen events and situations can quite literally come out of nowhere.

This week's news to me highlights the naivety of entrusting our entire football operation to one man and his (rather bloated) team.

Such reliance can cause all prior planning and preparation to become obsolete in the face of sudden change, leaving us (as it has now) pretty stranded.

Establishing a Director of Football and an independent footballing operation ensures continuity and cohesion during unforeseen circumstances.

I've been saying it for a while but we really do need more seasoned, proper football men at the club.

Over to you, Alan Pace

Roy hodgson

David Moyes

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:18 pm

Roy hodgson

Aye, someone who is 3 and a bit years of being 80. That’s got continuity and longevity written all over it.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:44 pm

Aye, someone who is 3 and a bit years of being 80. That’s got continuity and longevity written all over it.

He’ll live until he’s 100 that guy. Was still pinging balls in training a season or 2 ago. He only needs to offer his experience. Stop being an agist

I assume we won't be using MUD analytics for our recruitment this summer? Remember people mocking when this was questioned not that long ago.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:48 pm

I assume we won't be using MUD analytics for our recruitment this summer? Remember people mocking when this was questioned not that long ago.

Aye - it was me (and others) that got mocked when I suggested that having a managers' part owned company being solely used for our recruitment was naive at best, for any situations like what is happening right now (though nobody could have predicted this madness).

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:50 pm

Aye - it was me (and others) that got mocked when I suggested that having a managers' part owned company being solely used for our recruitment was naive at best, for any situations like what is happening right now (though nobody could have predicted this madness).

Just a manager, full back room staff and now recruitment team to get in before next month….exciting times

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:48 pm

I assume we won't be using MUD analytics for our recruitment this summer? Remember people mocking when this was questioned not that long ago.

It looked strange from the outside, particularly if we weren’t putting things in place as a club. It was onvious that it’d cause massive upheaval as soon as he was to depart.

Is your argument that we shouldn’t centre all our footballing operations on one man ….. and that to resolve that we should centre all our football operations on one man?

Socrates wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:53 pm

Is your argument that we shouldn’t centre all our footballing operations on one man ….. and that to resolve that we should centre all our football operations on one man?

No, Socrates, that's not my point. Although I mentioned establishing a D.O.F., which is indeed a single position, I also emphasised the need for an 'independent footballing operation'.

This means a team approach, not just one person controlling everything. The D.O.F. would lead, but the operation itself would involve multiple experts to ensure we're not reliant on just one individual.

the club needs to take back control, huge mistakes have been made.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:02 pm

the club needs to take back control, huge mistakes have been made.

Undoubtedly Vegas - it is what it is but they have to learn and learn quickly.

My (and others') concerns have come to fruition. I do think Pace & co will learn from this though - I may disagree with a lot of what they do but they aren't idiots.

Someone like Mike phelan to come in and help a manager

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:04 pm

Undoubtedly Vegas - it is what it is but they have to learn and learn quickly.

My (and others') concerns have come to fruition. I do think Pace & co will learn from this though - I may disagree with a lot of what they do but they aren't idiots.

they've got an almighty decision to make now and it's one they simply cannot afford to get wrong given the finances.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:08 pm

Someone like Mike phelan to come in and help a manager

Good shout. Still local as well I believe.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:09 pm

Good shout. Still local as well I believe.

Might be in his 60s now but still lots of knowledge to pass down

Pace seems to fall in love with whoever the manager is! Need to stop being so naive and learn about loyalty in football.

This will be used as a classic case study in why club's should handle recruitment themselves and keep a firewall between football operations for the entire club - and the first team head coach.

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:10 pm

Might be in his 60s now but still lots of knowledge to pass down

A local club for local people.

Looking forward to everyone with a previous Burnley connection being linked all summer while everyone not born with 30 miles of Smacks’s bottom bar gets sniffed at…

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 11:12 pm

Pace seems to fall in love with whoever the manager is! Need to stop being so naive and learn about loyalty in football.

Loyalty and football only belong together when referring to fans.

Everything and everybody else are just ships that pass in the night.

The sooner this message gets through their thick skulls, the better it will be
and we can move forward together as a much more cohesive and potent force.

Here's hoping.

What happens if the director of football leaves?

Enola Gay wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:45 am

A local club for local people.

Looking forward to everyone with a previous Burnley connection being linked all summer while everyone not born with 30 miles of Smacks’s bottom bar gets sniffed at…

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:29 am

What happens if the director of football leaves?

We get a new one.

Socrates wrote: ↑

Wed May 22, 2024 10:53 pm

Is your argument that we shouldn’t centre all our footballing operations on one man ….. and that to resolve that we should centre all our football operations on one man?

Odd take this for me.

The argument is that you need someone whose job is focused on long term planning and oversight to ensure the short term considerations of the manager don't trump good long term strategy, and there there is suitable succession planning in place should the manager leave to avoid undue disruption. It is the same principle as any corporate having a chairman of the board and a chief executive. Of course either could leave but either way you get more continuity and you avoid concentrating too much power in one person's hands.

We're miles behind on this. Virtually every top 30 club has this structure in one form or other because it just makes sense.

Enola Gay wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:45 am

A local club for local people.

Looking forward to everyone with a previous Burnley connection being linked all summer while everyone not born with 30 miles of Smacks’s bottom bar gets sniffed at…

I remember in 2004 when Stan was leaving and people on the message board throwing in Chris Brass as an option. I know there were circumstances but he'd just taken York out of the Football League. Surprised there has been no mention of Flynny yet although we'd have to pay compensation to his current club.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 9:15 am

Odd take this for me.

The argument is that you need someone whose job is focused on long term planning and oversight to ensure the short term considerations of the manager don't trump good long term strategy, and there there is suitable succession planning in place should the manager leave to avoid undue disruption. It is the same principle as any corporate having a chairman of the board and a chief executive. Of course either could leave but either way you get more continuity and you avoid concentrating too much power in one person's hands.

We're miles behind on this. Virtually every top 30 club has this structure in one form or other because it just makes sense.

You know I've always disagreed with you on this claretspice but I'm very much with you now. We've thrown all our eggs into the one basket here and then thrown even more eggs in. This could be a big mess to get out of.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 11:45 am

You know I've always disagreed with you on this claretspice but I'm very much with you now. We've thrown all our eggs into the one basket here and then thrown even more eggs in. This could be a big mess to get out of.

Please explain the ‘big mess’ to me. Genuinely intrigued.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 11:50 am

Please explain the ‘big mess’ to me. Genuinely intrigued.

Some of what you post seems sensible at times but that other times you come across as a fantasist. In what world are we not in a mess now? You’ll struggle to find many in football that would not agree with that statement, including the Burnley board. Regardless of what they might put into the public domain, the board will be in crisis talks to manage what it is a totally unexpected situation.

It’s not irreparable, and we can still come out of this well and be successful next season, but the board are going to have to show some serious nous to ensure we don’t end with serious problems.

PremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 11:58 am

Some of what you post seems sensible at times but that other times you come across as a fantasist. In what world are we not in a mess now? You’ll struggle to find many in football that would not agree with that statement, including the Burnley board. Regardless of what they might put into the public domain, the board will be in crisis talks to manage what it is a totally unexpected situation.

It’s not irreparable, and we can still come out of this well and be successful next season, but the board are going to have to show some serious nous to ensure we don’t end with serious problems.

I would say we are in a better position then we were two years ago where we had an aging squad and set to lose the bulk of all our best players. A wrong managerial appointment two years ago could have left us in real trouble but luckily we got Kompany who worked wonders.

It depends on what players we lose but we have a squad full of young talent that will improve and plenty of saleable options to balance the books but again it will all hinge on whether we get the right manager to replace Kompany.

I feel far more confident of bouncing back up this season than I did two years ago and if you go back two years the doom brigade were going on about us going bankrupt and being in serious financial trouble. The madness is the massive overaction we get from people on here and other social media sites whereas in truth we are simply a decent managerial appointment away from having another brilliant season and another promotion

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 9:15 am

Odd take this for me.

The argument is that you need someone whose job is focused on long term planning and oversight to ensure the short term considerations of the manager don't trump good long term strategy, and there there is suitable succession planning in place should the manager leave to avoid undue disruption. It is the same principle as any corporate having a chairman of the board and a chief executive. Of course either could leave but either way you get more continuity and you avoid concentrating too much power in one person's hands.

We're miles behind on this. Virtually every top 30 club has this structure in one form or other because it just makes sense.

Funnily enough, this appeared to be what the appointment of Mike Rigg was starting to do though for whatever reason (and it could have just been Rigg wasn't very good) it was soon apparent that a power struggle emerged, which Dyche eventually won when Rigg was potted shortly after Pace and ALK arrived, they were giving him whatever he wanted at the time - remember those contract extensions in January 2021.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:15 pm

I would say we are in a better position then we were two years ago where we had an aging squad and set to lose the bulk of all our best players. A wrong managerial appointment two years ago could have left us in real trouble but luckily we got Kompany who worked wonders.

It depends on what players we lose but we have a squad full of young talent that will improve and plenty of saleable options to balance the books but again it will all hinge on whether we get the right manager to replace Kompany.

I feel far more confident of bouncing back up this season than I did two years ago and if you go back two years the doom brigade were going on about us going bankrupt and being in serious financial trouble. The madness is the massive overaction we get from people on here and other social media sites whereas in truth we are simply a decent managerial appointment away from having another brilliant season and another promotion

Our financial circumstance was a lot more defined last time - we knew what to expect to a greater degree and incomes were not hampered significantly by multiple factoring arrangements - this time accounts are not so revealing because they were signed off early, preventing us from understanding the new loan situation with MGG - if we are to get compensation for VK it may help with a forced repayment, though there is no guarantee that it comes all at once - so it may well be factored.

Then there is the warning in the accounts about what happens should player sales not meet expectations, which is what would happen in a weak market or when a club appears vulnerable, ask Everton or Nottingham Forest or just look to the summer of 2022. I also look at the the current market and ask, what can clubs do to change things if they do not have money to spend (maybe for FFP/PSR reason)? They change manager/coach. So, given that there is apparently a lot of activity in the manager/coach area does this mean clubs do not have a lot to spend on transfers?

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 9:15 am

Odd take this for me.

We're miles behind on this. Virtually every top 30 club has this structure in one form or other because it just makes sense.

I think we were the first British club to appoint a general manager Harry Potts to oversee the young Manager Brian Miller.

I most definitely would exclude Scottish-born fans. Clearly fifth-columnists.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:26 pm

Our financial circumstance was a lot more defined last time - we knew what to expect to a greater degree and incomes were not hampered significantly by multiple factoring arrangements - this time accounts are not so revealing because they were signed off early, preventing us from understanding the new loan situation with MGG - if we are to get compensation for VK it may help with a forced repayment, though there is no guarantee that it comes all at once - so it may well be factored.

Then there is the warning in the accounts about what happens should player sales not meet expectations, which is what would happen in a weak market or when a club appears vulnerable, ask Everton or Nottingham Forest or just look to the summer of 2022. I also look at the the current market and ask, what can clubs do to change things if they do not have money to spend (maybe for FFP/PSR reason)? They change manager/coach. So, given that there is apparently a lot of activity in the manager/coach area does this mean clubs do not have a lot to spend on transfers?

Yep but this nothing to do with the madness people are perceiving about the Kompany situation and the need for a director of football. There was always a risk with the ALK takeover and ownership model that they might over stretch us and take risks around our debt to achieve the success they want but as it stands we have a lot of very saleable assets and a strong squad. With a decent manager I think we are in a much stronger position than we were in at this point two years ago and if we get promotion I dont think we are in any greater financial risk than we were two years ago.

What Pace an co decide to do with our success in terms of paying of debt or containing to burden us more in the chase of success is another matter and at some point we arent going to bounce back and thats when we'll really see where we are and there's a good chance it wont be pretty

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:26 pm

Our financial circumstance was a lot more defined last time - we knew what to expect to a greater degree and incomes were not hampered significantly by multiple factoring arrangements - this time accounts are not so revealing because they were signed off early, preventing us from understanding the new loan situation with MGG - if we are to get compensation for VK it may help with a forced repayment, though there is no guarantee that it comes all at once - so it may well be factored.

Then there is the warning in the accounts about what happens should player sales not meet expectations, which is what would happen in a weak market or when a club appears vulnerable, ask Everton or Nottingham Forest or just look to the summer of 2022. I also look at the the current market and ask, what can clubs do to change things if they do not have money to spend (maybe for FFP/PSR reason)? They change manager/coach. So, given that there is apparently a lot of activity in the manager/coach area does this mean clubs do not have a lot to spend on transfers?

Yet Kompany commented last week how last time parachute payments would not pay off debts like they had to last time. And how the team wouldn’t need ripping apart like last time. Accounts are a snapshot of a (historic) moment in time and unfortunately a limitation is only seeing them once a year.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:49 pm

Yet Kompany commented last week how last time in the Champ parachute payments paid off debts, inferring it wasn’t the case this time.

Correcting this awful English**

Agree we need a DOF as I'm not convinced that the current owners have a clue about English football. They need someone, not the manager, to guide them. Not a case of, Alan we are going to use my database, sure Vin, go guy.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:35 pm

I think we were the first British club to appoint a general manager Harry Potts to oversee the young Manager Brian Miller.

Adamson was the manager when Potts became general manager (1970-1972). And he certainly wasn’t overseeing anything, he would tell you he didn’t have a job to do and Adamson banned him from Gawthorpe.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 11:50 am

Please explain the ‘big mess’ to me. Genuinely intrigued.

No manager
No coaching staff
No recruitment team

You would have imagined everything was in place for this window, targets etc. which has now disappeared.

Huge playing staff with departing manager having decided which ones he was happy to see leave, either permanently or on loan. New manager will start from scratch to an extent.

It might not to you, but that looks a very concerning mess to me.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:04 pm

Adamson was the manager when Potts became general manager (1970-1972). And he certainly wasn’t overseeing anything, he would tell you he didn’t have a job to do and Adamson banned him from Gawthorpe.

Before my time as you know, but I remember reading Potts was listed as general manager in the later 70’s programme before leaving to take over at Blackpool. As I mentioned on a Twitter post yesterday it was too far ahead of its time and would make a good option now given how much a manager controls and the speed of change.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:08 pm

No manager
No coaching staff
No recruitment team

You would have imagined everything was in place for this window, targets etc. which has now disappeared.

Huge playing staff with departing manager having decided which ones he was happy to see leave, either permanently or on loan. New manager will start from scratch to an extent.

It might not to you, but that looks a very concerning mess to me.

Many teams go through stages of having no manager / staff. It’s not an unusual circumstance. I’m not sure how we know there will be no recruitment team, it seems very speculative to suggest all the recruitment team will uproot. I’d be very surprised if that’s the case. From the sounds of it your concerns will perhaps be addressed with the appointment of a new manager, which is naturally the key here. But it sounded like you wanted Kompany gone for a little while so I thought you might be embracing the change.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:13 pm

Before my time as you know, but I remember reading Potts was listed as general manager in the later 70’s programme before leaving to take over at Blackpool. As I mentioned on a Twitter post yesterday it was too far ahead of its time and would make a good option now given how much a manager controls and the speed of change.

It was 1970-1972 and he went to Blackpool as manager later in 1972 before coming back to Burnley as chief scout and then manager again.

He was totally marginalised by Lord & Adamson in 1970 and his title of general manager was merely a title with no job. It was nothing ahead of its time, he had no job but we still had to pay his contract. Awful way to treat him.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 11:50 am

Please explain the ‘big mess’ to me. Genuinely intrigued.

Is that a serious question ?
Are you really “genuinely intrigued” ?

We have just been relegated after spending £100m plus.

We have a number of very expensive players who have had awful seasons or who have long term injuries and we still have 75% of their transfer fee to pay.

Our debt is the highest it’s ever been in our history.

And whatever long term plan we might have had has just gone out of the window as the manager and all his staff are leaving.

Happy days eh

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:08 pm

No manager
No coaching staff
No recruitment team

You would have imagined everything was in place for this window, targets etc. which has now disappeared.

Huge playing staff with departing manager having decided which ones he was happy to see leave, either permanently or on loan. New manager will start from scratch to an extent.

It might not to you, but that looks a very concerning mess to me.

You would imagine, with maybe a couple of exceptions, there is less likelihood of targets he had in mind for Burnley, being poached and signed instead for Bayern.

Coyle to Bolton it is not.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:17 pm

It was 1970-1972 and he went to Blackpool as manager later in 1972 before coming back to Burnley as chief scout and then manager again.

He was totally marginalised by Lord & Adamson in 1970 and his title of general manager was merely a title with no job. It was nothing ahead of its time, he had no job but we still had to pay his contract. Awful way to treat him.

I do remember it did not go well but did not know the problem.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:16 pm

Many teams go through stages of having no manager / staff. It’s not an unusual circumstance. I’m not sure how we know there will be no recruitment team, it seems very speculative to suggest all the recruitment team will uproot. I’d be very surprised if that’s the case. From the sounds of it your concerns will perhaps be addressed with the appointment of a new manager, which is naturally the key here. But it sounded like you wanted Kompany gone for a little while so I thought you might be embracing the change.

That may be, but with the amount of wheeling and dealing and unrest, its not a given for the new manager to turn it around for immediate promotion

"I’m not sure how we know there will be no recruitment team"

wasn't it Kompany company

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:24 pm

"I’m not sure how we know there will be no recruitment team"

wasn't it Kompany company

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 1:20 pm

That may be, but with the amount of wheeling and dealing and unrest, its not a given for the new manager to turn it around for immediate promotion

First point - do we know in what capacity MUD is being used? Did it run the entire recruitment operation? What even is it? Is it a new technology (similar to StatsBomb, which the club also uses) or is it a team? Were they acting on a consultancy type basis? How many team members were there and what are their roles exactly? Why would they uproot, where to? Bayern have their own set up and managers are known not to get any say in transfers.

Second point - fair enough and of course it’s not a given but it’s an amazing opportunity for an ambitious, exciting coach to take on. We have the strongest squad in the league as it stands and there will be budget for new players who they want. Oh and we are still a week away from the end of May… it’s not like this has happened in pre-season, or worse, when the season has started? So much time.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 12:49 pm

Yet Kompany commented last week how last time parachute payments would not pay off debts like they had to last time. And how the team wouldn’t need ripping apart like last time. Accounts are a snapshot of a (historic) moment in time and unfortunately a limitation is only seeing them once a year.

It was quite apparent that parachute payments didn't pay off the debts last time - £20m was paid before we received any of them in the accounts for the final Dyche season. The accounts for the 2022/23 season saw a cumulative loss of £36m before tax, where the club voluntarily paid off a further £12.2m of the MSD loan (possibly with a penalty of over £2m) then refinanced the £32.8m residue of the MSD loan twice lifting the debt to first £39.7m then £70m as well as factoring the transfers of Collins and Pope before factoring 3 seasons of Premier League and Parachute Payments.

That £70m loan was subject to a £4.6m repayment during the season - we do not know if that happened before the loan was once again refinanced in January this year or indeed what the agreement on that loan entails

Both Kompany and Dyche have made pronouncements on the finances of the club that were later shown as not being what they purported them to be. Kompany's exit may ease a short term financial headache - short term enforced capital repayment but the theme of the club chasing cash (at high expense) to meet pressing short term requirements is one that has only been consistently getting strong under this ownership.