Title winning Burnley team 1960’s?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

For those that saw this could you give us an idea how the team setup ( formations etc) and who the players remind you of these days or from the nineties onwards?

Just a distraction from all the recent goings on.

It would be good to get an idea from folks that experienced it.

[Darnhill Claret]

2-3-5, with the five usually playing in a W formation. Our left side of the three would be defensive and our right side of the three was more attacking. We would usually use the 8 and 10 as link players or the 10 as a twin striker, as in Lochhead and Irvine. Wingers to go wide and cross or our number 8 to go wide allowing our 7 to go inside. Much would be determined by the strengths of the eleven selected individuals. And before subs you usually had a confirmed first eleven.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

2-3-5, with the five usually playing in a W formation. Our left side of the three would be defensive and our right side of the three was more attacking. We would usually use the 8 and 10 as link players or the 10 as a twin striker, as in Lochhead and Irvine. Wingers to go wide and cross or our number 8 to go wide allowing our 7 to go inside. Much would be determined by the strengths of the eleven selected individuals. And before subs you usually had a confirmed first eleven.

That’s interesting do you mean five at the back or five upfront?

[Darnhill Claret]

We had great full backs and the sixties was a time of significant tactical change. Don Revie as a player was one of the first false 9's. There was John 'budgie Byrne and Johnny Crossan. When Revie went into management he moved his outside left, (winger) Terry Cooper to left back and persevered with him as an overlapping winger, allowing the likes of Albert Johannson and Eddie Gray a free rein as to how they attacked the opposing full back.

[Darnhill Claret]

Our full backs would venture upfield supporting our wingers but didn't often get ahead of them, but we played triangles and had a very good footballing team, easy on the eye,, and able to get the ball forward very quickly. We transitioned well from the experienced title winning team, to new blood coming through so the sixties was full of great Burnley players and for a while we were able to replace those that we transferred out from Burnley, until the production line started to dry up in the mid sixties and we had to start transferring in.

[Darnhill Claret]

Late sixties, early seventies we had talented individuals but the team became weaker until we lost our top flight status after 24 consecutive seasons.

[Darnhill Claret]

Five up front. You've seen some of the scorelines I expect.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Five up front. You've seen some of the scorelines I expect.

Ha sweet I’ll go and have a look in the archives.

Sounds like teams got absolutely mullered . Seriously confident formation with absolute beasts at the back

[Quicknick]

1960. It would be nice if we'd won it throughout the 60s, though.

[Eyesofblue2]

It always looked like 4-2-4 to me. Back four Angus Cummings Miller Elder, Jimmy Mac and Adamson midfield, two wingers, two strikers.

[Darnhill Claret]

It was officially, keeper, 2 full backs, a 3 of as I said a centre half and two wing halves, usually one defensive, (twin centre half) and an attacking wing half (midfielder). The forward 5 as I tried to explain before, would usually be two wingers, a centre forward and two inside forwards. The number 8 m8ght be a floater, or attacking midfielder or a dribbler. The 10 m8ght be the twin striker, but changes up front were happen8ng.

[Darnhill Claret]

The deep lying centre forward or false 9 was being tried. Alf Ramsay in the 1966 World Cup took the brave step of not playing conventional wingers. Instead he had Bobby Charlton who had originally been a winger, playing deep, creating space in front of him, ready for the ball to be played into the area in front of him, so that he could run onto the ball and strike it first time or two touch. Of course he had the speed and ability to take it past an opponent before shooting. Charlton had an excellent ability to strike the ball on the run. He deployed Alan Ball as a midfield runner to use the space wide where the winger would have been but he was essentially, an up and down nonstop runner. Martin Peters was another front player who played behind the front two, ghosting into the area late, whilst our front two were being man marked, usually.

[Tricky Trevor]

Can’t add much to the but whatever the system we played the opposition were playing the same until England won the World Cup and Ramseys wingless wonders changed football.

[Darnhill Claret]

Our twin strikers that day were, Roger Hunt and Geoff Hurst, who had replaced the injured Jimmy Greaves in the quarter-final and semi-final. Although Jimmy Greaves was declared fit for the final, Alf Ramsay decided to keep the winning team from the previous game. This was quite a controversial decision as Jimmy Greaves was our number one goalscorer at the time. However there were no dissenting voices after the game although it is thought by some, that Jimmy Greaves never got over it.

[Darnhill Claret]

Yes, can't argue with 4-2-4. Think it's fair to say we were fluid and could switch when necessary, when attacking or defending. It was a time when Walter Winterbottom had started making formation changes to the national side. I think it's fair to say that there had been a lot of innovative changes during the fifties and these were now being used in International games. We didn't want to have a repeat of being thrashed at home by the great Hungarian national team, especially hosting the World Cup, so Alf's wingless wonders, changed the game again. Thankfully that experiment paid off. It was certainly the best 7se of the players available. That success meant that club football would continue changing and for a while it became about teams trying to prevent the opposition from scoring. That was dealt with by changing to 3 points for a win, and coaches trying to find tactics to open up tight defences. And eventually, we've arrived at possession games via Pep G, with a lot of changes in between, but it's getting late and it would take too long to try and summarise too many changes and developments. I was initially trying to answer the OP briefly but every reply required another. Apologies.

[Corway]

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Burnley were playing a renewed system in English football "where every player could play in every position" under manager Harry Potts.This Total Football system led the club to the 1959–60 First Division title and won many plaudits,
We were one of the few clubs with a training ground and he used that to develop new tactics such as the short corner. Much was made of wingers getting to the byeline.
crosses by the wingers Jimmy McIlroy used to torment opposition players with his ball skills in the middle, a bit like Grealish does on the wing.

[Darnhill Claret]

Although that might be a written blurb, the Burnley attackers were quite conventional but highly skilled. McIlroy, schemer with great skills could float around the 7,8 position and anywhere that his footballing instincts took him. I take it that we were more fluid than others but 'every player could play in every position' I think was more of a tactical desire and aim rather than an actual achievement. Whether we were 2-3-5, or 4-2-4, our full backs were full backs, our half back line was a half back line and our forwards had two wingers, a centre forward, a number 10 or twin striker and a number 8, schemer, playmaker or inside forward. As a very young spectator, I can't say that I ever saw unusual positional play from the early 60's until 2 seasons ago when Ian Maatsen and Connor Roberts would pop up all over the place, Cullen would fill in wherever needed and Muric would patrol the halfway line.
I've seen Burnley players who had the skills to play in numerous positions like, Martin Dobson and Andy Farrell, but I've never seen us play how Rinus Michels wanted the Dutch to play.

[Corway]

At the start of the 1959/60 season due to the wage cap a player could expect to earn £20 a week during the season, dropping to £17 a week during the summer. In addition, they could expect to earn a bonus of £4 for a win and £2 for a draw.
Many of our team were part timers working in the mines to stop them being called up for national service. They often travelled to home games with fans by bus as few had cars.
We were one of the fittest teams through having the training ground and an effective scouting system to identify young talent and develop it.
Not long after our win football changed forever with the abolition of the minimum wage in Jan 1961 with Jimmy Haynes being the first £100 a week player and televising of games in 1964.
Bob Lord our dictatorial Chairmen objected to both and as a result no games have been televised between 3 and 5 on a Saturday. His role in our success was significant and he chaired the club from 1955 to 1981.
After the wage cap went we had to sell to compete with big city clubs and gradual decline followed

[Eyesofblue2]

Of course we were fluid positionally, we didn't stick rigidly to 4-2-4, but basically we played a back four, two CMs, two wingers and two strikers. I can remember one of the inside forwards, as 8 and 10 were called back then, being called a schemer, the wing halfs, 4 and 6, would be described as attacking or defensive. Our schemer was Jimmy Mac who dropped back to play alongside the attacking wing half who was Adamson, they were basically the link between defence and attack, John White and Danny Blanchflower performed similar roles for Spurs. Teams were printed in the programmes in a 2-3-5 formation, I never saw any team use that actual formation in a game.

[ClaretTony]

The team that played most of the games that season were always listed in 2-3-5 as were every team at the time.

Ours was:
Adam Blacklaw
John Angus Alex Elder
Bobby Seith Jimmy Adamson Brian Miller
John Connelly Jimmy McIlroy Ray Pointer Jimmy Robson Brian Pilkington


2 full backs
3 in half back line - right half, centre half and left half - you would usually find one of the wing halves was more a midfielder and one more a defender so in our case it was Seith more midfield and Miller more defence
5 in forward line with two wingers, a centre forward and two inside forwards. Again the inside forwards, one was a midfielder McIlroy and one more a forward Robson.

So listed 2-3-5 but in a lot of ways it was 4-4-2 or 4-2-4 which would have been

Adam Blacklaw
John Angus Jimmy Adamson Brian Miller Alex Elder
John Connelly Bobby Seith Jimmy McIlroy Brian Pilkington
Ray Pointer Jimmy Robson

[Der_Groninger_Claret]

I read Tim Quelch’s “Never Had It So Good” about our 1959-60 season. In the book, there is a passage where Jimmy Adamson described the team’s playing style as follows: “We liked to keep our game fluid. We didn’t believe in sticking to numbers on our backs. If the full-back suddenly found himself in the momentary role of a winger, then he got on with it, and someone else took over his job in the rear. Burnley played their football “off the cuff”.” There was also a part in the book where the great Billy Wright described our style of play as “progressing [from defense to attack] by nicely controlled patterns with every man searching hungrily for space”. This indeed seems like an early incarnation of Total Football.

There were other teams who played a Total Football style, such as Hungary in the 1950s and Austria in the 1930s. All these teams and players/managers (e.g., Michels, Cruyff, Hungary and Austria) were of course very much directly or indirectly influenced by Jimmy Hogan, a local lad and Burnley supporter, who wanted to teach those from the continent “how to play properly” from the 1910s onwards.

There is also an excellent article about the 1959-60 season on the internet: https://shorturl.at/DqpK1

[Buxtonclaret]

I read Tim Quelch’s “Never Had It So Good” about our 1959-60 season. In the book, there is a passage where Jimmy Adamson described the team’s playing style as follows: “We liked to keep our game fluid. We didn’t believe in sticking to numbers on our backs. If the full-back suddenly found himself in the momentary role of a winger, then he got on with it, and someone else took over his job in the rear. Burnley played their football “off the cuff”.” There was also a part in the book where the great Billy Wright described our style of play as “progressing [from defense to attack] by nicely controlled patterns with every man searching hungrily for space”. This indeed seems like an early incarnation of Total Football.

There were other teams who played a Total Football style, such as Hungary in the 1950s and Austria in the 1930s. All these teams and players/managers (e.g., Michels, Cruyff, Hungary and Austria) were of course very much directly or indirectly influenced by Jimmy Hogan, a local lad and Burnley supporter, who wanted to teach those from the continent “how to play properly” from the 1910s onwards.

There is also an excellent article about the 1959-60 season on the internet: https://shorturl.at/DqpK1

Great Post.
Excellent read.

[CleggHall]

In addition to the many points above, the championship winning side of 1960 were immensely strong. All were hardened professionals who could take a knock or 2 and play on very heavy muddy pitches for 90+ minutes. No substitutes in those days! The European Cup campaign in 60/61 was particularly onerous, Turf Moor was a quagmire and eventually the lads ran out of steam. A pity but they were a joy to watch for this then young supporter, football at its very best!

[basil6345789]

1 inside forward was "the schemer" - like Mac and John White, the other a twin striker, like Phillips and Crawford

[FCBurnley]

Whatever the formation WE WERE SUPERB and should have won more titles

[ClaretTony]

1 inside forward was "the schemer" - like Mac and John White, the other a twin striker, like Phillips and Crawford

Schemer - that’s a term long gone from the game. My dad always said that Potts was a schemer.

[Corway]

Agree we should have won more
Chances in 60/61 ruined by 4 extra midweek European games and not winning many league games either side and having 12 of our 42 games in April. The league fined us for playing largely a reserve team against Chelsea
the Saturday before going to Hamburg - they drew 4-4

Should have won league in 61/2 having been 8 points or so ahead, but the wheels came off in March as we won through to the Cup Final in a replay with hopes of a double we only got 8 points from the last 11 games.
Then lost in the final to Spurs!
The players tanks were empty from 12 more games in April.

[Buxtonclaret]

Schemer - that’s a term long gone from the game. My dad always said that Potts was a schemer.

Too many 'screamers' now.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Great thread. Growing up in the 90s I used to love listening to old football stories from my grandad about the team in the 50/60s and how good we were back then.

[ClaretTony]

Great thread. Growing up in the 90s I used to love listening to old football stories from my grandad about the team in the 50/60s and how good we were back then.

Reminded me of a story back in 2009 when we went to Spurs for the League Cup semi (sorry for bringing that up). We were early and went into the club store at White Hart Lane and this young lad came up to us and asked how long it had taken to get down. He said he was going to Burnley for the second leg because his granddad had said he should go, that Burnley/Spurs games were always special.

And I recall going to Wembley in 2017 to play them and walking up from the tube station with a Spurs fan much older than me. We talked all the way p to the stadium about Blanchflower/Adamson - Connelly/Jones - White/McIlroy etc.

Amazing two teams at the time and that Burnley team - unbelievable now to think back and realise and understand just how good we were.

"How good was McIlroy?" Gary Hickson asked Richard Dinnis on Radio Lancs on the day we announced his name was going on the stand. "Think of the best midfielder in the Premier League today," said DInnis. "McIlroy was better."

[Royboyclaret]

Wow....special thread is this one.....where did this come from ?

So much to add.

[Silkyskills1]

Season 1961-62 I saw what I believe to be one of our greatest ever performances. 13 th January and .an City at Turf Moor, a wet Turf Moor too but that only added to the sheer joy and excitement.
Still only 9 years old, so what did I really know about football? Well, enough to realise that I was watching live some of the best players in the country each week.
We won the game. 6-3, 4-2 at half time. Totally breathtaking and exhilarating fare. My favourite player then and still today was Jimmy McIlroy and on this particular day I think he was very close to that oft seen word 'unplayable'. Teasing, tormenting the life out of the opposition so much so that City left back, Cliff Sear, left the pitch for a while in the second half suffering from what was described at the time as 'nervous palpitations'. I don't know what the definition is but I'm guessing that Cliff Sear had seen more than enough of Jimmy that day to last him a lifetime. Balance, passing accuracy and of course, dribbling( what's that some may be asking) were all on show from the maestro. Think he bagged two goals as well but would need that confirmed. Then back to Haslingden on the bus with my dad, my programme and memories that I've recalled today. Played Birmingham at home 3 weeks later and that finished 7-1 to us( we'd won at their place in September 61 by 6 goals to 2. Privileged? Damned right I was.

[Royboyclaret]

Season 1961-62 I saw what I believe to be one of our greatest ever performances. 13 th January and .an City at Turf Moor, a wet Turf Moor too but that only added to the sheer joy and excitement.
Still only 9 years old, so what did I really know about football? Well, enough to realise that I was watching live some of the best players in the country each week.
We won the game. 6-3, 4-2 at half time. Totally breathtaking and exhilarating fare. My favourite player then and still today was Jimmy McIlroy and on this particular day I think he was very close to that oft seen word 'unplayable'. Teasing, tormenting the life out of the opposition so much so that City left back, Cliff Sear, left the pitch for a while in the second half suffering from what was described at the time as 'nervous palpitations'. I don't know what the definition is but I'm guessing that Cliff Sear had seen more than enough of Jimmy that day to last him a lifetime. Balance, passing accuracy and of course, dribbling( what's that some may be asking) were all on show from the maestro. Think he bagged two goals as well but would need that confirmed. Then back to Haslingden on the bus with my dad, my programme and memories that I've recalled today. Played Birmingham at home 3 weeks later and that finished 7-1 to us( we'd won at their place in September 61 by 6 goals to 2. Privileged? Damned right I was.

Brilliant Silky......that second goal from Mac just before half-time was something to be behold.

[Vino blanco]

I watched every home game of the 1st Division Title winning season and was one of those at Maine Road to see us win the title.
We played a basic 4-2-4 system with a back five of:
Blacklaw
Angus Cummings Miller Elder
though both full backs would get forward constantly to suppor the two man midfield of Adamson (defensive) and McIlroy (attacking) and the wingers.
The front forward 4 were Connelly on the right wing, Pilkington on the left wing, with Ponter playing the pacy centre forward role supported by Robson as a second striker on the left or right of Pointer. Mac, Connely, Robson and Pointer however would all play with fluidity with Pointer moving out wide and Connelly cutting and staying inside as another striker. Mac, who pulled all the attacking strings, would play across the full width of the pitch at his best around the opposition box.
The formation reminded me of the way the 1958 Brazil World Cup Winners played: that is a fluid 4-2-4.

[Royboyclaret]

Silkyskills refers to that home game against Birmingham...and that final goal in the 7-1 win.

It was Mac, yet again, that scored that last goal just before the end.....Most apologetic to the opposition that day and they knew it.......Burnley were simply that good.....What a time to be a Claret.

[Quicknick]

I read Tim Quelch’s “Never Had It So Good” about our 1959-60 season. In the book, there is a passage where Jimmy Adamson described the team’s playing style as follows: “We liked to keep our game fluid. We didn’t believe in sticking to numbers on our backs. If the full-back suddenly found himself in the momentary role of a winger, then he got on with it, and someone else took over his job in the rear. Burnley played their football “off the cuff”.” There was also a part in the book where the great Billy Wright described our style of play as “progressing [from defense to attack] by nicely controlled patterns with every man searching hungrily for space”. This indeed seems like an early incarnation of Total Football.

There were other teams who played a Total Football style, such as Hungary in the 1950s and Austria in the 1930s. All these teams and players/managers (e.g., Michels, Cruyff, Hungary and Austria) were of course very much directly or indirectly influenced by Jimmy Hogan, a local lad and Burnley supporter, who wanted to teach those from the continent “how to play properly” from the 1910s onwards.

There is also an excellent article about the 1959-60 season on the internet: https://shorturl.at/DqpK1

Great post.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Reminded me of a story back in 2009 when we went to Spurs for the League Cup semi (sorry for bringing that up). We were early and went into the club store at White Hart Lane and this young lad came up to us and asked how long it had taken to get down. He said he was going to Burnley for the second leg because his granddad had said he should go, that Burnley/Spurs games were always special.

And I recall going to Wembley in 2017 to play them and walking up from the tube station with a Spurs fan much older than me. We talked all the way p to the stadium about Blanchflower/Adamson - Connelly/Jones - White/McIlroy etc.

Amazing two teams at the time and that Burnley team - unbelievable now to think back and realise and understand just how good we were.

"How good was McIlroy?" Gary Hickson asked Richard Dinnis on Radio Lancs on the day we announced his name was going on the stand. "Think of the best midfielder in the Premier League today," said DInnis. "McIlroy was better."

Yes my grandad would always talk about McIlroy in a similar way, no one else ever came close for him. He had plenty of other great stories about the other legends of that era though, could listen to them all day

Wonder what stories I'll be telling when I (hopefully) make it to that age, talking about the unplayable Chris Wood perhaps? all jokes aside, there are plenty of great stories to tell, even the heartbreak of Spurs in 2009 and hopefully many more to come.

[longsidetrumpet]

I’d watched the 59-60 team but didn’t really understand the game until three or four years later. Of course only poor black and white footage exists of those years. But what really strikes me when I see it is how Brian Miller seems to be the box to box player. Usually wearing 6 he’s often up supporting the forwards and even scoring goals. But then he’s heading them away at the back. So difficult to pin that team down to a 235, 424, 433 or whatever