You’ve probably seen the news story today about the Bulgarian gangs universal credit fraud to the tune of £53 million but the statistic I found even more shocking is that the official figures show that between 2020-2022 , £10.2 billion was lost to fraudulent universal credit claims. Wow. How is this possible?


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn330zkvnmyo

karatekid wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 8:34 pm

£10.2 billion was lost to fraudulent universal credit claims. Wow. How is this possible?

Asking for a friend?

It tells you in the article why such a large amount was lost due to fraud. ‘Twas the Pandemic where UC claims rose dramatically and the DWP had to suspend their normal checks on veracity. Seems that in some cases those lack of checks and verification continue to this day!!

Incredible? The civil service has questions to answer. This could really only happen here

No surprise is it?

When we were in the EU there was Eastern European crime gangs coming over stealing 15m a day.

Flying Romanians over to open new bank accounts over here for the crime groups to use.

Artificial intelligence is going to create havoc with fraud …everyone is going to need to be on high alert or could easily have your account emptied

It is people not telling them when they have over £16000 in savings. You cannot claim if you have more than that and thousands have been caught out.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 8:59 pm

Incredible? The civil service has questions to answer. This could really only happen here

The Government make the decisions on how the Civil Service departments operate.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 9:33 pm

The Government make the decisions on how the Civil Service departments operate.

And the civil servants decide they will ignore the government

Owdsyker wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 9:37 pm

And the civil servants decide they will ignore the government

Ah, I think you're referring to a minority of senior civil servants who work in Whitehall.

The absolute majority of civil servants don't have that option.

The people who need help in this country get treated with almost contempt ie carers, freezing pensioners the homeless but these gangs and fraudsters get away with it . Incompetence of the highest order.

It's obviously easy the amount of unemployed people who have huge TVs, designer clothes, financed mercedes, tattoos, turkey teeth. They are raking it in.

Don't know who's the idiots, us that work, or people milking the system.

It's only a couple of years back they were asking Marcus Rashford to feed their kids during the school holidays. That doesn't seem to happen now

So the old tv series "Yes Minister" was a pretty accurate pxxxtake of the tail wagging the dog
Re benefit fraud I personally know several people who have never worked legally in years.
The system is seriously flawed as is the system for catching offenders.A raid on takeaways and car wash sites asking to see I d might be a good starting point.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 7:24 am

So the old tv series "Yes Minister" was a pretty accurate pxxxtake of the tail wagging the dog
Re benefit fraud I personally know several people who have never worked legally in years.
The system is seriously flawed as is the system for catching offenders.A raid on takeaways and car wash sites asking to see I d might be a good starting point.

I don't think it'd make much of a difference the country is absolutely flooded with illegal workers they are arriving in numbers just as fast as they are leaving.

The Bulgarian fraud was potentially much bigger after reading some other stories

It happens because checks aren’t being done properly, they use outdated methods etc

People complain about the new bank account checks coming into place but this is why it has to happen
DWP have always had the power to check if they’re suspicious, but now banks will monitor them all the time instead

Benefit cheats have existed for as long as the system has been in place, I knew of people doing it when I was a kid

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 7:24 am

So the old tv series "Yes Minister" was a pretty accurate pxxxtake of the tail wagging the dog
Re benefit fraud I personally know several people who have never worked legally in years.
The system is seriously flawed as is the system for catching offenders.A raid on takeaways and car wash sites asking to see I d might be a good starting point.

They caught half a dozen in a Chinese restaurant in Burnley 20yrs ago

Any business that primarily takes cash needs to be checked
Nail bars
Barbers/hairdressers
Car washes
Tanning salons
Takeaways

It’s a shame, the sentences the gang received is pathetic to say the least. We really do need a complete overhaul of our justice system regarding sentencing together with more jails being built in order to accommodate the criminals.

Won’t be long now….

Because as we all know, turning a blind eye to the problem or deleting anything suggesting we have made one ALMIGHTY mistake will make it go away.

Not speaking English = benefit fraud

beddie wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 8:11 am

It’s a shame, the sentences the gang received is pathetic to say the least. We really do need a complete overhaul of our justice system regarding sentencing together with more jails being built in order to accommodate the criminals.

This was my first thought too when I heard they had got only a few years. I doubt the country will get back all that has been stolen, it will be waiting as a nice windfall for them after they get out in a few years.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 7:56 am

They caught half a dozen in a Chinese restaurant in Burnley 20yrs ago

Any business that primarily takes cash needs to be checked
Nail bars
Barbers/hairdressers
Car washes
Tanning salons
Takeaways

But then you get all the "protect small businesses, use cash not card" narrative, and it's clear as day it's a tax fiddle. The bank charges for processing cash are no cheaper than card payments now for businesses.

The amount of "sorry cash only, card machine not working" is ridiculous

Woodleyclaret, your comment "Re benefit fraud, I personally know several people who have never worked legally for years".
Why don't you ring the DWP fraud hotline Tel Number and report your information. Going off what your saying, they will have probably cost the country around 6 figures. If you're a working person, your taxes are funding them.

Friend of mine brother worked for the DHSS as was in Accrington, they were basically told from above to basically rubberstamp every claim to get through the backlog created when freedom of movement was introduced as it was politically motivated to show how "efficient " the UK was. They even knew of cases of claims in the UK and Ireland by the same bogus families.
It really is laughable at how pathetic governments are.

Anyone would think benefit fraud didn't exist in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

I guess "cash in hand" also didn't exist until those bloody foreigners turned up too eh?

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 9:03 pm

No surprise is it?

When we were in the EU there was Eastern European crime gangs coming over stealing 15m a day.

Flying Romanians over to open new bank accounts over here for the crime groups to use.

At least we left the EU.

We’ve got control of our borders back and the NHS gets an extra £350m a week.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:04 am

Anyone would think benefit fraud didn't exist in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

I guess "cash in hand" also didn't exist until those bloody foreigners turned up too eh?

It's always existed but was investigated more, I know guys in the trade who have been investigated and given huge tax bills, this though was done on an industrial scale and in lots of cases it was " believed " that the claimant had numerous children back in Romania, Bulgaria etc. You bring up the subject of foreigners but this fraud was committed by foreigners, up until freedom of movement money wasn't sent to such countries,tge fraudsters were British nationals so easier to track down.

About 15 to 20 years ago when we first got flooded from Eastern Europe, I worked with hundreds of Polish at my place of work and every one of them flew their family over, claimed family tax credits and other benefits, and then flew them back... The tax credits along with most of their wage were sent over to Poland!...

At the same time, the husband stayed in the UK... The Polish guys would then work like stink, making us look lazy, taking up all the overtime and when they were made permanent after a year and got a contract or were made supervisor, they would become even lazier than us Brits lol... They sent most of their money back to Poland, and hardly a penny went back into the British economy!...

Many of them bought houses outright back in Poland and set themselves up for life on our tax money!... They even laughed about it and mocked us at the time...

The amount of money that Labour used to throw around in benefits at the time was unreal... I remember me and my wife getting a fortune in family tax credits even though we made good money and all of our friends were the same... That changed when the Conservatives got into power, who rightly so what was going on but they went from one extreme to the other!... they are both useless.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:04 am

Anyone would think benefit fraud didn't exist in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

I guess "cash in hand" also didn't exist until those bloody foreigners turned up too eh?

Back in the day benefit fraud was to benefit an individual or family, today we are talking about benefit fraud as a business. There is no comparison, and yes, most of these organised benefit frauds are perpetrated by bloody foreigners. Chinese money launderers, East European gangsters, African scammers. I'm certain there are plenty of british fraudsters as well, but the problem for me is that we have the ability and willingness to police our own, but an unwillingness to police foreign nationals for fear of being called xenophobes or racists.

So many of the problems with todays governments are this need not to do the right thing, but to put on an appearance of doing the right thing for the audience. Consequently many tasks that should be undertaken, are ignored in favour of the populist view.

It is always going to be a problem when so many folk and families receive help from the State
Over 50% of us get some state support including 12.6 million pensioners and in 10 million household Government assistance contributes over 50% of their household budget
Whilst all that is occurring and we are told daily the Government needs to do more there are 4 million people of working age not economically active

Blame the pandemic.

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 8:25 am

But then you get all the "protect small businesses, use cash not card" narrative, and it's clear as day it's a tax fiddle. The bank charges for processing cash are no cheaper than card payments now for businesses.

The amount of "sorry cash only, card machine not working" is ridiculous

Turkish barber near me - always been cash only, certainly something fishy going on. All of them drive new mercs or beemers yet the place is empty a lot of the time

Definitely because of covid and lockdown.

Oh, and Putin too.

Absolutely 100% nothing to do with a soft and open system that leaches tax payers money from top to bottom.

It's that rascal Putin.

And covid.

Still a drop in the ocean compared to the tax avoidance that people like Rishi Sunak and his crony fam & friends get away with every single damn year.

Quite right CoolClaret.

It's small change compared to what Jeff Bezos earns in a day so why doesn't he do something about it?

If we could tax the rich even more we wouldn't have to worry about benefit fraud at all. We could just let it happen.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:44 am

Quite right CoolClaret.

It's small change compared to what Jeff Bezos earns in a day so why doesn't he do something about it?

If we could tax the rich even more we wouldn't have to worry about benefit fraud at all. We could just let it happen.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

If we taxed the rich properly and had decent governance then we'd have money to have proper teams to properly prevent illegitimate benefit claims and help those that really need it.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 9:33 pm

The Government make the decisions on how the Civil Service departments operate.

In theory maybe. But in practice it is not the case. Home Office has a lot of questions to answer for example regarding the recent murder of an old gent in Hartlepool. By an asylum seeker been here 3 years and in that time he was not contacted by the HO

helmclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:09 am

At least we left the EU.

We’ve got control of our borders back and the NHS gets an extra £350m a week.

Yeah, our government who make all the decisions have made a big mess of things since.

Rick_Muller wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:37 am

Turkish barber near me - always been cash only, certainly something fishy going on. All of them drive new mercs or beemers yet the place is empty a lot of the time

Yeah, and it's not just the "foreign" businessess, most independent businesses have those little signs saying they prefer cash.

I saw a food truck recently with a printed, laminated sign that had seen better days saying "cash only today, card machine not working sorry" clearly never been taken down

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:49 am

If we taxed the rich properly and had decent governance then we'd have money to have proper teams to properly prevent illegitimate benefit claims and help those that really need it.

Another nail hit firmly on the head CoolClaret. You're on tip top form today.

I quite agree. OK, so the rich are paying a higher amount in taxation than ever before. And they're paying a higher percentage than ever before. And the tax burden is it an all-time peacetime high. And so is the GDP/taxation ratio.

But if anyone thinks that more taxes and higher taxes isn't the solution they're clearly an extremist. I for one support your call for yet more spending on benefits and more to be spent on benefit administration and I call on Sir Kier Starmer to push up taxes yet again so that we can do this.

Because that's the problem with the UK today. People simply aren't being taxed enough.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:49 am

If we taxed the rich properly and had decent governance then we'd have money to have proper teams to properly prevent illegitimate benefit claims and help those that really need it.

Explain how you would tax the rich properly without scaring them off
We are pretty close to that now where for £1 earned many will pay 47% in tax and NI and already pay an extra £5656 per annum as a result of the emergency tax measures by Alistair DarlingThey have also lost the right to any child benefit thanks to the emergency measures of Camerron and Clegg

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:07 am

Another nail hit firmly on the head CoolClaret. You're on tip top form today.

I quite agree. OK, so the rich are paying a higher amount in taxation than ever before. And they're paying a higher percentage than ever before. And the tax burden is it an all-time peacetime high. And so is the GDP/taxation ratio.

But if anyone thinks that more taxes and higher taxes isn't the solution they're clearly an extremist. I for one support your call for yet more spending on benefits and more to be spent on benefit administration and I call on Sir Kier Starmer to push up taxes yet again so that we can do this.

Because that's the problem with the UK today. People simply aren't being taxed enough.

I don't appreciate the flippancy Rowls, no need.

The rich aren't being taxed properly at all. 'The rich' isn't people earning 100k/200k heck even 500k a year (though they are certainly wealthy) - It's the asset owning class that cream the fruits of the nation's labour and do little in return except sit on their wealth and buy more and more assets.

Money in our nation trickles upwards to the asset owning class - even more so when we print money and have rampant inflation... just like during covid.

If we do not have a way to recollect this money and redistribute it, or use it to invest/build infrastructure then we will have widening wealth inequality and stagnant nation that produces little.

What do you think we have right now?.. because to me it seems like over the last 14 years, inequality has widened and we produce less and less... Funny that.

People over the last 4 years have had more than enough opportunity to improve their own situations. There's been jobs coming out of our ears, left right and centre and still they don't want them.

Don't blame the tax payers, or recommend people pay more tax.

Sort the lame, lazy and layabouts. Can't feed their kids but can ride round on £2000 electric motorbikes.

Enforced sterilisation is the answer, not benefit system reform

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:22 am

People over the last 4 years have had more than enough opportunity to improve their own situations. There's been jobs coming out of our ears, left right and centre and still they don't want them.

Don't blame the tax payers, or recommend people pay more tax.

Sort the lame, lazy and layabouts. Can't feed their kids but can ride round on £2000 electric motorbikes.

Enforced sterilisation is the answer, not benefit system reform

It's recommending people that quite literally own significant amounts of the UKs housing/services (as neoliberalism ****** them away) pays their fair share.

That's it - why do you enjoy punching down on easy, vulnerable targets? They aren't the cause of any of your problems, that I can tell you.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:07 am

Another nail hit firmly on the head CoolClaret. You're on tip top form today.

I quite agree. OK, so the rich are paying a higher amount in taxation than ever before. And they're paying a higher percentage than ever before. And the tax burden is it an all-time peacetime high. And so is the GDP/taxation ratio.

But if anyone thinks that more taxes and higher taxes isn't the solution they're clearly an extremist. I for one support your call for yet more spending on benefits and more to be spent on benefit administration and I call on Sir Kier Starmer to push up taxes yet again so that we can do this.

Because that's the problem with the UK today. People simply aren't being taxed enough.

Wrong horse Rowls. Times have changed. We're moving on from the sh1tshow youve been cheerleading for 14 years.

Thank god.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:26 am

It's recommending people that quite literally own significant amounts of the UKs housing/services (as neoliberalism ****** them away) pays their fair share.

That's it - why do you enjoy punching down on easy, vulnerable targets? They aren't the cause of any of your problems, that I can tell you.

Problems in my life? They are the direct problem. Rich people getting richer has no impact on me.

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:28 am

Problems in my life? They are the direct problem. Rich people getting richer has no impact on me.

That's where you're VERY wrong mate. It has huge implications on you, your family/friends and future generations.

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:28 am

Problems in my life? They are the direct problem. Rich people getting richer has no impact on me.

Haha. What an adorable little cutie. Docile and ripe for the picking. You’ll be rewarded with a few extra scraps for your master’s table for that sort of loyalty.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 9:04 am

Anyone would think benefit fraud didn't exist in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

I guess "cash in hand" also didn't exist until those bloody foreigners turned up too eh?

All of those things…. Bang on.

But to suggest this hasn’t increased exponentially since freedom of movement is like saying mass uncontrolled immigration hasn’t had a detrimental effect on the NHS.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:35 am

Haha. What an adorable little cutie. Docile and ripe for the picking. You’ll be rewarded with a few extra scraps for your master’s table for that sort of loyalty.

Find your own way in life, not wait for handouts.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 31, 2024 10:34 am

That's where you're VERY wrong mate. It has huge implications on you, your family/friends and future generations.

Would you like to elaborate?