Personally I never get the idea of space exploration. The vast costs are obscene in a world beset with famine and global warming. IMO there are enough problems on Earth that are far more important to solve than the vanity project of trips to the Moon.

Satellites are one of the most important resources we have in preventing famines, and we wouldn't know half as much about global warming without them, either.

If you are interested in a permanent solution to either of those problems, it would be tremendously helpful to have a supply of cheap clean energy from the abundant supply of Helium-3 on the moon.

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:49 am

Satellites are one of the most important resources we have in preventing famines, and we wouldn't know half as much about global warming without them, either.

If you are interested in a permanent solution to either of those problems, it would be tremendously helpful to have a supply of cheap clean energy from the abundant supply of Helium-3 on the moon.

Had to look it up, but it's a fascinating material.....undoubtably the reason everyone is now interested in the moon......$1400 per gram.

They are building a space port near me, no, i'm not joking

https://lasvegasspaceport.org/

Space travel is very important in understanding our planet and for the future. To say famine is more important is very short sighted

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:30 am

Personally I never get the idea of space exploration. The vast costs are obscene in a world beset with famine and global warming. IMO there are enough problems on Earth that are far more important to solve than the vanity project of trips to the Moon.

The space programme has been the catalyst for so many discoveries / inventions.

Earth can't sustain human life indefinitely. Should we not try and colonise space for survival of our species?

The Earth is the best location for humans as far as we know and it seems to me unlikely we can find another suitable location within reach.

Therefore it seems better to concentrate on keeping Earth habitable. Clearly space travel has it's practical uses as we've heard but we should be putting more energy into keeping this planet in good condition.

what_no_pies wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:08 am

Earth can't sustain human life indefinitely. Should we not try and colonise space for survival of our species?

The rise of the far right in Europe combined with Putin's need for a big obituary may well take care of any excess population difficulties.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:30 am

Personally I never get the idea of space exploration. The vast costs are obscene in a world beset with famine and global warming. IMO there are enough problems on Earth that are far more important to solve than the vanity project of trips to the Moon.

I'm sure they probably said the same about introducing railways and air travel back in the day.

All went wrong when the wheel was invented.

Nobody can truly believe humans will have life on another planet.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:39 am

All went wrong when the wheel was invented.

All went wrong about about 12,000 years ago when hunter-gatherers began transitioning towards farming.

At the moment colonising another world is far, far beyond our capabilities but if we are ever going to do it now is the time to take baby steps. At the moment it looks impossible but constant innovation may come up with something, which would have to include some kind of hibernation due to the distances involved (although time dilation may help with that). Current technology means it would take tens of thousands of years to reach Alpha Proxima, the nearest star to us, which is not believed to have a ‘habitable’ planet orbiting, but given research and technology who knows what might happen in a couple of hundred years or more.
It’s not a waste of time and money, in fact it is essential for the long term survival of humanity, so I personally think it should be carried forward as much as possible.

No one would have believed
In the last years of the nineteenth century
That human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space
No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinized
As someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water
Few men even considered the possibility of life on other planets
And yet, across the gulf of space
Minds immeasurably superior to ours
Regarded this Earth with envious eyes
And slowly and surely, they drew their plans against us

Bluetooth, LEDs (especially for lighting), velcro, teflon, freeze drying, CAT Scans, Baby formula, prosthetics, home insulation, scratch resistant glasses lenses, CO2 capture and much more were invented due to the technological advancements and extra funding provided by space exploration.

Dyched wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:44 am

Nobody can truly believe humans will have life on another planet.

Why can't I believe that? Am I an idiot for believing that? Stunning arrogance to state that.

Dyched wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:44 am

Nobody can truly believe humans will have life on another planet.

Given the distance humankind has travelled in the last 500 years, not just geographically but scientifically, then it would be foolish to put such definitive statements on what cannot be achieved in another 500.

Perhaps another planet is beyond our capacity, but life/society etc will most likely be very different to that of today and to take the why bother approach invites disaster.

To borrow from JFK: we do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

Foshiznik wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:07 pm

Bluetooth, LEDs (especially for lighting), velcro, teflon, freeze drying, CAT Scans, Baby formula, prosthetics, home insulation, scratch resistant glasses lenses, CO2 capture and much more were invented due to the technological advancements and extra funding provided by space exploration.

"Memory foam" is another NASA development

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:19 am

No one would have believed
In the last years of the nineteenth century
That human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space
No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinized
As someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water
Few men even considered the possibility of life on other planets
And yet, across the gulf of space
Minds immeasurably superior to ours
Regarded this Earth with envious eyes
And slowly and surely, they drew their plans against us

Da da daa

The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one he said.
The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, but still they come.

Two things common to virtually all space science fiction. Faster than light travel, and terraforming (making planets habitable for earth-dwellers). We have a long way to go in both, and Einstein will have to be proved wrong for number 1 to happen.

One thing about the distances in space - if the first spaceship gets to Alpha Proxima and sends a message back saying "nothing here", it will be 5 years before the message reaches earth and 5 more years before the reply reaches the spaceship. And if the reply is "sorry, garbled message, please repeat ..."

AGI is likely within the next couple of decades and I think it will radically change this conversation in a couple of ways: (1) technological breakthroughs in material science and physics; (2) just send the AGI on the space exploration missions. It's more capable than humans and far easier to transport.

The investment in the space race brought about some great technological advancements, knowledge and also products/materials that are now used worldwide.

Whilst I agree that there is a lot of issues that really do need to be solved on earth, we should also keep pushing the boundaries beyond our own atmosphere.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:30 am

Personally I never get the idea of space exploration. The vast costs are obscene in a world beset with famine and global warming. IMO there are enough problems on Earth that are far more important to solve than the vanity project of trips to the Moon.

Anecdotally, the $ spent on space exploration were returned many times over in terms of supporting industry and innovation. So many things we take for granted have their origins in space exploration.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:12 pm

The investment in the space race brought about some great technological advancements, knowledge and also products/materials that are now used worldwide.

Whilst I agree that there is a lot of issues that really do need to be solved on earth, we should also keep pushing the boundaries beyond our own atmosphere.

Yeah, wot he said

ŽižkovClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:13 pm

Anecdotally, the $ spent on space exploration were returned many times over in terms of supporting industry and innovation. So many things we take for granted have their origins in space exploration.

You could actually say the same thing about war. The two world wars, in particular, saw massive technological progress that benefitted mankind. Unfortunately it came at a huge human cost. That's one of the reasons I love space exploration, you get all the technology benefits without the enormous human cost.

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:20 pm

You could actually say the same thing about war. The two world wars, in particular, saw massive technological progress that benefitted mankind. Unfortunately it came at a huge human cost. That's one of the reasons I love space exploration, you get all the technology benefits without the enormous human cost.

Well, mostly, but aye, its a good comparison.

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:49 am

Satellites are one of the most important resources we have in preventing famines, and we wouldn't know half as much about global warming without them, either.

If you are interested in a permanent solution to either of those problems, it would be tremendously helpful to have a supply of cheap clean energy from the abundant supply of Helium-3 on the moon.

Would it mean we would all have sneaky voices?

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:19 am

No one would have believed
In the last years of the nineteenth century
That human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space
No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinized
As someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water
Few men even considered the possibility of life on other planets
And yet, across the gulf of space
Minds immeasurably superior to ours
Regarded this Earth with envious eyes
And slowly and surely, they drew their plans against us

War of the Worlds?

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:29 pm

Would it mean we would all have sneaky voices?

SQUEAKY!!!!

Bloody predictive text!!!

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:31 pm

War of the Worlds?

Could be .













Yes it is

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:29 pm

Would it mean we would all have sneaky voices?

Say no more! *taps nose*

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:33 pm

SQUEAKY!!!!

Bloody predictive text!!!

there are definitely some "Sneaky voices" on here IanMcl

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:49 am

Satellites are one of the most important resources we have in preventing famines, and we wouldn't know half as much about global warming without them, either.

If you are interested in a permanent solution to either of those problems, it would be tremendously helpful to have a supply of cheap clean energy from the abundant supply of Helium-3 on the moon.

I thought the moon was made of cheese

Carlos the Great wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:41 pm

I thought the moon was made of cheese

Of course that great Documentary done by "Wallace and Grommit" a grand day out proved it

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:36 pm

"Memory foam" is another NASA development

I can't remember where mine is.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:04 pm

Screenshot_20240610_170116_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20240610_170127_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20240610_170135_Chrome.jpg

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:58 pm

I can't remember where mine is.

Always best to check mouth first!

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:39 am

All went wrong when the wheel was invented.

Agriculture has entered the chat...

Why would we want to go travelling into space when we have a lovely flat earth to live on ?

jollyjack wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:15 pm

Why can't I believe that? Am I an idiot for believing that? Stunning arrogance to state that.

Whilst it “might” be possible it just wouldn’t work. Tensions here on earth seem to be getting stronger each year. How possibly would it work on another planet??

The Americans will turn up first, they’ll be stood with open arms welcoming the Chinese and then the Russians. I’d take my chances living on the sun.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:33 am

The rise of the far right in Europe combined with Putin's need for a big obituary may well take care of any excess population difficulties.

Challenges around population / pollution shouldn't be disregarded, but humans (like all other life forms we know of) have a finite amount of time on this planet irrespective of any or all such considerations. Earth won't exist indefinitely...

Well, I dreamed I saw the knights in armor coming
Sayin' something about a queen
There were peasants singin' and drummers drumming
And the archer split the tree
There was a fanfare blowin' to the sun
That was floating on the breeze
Look at mother nature on the run in the twenty twenties
Look at mother nature on the run in the twenty twenties

I was lyin' in a burned-out basement
With a full moon in my eyes
I was hopin' for replacement
When the sun burst through the sky
There was a band playin' in my head
And I felt like getting high
I was thinkin' about what a friend had said
I was hopin' it was a lie
Thinkin' about what a friend had said
I was hopin' it was a lie

Well, I dreamed I saw the silver spaceships lying
In the yellow haze of the sun
There were children crying and colors flying
All around the chosen ones
All in a dream, all in a dream
The loading had begun
Flyin' mother nature's silver seed
To a new home in the sun
Flyin' mother nature's silver seed
To a new home in the sun.....

Life on land with plants, then animals etc. has existed since about 500 million years (before that nearly all life was in water). In that time there have been at least five mass extinctions.

Homo sapiens have been on this planet around 300,000 years. There were three pretty long ice ages in that period, the last one started warming about 20,000 years ago.

Civilisation has been around 10,000 years.

Activities in space, starting with Sputnik, sixty-seven years.

No planets or moons in our Solar System are naturally habitable - water, oxygen in the atmosphere, food. We would therefore have to look beyond the Solar System. We don't yet know of any other habitable planets. We do know of some that may be in a 'habitable zone', meaning at a certain distance from a suitable sun but we don't know if they are habitable. The nearest one is 22 light years away.

All we can do with what we know now is the equivalent of building an enclosed living space, such as one under the sea.

Our position on this planet is precarious over the medium term - thirty thousand years say - based on Earth's history. Add to that our own stupidity where we know we are over crowding and destroying our home and do little about it. Whilst Homo sapiens may survive, civilisation as we know it may not.

This crisis is now.

Therefore the best solution to this is not space travel but to repair the damage to our home. We can look at space travel to deal with medium term issues later.

It is, as politicians have said but have not really acted on it, a Climate Emergency.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:50 pm

We do know of some that may be in a 'habitable zone', meaning at a certain distance from a suitable sun but we don't know if they are habitable. The nearest one is 22 light years away.

The fastest known rocket travels at 1/1700 the speed of light so it will take 22 x 1700 = 37,400 years to get to that planet.

Dyched wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:44 am

Nobody can truly believe humans will have life on another planet.

Maybe not, but when humans don't have ambitions and think beyond our current understand of things we'll be far worse off for it.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:43 pm

Well, I dreamed I saw the knights in armor coming
Sayin' something about a queen
There were peasants singin' and drummers drumming
And the archer split the tree
There was a fanfare blowin' to the sun
That was floating on the breeze
Look at mother nature on the run in the twenty twenties
Look at mother nature on the run in the twenty twenties

I was lyin' in a burned-out basement
With a full moon in my eyes
I was hopin' for replacement
When the sun burst through the sky
There was a band playin' in my head
And I felt like getting high
I was thinkin' about what a friend had said
I was hopin' it was a lie
Thinkin' about what a friend had said
I was hopin' it was a lie

Well, I dreamed I saw the silver spaceships lying
In the yellow haze of the sun
There were children crying and colors flying
All around the chosen ones
All in a dream, all in a dream
The loading had begun
Flyin' mother nature's silver seed
To a new home in the sun
Flyin' mother nature's silver seed
To a new home in the sun.....

Neil Young: After the Goldrush. Wonderful album.