First of all I’d just like to point out I’m happily married……she might not be but I am and that’s all that matters

Was talking to a lad at work who is currently going through the early stages of a divorce. He’s got 3 kids with his wife. I honestly don’t know how anyone bloke can afford it. He was telling me he has to keep paying the mortgage on a house he won’t be living in, plus child support for 3 kids. It was about 50% of his wage. He then had to rent his own place, plus general life expenses (food, utilities). Literally nothing at the end of the month to save for a house deposit or rainy day fund.

My question is how do people afford it. People must stay unhappy because they can’t afford the cost of divorce

I divorced 17 years ago and thankfully my kids are grown up and life is a lot easier now.

It’s been horrendous. Forget rainy day fund and saving for anything, eating suitably and affording to get to work to pay for ‘it all’ were the worst, as well as not being able to get the right presents or holidays etc.. was tough too.

It made me think too that a lot of chaps must avoid it but which scenario is the better of the two when it’s usually better for the kids that their parents don’t live together.

Tough one

“ My mother always said don’t marry for money, divorce for money.”

Inchy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:08 pm

People must stay unhappy because they can’t afford the cost of divorce

That's the modern way of looking at it.

But you've just listed the many financial reasons not to get divorced. The figures for divorce don't suggest that too many people are not getting divorced. Quite the opposite.

If a couple can stay together through whatever difficulties, they've got every chance of rekindling their love later on in the relationship. Married couples report being significantly happier, they're wealthier and they even live longer.

Sadly, for a woman who has fallen out of love with her partner, there are virtually no immediate negative effects to instigating a divorce and plenty of superficial immediate benefits - the woman (almost invariably) gets the house, she receives the maintenance payments, becomes entitled to claim benefits. There is pretty much zero stigma attached to divorce these days.

By far the saddest thing is that those who will suffer the most are the children. The psychological impact it has on children is well documented. It's harrowing. It is extremely damaging to a child's life chances and it's not an exaggeration to say that of what we might call 'common life events' divorce is the worst thing that can happen to a child. Children from divorced households are less likely to achieve good grades, more likely to take drugs, misuse alcohol, play truant, have poor mental health... the list goes on and on.

The high rates of divorce are a tragedy for this country. I don't use that word lightly. Yet it's something that nobody wants to discuss and nobody wants to address.

Not every relationship is going to last forever, and some divorces are going to be inevitable (and even for the best) but we'd all be better off if, as individuals and as couples and families, those vows were taken far more seriously.

For richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part.

We'd be so much better off if more people kept their vows.

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:18 pm

it’s usually better for the kids that their parents don’t live together.

Tough one

Hi Holty

Sorry to hear about your own divorce. The burden you describe sounds awful. I've got a few friends going through similar situations and they're both counting down the days until their children are adults.

Obviously, you're the best judge of your own life. Anecdotally for yourself it might have been better to separate. Each divorce / separation has its own story and its own merits.

However, the stats on a national basis don't support the idea of separation and divorce being the best option. The stats point unequivocally towards it being the worst outcome.

‘Yet it's something that nobody wants to discuss and nobody wants to address.’

This applies to something else that has been a tragedy for the country and it’s working people.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:35 pm

We'd be so much better off if more people kept their vows.

utterly and completely sanctimonious.

just for a change.

Team never getting married.

The worst possible deal a bloke could make these days - not to mention, it was meant to be a religious thing, I don't think that the government should be involved in 'marriage'.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:40 pm

Hi Holty

Sorry to hear about your own divorce. The burden you describe sounds awful. I've got a few friends going through similar situations and they're both counting down the days until their children are adults.

Obviously, you're the best judge of your own life. Anecdotally for yourself it might have been better to separate. Each divorce / separation has its own story and its own merits.

However, the stats on a national basis don't support the idea of separation and divorce being the best option. The stats point unequivocally towards it being the worst outcome.

My parents divorced. Neither myself or brother have turned out bad, but I get the statistic and it’s unavoidable.

However, say there are 2 adults and 1 kid, staying in an unhappy marriage. Fighting, arguing, etc etc. who is happy there? No one?

At least divorce might provide happiness for at least one of the 3.

This post isn’t about life chances for the kids etc. it’s about the financial implications of divorce. I’m genuinely interested in how people afford it

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:40 pm

Hi Holty

Sorry to hear about your own divorce. The burden you describe sounds awful. I've got a few friends going through similar situations and they're both counting down the days until their children are adults.

Obviously, you're the best judge of your own life. Anecdotally for yourself it might have been better to separate. Each divorce / separation has its own story and its own merits.

However, the stats on a national basis don't support the idea of separation and divorce being the best option. The stats point unequivocally towards it being the worst outcome.

Things were beyond separation unfortunately but I get your point.

Fortunately, she’s proved an excellent mother since and our two lads are spot on

yTib wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:43 pm

utterly and completely sanctimonious.

just for a change.

I don't think it's sanctimonious.
Perhaps put differently it's fine: If you can't keep promises (vows) don't make them.

https://youtu.be/SzZzGxReXmo?feature=shared

Sorry but whenever I hear the word Divorce it just makes me think of this ... Saw him in Bradford back in the day and it still makes me laugh ....

Inchy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:08 pm

First of all I’d just like to point out I’m happily married……she might not be but I am and that’s all that matters

Was talking to a lad at work who is currently going through the early stages of a divorce. He’s got 3 kids with his wife. I honestly don’t know how anyone bloke can afford it. He was telling me he has to keep paying the mortgage on a house he won’t be living in, plus child support for 3 kids. It was about 50% of his wage. He then had to rent his own place, plus general life expenses (food, utilities). Literally nothing at the end of the month to save for a house deposit or rainy day fund.

My question is how do people afford it. People must stay unhappy because they can’t afford the cost of divorce

System massively biased, and in HUGE need of overhaul. This lad has zero chance of building a proper life for himself. How many like him have just tapped out at work and become a drain on the welfare state because of how it is mis-managed?

'Yet it's something that nobody wants to discuss and nobody wants to address.’

Helmclaret:
This applies to something else that has been a tragedy for the country and it’s working people.
[/quote]

Have a day off will you ffs.

Where's PPP when you need him?

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:17 pm

Things were beyond separation unfortunately but I get your point.

Fortunately, she’s proved an excellent mother since and our two lads are spot on

Glad to hear it Holty.

All the best

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:22 pm

I don't think it's sanctimonious.
Perhaps put differently it's fine: If you can't keep promises (vows) don't make them.

it is the very definition of sanctimonious.

when my dad and mum wed they were 18 and 17 respecively.

no rational person could expect them to have identical values to when they were teenagers.

(it was the late 70s btw).

as usual rowls depends on dogma rather than logic.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:27 pm

https://youtu.be/SzZzGxReXmo?feature=shared

Sorry but whenever I hear the word Divorce it just makes me think of this ... Saw him in Bradford back in the day and it still makes me laugh ....

Pretty insensitive comment for anyone who has or is going through this and the undoubted ramifications to any children as per the guy the OP is referring to.....

Inchy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:08 pm

First of all I’d just like to point out I’m happily married……she might not be but I am and that’s all that matters

Was talking to a lad at work who is currently going through the early stages of a divorce. He’s got 3 kids with his wife. I honestly don’t know how anyone bloke can afford it. He was telling me he has to keep paying the mortgage on a house he won’t be living in, plus child support for 3 kids. It was about 50% of his wage. He then had to rent his own place, plus general life expenses (food, utilities). Literally nothing at the end of the month to save for a house deposit or rainy day fund.

My question is how do people afford it. People must stay unhappy because they can’t afford the cost of divorce

If you can't hack it don't back it. Wise people know what they are letting themselves in for.

Fortunately met my soulmate when I was 22 , she’s my world , I feel so blessed, her not so much having to put up with me

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:35 pm

That's the modern way of looking at it.

But you've just listed the many financial reasons not to get divorced. The figures for divorce don't suggest that too many people are not getting divorced. Quite the opposite.

If a couple can stay together through whatever difficulties, they've got every chance of rekindling their love later on in the relationship. Married couples report being significantly happier, they're wealthier and they even live longer.

Sadly, for a woman who has fallen out of love with her partner, there are virtually no immediate negative effects to instigating a divorce and plenty of superficial immediate benefits - the woman (almost invariably) gets the house, she receives the maintenance payments, becomes entitled to claim benefits. There is pretty much zero stigma attached to divorce these days.

By far the saddest thing is that those who will suffer the most are the children. The psychological impact it has on children is well documented. It's harrowing. It is extremely damaging to a child's life chances and it's not an exaggeration to say that of what we might call 'common life events' divorce is the worst thing that can happen to a child. Children from divorced households are less likely to achieve good grades, more likely to take drugs, misuse alcohol, play truant, have poor mental health... the list goes on and on.

The high rates of divorce are a tragedy for this country. I don't use that word lightly. Yet it's something that nobody wants to discuss and nobody wants to address.

Not every relationship is going to last forever, and some divorces are going to be inevitable (and even for the best) but we'd all be better off if, as individuals and as couples and families, those vows were taken far more seriously.

For richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part.

We'd be so much better off if more people kept their vows.

AI do me an essay on the ups and downs of divorce

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:57 pm

If you can't hack it don't back it. Wise people know what they are letting themselves in for.

I wasn’t expecting this much sh*te when posing this

Inchy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:19 pm

I wasn’t expecting this much sh*te when posing this

Unless shotguns are forced to heads before rings are purchased it’s a voluntary course of action that can bring enjoyment or in this case a bucket full load of brown dollop either way it’s avoidable.

Inchy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:19 pm

I wasn’t expecting this much sh*te when posing this

Ignore the batshit crazy views from the same old posters but yep you make a good point that divorce for many can ruin them financially.

The system is clearly very heavily weighted towards one party and whilst there is some logic and reasoning in this in relation to looking after kids and splitting assets that you shared when you were married equally when you divorce it does often mean that the husband is left in a much more difficult position where they have to continue to work as they did when they were together but lose a big chunk of their income for a wife, kids, house etc they are no longer with.

But when people get married I’m sure they don’t think they are going to get divorced or realise the potential consequences if they do.

None of this means that you should not get married.

Neither does it mean you should not get divorced. Money is not everything.

There's no getting away from the fact that's it's choices we are in control of or at least should be. You can gripe later down the line but it's preventable unless it's arranged marriages which comes from a different culture. I've no sympathy for gullible people.

Big Vinny K wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:14 pm

Neither does it mean you should not get divorced. Money is not everything.

No, children are much more important. And they are the ones liable to suffer most. Something for any couple to think about before entering into marriage.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:36 pm

No, children are much more important. And they are the ones liable to suffer most. Something for any couple to think about before entering into marriage.

A toxic marriage is absolutely no good for children at all.Does more harm than good staying together for the sake of the kids

Robbie_painter wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:40 pm

A toxic marriage is absolutely no good for children at all.Does more harm than good staying together for the sake of the kids

I'm not doubting that.
But why is a marriage,as you say, toxic?

Robbie_painter wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:40 pm

A toxic marriage is absolutely no good for children at all.Does more harm than good staying together for the sake of the kids

I don’t know of any statistics that back this claim up but that would depend on how a ‘toxic marriage’ was defined.

What is known and proven is the damage divorce has on children. It doesn’t disprove what you’re claiming about ‘toxic’ marriages but it runs counter to the general evidence.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:27 pm

There's no getting away from the fact that's it's choices we are in control of or at least should be. You can gripe later down the line but it's preventable unless it's arranged marriages which comes from a different culture. I've no sympathy for gullible people.

I get what your saying but say you’re married to a lass who is having an affair and decides to leave you. That’s not your fault. Happens all the time where men are left by their wives and they still put into financial ruin through no fault of their own

In fact it’s possibly a greater kick in the teeth then because if she leaves for another bloke she’s unlikely to face any financial hardship compared to the bloke

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:50 pm

I'm not doubting that.
But why is a marriage,as you say, toxic?

Well if we try the usual list and in no particular order:-
Drink, drugs, violence, possessiveness, jealousy, gambling, financial incompetence, selfishness, control/domineering behaviour, adultery and because one party (usually the male) is an absolute twatt.

The not so obvious tells that the marriage is going to be a disaster are:-
a) one party trying to stop the other having contact with his/her friends and family. Having one or two particular dislikes is maybe OK, but when it is most/all of them.... .
b) one party (again, usually the male) showers the other party with gifts, trips away, compliments, and asks her to marry him far too quickly to be sensible. Effectively, the person pursued is being treated as a target. The number of people in this category that have a petition that then starts along the lines of "almost immediately after the marriage the respondents attitude to the petitioner dramatically changed" is huge. Don't fall for it and become a target wife.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:53 am

I don’t know of any statistics that back this claim up but that would depend on how a ‘toxic marriage’ was defined.

What is known and proven is the damage divorce has on children. It doesn’t disprove what you’re claiming about ‘toxic’ marriages but it runs counter to the general evidence.

Is the damage from the loss of a parent, or the unpleasantness of the divorce and/or it's outcomes?

Children can lose a parent from death as well.

There can be good divorces surely. Where both parents accept the need for divorce and are practical and sensible about it.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:35 pm

We'd be so much better off if more people kept their vows.

So said Thomas Wolsey (1530).

Volvoclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:46 pm

Where's PPP when you need him?

Spain?

Or maybe Costa del Bacup

Divorce is OK if all parties are sensible about it,the kids inherit the family home in the end anyway,I resented my wife taking everything when we divorced...but eventually we became friends again, and I like her more now than when I was Married to her and my son will get everything we worked for over the 28 years we were married ....so I'd say its win win.

timshorts wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:15 am

Well if we try the usual list and in no particular order:-
Drink, drugs, violence, possessiveness, jealousy, gambling, financial incompetence, selfishness, control/domineering behaviour, adultery and because one party (usually the male) is an absolute twatt.

The not so obvious tells that the marriage is going to be a disaster are:-
a) one party trying to stop the other having contact with his/her friends and family. Having one or two particular dislikes is maybe OK, but when it is most/all of them.... .
b) one party (again, usually the male) showers the other party with gifts, trips away, compliments, and asks her to marry him far too quickly to be sensible. Effectively, the person pursued is being treated as a target. The number of people in this category that have a petition that then starts along the lines of "almost immediately after the marriage the respondents attitude to the petitioner dramatically changed" is huge. Don't fall for it and become a target wife.

So many human behavioural traits then?

Hipper wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:31 am

Is the damage from the loss of a parent, or the unpleasantness of the divorce and/or it's outcomes?

I do not know but maybe it's both these things plus other factors. That would seem most likely to me we're getting into supposition here.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:31 am

Children can lose a parent from death as well.

Yes but that's something entirely different.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:31 am

There can be good divorces surely. Where both parents accept the need for divorce and are practical and sensible about it.

The stats that I know of point towards even amicable divorces leading to very negative outcomes for the children.

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:06 am

Divorce is OK if all parties are sensible about it,the kids inherit the family home in the end anyway,I resented my wife taking everything when we divorced...but eventually we became friends again, and I like her more now than when I was Married to her and my son will get everything we worked for over the 28 years we were married ....so I'd say its win win.

Hi Steve

Glad things worked out well for you and your family. Clearly it's possible for things to be resolved amicably and anecdotal stories like yours have become the consensus opinion - that an amicable divorce is better than persevering with an imperfect marriage.

However, in terms of measuring outcomes for children (mental health, crime, grades, behaviour, happiness etc) the stats all show the opposite: divorce produces the worst outcomes for children.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 10:08 am

Hi Steve

Glad things worked out well for you and your family. Clearly it's possible for things to be resolved amicably and anecdotal stories like yours have become the consensus opinion - that an amicable divorce is better than persevering with an imperfect marriage.

However, in terms of measuring outcomes for children (mental health, crime, grades, behaviour, happiness etc) the stats all show the opposite: divorce produces the worst outcomes for children.

I'm just speaking from my own experience Rowls,I have spoken at length with my son on his experience of his Mum & Dad divorcing he was 15 at the time he's now 34 he was upset at the time of course...but the one thing he agrees now he is so happy to see us friends and happy in our new life..we have all been out on a few occasions and enjoyed a few beers together

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 10:08 am

Hi Steve

Glad things worked out well for you and your family. Clearly it's possible for things to be resolved amicably and anecdotal stories like yours have become the consensus opinion - that an amicable divorce is better than persevering with an imperfect marriage.

However, in terms of measuring outcomes for children (mental health, crime, grades, behaviour, happiness etc) the stats all show the opposite: divorce produces the worst outcomes for children.

Can you link some of these stats, would be interested to see how they are able to put it all on divorce and whether they consider the environment the kids are growing up in prior to divorce as a factor in the outcomes. How can they say the majority of the "damage" isn't actually done prior to divorce? After all, the environment for a kid with parents heading for a divorce is hardly going to be the same as one where the parents are happily married, generally speaking.

Divorce was tough financially for me as a dad.

She wanted to stay in the house, but luckily agreed to pay the small mortgage. Meant all my equity frozen for years, and that hassle. Luckily she decided not to pay the mortgage, so it got sold just before repossession, and I got my half.

Maintenance is high, but doing it privately I pay her half what gov calculates. She wouldn't spend more on kids and gives me more to do stuff with them, but I'd struggle more if had to pay more.

Plus she's a bad influence, minimal work, benefits, now in a council house. But courts favour her as a woman so no chance of any changes

Inchy wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:06 am

I get what your saying but say you’re married to a lass who is having an affair and decides to leave you. That’s not your fault. Happens all the time where men are left by their wives and they still put into financial ruin through no fault of their own

Yes it does happen & it's not the other person's fault but if you don't get married in the first place what's yours remains yours & it all goes through tolata in the event of a split in terms of establishing beneficial interest.

I wonder if Jakub has the same attitude to relationships as he does to driving: someone would need to be sedated before getting into a relationship with him.

About 40% of marriages in the UK end in divorce. People still do it!

Mattster wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 10:33 am

Can you link some of these stats, would be interested to see how they are able to put it all on divorce and whether they consider the environment the kids are growing up in prior to divorce as a factor in the outcomes. How can they say the majority of the "damage" isn't actually done prior to divorce? After all, the environment for a kid with parents heading for a divorce is hardly going to be the same as one where the parents are happily married, generally speaking.

Sorry, I don't have the time for this. The questions you ask are the legitimate kind of questions we should all be asking. If you want to find the stats for yourself it shouldn't take long in this information age.

No doubt the stats come from the Daily Mail or Telegraph?

I only see one solution for this. Any couple that wishes to get married in the UK, has to go through a rigorous vetting and interview process by an organisation headed up by Rowls.

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:06 am

Divorce is OK if all parties are sensible about it,the kids inherit the family home in the end anyway,I resented my wife taking everything when we divorced...but eventually we became friends again, and I like her more now than when I was Married to her and my son will get everything we worked for over the 28 years we were married ....so I'd say its win win.

This explains a lot about you.

Marriage should last for 7 years and be renewable if both sides agree or not as the case. Assets should be split 50/50 if partners agree to go there own ways. Well that’s what my wife of 25 suggests !!!

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2024 3:30 pm

Marriage should last for 7 years and be renewable if both sides agree or not as the case. Assets should be split 50/50 if partners agree to go there own ways. Well that’s what my wife of 25 suggests !!!

Three more years till your next review then! ;p