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Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:02 pm
by Leyland Claret
Would like to gauge peoples opinion on something that has happened to my son. He signed up with a national gym on Monday 1st July for a 12 month contract. There was a £25 ‘joining fee’ and a monthly charge of £25 a month. He paid the £50 there and then and received email confirmation of this contract. On Thursday 4th July they contacted my son by telephone and told him they had made a mistake and the actual cost was £58 a month. He spoke with Citizens Advice who drafted him a letter regarding this matter to which he emailed it to head office. They contacted him by telephone again today to state that they would be not honouring the mistaken £25 a month contract and as per their T&C’s they can do this at any time in the contract. He had 2 choices. Either pay the £58 a month or have his contract cancelled as they have broken the contract. That is fine but what has really peed me off is they have said the original £25 ‘joining fee’ is non refundable. Now he is still within his 14 day cooling off period but they are refusing to pay that back. In my eyes that is theft because he didn’t agree to the £58 a month and he wouldn’t have joined if they told him that was the cost. What do people think? Is he just going to have to accept this? He is currently on the phone to his bank to see if he can do a chargeback.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:09 pm
by taio
I'd send them a letter or formal email giving them say 14 days notice to reimburse and tell them that in the event they don't you will pursue the matter through small claims court. I would also be saying that if the don't refund in that time period you will be publicising the injustice via multiple social media platforms to warn as many people as possible.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:35 pm
by Volvoclaret
Get Solicitor extraordinaire PPP on the case immediately. They will be quaking in their gym shoes.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:39 pm
by Bosscat
Volvoclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:35 pm
Get Solicitor extraordinaire PPP on the case immediately. They will be quaking in their gym shoes.
Beat me to that VC ...
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:49 pm
by timshorts
It does not sound as though it was theft. But it would be fraud if the original intent was to offer and then intentionally pocket the signing fee after doubling the price.
It rather looks like an unfair contract term either way. What is the excuse for ignoring the cooling off period? I'm assuming that the one off membership would not have been paid had it been apparent that the monthly fee was the higher one?
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:53 pm
by Rowls
Leyland Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:02 pm
Would like to gauge peoples opinion on something that has happened to my son. He signed up with a national gym on Monday 1st July for a 12 month contract. There was a £25 ‘joining fee’ and a monthly charge of £25 a month. He paid the £50 there and then and received email confirmation of this contract. On Thursday 4th July they contacted my son by telephone and told him they had made a mistake and the actual cost was £58 a month. He spoke with Citizens Advice who drafted him a letter regarding this matter to which he emailed it to head office. They contacted him by telephone again today to state that they would be not honouring the mistaken £25 a month contract and as per their T&C’s they can do this at any time in the contract. He had 2 choices. Either pay the £58 a month or have his contract cancelled as they have broken the contract. That is fine but what has really peed me off is they have said the original £25 ‘joining fee’ is non refundable. Now he is still within his 14 day cooling off period but they are refusing to pay that back. In my eyes that is theft because he didn’t agree to the £58 a month and he wouldn’t have joined if they told him that was the cost. What do people think? Is he just going to have to accept this? He is currently on the phone to his bank to see if he can do a chargeback.
Without knowing anything on the legality of the situation, my gut feeling is that this should be against the law and that he should be entitled to a refund.
I think the main problem you'll have is getting this enforced for such a relatively small amount more than anything else. You're rightly annoyed and fuming about it because they're clearly a shoddy outfit.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:57 pm
by claretskeith
If you don't get anywhere with it, as mentioned further up make sure you share the experience on social media and maybe even the local newspaper would be willing to publish something. They'll end up losing a lot more than the amount they 'stole' from you from people deciding to go to a different gym instead.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:23 pm
by Leyland Claret
timshorts wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:49 pm
It does not sound as though it was theft. But it would be fraud if the original intent was to offer and then intentionally pocket the signing fee after doubling the price.
It rather looks like an unfair contract term either way. What is the excuse for ignoring the cooling off period? I'm assuming that the one off membership would not have been paid had it been apparent that the monthly fee was the higher one?
They have said that in the T&C’s the ‘joining fee’ is non-refundable but I think it’s plainly clear that if this shoddy outfit had given out the correct contract details in the first instance they wouldn’t have been a cat in hells chance he would have signed up for £58 a month. After speaking to his bank they have said to request the full £50 from the gym and if they refuse to refund the ‘joining fee’ and only pay back the original £25 they will follow it up. At least Dick Turpin wore a mask
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:26 pm
by claretskeith
Reading back, which gym is it? £58 a month! Even Bannatynes is something like £42.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:31 pm
by Leyland Claret
claretskeith wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:26 pm
Reading back, which gym is it? £58 a month! Even Bannatynes is something like £42.
Probably best not to say at this moment…sorry
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:18 pm
by Cleveleys_claret
Sounds like a trick Gymetc would pull
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:56 am
by IanMcL
If he paid by card, he could get the credit card to charge back. Not sure about a bank, as it was an agreed transaction. The cooling off period is for all payments, as you are making the contract null and void.
Trading Standards.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 4:37 am
by Vegas Claret
Send them an invoice for the 25 quid and also state that the terms for non payment beyond the 14 days will incur a 25 quid per day interest charge and an admin fee of 58 quid
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:52 am
by Hipper
You should go back to the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
Presumably the e-mail has the T&C's. Is it easy to look for the relevant clause that says the joining fee is non refundable. As Rowls says this seems completely unreasonable and Consumer Law - law generally - is usually reasonable.
You can get money back from a debit card transaction too.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/recla ... hargeback/
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:14 am
by Leyland Claret
Hipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:52 am
You should go back to the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
Presumably the e-mail has the T&C's. Is it easy to look for the relevant clause that says the joining fee is non refundable. As Rowls says this seems completely unreasonable and Consumer Law - law generally - is usually reasonable.
You can get money back from a debit card transaction too.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/recla ... hargeback/
The T&C’s do say that the ‘joining fee’ is non refundable but as is pretty obvious he wouldn’t have joined in the 1st place if he had been given the correct information. He is also still well within the 14 day cooling off period. I have told him to get back on to the CAB and inform them of their actions. He has also spoke to his bank and they have advised to speak to them to get the full £50 refunded. If they refuse they said they will follow it up. One way or another my lad will get the full money back from this company. It has definitely made my blood boil!!
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:45 am
by Clovius Boofus
taio wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:09 pm
I'd send them a letter or formal email giving them say 14 days notice to reimburse and tell them that in the event they don't you will pursue the matter through small claims court. I would also be saying that if the don't refund in that time period you will be publicising the injustice via multiple social media platforms to warn as many people as possible.
They won't take any notice of someone paying £35 over a £25 matter, and it's not worth mentioning because they'll call your bluff. Best to go with what you said regarding naming and shaming.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:34 am
by ClaretPete001
If the contract says it is non refundable even during the cooling off period because the cooling off period only pertains to the ongoing membership then I guess it's non-refundable.
I guess the issue is who broke the contract and I would say that it is them who have done that and therefore the non-refundable clause is not defensible. I haven't used it for years but the small claims court might be worth a try if you want a day in court and don't mind potentially losing a couple of hundred quid and some time.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:36 am
by ClaretPete001
Clovius Boofus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:45 am
They won't take any notice of someone paying £35 over a £25 matter, and it's not worth mentioning because they'll call your bluff. Best to go with what you said regarding naming and shaming.
I think you can claim expenses, which can mount up to a few hundred quid or if you threaten them with a solicitor potentially several hundred quid per hour to listen to someone tell you what you already know..!
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:46 am
by Ightenhill_Claret
Did he sign up for a contract of a set duration (ie. 12 months) or a month by month contract?
And did the contract he sign state that the membership was £25 per month?
I’m not an expert but I think that if he did sign up for a 12 month contract at £25 per month they’d have to honour that price for the duration of the contract.
The joining fee for any of these places is an absolute swizz in my eyes - what exactly are you getting for that?
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:52 am
by Clovius Boofus
They do sound like a dodgy outfit though, and I bet this is not the first time they've done something like this. Best to look at online reviews before committing to lengthy contracts.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:55 am
by ŽižkovClaret
Id do a section 75 claim with bank for the joining fee on the basis of the service not being as described, verging into the realm of false pretences.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:05 am
by Jakubclaret
Some gyms can be notoriously difficult to extract yourself from even cancelling direct debit they’ll hound you with debt collection companies if you end up committing yourself & later change your mind. You need a doctor’s letter & a good reason to finally free yourself.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:05 pm
by Big Vinny K
If you want to cancel a direct debit and don’t trust the company to do it just do it through your bank. It’s easy. As long as you are not breaking any kind of contract terms then you should not have an issue.
As for the original OP i sympathise with you. It’s disgraceful behaviour by the gym.
My understanding of the law is that the non refundable deposit clause in the contract is only valid if the rest of the terms of the original contract remained the same. Given that they very clearly did not then this invalidates the original contract and therefore invalidates the non refundable clause and they have a duty to refund this.
If you put down a deposit on buying a car or a house or anything else it is should usually be based on an agreed price at the time of making that deposit. If the price subsequently increased you would fully expect to get your deposit refunded as the contract has clearly changed and you are no longer under any obligation to purchase at the higher price.
If a contract included a clause which says that x company is allowed to change the price that would normally be at some kind of renewal period - usually annually. A contract that said they could change the price before using the service or receiving the goods would not I believe be a valid contract irrespective of whether you have signed it or not. You can’t just put anything you want in a contract and just because someone signs it does not validate the contract. The law does not work in that way.
In terms of advice I think there is some good stuff already posted on here. Firstly send a email or letter to their head office (try ringing it first if you can get a number). Raise the complaint formally. If all this fail then consider going through the smalls claim process if you think it’s worth it. If you have paid for the deposit on a debit or credit card go back to the card issuer or your bank and raise a dispute (you have more chance if you used a credit card)
I’d also take the advice of calling them out on social media.
Good luck.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:14 pm
by Greenmile
Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:05 pm
If you want to cancel a direct debit and don’t trust the company to do it just do it through your bank. It’s easy. As long as you are not breaking any kind of contract terms then you should not have an issue….
As a general rule, you should always cancel Direct Debits at both ends (your bank and the payee). If you just cancel it at your end with the bank, the payee can sometimes reinstate it via AUDDIS and start to claim it again. If this happens, you will have a lot less bother claiming payments back if you can show you also cancelled with the payee.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:46 pm
by Big Vinny K
Greenmile wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:14 pm
As a general rule, you should always cancel Direct Debits at both ends (your bank and the payee). If you just cancel it at your end with the bank, the payee can sometimes reinstate it via AUDDIS and start to claim it again. If this happens, you will have a lot less bother claiming payments back if you can show you also cancelled with the payee.
[/quote
I agree you should cancel it at both ends if you can but in this day and age many companies deliberately make it difficult for you to contact them (or impossible) and are also notoriously clever in making it difficult for you to cancel direct debits online.
Gyms are particularly good at this. There were some crazy figures I once read about how much of a gym businesses revenue comes from members who never go and don’t cancel their direct debits.
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:32 pm
by Leyland Claret
*UPDATE*
Thank you all for your invaluable advice. I even got a reply from Martin Lewis about it!! The Gym has just called my son and was apologetic for the ‘confusion’
They have said that he will be getting a full refund of £50 back into his bank within 5 days. Hopefully they pay up and they don’t drag their feet on the refund. Like I said I won’t name the company but TF it’s all over
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:18 am
by Tw@
It’s funny that a legal question has been asked and our legal expert is nowhere to be seen
Re: Consumer Law
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:26 am
by fidelcastro
Tw@ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:18 am
It’s funny that a legal question has been asked and our legal expert is nowhere to be seen
To busy using the swimming pool at his villa in Spain.
